Translation of the original japanese game project aka How to wind up flunkies

[Cat Rage Room]

No, retranslations can indeed work. There are tons of retranslations that are downright humbling and almost blow away the original. FF7 is in dire need of a retranslation. However, like I said before, fans have to be careful.

 

[Channy]

It just seems to me that a retranslation isn't something that fans should do. It should be something done straight from the translators/original script workers in the first place. Because fans don't always know what was meant to be and what isn't. There are translational errors (this guy are sick) and then there's character personality slang (there ain't no getting offa this train we're on).

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I see what you mean, but I don't like that attitude because it leaves the impression that fans are stuck with bullshit nonsense until the creators say otherwise, and that doesn't always happen. The original creators aren't gods, by far. They fuck up. There are tons of translation jobs that are completely shitty. If a group of people know what they're doing, and they do it correctly, then a retranslation is fine and dandy.

By that logic, we should dump all of the translated material on this site, and be content with gibberish as 'all of your base are belong to us', since there's NO WAY work can be improved upon.

 

[Tetsujin]

This, heavily. To me it sounds like this Cathy person is German, with her using German names.

Claude is French though.

What bidding?

Bringing him the black materia.

 

[Channy]

I see what you mean, but I don't like that attitude because it leaves the impression that fans are stuck with bullshit nonsense until the creators say otherwise, and that doesn't always happen. The original creators aren't gods, by far. They fuck up. There are tons of translation jobs that are completely shitty. If a group of people know what they're doing, and they do it correctly, then a retranslation is fine and dandy.

By that logic, we should dump all of the translated material on this site, and be content with gibberish as 'all of your base are belong to us', since there's NO WAY work can be improved upon.

I understand the frustration in it, but I was never once bothered with the translational errors. I (personally) would feel more comfortable having a retranslation from the creators than a bunch of fans.

But to me, it seems like there's a difference between taking something already in English and "translating" it and changing a lot of the meanings... and taking something in Japanese and translating it to English. =/

Claude is French though.

wat? ohsnap /douche

What about Midgard, isn't that German?

It just sounds like she's mistranslating a lot of names, Claude, Shiera, Midgard (tentative though) Setra.. and that's just from looking at these pages, I haven't seen a lot of the videos.

 

[Tetsujin]

What about Midgard, isn't that German?

No, it's Old Norse or something. Which is a Germanic language, but not German.

 

[Channy]

Potaytoe. Potahtoe.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I understand the frustration in it, but I was never once bothered with the translational errors. I (personally) would feel more comfortable having a retranslation from the creators than a bunch of fans.

So what if it never happens? Fans are supposed to sit on their asses with a shitty translation? Granted, FF7 itself wasn't that bad, but I can name some doozies. Also, there are tons of games that are completely in Japanese that never saw an English release that fans translated. Mother 3 (the sequel to Earthbound) is an incredible fan translation, and it's so close to the original feel of the game and series I think even the original creator commented on it at one point.

But to me, it seems like there's a difference between taking something already in English and "translating" it and changing a lot of the meanings... and taking something in Japanese and translating it to English. =/

Then they're bad translators.

 

[Max Payne]

You know, if you don't like a fan translation you don't have to use it.

 

[Channy]

So what if it never happens? Fans are supposed to sit on their asses with a shitty translation? Granted, FF7 itself wasn't that bad, but I can name some doozies. Also, there are tons of games that are completely in Japanese that never saw an English release that fans translated. Mother 3 (the sequel to Earthbound) is an incredible fan translation, and it's so close to the original feel of the game and series I think even the original creator commented on it at one point.

Then they're bad translators.

Then it's not a huge deal imo. Yeah, America/English speaking countries do get shafted in regards to games a lot, but restranslating something that already exists just seems... I dunno, I wanna say waste of time, but I don't wanna get yelled at.

You know, if you don't like a fan translation you don't have to use it.

I don't plan to. But reading through the thread I just saw some very silly comments and blind sided arguments that I thought to post.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

restranslating something that already exists just seems... I dunno, I wanna say waste of time, but I don't wanna get yelled at.

Even if the original translation is shitty and incomprehensible and terrible and nobody can understand it? Is it still a waste of time?

 

[Channy]

Well, no but that's not the case with VII. Except for a few instances.

 

[I Am Not Me]

This guy are sick.

One of those instances. Original translation might be shitty, but I don't think it's too incomprehensible. I mean, they have stupid, awkward lines here and there, but they're not too awful as to break the narration...most of the time.

Besides, the localized FFVII is technically the official translation, so it was meant to be seen that way. Aerith was meant to be seen confusing her verbs. What's in Japanese was meant for the Japanese audience, not us non-Japanese-reading people. Retranslating something that already exists is pretty much a waste of time, IMO. Fixing and improving the awkward, shitty dialogues however, is not. 8D

We can just wait for the FFVII remake, you know. It's just around the corner.

 

[Channy]

Retranslating something that already exists is pretty much a waste of time, IMO. Fixing and improving the awkward, shitty dialogues however, is not. 8D

We can just wait for the FFVII remake, you know. It's just around the corner.

HEAR HEAR.

 

[NoenGaruth]

Oh man, not another one of these...

I've dealt with people from Qhimm before, and they're a pretty stubborn bunch (also a number of users there have a problem with respecting intellectual property but that's a whole different story...). And I can tell from this guy that depite all the logic and reason you've bombarded him with he won't budge on what he and this 'Cathy' person think.

That aside, I've never been too keen on fan retranslations, unless you're some kind of super all-knowing demi god like Makoeyes you're more than likely to mess things up and this 'flunky' issue is a perfect example.

Potaytoe. Potahtoe.

mmmm....Potahtoe's

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Besides, the localized FFVII is technically the official translation, so it was meant to be seen that way. Aerith was meant to be seen confusing her verbs. What's in Japanese was meant for the Japanese audience, not us non-Japanese-reading people.

No offense, but that's so purist it almost makes me sick. As long as it's done right, let the information be shared and understood by everyone. It's impossible to gain greater understanding by improving upon the original work! Such blasphemy! Let's all just stop playing JRPGs then, it's only meant for the chosen holy people of Glorious Nippon!

We are not worthy to even ATTEMPT to improve on their original, flawless works! Throughout the thousands of retranslations on works such as Shakespeare, the works of Plato, and the Bible throughout the last several thousand years, but Japanese RPGs DARE not be sullied by the evils of retranslators!

We are not worthy! We are not worthy! All hail Glorious Nippon!

 

[I Am Not Me]

No offense, but that's so purist it almost makes me sick. As long as it's done right, let the information be shared and understood by everyone. It's impossible to gain greater understanding by improving upon the original work! Such blasphemy! Let's all just stop playing JRPGs then, it's only meant for the chosen holy people of Glorious Nippon!

You do realize that I was being sarcastic there on the part you quoted, right? You seem to have ignored the emoticon lodged between them.

Sorry, I found it funny that you got worked up over that.

We are not worthy to even ATTEMPT to improve on their original, flawless works! Throughout the thousands of retranslations on works such as Shakespeare, the works of Plato, and the Bible throughout the last several thousand years, but Japanese RPGs DARE not be sullied by the evils of retranslators!

We are not worthy! We are not worthy! All hail Glorious Nippon!

And you obviously didn't read what I followed with my sarcasm.

Retranslating something that already exists is pretty much a waste of time, IMO. Fixing and improving the awkward, shitty dialogues however, is not. 8D

Sensitive much?

I'm no purist. If I were a purist, I'd tell all of you to learn The Great Nippon Language and STFU about translations. I like fan translations as much as the next person, because they sometimes have more personality and quality than the originals. But full retranslations... no. But to try to improve the awful localization? Yes.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'm not saying retranslate the game if the original translation was great, or even passable. If someone wanted to retranslate say, Final Fantasy X, or Lunar, or Earthbound, I'd probably smack them retarded. But retranslating games that were translated terribly and are almost pieces of shit? Why not? What's wrong with that if the original content is unaltered but the translation might actually be closer to the original meaning while keeping the appropriate nuances?

But to try to improve the awful localization? Yes.

That's a retranslation.

 

[I Am Not Me]

That's a retranslation.

Nope. A retranslation is translating again. Thus the re-. It means the whole thing will be retranslated from the original Japanese. What I'm talking about is improving on the English version. Meaning, rewording only those that only need it, rephrasing only those that need rephrasing, and making Aeris say "This guy is sick."

The storytelling in the Japanese and the English isn't that much different. Both languages get the point of the whole thing anyway. The problem is that the English version looks like, yes, shit. But we still get the main point of FFVII, which is why a retranslation is a waste of time.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Nope. A retranslation is translating again. Thus the re-. It means the whole thing will be retranslated from the original Japanese. What I'm talking about is improving on the English version. Meaning, rewording only those that only need it, rephrasing only those that need rephrasing, and making Aeris say "This guy is sick."

The storytelling in the Japanese and the English isn't that much different. Both languages get the point of the whole thing anyway. The problem is that the English version looks like, yes, shit. But we still get the main point of FFVII, which is why a retranslation is a waste of time.

Fair, but what about games like Chrono Trigger (where thankfully it was retranslated), where entire plot points (not kidding) were either missing or horribly translated before it took both the fans and Square Enix to retranslate it to set it straight?

Why shouldn't a game like that be retranslated if fans bought the game to get only 70% of the story because of a whack translation job?

 

[I Am Not Me]

Fair, but what about games like Chrono Trigger (where thankfully it was retranslated), where entire plot points (not kidding) were either missing or horribly translated before it took both the fans and Square Enix to retranslate it to set it straight?

Why shouldn't a game like that be retranslated if fans bought the game to get only 70% of the story because of a whack translation job?

We're talking about FFVII here.

The thing about FFVII, however, is that even with after the localization, the game still says the same thing and conveys the same message. Granted, some of them sound/look/feel different, but I think this is because it had to be localized. It's supposed to cater to the Western/English-speaking audiences. Nothing purist here, by the way. We all know that the whole purpose of localization is to get non-Glorious Nippon folks to get the message without having to spell it out for them. Remember that SE likes screwing with their gamers, putting symborism and all that (Open to Interpretion?! ). There is narrative intention in the original translation, so a retranslation from a fan might be too far from official, because, well, it is. This, and we're looking from the viewpoint of a fan. We see in this thread that this certain fan retranslation got some things wrong, thus these retranslations can't be 100% reliable, regardless of how nicely it was done.

And I never said anything about NO TO RETRANSLATION ON ANYTHING ELSE. I just said that I like fan translations too. If it's the case in Chrono Trigger, then retranslating is okay. If it helps everyone else know what the heck the story is supposed to be about and if it's so awful that even intelligent people can't crack it.


I don't think Chrono Trigger had awful translation though. Are we talking about the DS version here? Or that other version I've never played before? I thought they just added a dungeon?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well, to be fair, no translation is ever 100% reliable. But if the official translation is 60% reliable and a fan retranslation can bump it to 80%, why not go for it? I want to get what I paid for, not a sub par translation because of 'official lovin'' nonsense. However FF7 isn't really in dire need of a retranslation, but still, if someone does it right, then more power to them.

And Chrono Trigger didn't have an awful translation, everything seems more or less coherent, until you realize that the original SNES version outright left out a lot of plot elements that nobody knew about until Chronocompendium.net started translating the original Japanese version. The DS version is much better, though.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Well, to be fair, no translation is ever 100% reliable. But if the official translation is 60% reliable and a fan retranslation can bump it to 80%, why not go for it? I want to get what I paid for, not a sub par translation because of 'official lovin'' nonsense. However FF7 isn't really in dire need of a retranslation, but still, if someone does it right, then more power to them.

I agree to the first sentence. But my point is that fan translations can't be more reliable than the official; simply because it's not official. Official is still a notch higher in the reliability scale because it's from the makers themselves, no matter how shitty they translated their own game. I mentioned narrative intent and localization right? I'm sure that these games were not only translated in English, but also made to be more coherent to the target audience. When I said what's for the Japanese are for the Japanese, it's the same as what's for the English-speakers is for the English-speakers.

You don't pay for fan translation, by the way. And this isn't the whole point of the thread. I don't care if every other game gets a retranslation project right now, because I'm concerned about the retranslating of FFVII, as it's what the topic is about. I still say it's a waste of time, unless they're just going to correct all the awkwardness in the current translated script available. Because the only translation problem I see is there.

I'm saying it's a waste of time retranslating, but if they want to do it, then I don't care. They can throw in all that effort and be viable for getting sued. Intellectual Property, anyone?

And Chrono Trigger didn't have an awful translation, everything seems more or less coherent, until you realize that the original SNES version outright left out a lot of plot elements that nobody knew about until Chronocompendium.net started translating the original Japanese version. The DS version is much better, though.

Well, I never knew that. I only played the DS version, which is awesome.

If that's the case, then, like I said, it's okay. But in the end, it's still a fan viewpoint of the game being translated, sharing for fans; the narrative content might have been different in the original, and some things may have been misinterpreted or interpreted differently from what was originally intended. This was remedied by an official retranslation anyway. I think the makers themselves are working on their own shitty localizations.



I'll say it again in case anyone missed it: Let's just wait for the remake. We know it's happening.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I think you put too much stock in something being 'official'.

But my point is that fan translations can't be more reliable than the official; simply because it's not official. Official is still a notch higher in the reliability scale because it's from the makers themselves, no matter how shitty they translated their own game.

Wrong. In the case of Chrono Trigger, a lot of fans saw where that got them. A half missing plot.

They can throw in all that effort and be viable for getting sued. Intellectual Property, anyone?

Alright. Let's take all of our Ultimania translations down.

 

[Ryushikaze]

As an example of 'official' not necessarily being reliable, in SW, it was 'official' for quite some time that the Executor was a 'Super Star Destroyer' Class starship, and was 5 miles long.
It is very clearly 11 by the on screen visuals.

Official does have a weight to it, but it's not impossible to cock up.

Especially since most 'official' translations of the era, while done by 'professionals', were often done on the cheap and the quick by third parties.

Or by Ted Woosley, who sometimes took things a bit too far.

BTW, the hosted translations don't infringe on IP rights, since there is no Official English version, and we're not cutting S-E's profits by doing this. Not that they can't sue, but it'd be frivolous.