Was the Compilation a mistake?

[Cat Rage Room]

Well, to be honest, Rufus' 'death' did have a fair amount of ambiguity to it. I wasn't too surprised when I heard he was alive. If anything, more people thought it was a surprise that Tseng was alive than Rufus (which is ironic, given that Tseng didn't even die in the original, it was just a bad translation).

 

[Max Payne]

During the original game I kinda thought Rufus could have survived too, then there's no mention of the fate of him or Shinra in the last mile of the game.

 

[OWA-2]

IMO Rufus' dead was pretty obvious(come on, he practically was shoted in the 'face' by a WEAPON), and it was intented to be that way.
Afterall, the end of the 2nd Disc is about ShinRa's fall, and the game presented it with the deads of the most important members of the Company, one by one. First it was Rufus, killed by a WEAPON. Second and third were Scarlet and Heidegher, killed inside the Proud Cloth. And fourth was Hojo, killed by the party after his mutation.
By presenting the story like that, I had the impression the game wanted to show us that ShinRa was really gone now, and only the planet's biggest threat(Sephiroth) remained.
I don't see why Squaresoft would make Rufus' dead look ambiguous on purpose.

But that's just me.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

IMO Rufus' dead was pretty obvious(come on, he practically was shoted in the 'face' by a WEAPON),

i dunno he was able to take a few slices of the buster sword by a superhuman, fire a shotgun one handed, and grab on to a helicopter while wounded pretty well

 

[OWA-2]

i dunno he was able to take a few slices of the buster sword

Somehow I doubt that actually happened. I attribute it to game-mechanics.

 

[Max Payne]

Rufus wasn't "shoted in the face" he saw the attack coming and ducked. Maybe his desk was reinforced or something.

People survive some retarded shit in FF7. Cloud survives falling like 15 feet through a house with no scratch, Tifa almost got sliced in half but walks around like it never happened now. There's a lot of leeway with this shit.

 

[Max Payne]

Somehow I doubt that actually happened. I attribute it to game-mechanics.

Yeah, he fought a supersoldier one on one, and didn't get tagged, not a once.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Somehow I doubt that actually happened. I attribute it to game-mechanics.

Agree with Dacon. While I can agree it wasn't as 'tit for tat' as the gameplay battle is for most players (Cloud gets a hit, Rufus gets a shot, Cloud gets a hit, Rufus gets a shot, etc), Rufus DID sustain some pretty major damage; it's even mentioned later in the game how wounded he is.

 

[OWA-2]

Yeah, he fought a supersoldier one on one, and didn't get tagged, not a once.

So you are saying that Rufus and Palmer are able to survive direct hits from super-human people, when the plot never alluded that those two were super-human, or even fighters, at all?

From all we know, Cloud could have decided to not use the Buster-Sword in that fight, for thinking he wouldn't need it(the same way Zack[in CC] is allways using the Buster in gameplay, but rarely uses it in the actual story[for the same reason Angeal didn't use it]).

 

[Max Payne]

Rufus DID survive a hit from Cloud. The plot implies it.

Cloud didn't use his sword against a guy with a damn shotgun and a familiar? I guess he blocked those bullets with his face.

 

[Max Payne]

FFS man Tifa survived a direct hit from Sephiroth at point blank range. That was before she because a superfreak too.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Rufus and Palmer are able to survive direct hits from super-human people, when the plot never alluded that those two were super-human

Hanging from a helicopter with one arm and firing a shotgun with one hand is superhuman in itself, the latter being almost completely real world impossible.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

During the original game I kinda thought Rufus could have survived too, then there's no mention of the fate of him or Shinra in the last mile of the game.

There is an NPC in Kalm that refers to him as dead. Of course, the same NPC still refers to Heidegger and Scarlet as alive on Disc 3, so take what they say with a grain of salt:

Hey, listen to me! I heard the barrier protecting Sephiroth is gone!
But with Rufus dead, the Shinra troops don't know what to do. Heidegger and Scarlet don't have what it takes to lead the troops......
I really thought something was finally going to get done, but everything's the same... not a damn thing's changed!

Plus, at the same time in the same town, there's this old dude who says this:

If something ever happened to President Rufus, that'd be the end of Shinra, Inc...... and the rest of the world, too.

 

[Max Payne]

Hm, I don't remember that. Maybe it's time to replay the game.

 

[null]

There is an NPC in Kalm that refers to him as dead. Of course, the same NPC still refers to Heidegger and Scarlet as alive on Disc 3, so take what they say with a grain of salt:

Holy shit. You really do live up to those Squall_of_Seed The Living Encyclopedia stories they used to tell on ACF.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, I remember that guy. Yeah, it's telling, but in retrospect, he's just some random ass guy in some podunk town; what does he know?

 

[DLPB]

When you see something happen in a cutscene or storyline then it happens literally, when you see cloud slicing rufus in a battle that is obviously meant as plainly gameplay and is there for the player, not the story.

In the case of rufus, he was hit in the face with a large missile like weapon and there is no way he survived it. Sure the writers can come up with some excuse or retcon it but that is what it is...a retcon.

Heidegger stated Rufus is dead, and at no point after that do you get to learn otherwise. I don't know how much more obvious they could have made his death, short of putting a disclaimer "Rufus has just died" on the screen.

Tifa was sliced and it is possible to survive a slice with a sword. Not likely, but possible. It is not possibe to survive a bomb hittong you direct on, and the game makes it clear he is dead (with the exception of some poor NPC's that have obviously missed updating by the designers, who say the same things before and after)

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Well, I'm glad they resurrected him, since he and the Turks are just about the best things in Advent Children. Though one might well say that that in itself was an argument against the Compilation....

 

[Max Payne]

When you see something happen in a cutscene or storyline then it happens literally, when you see cloud slicing rufus in a battle that is obviously meant as plainly gameplay and is there for the player, not the story.

Derp. Rufus latches onto the helicopter and floats away during battle, then we leave it, he's gone. GUESS THAT WASN'T FOR THE STORY.

Tifa was sliced and it is possible to survive a slice with a sword.

Herp, Tifa was slashed by what was arguable the strongest creature on the planet at the time. Cloud survived Being stabbed in the gut and lifted off his feet. In real life you'd die from blood loss quite quickly without immediate medical attention from pros.

It is not possibe to survive a bomb hittong you direct on, and the game makes it clear he is dead (with the exception of some poor NPC's that have obviously missed updating by the designers, who say the same things before and after)

Rufus was not "hittong" directly by a "bomb". The WEAPON's blasts struck the office, and Rufus shot down to brace for the impact. Survival IS possible(whether or not he'd be in one piece is another discussion). If his desk was reinforced enough it could have taken a good brunt of the blast. They never really elaborated in depth on the fate of Shinra, and it's not like Heidegger went and looked for his corpse versus preparing his giant death machine for battle.

They left an avenue for his survival in the game, whether they intended him to be dead or not originally. It is possible that he could have survived, the rest is history. Of all the "retcons" to cry about, this is hardly one of them.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

When you see something happen in a cutscene or storyline then it happens literally, when you see cloud slicing rufus in a battle that is obviously meant as plainly gameplay and is there for the player, not the story.

Attitudes like this are one of the reasons why JRPGs and their fans get ridiculed. You cannot divorce gameplay and storytelling from each other, because both comprise the overall narrative. There ARE liberties that must be taken for gameplay reasons, but going all the way and stating 'HERP DERP BATTLES NEVER HAPPENED IN THE CANON IT'S GAMEPLAY ONLY' is straight up retarded.

 

[DLPB]

Of course you can, otherwise we have to believe that 1 slice by Sephiroth almost ended Tifa's life (and 1 stab did end Aerith's life), yet repeated slices by Cloud and shot gun attacks by Rufus had absolutely no effect aside from a few bruises. There is definately a separation of the 2, and if one chooses not to believe that, the whole story becomes impossible to believe, even remotely.

 

[Max Payne]

oi.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Of course you can, otherwise we have to believe that 1 slice by Sephiroth almost ended Tifa's life (and 1 stab did end Aerith's life), yet repeated slices by Cloud and shot gun attacks by Rufus had absolutely no effect aside from a few bruises.

Like I said; certain liberties can be taken. Sure I'm willing to believe that for gameplay reasons (and graphic reasons, given the format and limitations of what they could represent in a battle), the boss battle between Cloud and Rufus was most likely more complex (and less lethal/maimy/painful for Rufus) than Cloud Cross Slashing Rufus 2 times and cleaving him 6 more times. That also can apply to many other battles in the game where the loser doesn't die (i.e., the Turks, Palmer, etc).

But the battle DID happen in some fashion. That is fact.

 

[DLPB]

yes of course, the battle did happen. I am certainly not disputing that, I am simply making the point that if we go literally by what happens in battle, the story is unworkable. Cut scenes / story are always more literal and direct, and that is why when you see Aerith impaled, you would not believe it if she suddenly cast cure on herself.

 

[Dashell]

Lol, Cloud looks constipated XD