Translation of the original japanese game project aka How to wind up flunkies

[Eerie]

The problem here - and I take only FFVII, not other games or medias - is that is there a real need of a complete retranslation when only a few parts need them? Wouldn't it be enough to have the sloppy parts retranslated?

The OP's desire is born from a good intention - but in France we have a very good saying for this: "l'Enfer est pavé de bonnes intentions" which translates to Hell is paved with good intentions. In short, obviously there are some things that need some tweaking but what the OP shown, so far, don't need it. And from what I read, the changes he wants to make are even more confusing/gross mistranslations from the Japanese where... it was fine to begin with!

To be frank, I am a translation whore - nothing compares in my eyes to a really good translation, I'm totally NOT a fan of 'take the translation which you prefer, all translations are valid' crap. In this case, FFVII has mostly a good translation in English - I won't go into the French names things, I might throw things out of the windows But if someone wants to change a perfectly fine and valid word because he happens to not know it then... nope, this won't do. Especially when the alternatives don't come close to the VALID meaning that word holds.

BTW, I'm French and I don't see the big deal with "flunky"?

 

[Channy]

But if someone wants to change a perfectly fine and valid word because he happens to not know it then... nope, this won't do. Especially when the alternatives don't come close to the VALID meaning that word holds.

BTW, I'm French and I don't see the big deal with "flunky"?

Could not have said it better myself. But it seems that it won't stop there, and that he's taking other valid phrases and trying to translate them for literal "correct" meaning.

Pray tell, did you see anything wrong/misinterpreted the scene in the Sleeping Forest when Aerith said "Then why don't you REALLY worry about it?"

 

[I Am Not Me]

I come back from a snack and people are ganging up on me! ...I think.

I think you put too much stock in something being 'official'.

Yes. Yes, I am. Because in the end, it's still where it all came from. The official game, whether Japanese, English, French, or whatever.

Wrong. In the case of Chrono Trigger, a lot of fans saw where that got them. A half missing plot.

No. I don't think you got what I meant. I never said the official translation is the most reliable; just a notch higher than something not official. If the makers themselves put forth another (better) translation for this, then we rely on them moar, AMIRITE? Translation is therefore a notch higher when it comes to this. The main point of that retranslation is to translate whatever wasn't there in the original translation, right? We can rely on that retranslation for the missing plot points; everything else can be from the original translation.

But that's not the case for FFVII. Which is, let me stress, what we're talking about.

Edit: Oh yeah, and the way the characters are portrayed (post-localization) in the original may be botched in the fan translation (as we see Barret in this one), so much OOCness = +unreliable points.

In any case, I have no idea of SNES Chrono Trigger as I've never played it, so really, I lose thar because IDK what you're talking about. It could be translation or they might have cut some stuff, IDK. Whatever you say.

Alright. Let's take all of our Ultimania translations down.

AMAGAD. DO IT!!!!!11

As an example of 'official' not necessarily being reliable, in SW, it was 'official' for quite some time that the Executor was a 'Super Star Destroyer' Class starship, and was 5 miles long.
It is very clearly 11 by the on screen visuals.

Official does have a weight to it, but it's not impossible to cock up.

I think I need a translation for you, Ryu. D; I don't know what that is.

Especially since most 'official' translations of the era, while done by 'professionals', were often done on the cheap and the quick by third parties.

Really? O_O I didn't know that...

Or by Ted Woosley, who sometimes took things a bit too far.

Who?

BTW, the hosted translations don't infringe on IP rights, since there is no Official English version, and we're not cutting S-E's profits by doing this. Not that they can't sue, but it'd be frivolous.

It's their fault for not making an English version anyway. Someone should write to them and demand English versions!


PS: Why are talking about this here anyway? Where's the thread starter? DDDx

Edit:
I missed those posts after Ryu...

 

[Tetsujin]

Pray tell, did you see anything wrong/misinterpreted the scene in the Sleeping Forest when Aerith said "Then why don't you REALLY worry about it?"

Tbh, I think the line sounds kinda awkward.

 

[ForceStealer]

There is also a difference between official translations 10-15+ years ago and official translations today. They are leaps and bounds better than was they once were. I Am Not Me's sentiments may be wrong historically (Chrono Trigger, early FFs, etc.), but they are far more accurate now.

No official's not perfect, but you have admit its come a long way.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Especially since most 'official' translations of the era, while done by 'professionals', were often done on the cheap and the quick by third parties.

Yep. Ted Woosley is a prime offender of being wonky on the translations.

 

[I Am Not Me]

There is also a difference between official translations 10-15+ years ago and official translations today. They are leaps and bounds better than was they once were. I Am Not Me's sentiments may be wrong historically (Chrono Trigger, early FFs, etc.), but they are far more accurate now.

No official's not perfect, but you have admit its come a long way.

Well, I have no idea of any of the old official translations, so sorry about that.

Yep. Ted Woosley is a prime offender of being wonky on the translations.

So who is Ted Woosley? Is this n00b question too n00bish to answer?


Edit: Never mind, I found him. Though I still don't know what the problem with him is... D;

 

[ForceStealer]

He was Square's translator for a time. The only FF he translated though is FF6. Obviously not a perfect translation, but a lot of people actually liked a lot of what he did with it (Tina -> Terra, "son of a submariner," etc.) He also did Chrono Trigger.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Though I still don't know what the problem with him is...

He had a little problem of taking too many things into his own hands, to the point where it sometimes wasn't even what the original meanings were.

 

[Strangelove]

Frankly, I think this is all a waste of time and people should focus on retranslating Vagrant Story! I mean, what a load of shit that was.

On the subject of names, I'm not sure how she got Claude. クロード is how you usually write Claude, not クラウド.

That's NOT. A. DUPLICATE. It's just to make him look powerful. His image gets doubled and is slightly behind his true movements, it's not splitting off and doing something. And as Channy says, Cloud does the SAME thing moments later.

I think you could call the little Cloud who appears after the temple disappears, or the multiple Clouds in the Lifestream 分身.

It just sounds like she's mistranslating a lot of names, Claude, Shiera, Midgard (tentative though) Setra.. and that's just from looking at these pages, I haven't seen a lot of the videos.

'Shiera' isn't really really a mistranslation as much as just a straight transliteration, same with Setra (setora). Midgar seems to have gained a 'd', though.

I can be hard to figure what the creators were going one they've twisted a foreign word into a Japanese one, if you don't know what the original word was meant to be. Nothing in Cait Sith's Japanese would tell you it's meant to be spelt with a 'th', since the Japanese name is just 'see'. Apparently some manga officially translated it as 'Ketto-C', which is a pretty long way off.

The problem here - and I take only FFVII, not other games or medias - is that is there a real need of a complete retranslation when only a few parts need them? Wouldn't it be enough to have the sloppy parts retranslated?

I think touching up the original would be better and a lot less work and throwing the whole lot out and starting from scratch just because there are some mistakes in there.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Yes he does. he does it right bfore this scene. he talks to you whilst also injuring
tseng. he also shows double of himself in the animations all the way through this scene.
There are quite clearly TWO sephiroths that fly off.

I may not be remembering the scene correctly so maybe you can provide me with a YouTube vid
if you have one, but if I recall, the image of him injuring Tseng is a flashback.
You're talking about when we see Tseng invite Elena to dinner, right? That obviously
happened before the crew got there, because Tseng was already sitting outside the temple
when they arrived, wounded.

As for Sephiroth blinking and appearing in doubles and whatnot, I thought that was just a
visual effect. Why would he/Jenova double himself/herself just to have both copies do the
exact same thing? It's not like one couldn't have overpowered Tseng alone.

Her translation is by far better than the original overall. I know, because I have
gone through it all. Every bit.

Yes but if you don't know Japanese and don't have the original Japanese to compare it to
anyway—and neither do I, on both counts—then you can't actually tell if her
translation is better. You can only judge how much better it sounds in English, not
its accuracy.

I guess you'd just put Yuffie and Vincent into the final scene
regardless of whether the player actually got them?

I would, but that's neither here nor there. Fuck the people who didn't get
Vincent and Yuffie.

Back at qhimms it is common knowledge that the translation is poor and NEVER, on 5 forums, have I come across anyone arguing in favour of the flunkies line. It is obviously wrong.

You use this "I have 5 forums agreeing with me" bit a few times to support your argument that you and Cathy are absolutely right and we are all incorrect and subjective fangirls/fanboys. Would you mind supporting your argument by linking us to these 5 other forums—specifically to where the residents of these forums have agreed on the point you're trying to make here? And if you could further prove that it isn't the same people on 5 different forums, that would be great too, but I wouldn't expect it.

Otherwise we have no choice but to assume you're exaggerating for the purpose of beefing up your argument. =)

1. Flunky is not a well known word in britain or ANYWHERE that I know of. maybe america....but that is all. Since this is an english game it should use a word that is well known. Flunky is NOT.

As long as we're splitting hairs, it's not an English game; it's a NA game. NA as in North America. What's on North America? The US, Canada, and Mexico. England/Britain is in Europe.

1. A person of slavish or unquestioning obedience; a lackey.
2. One who does menial or trivial work; a drudge.
3. A liveried manservant.
None of these suggest a black robed person.

Did you expect to find "4. a black robed person" in the dictionary definition of "flunky"?? All of those definitions do suggest the black robed people in FF7.

While we're tossing out credentials here, monkey, I am ALSO a university graduate, have known of the word flunky since before I was ten, and have not met a single person who understood english who didn't understand what a flunky was.

I'm a community college drop out and have known the word "flunky" for as long as I can recall.

And what the hell does any of this have to do with Italy? You keep bringing up Italian.

oh and final word on this, flunky is a poor choice of word.

That's not your final word. That's the same thing you've been trying to assert all along. Saying it's the "final word" won't make it any more correct; it just says that you're stubborn and refuse to open yourself to anyone else's logic on the matter.

But that doesnt matter, since I am translating this game, I will do as I see fit

QED. And do you speak Japanese? No, you do not, which I know because you're relying on other Japanese translators. So again, I ask, how can you assert with the certainty of a ten megaton nuke that what you think it says in a language you don't actually understand is correct? You're relying on other people. You can't argue that what they're telling you is correct unless you learn it yourself. You can only argue what you know.

It just sounds like she's mistranslating a lot of names, Claude, Shiera, Midgard (tentative though) Setra.. and that's just from looking at these pages, I haven't seen a lot of the videos.

They're not really mistranslations. Just poor choices.

Cloud's name is Japanese is Kuraudo, the syllables ku-ra-u-do. When you say it fast it sounds like "Cloud," but the Japanese write foreign words in what, to us, is a limited selection of syllables. They don't do consonants next to each other, because their alphabet consists of sounds and not letters. There is no "k," just "ka," "ke," "ki," "ko," and "ku," and they use the one ending in u to mush with the next sound when they're trying to imitate our "two consonants together" thing because they don't pronounce the u as strongly. And O ends up at the end of words, because the only consonant they ever end syllables in is N. Thus kuraudo sounds more like kraud. But when we say Claude, even though it's the letters AU, we say clawd. We say Cloud like clowd. And the Japanese pronounce that U like ooo. So it's koo-ra-oo-do. ah-ooo. not ah-awww.

And seriously, after I read your posts I see this blind spot where text used to be when my eyes look away. D: Can't you change that font?


Out of time to read the rest of this thread. Work time.

 

[Strangelove]

In light of this topic, I had a go updating the script for first couple of scenes in the Temple of the Ancients.

I just tried to focus on anything that looked misleading or if there was something missing, rather than trying to rewrite it, so didn't just change anything I might have phrased differently. Maybe it was just a good scene, but I didn't think there was really much that was really wrong here. I think there's only really one part that really gave the wrong impression.

Spoiler

Scene 80
- Temple Of The Ancients - Tseng's
Meeting -

Aerith
"This is... the Temple of the Ancients..."
"I... I know... I feel it... the consciousnesses of the Ancients...
lingering..."
"They could become one with the Planet, but they've remained here through strength of will."
"For the future? For us?"

Cloud
"What are they saying? Do you understand?"

Aerith
"You're uneasy... But happy?"
Aerith
"Because I'm here? I'm sorry... I don't understand."
Aerith
"Hurry, I want to go inside!"


"Black........ Materia....."

Aerith
"Look......"

Tifa
"Number 9. Another man with a tattoo."

Aerith
"Hey! It's Tseng!"

Cloud
"Tseng? Of the Turks?"

Tseng
"Uh... he got me."

Tseng
"It's not the Promised Land... Sephiroth's searching for..."

Cloud
"Sephiroth? He's inside!?"

Tseng
"See... for yourself..."

Tseng
"Damn..."
"Letting Aerith go was the start... of my... bad luck..."
"The President... was wrong..."

Aerith
"You're wrong."
"The Promised Land isn't like what you imagined."
Aerith
"And, I'm would never help you."
"Either way, there was no way Shinra could have won."

Tseng
"Haha...pretty harsh. Sounds like something... you'd say."

Tseng
"The Keystone... Place it... on... the altar..."


Cloud
"You crying?"

Aerith
"...Tseng's with the Turks, he's our enemy, but I've known him since
we was little..."
"There's not a lot of people I can say that about. In fact, there
are probably only a handful of people in the world who really know me."


Cloud
"Let's put the Keystone in."


Aerith
"Words... feelings... So many of them here."

Tifa
"What a strange place. Do you think we're welcome here?"

Aerith
"...Cloud! I know it's going to be tough, but..."
"Don't give up! We can do it!"


"Nyum... nyum..."

Aerith
"Phew! We finally caught up to you."
"I'm sorry. You were waiting for me."
"Those are the spirit bodies of the Ancients."
"They've protected this temple for a long time, without returning to the planet."
"Over the many years, they've lost the ability to talk."
"No, they didn't need words from the beginning. Because there was only one objective for those left in the temple."

(The original say 'they've been away their planet', which makes it sound like they're talking about a different planet.)

Aerith
"Please, talk to me!"
Aerith
"No good. I don't understand the rest. Are you afraid...?"
"Is it because Sephiroth is in the Temple? Or something else?"

Aerith
"Phew--- We did it!"

Cloud
"Everyone all right? That sure took a lot out of us."

Aerith
"Oh no... Cloud! Come quick!"

Aerith
"Hurry, this way!"

Aerith
"It's full of the knowledge of the Ancients."
"No... not knowledge... consciousness... living souls..."

Aerith
"It's trying to say something."

Aerith
"I'm sorry, I don't understand."

Aerith
"What?"
"What is it?"

Aerith
"...Danger? An evil... consciousness?"
"...show? You're going to show me?"

Cloud
"...What's going on?"

Aerith
"Wait! Look! It's showing us!"

Elena
"Tseng, what's this? Can we find the Promised Land with this?"

Tseng
"...I wonder. Anyway, we have to report to the President."

Elena
"Be careful, Tseng."

Tseng
"Yeah..."
"Hey Elena, how 'bout dinner after this job's over?"

Elena
"Th... Thank you very much."
"If I may be excused..."

Tseng
"Is this the Promised Land? No, it can't be..."

Tseng
"Sephiroth!!"

Sephiroth
"So you opened the door. Well done."

Tseng
"This place... what is it?"

Sephiroth
"A lost treasure house of knowledge. The wisdom of the
Ancients... their knowledge"

Sephiroth
"I am becoming one with the Planet."

Tseng
"One with the Planet?"

Sephiroth
"You stupid fools. You have never even thought about it."
"All the spirit energy of this Planet. All its wisdom...
knowledge..."
"I will meld with it all. I will become one with it... It will
become one with me."

Tseng
"...you can do that?"

Sephiroth
"The way....... lies here."

Sephiroth
"Only death awaits you all. But do not fear."

Sephiroth
"For it is through death that a new spirit energy is born. Soon,
you will live again as a part of me."

Aerith
"Did you see it?"

Tifa
"...I saw it."

Cloud
"...Where is the room with the pictures on the walls?"

Aerith
"Almost there..."

Cloud
"Sephiroth is here, right?"
"No matter what he thinks, it's going to end here."
"I'm taking him out!"

Tifa
"We're here too, you know."

To me, that seems like a much more managable way of doing it than a complete retranslation of it. If the whole script is the same level as this, then just fixing parts is all it really need, rather than translating it all over again.

 

[Channy]

Aerith
"...Tseng's with the Turks, he's our enemy, but I've known him since
we was little..."

were?

And seriously, after I read your posts I see this blind spot where text used to be when my eyes look away. D: Can't you change that font?

And no. If you think that's bad, go read my RP it's one giant blinding wall of text.

 

[Strangelove]

were?

Was?

I thought 'was' was the correct one, but now I'm not sure and will have to research

 

[Channy]

Were is the correct term to use when following a plural pronoun.

Was can be used, but only if Aerith was a little black girl who grew up on the streets all gangsta like.

 

[Strangelove]

That's why it sounded wrong then, because I had made it "since I was young" in my head

Looking at it more, it says she has known him "since [?] time of child" (excuse literalness ). It doesn't say who was a child, but I assumed Tseng was at least a teenager when Aerith was a child.

 

[Channy]

Since I was young sounds better, cause although Tseng looks young, he couldn't have been 10 and working with the Turks to stalk Aerith.

Man that is some shit literalness xD That's what we have to look forward to, if they continue retranslating it to be literal. I would assume it's when since Aerith was a child tho.

 

[Ryushikaze]

"And, I'm would never help you."
"Either way, there was no way Shinra could have won."

I am would never help you?

Drop an apostrophe and an M there, Hitobito.

 

[DLPB]

I am would never help you?

Drop an apostrophe and an M there, Hitobito.

Cathy states "I wouldn't have heped you anyway or would never have helped you, so shinra would have failed regardless of their decisions"

as for "i have known tseng since we were little"< we were

That is a plot hole when mistranslated, since tseng was an adult when aerith was a child.

The correct translation is "I have known tseng since I was a child" < I WAS

I havent got the script with me at mo so that may be slightly out.... it is AERITH who was the child not her AND tseng which is what the english translation implies.

The temple of the ancients is one of the worst parts for translation and as for the part about flunkies...

This has now been confirmed on qhimms as "copy" not double. It is a direct reference to the black cloaked people. So flunkies is 100% wrong,. Not opinion. FACT. My translation will take into account the fact it is referring to those. The japanese version of the game does not use the word "clone" it uses "copy" and refers to genetic material of the black cloaks, not "clone" which erroneously portrays something as a perfect copy,

Furthermore, I will be in discussions ith japanese people about barret wallace. It turns out the Mr T stereo type was added by the translation team. Barret wallace will need a new and accurate personality.

 

[Channy]

Cathy states "I wouldn't have heped you anyway or would never have helped you, so shinra would have failed regardless of their decisions"

as for "i have known tseng since we were little"< we were

That is a plot hole when mistranslated, since tseng was an adult when aerith was a child.

The correct translation is "I have known tseng since I was a child" < I WAS

I havent got the script with me at mo so that may be slightly out.... it is AERITH who was the child not her AND tseng which is what the english translation implies.

lol, we know.

This has now been confirmed on qhimms as "copy" not double. It is a direct reference to the black cloaked people. So flunkies is 100% wrong,. Not opinion. FACT. My translation will take into account the fact it is referring to those. The japanese version of the game does not use the word "clone" it uses "copy" and refers to genetic material of the black cloaks, not "clone" which erroneously portrays something as a perfect copy,

Oh qhimms, how misleading they mayeth be. Flunkies still works considering it refers to a group of people who are following Sephiroth around. They aren't copies or doubles because originally they are ordinary people infused with Jenova. What are Jenova infused people called? Clones.

Furthermore, I will be in discussions ith japanese people about barret wallace. It turns out the Mr T stereo type was added by the translation team. Barret wallace will need a new and accurate personality.

Thank fuck for that. If you continue to literarize all of Barrets lines such as "there ain't no getting offa this train we're on" --> "You cannot jump off of a moving train" or whatever stiff line you had earlier, then it'll just fail.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The Sephiroth Copies ARE Flunkies, no matter how you slice it, DLPB.

If you feel it needs to be more precise that it's his black cloaked flunkies, feel free, but flunkies remains an accurate way to refer to the copies.

Also, Barret isn't Mr. T, but he is a giant boisterous black man in either version.

Cathy states "I wouldn't have heped you anyway or would never have helped you, so shinra would have failed regardless of their decisions"

Hi. That's entirely missing the point. The point was, there was a minor grammatical flubb in what Hitobito posted, and I was pointing it out. The meaning was not at all lost, and the extant translation certain flows much better than Cathy's awkward line.

as for "i have known tseng since we were little"< we were

That is a plot hole when mistranslated, since tseng was an adult when aerith was a child.

The correct translation is "I have known tseng since I was a child" < I WAS

I havent got the script with me at mo so that may be slightly out.... it is AERITH who was the child not her AND tseng which is what the english translation implies.

We KNOW, DLPB. Hitobito here has the JP game and IIRC script on hand.

BTW, these other five forums who'd never heard of Flunky, Si Vous Plait.

 

[DLPB]

Let me slice this one at you. I have now spoke to 4 japanese speaking people, 2 at qhimms. All 3, apart from the one here are in agreement that flunkies is incorrect

Thats right, in agreement. So that means 3-1 OVER RULED.

Since I am asking a number of people and then making a decision based as a group, flunkies is history. Not because I say so, but because the majority says so and I have the final word on it. And WE say bye bye to it. It is wrong.

I wont indulge ignorance. I will be back here when I need help with the translation. If anyone wants to lend their hand to the project then they are free to do so. If they dont then the translation will go based on those who have had input.

Dont be so arrogant as to assume you know more than the other 3 japanese I have spoke to. That isnt good for this project and how we are to progress in making this game better, rather than argue about a rather daft word.

 

[Max Payne]

Kinda the pot calling the kettle there ain't it guys?

 

[Ryushikaze]

There are two over here, doofus, and please, cite your sources, you ninny.

 

[Eerie]

I also wish to know why I should lower my expectations from a game just because a few guys don't know ONE word. It's not like FF7 is the grandest literature. Should Martin rewrite his serie because it's too hard to read? :o

I don't think so, thank you.