What do you think about Cloud?

[Kobato]

@Ace~

I'm not ignoring anything about Zack and Aerith's relationship. Their tragic ending is what makes me so attracted to the couple. Well, one of the things. Aerith was naive, but she wasn't stupid.

I know, I know <:

Naive = Innocent thoughts.

<:

And men have flirted with more than one girl certainly. You do not love one person your entire life, unless you are lucky enough to find that person right away. Many people go on multiple dates and through many relationships before they find the right person. He had a gf and he called a girl pretty... COMPLIMENTS ARE FORBIDDEN.

But while they're dating a girl, like Zack was ? :/ Yes, that's true. No compliments are not forbidden xD

also I'm glad you're not mad because I'd tell you not to take things so seriously. I certainly am not. <XD

<:

Are we still friends ? I didn't mean to get angry about Zack like that. I just got angry, and I do think that it's unfair that Zack gets more support, but I guess that's how the FF7 world goes round.

@Tifabelle. Why did you call me a stupid bitch ? I'm not angry at Tiff, but I am rather hurt by that. Like, extremely. I just wanted to support Cloud, just like Tiff wanted to support Zack.

 

[Celes Chere]

Eh, we disagree and that's all it is: A disagreement. I don't hold a grudge against you for not agreeing with me. ;P

 

[Masamune]

For those people keep equating Cloud to a real human being. Word to the wise: He's not. He's a fictional character. Real human beings are arbitrary, inconsistent, fickle creatures, who often make decisions based on no rhyme or reason.

Fictional characters can't be too true to life. They have to be logical and structured. Cloud is not "in character" in AC. I'm sorry but he's almost an entirely different character. So you can't dress that up as 'realism' and tell me it's good writing. It's not.

Let's say you read a novel about someone battling with alcohol addiction. After an emotional rollercoaster, he finishes the book having overcome his addiction and looks forward to beginning a new life for himself. However, in the next book, he's back to being a wino 'cos he has some issues. That would suck ass and insult the reader who battled alongside the character to see him come out the other side a stronger person. Sure, it would be natural for him to be tempted by the bottle again, perhaps even have a moment of weakness, but for the character to become weaker than he was in the first book, that'd be a big middle-finger to the audience.

And Dacon makes a simple point that, for someone dying of disease, Cloud is still capable of rocketing into the sky, slicing buildings apart, and flooring giant dragons. Yet he's "no good to anyone"? Pur-lease. This is another reason why AC completely fails in narrative and direction.

As for the Edward Cullen reference, I was making a nod to how Cloud has turned pop culture, becoming the brooding, stoic loner, who's really just misunderstood. And has no personality.

 

[Kobato]

Eh, we disagree and that's all it is: A disagreement. I don't hold a grudge against you for not agreeing with me. ;P

/ huug

:3

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It was Tseng who told Aerith about Zack's womanising. He felt it was his 'duty' to protect her. That's why he was snorting with laughter behind his hand when Zack said, "You're the one person I can trust to look after her," before he went to Nibelheim.
Turks fight dirty.

On a more serious note, when you say people 'prefer' Zack to Cloud, what do you mean?
Prefer Zack's game to Cloud's game? I like Crisis Core but Cloud's game knocks it into a cocked hat.
Prefer to create fanworks about him? You need to look at ff.net's FFVII listing. Zack's popular, yes, but nothing like Cloud.
Prefer him in the sense that, in real life, he's the kind of person you'd choose as your life's companion? I stll have to go with Cloud.
On the other hand, if I was going out for a night on the town or organising a party, I'd prefer to do it with Zack.

Very interesting thread.

 

[Dashell]

Anime tentacle rape doesn't count.

.

...

I'm just curious, why?




oh and Aerith never knew that Zack was dead Celes

 

[Ryushikaze]

That's not what the preponderance of the evidence, CC included, would suggest, Quex. She can sense the spirit of a guy she never met dying a world away coming to visit her adopted mom, but not the spirit of her first love dying just down the road? Yes, there's the one old quote, but CC's reaction shot is rather pointless if it turns out she was completely and utterly clueless.

 

[Tifabelle]

Prefer him in the sense that, in real life, he's the kind of person you'd choose as your life's companion? I stll have to go with Cloud.

idk, man, I could go with either on that.

 

[Dashell]

That's not what the preponderance of the evidence, CC included, would suggest, Quex. She can sense the spirit of a guy she never met dying a world away coming to visit her adopted mom, but not the spirit of her first love dying just down the road? Yes, there's the one old quote, but CC's reaction shot is rather pointless if it turns out she was completely and utterly clueless.

The simple fact is, we don't KNOW what Aerith felt at the end of Crisis Core. It may have been she felt Zack died, or it may have been she just felt something bad happened. The reason she was able to sense Elmyra's husband's death, was because he came close to try to see Elmyra. Aerith's words in this case are, "Someone dear to you has just died. His spirit was coming to see you, but he already returned to the planet."

Also the 20th Anniversary Ultimania Character files says that Aerith didn't know Zack was dead.

At the time this story begins, Zack is already dead, but Aerith does not know this truth. - 20th Anniversary Ultimania page 197

Which came after CC though.

 

[Shademp]

Without repeating too much of what has already been said, I think Cloud is an interesting piece of gaming history. He represents the standard spiky-hair big-sword j-rpg hero and his legacy will continue to live on in the collective gaming consciousness for a long time to come.

I like how there is something gritty about hos original costume that reflects the grittiness of the world around him (especially Midgar) and how the asymmetrical clothing matches his divided personality.

I enjoy seeing his limit breaks, both in the original game and in ACC. For some reason those have always been a selling point for me.

When I think about Cloud however I mostly don't think about his personality. I think about the weird stuff he goes through, how he started out and how he has ended up. Pinpointing his personality is difficult because of the phases he goes through in the original game versus how different he feels in ACC. If I were to watch Advent Children in graphics like that of the original game, I doubt I would recognize that Cloud as the same in OG.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The simple fact is, we don't KNOW what Aerith felt at the end of Crisis Core. It may have been she felt Zack died, or it may have been she just felt something bad happened. The reason she was able to sense Elmyra's husband's death, was because he came close to try to see Elmyra. Aerith's words in this case are, "Someone dear to you has just died. His spirit was coming to see you, but he already returned to the planet."

Zack died trying to reach Aerith, his last thoughts were of her. So, yes, she should have been able to sense his death, and she sensed SOMETHING at the end of CC, right as Zack died.

Also the 20th Anniversary Ultimania Character files says that Aerith didn't know Zack was dead.

At the time this story begins, Zack is already dead, but Aerith does not know this truth. - 20th Anniversary Ultimania page 197

Which came after CC though.

Two words- denial hypothesis. Cloud doesn't know he never got into SOLDIER because he convinced himself otherwise. Aerith, in a much less drastic version, could have done the same.

 

[wayfarer]

I think Cloud was a compelling, fun, and admirable protagonist whose reputation has been tarnished by crude, thoughtless characterization in one sloppily handled sequel, I won't name names

 

[Celes Chere]

oh and Aerith never knew that Zack was dead Celes

girl you best be trollin' me.


Also if Aerith didn't know Zack was dead, then I'm sorry, but she's a complete dumbass. And I don't think that she is at all. Everyone around her knew about it. I have to wonder if Tseng ever said anything about it, too. He was the one holding all of Aerith's letters for Zack, he's also the one that knew that Zack never came back, and the three of them interacted quite a bit. CC shows that news spreads FAST around the slums. About Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, AND Zack. Kunsel also visited Aerith, you don't think he said anything?

End off CC she senses Zack's life being taken away. Unless someone falsely told her Zack magically disappeared or ran away from home for NO REASON, she'd have to be some kind of idiot not to know.

 

[Super Mario]

I think he's a pussy.


Until the main game that is, and manned up at long last. A crying shame that they always seem to portray him as a pussy in other games or an emo-angst filled hero such as Kingdom hearts.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Here's what I think about Cloud:

Cloud's determination is amazing. He's survived some of the worst circumstances in fiction and still hasn't given up. He is stubborn to a fault and is determined not to let anyone die on his watch. While he still is depressed at times (who wouldn't be given the circumstances), he never stays in that state for long but instead rises to the occasion and gives it his all. Cloud is one of my favorite characters in all of fiction.

 

[Mariketsu]

^ I want to thank this post over 9000 times.

Srsly.

~ Raz

 

[Masamune]

Spoiler: Cloud Then

Spoiler: Cloud Now

That is all.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

If you'd suffered what he has at the hands of Square Enix, you'd be depressed too.

But seriously, there's no arguing with those pictures.

 

[Shademp]

If you'd suffered what he has at the hands of Square Enix, you'd be depressed too.

But seriously, there's no arguing with those pictures.

Indeed.

......DAMMIT. I can't unsee Cloud's boner in the Dissidia image. =/

 

[Octo]

Indeed.

......DAMMIT. I can't unsee Cloud's boner in the Dissidia image. =/

Me neither .......I guess this means that he can't be totally depressed after all

 

[Marle]

Indeed.

......DAMMIT. I can't unsee Cloud's boner in the Dissidia image. =/

Not his fault they made Tifa's boobs jiggle in that game. What's the poor guy to do?

*iz not trollin*

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Spoiler: Cloud Then

Spoiler: Cloud Now

That is all.

I've always thought that the "Cloud Then" should really be "Cloud When He Thought He Was SOLDIER" and the "Cloud Now" should really be "Cloud When Sephiroth Mind-Screwing Him".

 

[Dashell]

First off because I didn't comment on it earlier:

but not the spirit of her first love dying just down the road?

Correct me if I'm wrong but Aerith was in Midgar in the Church and Zack was in the badlands? Correct?... that's not right down the road at all.

And onto the others:

Zack died trying to reach Aerith, his last thoughts were of her. So, yes, she should have been able to sense his death, and she sensed SOMETHING at the end of CC, right as Zack died.

Okay I just rewatched it again to see if I felt any differently... okay maybe it's just me, and it probably is, but I'm totally not getting a "lost the love of her life" vibe from her reaction. She honestly, to me anyway, looks like she's accepting some bad news, but not awful news like "lost the love of her life." But here's the thing... Zack isn't dead yet. Wouldn't he have to die before she could sense his death?

I have a theory on it... but I dont' want to get into it now. And you'll probably just go:

if I tell you

Also if Aerith didn't know Zack was dead, then I'm sorry, but she's a complete dumbass.

If she DID know he was dead then she's a complete fucking bitch for NOT telling his parents and then saying, "I feel for them."

Everyone around her knew about it. I have to wonder if Tseng ever said anything about it, too. He was the one holding all of Aerith's letters for Zack, he's also the one that knew that Zack never came back, and the three of them interacted quite a bit. CC shows that news spreads FAST around the slums. About Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, AND Zack. Kunsel also visited Aerith, you don't think he said anything?

Okay can you explain this to me? I thought Zack died at the end of Crisis Core and that was the ending... but you're saying there was a scene in the game where it showed the news spreading in the slums or something? I honestly don't know here and I'm sorry, but can you please tell me what happened?

End off CC she senses Zack's life being taken away. Unless someone falsely told her Zack magically disappeared or ran away from home for NO REASON, she'd have to be some kind of idiot not to know.

I'm just curious, do you and Ryu know what the 10th AU says about that shot of Aerith in the Crisis Core playback section?

 

[Celes Chere]

If she DID know he was dead then she's a complete fucking bitch for NOT telling his parents and then saying, "I feel for them."

How would she have a way to reach his parents?

Okay can you explain this to me? I thought Zack died at the end of Crisis Core and that was the ending... but you're saying there was a scene in the game where it showed the news spreading in the slums or something? I honestly don't know here and I'm sorry, but can you please tell me what happened?

No, I mean news about soldiers (especialy first class) and Shinra spreads quickly. Plus, the four years that have gone by people had to have said something. I am just saying it's unlikey that she doesn't know with the way word travels around the slums AND with Tseng being there... though we don't know what he told her in regards to this matter at all. For sure though, I think Kunsel would have told Aerith. They've talked before and met up before. I'd like to think he came to her about it eventually.

I'm just curious, do you and Ryu know what the 10th AU says about that shot of Aerith in the Crisis Core playback section?

no got better things to read

 

[Dashell]

How would she have a way to reach his parents?

when she met them in Gongaga I mean. Or are we really going with her convincing herself that he was alive that she really honestly and truly believed he was alive?

No, I mean news about soldiers (especialy first class) and Shinra spreads quickly. Plus, the four years that have gone by people had to have said something. I am just saying it's unlikey that she doesn't know with the way word travels around the slums AND with Tseng being there... though we don't know what he told her in regards to this matter at all. For sure though, I think Kunsel would have told Aerith. They've talked before and met up before. I'd like to think he came to her about it eventually.

Wait are we talking about Zack disappearing or his death? There was only 3 months between his death and FFVII starting...

no got better things to read

Well I actually thought it was cute, but fine, no Zerith for you