What do you think about Cloud?

[Masamune]

'At the end of Final Fantasy VII, Cloud was more of a positive, upbeat character than he had been at the beginning, but I didn't think that "upbeat" image of him is what stuck in the minds of the fans. We decided to go with a more familiar image that was consistent with the fans' view of him.' ~ Nomura

So yeah, talking outta his rectum really.

 

[Octo]

Soooo, by that logic, if he was making another Harry Potter film, He'd make Harry a crappy little schoolboy again? :/

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah look how depressed he looks.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, people are kinda overstating the whole "baww Cloud's emo" shit to an obnoxious extreme. Yes. They did that. In AC. Back in 2005. What year is it now?

DC, CC, ACC's additional badassery for Cloud, Dissidia, and 012 Dissidia Duodecim have happened since that portrayal. And guess what guys? He's just fine. And he ain't crying or cutting himself. If you're only problem is just one Nomura's artwork of him which has him looking downcast (nevermind all his other artwork from the same game that has him looking like he'll shove that Buster Sword right up your fucking ass) then consider that a major fucking improvement.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Say what you will, but even at his worst Cloud was never one to cut himself. Other people/monsters are another story.

 

[Masamune]

Yeah, people are kinda overstating the whole "baww Cloud's emo" shit to an obnoxious extreme. Yes. They did that. In AC. Back in 2005. What year is it now?

Too late, my friend. The damage has already been done.

Don't become a Squenix suck-up again. I was starting to like you.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Square-Enix's done some stupid shit, doesn't mean though I'm gonna accuse them of doing something they haven't.

And what damage? If all someone knows about Cloud is a spinoff movie from 6 years ago, when he's been in 4 separate games since that portray his original personality more, then they're ignorant. Period. That quote and everything has no relevance at all seeing as how he's...not been portrayed that way since. It's like living in the past.

 

[Mariketsu]

Say what you will, but even at his worst Cloud was never one to cut himself. Other people/monsters are another story.

^ This. Agreed, so fucking much. Also agree with Mako, EG, and Force.

~ Raz

 

[Cthulhu]

Spoiler: Baww Cloud is such a girly emo kid

:manlycloud:

 

[Masamune]

Square-Enix's done some stupid shit, doesn't mean though I'm gonna accuse them of doing something they haven't.

See? They've made the character so super-serios and frickin' boring. I don't think Steve Burton's crappy-ass voice acting helps much either. Has the man never heard of inflection? Obviously he must be deaf 'cos he sure as hell can't be listening to his own performance.

And what damage? If all someone knows about Cloud is a spinoff movie from 6 years ago, when he's been in 4 separate games since that portray his original personality more, then they're ignorant. Period.

Cloud has become something of a self-parody now, thanks to Nomura and his hare-brained schemes. Why do so many fans associate the character with being "emo"? This shit didn't exist before the Compilation.

 

[Makoeyes987]

See? They've made the character so super-serios and frickin' boring. I don't think Steve Burton's crappy-ass voice acting helps much either. Has the man never heard of inflection? Obviously he must be deaf 'cos he sure as hell can't be listening to his own performance.

Cloud's always been on the serious side. What do you want, another Tidus? This scene isn't him being brooding or angsty. Given the context (him just saving the life of an amnesiac Tifa and trying to keep her from remembering him so she doesn't have reservations fighting against Chaos, and hold back) it's pretty in character. And again, what do you want? A goofball?

I'll give you that Steve Burton's performance doesn't really help though. He's hit and miss a lot of the times. This is one of those "misses"

Cloud has become something of a self-parody now, thanks to Nomura and his hare-brained schemes. Why do so many fans associate the character with being "emo"? This shit didn't exist before the Compilation.

Again. You are living in the past, more than Cloud now

Anyone who's still looking at Cloud from the lens of AC and 2005 needs to hop back into their Delorean, crank up the flux capacitor, and join the present. That's is almost like people still thinking or believing Jenova was in control, or Rufus died. I'm not denying what you're saying may have happened. It did. Back in 2005. And Cloud's been portrayed differently several times since. If people are still riding on AC's first portrayal of him, then they're just out of the loop.

Truth is, your hatred of AC has been seared into your heart, Masa. You're like Sephiroth...clinging to that hate and making it your core.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

'At the end of Final Fantasy VII, Cloud was more of a positive, upbeat character than he had been at the beginning, but I didn't think that "upbeat" image of him is what stuck in the minds of the fans. We decided to go with a more familiar image that was consistent with the fans' view of him.' ~ Nomura

To be honest, I have to agree with Nomura here. If I had to say what my impression of him is based only on the OG, I would say that Cloud is a guy with some serious mental problems going on who managed to save the world against all odds. It probably has something to do with the fact that for the majority of the game, we're not even dealing with Cloud's real personality at all. When it really comes down to it, we're dealing with a character whose personality is based on like 5 memories know actually happened.

I also think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Cloud was a more positive, upbeat character at the end of the game because of how low he goes during the course of the game. At one point, Sephiroth has Cloud thinking that he didn't even exist as a person before the labs and that he's just some failed science experiment Hojo created from scratch. It's not that difficult to be more positive or upbeat then that and still be depressed compared to other people.

My impressions of Cloud from CC, ACC and DoC are very different from the OG. In CC, he's a shy, uncertain teenager. In ACC he's a man who has found his purpose in life. In DoC he's loyal friend fighting alongside everyone else. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I get the impression that Cloud is "a positive, upbeat character" from everywhere but the OG.

 

[Masamune]

Cloud's always been on the serious side.

No.

What do you want, another Tidus?

How about giving him a personality? There's a start.

Given the context (him just saving the life of an amnesiac Tifa and trying to keep her from remembering him so she doesn't have reservations fighting against Chaos, and hold back) it's pretty in character. And again, what do you want? A goofball?

Dude, he's like that in just about every character exchange. He can't even hold a conversation anymore. It's like he's socially retarded or something.

And Kefka even calls Cloud "the brooder" in the game. So yeah, he's totally a different character from AC.

I'll give you that Steve Burton's performance doesn't really help though. He's hit and miss a lot of the times. This is one of those "misses"

I'm glad we agree on something.

Again. You are living in the past, more than Cloud now

Derp.

Anyone who's still looking at Cloud from the lens of AC and 2005 needs to hop back into their Delorean, crank up the flux capacitor, and join the present.

Why? I've already proven that Cloud of Dissidia is still a stilted angst-ball with the charisma of a damp squid.

That's is almost like people still thinking or believing Jenova was in control, or Rufus died.

No, it's really not.

Truth is, your hatred of AC has been seared into your heart, Masa. You're like Sephiroth...clinging to that hate and making it your core.

Cool story bro.

To be honest, I have to agree with Nomura...

Then I suggest you go back and play FFVII:

Cloud: This is SOME underwear… I'm supposed to wear this…? Well, if it's to save Tifa…I guess there's no way around.

Cloud: ………… Seven... Six... Not to be rude or anything, but could you go do
someone else?

Cloud: I dunno... But... Whether they are or not, we still have to do what we
can. And believe in ourselves... Someday we'll find the answer. Right, Tifa?
That's what I learned from you when I was in the Lifestream.

Cloud: Don't worry. It'll be okay. I'll make a big enough ruckus for everyone.
Besides, I'm the pilot. No more flying around casually like before. We won't
have time to feel lonely

Vincent: Why such a puzzled look? You don't want me to come?

Cloud: No, it's just that you're always so cold. I thought you didn't care what
was happening.

Cloud: All right, everyone, let's mosey.

Cloud: Hey, you're right... I DO feel a little better driving. No sweat. Just
leave everything to me.

^ Could you SERIOUSLY imagine him saying any of that post-FFVII?

 

[Octo]

Masa, you forgot this from the Da Chao cave:

Cloud Strife: Can't go through here... That flame would make crispy critters of us in an instant.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Actually, I can imagine the Cloud of the OG saying all the old lines in a perfectly serious voice like he does now. And it fits.

Except where it shouldn't, like the Honeybee inn lines. And then it is HILARIOUS.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No.



How about giving him a personality? There's a start.



Dude, he's like that in just about every character exchange. He can't even hold a conversation anymore. It's like he's socially retarded or something.

You seem to confuse calm with angst or something.

Yeah, a real aspie, isn't he? No social skills at all.

Steve Burton may not always have the best delivery or convey the lines right, but that's not Cloud. That's Steve who's the problem. Big difference.

And Kefka even calls Cloud "the brooder" in the game. So yeah, he's totally a different character from AC.

And Kefka calls Zidane an empty headed monkey and Terra his mindless doll. Clearly Kefka's judgment of characters is the superior measure of critical analysis.

Why? I've already proven that Cloud of Dissidia is still a stilted angst-ball with the charisma of a damp squid.

What a sour note...

You cannot defeat me.

Is this what you had in mind?

I won.

You're out of luck.

Do I feel sorry for you.

Are you ready for this?

I can handle this.

You can count on me.

You can leave the rest to me.

...Not you again. -Against himself.

Yeah he's a real angst ball. A void of wit, humor, and confidence.

^ Could you SERIOUSLY imagine him saying any of that post-FFVII?

Considering he still says rather amusing, and witty things post FFVII, yes. I can. You seem to be the only one here trying to fit Cloud into this angst ridden box of misery when the actual source material is doing everything to do the opposite. You seem to not want to let that go for some reason.

 

[Dashell]

...Not you again. -Against himself.

ahaha, does he really say that? XD That's so cute.

I will say one thing though, just once I'd like to hear Cloud say "Let's mosey" once again. It's just such an awesome line

 

[Kai Schulen]

Do I feel sorry for you.

Are you ready for this?

I can handle this.

You can count on me.

You can leave the rest to me.

...Not you again. -Against himself.

VS. Exdeath: If it's the Void you want, it's the Void you get.

VS. Shantotto: You're a small target...

Sephiroth: "I'll lead you to true despair."
Cloud: "I've got enough on my plate."

Tidus: "And that... is my story."
Cloud: "Get moving. Story's not over."

Come to think of it, I think Cloud's a pretty humorous guy. He's very deadpan about it though.

 

[Masamune]

You seem to confuse calm with angst or something.

Yeah, a real aspie, isn't he? No social skills at all.

Already seen that video. I don't know what your point is. Cloud makes a couple of vague lines to Kuja, who totally bosses the conversation while Cloud looks on vacantly.

Steve Burton may not always have the best delivery or convey the lines right, but that's not Cloud. That's Steve who's the problem. Big difference.

Burton's crumminess aside, the character is still stoic and aloof. Squenix have already admitted that's how they see the character.

And Kefka calls Zidane an empty headed monkey and Terra his mindless doll. Clearly Kefka's judgment of characters is the superior measure of critical analysis.

He also calls Kuja a "narcissist" in the very same line, or are you going to dispute that as well? I guess Kefka is just pulling these zingers out of thin air.

Yeah he's a real angst ball. A void of wit, humor, and confidence.

Dude, they're battle quotes. They've gotta mix them up. Even Squall has a few one-liners, does that make him Mr. Personality now?

Considering he still says rather amusing, and witty things post FFVII, yes. I can.

Yeah, Cloud's a riot...

 

[Makoeyes987]

Already seen that video. I don't know what your point is. Cloud makes a couple of vague lines to Kuja, who totally bosses the conversation while Cloud looks on vacantly.

Umm, Cloud confiding his personal feelings, and wishing Kuja well wishes in terms of getting through Dissidia doesn't count as deep, meaningful conversation? What's your definition of aloof and silent?

Burton's crumminess aside, the character is still stoic and aloof. Squenix have already admitted that's how they see the character.

No. Squall is stoic and aloof. Cloud is calm, thoughtful, and possesses a dry sense of humor. There is a difference.

He also calls Kuja a "narcissist" in the very same line, or are you going to dispute that as well? I guess Kefka is just pulling these zingers out of thin air.

So Jecht's a meathead, Cecil's a half-baked cookie, Kain's a traitor, and Gabranth's a fido. Right.

It's called comedic exaggeration. Take it at face value at your own peril.

Dude, they're battle quotes. They've gotta mix them up. Even Squall has a few one-liners, does that make him Mr. Personality now?

Oh! So it's okay for you to use Dissidia quotes that suit your position but anything else is irrelevant.

...They're still quotes that reflect the character. I guess those random, optional dialogue choices from FFVII that make Cloud lulzy are just there to "mix them up" too. Squall's always had a personality when he decides to relax and open up.

 

[Mariketsu]

On the subject of Steve Burton, I'd have to agree that his voice work for Dissidia was a little lacking. Some lines did sound a little flat, which I felt was a bit weird, being he always sounded good to me. I personally think his voice is perfect for Cloud, but that was a tad off. It's possible he was under some stress at the time and such or busy schedule, I'm not sure.

EDIT: Then again, it could be the Voice Director's fault too

~ Raz

 

[Masamune]

Umm, Cloud confiding his personal feelings, and wishing Kuja well wishes in terms of getting through Dissidia doesn't count as deep, meaningful conversation? What's your definition of aloof and silent?

You and I obviously have different ideas of 'deep and meaningful' conversation, my friend.

No. Squall is stoic and aloof. Cloud is calm, thoughtful, and possesses a dry sense of humor. There is a difference.

More euphemisms like 'calm', 'thoughtful' and 'dry' to disguise the fact he has very little personality in this game.

And why do you keep dismissing the likes of KH/KH2/AC? Why are they no longer relevant in regards to Cloud's image? Does that mean the original game is no longer relevant too, since y'know, it was released almost 15 years ago? Those games are invariably what started this flanderization of Cloud's character and they're as valid now as they were when they debuted, especially when it's still rubbing off on his portrayal in Dissidia.

Just accept that Squenix are catering to the stereotypical anime crowd who want cold/stoic/misunderstood main characters, even if that means dumping on over 40hours of character development. Unfortunately, the true Cloud isn't marketable enough in Squenix's eyes. Because the Cloud from Dissidia sure as hell isn't the same Cloud from FFVII.

So Jecht's a meathead, Cecil's a half-baked cookie, Kain's a traitor, and Gabranth's a fido. Right.

You didn't answer my question. Is Kuja a narcissist or not?

Either Kefka's insults ring true or they don't.

Jecht IS a meathead.
Gabranth hated being the Empire's 'hound'.
Cloud's a brooder (according to Nomura and his loyal fans).

And so on.

It's called comedic exaggeration. Take it at face value at your own peril.

It's called satire. Satire only works with an element of truth. But, of course, Kefka's perception of Cloud is one shared by Squenix, which is what I'm talking about with Cloud becoming his own self-parody.

Oh! So it's okay for you to use Dissidia quotes that suit your position but anything else is irrelevant.

My quotes and observations actually tally up with Cloud's image, your throwaway battle-quotes, quite frankly, don't.

...They're still quotes that reflect the character. I guess those random, optional dialogue choices from FFVII that make Cloud lulzy are just there to "mix them up" too.

I'd say they're about six of one and half a dozen of the other. How about the non-optional lulzy lines he says in the OG?

Squall's always had a personality when he decides to relax and open up.

Squall's never had a personality. Stop shitting me.

And if Squall can be antisocial whilst spouting one-liners, then the same can be said for Cloud in Dissidia. It means very little in regards to the character's overall image, which you've just agreed on.

 

[Makoeyes987]

More euphemisms like 'calm', 'thoughtful' and 'dry' to disguise the fact he has very little personality in this game.

About as much personality as anyone else in the game, to be quite honest.

And why do you keep dismissing the likes of KH/KH2/AC? Why are they no longer relevant in regards to Cloud's image? Does that mean the original game is no longer relevant too, since y'know, it was released almost 15 years ago? Those games are invariably what started this flanderization of Cloud's character and they're as valid now as they were when they debuted, especially when it's still rubbing off on his portrayal in Dissidia.

Who the fuck cares about Kingdom Hearts? All of the characters are mere shells of their former selves and anyone looking to that game for an actual portrayal of the FF characters is a moron. They've barely got anything in common with them. The only one relevant is AC and that's not the last portrayal Cloud has had by a long shot.

Just accept that Squenix are catering to the stereotypical anime crowd who want cold/stoic/misunderstood main characters, even if that means dumping on over 40hours of character development. Unfortunately, the true Cloud isn't marketable enough in Squenix's eyes. Because the Cloud from Dissidia sure as hell isn't the same Cloud from FFVII.

Yeah, accept they aren't, because all you're doing is looking at the previous depiction in AC, Nomura's one quote on it, and complaining about the dub's bad acting which hardly is a reflection of the character's true portrayal. Again, way to ignore two thirds of the Compilation and Dissidia that DOESN'T have him being cold, angsty and depressed.

You didn't answer my question. Is Kuja a narcissist or not?

He is when he had his memories removed and is made a villain again, but considering at the beginning of 012 he wasn't, umm yeah. It's not applicable. Again, you're ignoring the depth and actual truth of the portrayal and focusing more on the shallow initial depiction that's only shown briefly.

Either Kefka's insults ring true or they don't.

Jecht IS a meathead.
Gabranth hated being the Empire's 'hound'.
Cloud's a brooder (according to Nomura and his loyal fans).

And so on.

So Cecil's a halfbaked cookie and Terra's a ragdoll. Okay.

And no, Jecht's not a meathead either. He's not an idiot. Gabranth being a "fido" for Arcadia was half true.

It's called satire. Satire only works with an element of truth. But, of course, Kefka's perception of Cloud is one shared by Squenix, which is what I'm talking about with Cloud becoming his own self-parody.

It's not even satirical, that's bullshit. Again, how does Cecil being a cookie, Terra being a doll, and Garland being a fossil have any truth to it? They're clownish insults from an insane killer. Can't believe you're trying to validate the childish insults Kefka gives people.

My quotes and observations actually tally up with Cloud's image, your throwaway battle-quotes, quite frankly, don't.

No. They. Don't. Unless you're only going to focus on AC and ignore any other example that proves you wrong. Which you have. I'm sure if someone only pays attention to AC and none of the shit that shows otherwise, yeah. They'd call it his image. If you want to do that, go play on Gamefaqs and try and debate it there.

I'd say they're about six of one and half a dozen of the other. How about the non-optional lulzy lines he says in the OG?

...So they're about..equal? Six and "half a dozen" are the same amount. A dozen is 12..and half of that is six. So okay. Thanks for saying they're about equal.

Squall's never had a personality. Stop shitting me.

And if Squall can be antisocial whilst spouting one-liners, then the same can be said for Cloud in Dissidia. It means very little in regards to the character's overall image, which you've just agreed on.

I'm sure your absolute loathing of FFVIII had nothing to do with that assessment of Squall. Thank you for that balanced and objective analysis.

Squall isn't anti-social. He's not sociopathic. He's a loner. Cloud enjoys company and doesn't mind traveling with companions. Squall does not. Cloud shares his feelings and doesn't mind offering advice to characters who need it. See his interactions with Tidus, Firion and Terra. Squall does not like being bothered, see said interactions with Bartz and Zidane. Cloud is able to voice his thoughts. Squall merely keeps them to himself.

Squall is able to be brought out of his shell and reveal himself to others but it usually takes time to do it.

 

[ForceStealer]

I will say one thing though, just once I'd like to hear Cloud say "Let's mosey" once again. It's just such an awesome line

That has nothing to do with SE proper and everything to do with the localization team. He does say that line in Dissidia, "行こう", the localiztion team just didn't take the liberty the original did with the line because they completely missed the boat on the whole referencing-the-original thing.

Howabout his phone call with Vincent?
Vincent: "How about you? [Will you be all right]"
Cloud: "What do you think?"

Does that sound brooding and angsty? But really, going by Masa's "damage has been done" comment, it wouldn't matter what they did with Cloud now, he's already completely set that Cloud sucks now.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Howabout his phone call with Vincent?
Vincent: "How about you? [Will you be all right]"
Cloud: "What do you think?"

This line would have been approximately 20X more awesome with a cut-away to Cloud wasting an entire platoon of Deep Ground soldiers with one swing of his Fusion Sword. And yet its still a pretty decent indicator of Cloud's state of mind in the most recent part of the compilation.