Why did Hojo never tell Sephiroth he was his father?

[Roger]

Do we know why was she not allowed to see the subject of the experiments her team was doing?

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah. Well like I said Shinra's scientists aren't very good ones. They're creative, but that's about it. Also booksmarts do not equal common sense.

@Minato, not officially. I assume Hojo thought motherliness would get in the way.

 

[jazzflower92]

Do we know why was she not allowed to see the subject of the experiments her team was doing?

Hojo is a sociopath who thought that Lucrecia's motherly concern would get in the way of Sephiroth's growth.In other words he would have suspected that Lucrecia would actually try to get Sephiroth out of the program if she got too involved in it.Lucrecia might be clueless sometimes but she does have some morals holding her back from being evil.

 

[AvecAloes]

And for someone who is supposed to be a scientist she makes really dumb decisions based on selfish ambition and often short sighted thinking.

So did Hojo. They weren't good scientists, really.

EDIT: Didn't refresh the window, looks like Force ninja'd me

 

[jazzflower92]

So did Hojo. They weren't good scientists, really.

EDIT: Didn't refresh the window, looks like Force ninja'd me

In fact many of the scientists in Shinra are just bad at the common sense department.

I notice a pattern with Lucrecia that all her mistakes have had someone else pay the price for it.I mean look at Vincent and what happened when he was just trying to look out for her well being.And you can say the world once you realized she consented to having her son become the evolved form of an parastic alien.Lets not forget his little experiment cost Grimoire his life.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well at the time they didn't know it was a parasitic alien, but still, yes. I've said it's interesting how Hojo both caused all the world's problems AND created the solutions. He created Sephiroth, but also gave Cloud the strength he would need to beat him.

In DC, he's threatening the world with Omega, but he created a suitable host for Chaos, the only thing that could stop him

 

[jazzflower92]

Well at the time they didn't know it was a parasitic alien, but still, yes. I've said it's interesting how Hojo both caused all the world's problems AND created the solutions. He created Sephiroth, but also gave Cloud the strength he would need to beat him.

In DC, he's threatening the world with Omega, but he created a suitable host for Chaos, the only thing that could stop him

And Hojo still didn't care that Jenova wasn't an ancient and still thought nothing of infecting his son with the cells of a parastic alien that almost destroyed the world.Man,where is child services in this world unless its run by Shinra then in that case those kids are just as worse off.

I still wonder if they should have had Sephiroth near the end of the game kill his own father and give a grand big the "reason you suck" speech.I mean that would have made me smile because it would have been a karmic death that his own creation finally kills him.

 

[ForceStealer]

Sephiroth already hated the guy anyway and told us as much.

Although the best verbal gut punch of Hojo comes from, of course, Rufus,

It's that kind of dullness that makes you a second-rate scientist

&$%* yeah, Rufus

 

[Roger]

Hojo is a sociopath who thought that Lucrecia's motherly concern would get in the way of Sephiroth's growth.In other words he would have suspected that Lucrecia would actually try to get Sephiroth out of the program if she got too involved in it.Lucrecia might be clueless sometimes but she does have some morals holding her back from being evil.

You'd think that being a sociopath he'd not have much consideration for stuff like that, totally saw the point at which Lucretia's morals would get the better of her coming just in time, huh? Good job Hojo.

 

[jazzflower92]

Sephiroth already hated the guy anyway and told us as much.

Although the best verbal gut punch of Hojo comes from, of course, Rufus,



&$%* yeah, Rufus

I have a feeling thats why he was happy to let his son destroy the world because he hates that the world didn't appreciate his greatness.I might be just reading into things but I think Hojo is shown to be an egomaniac who would do such a thing.

Oh,but I still would be itching for Sephiroth to lay a good beating on Hojo.I mean he has had it coming for a long time.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well Cloud, Vincent, and Nanaki did that.

And Hojo didn't want Sephiroth to win to take revenge on the world, he wanted him to win to see what would happen. For science. Hojo is more than sufficiently convinced of his own genius to need any recognition.

 

[jazzflower92]

Well Cloud, Vincent, and Nanaki did that.

And Hojo didn't want Sephiroth to win to take revenge on the world, he wanted him to win to see what would happen. For science. Hojo is more than enough convinced of his own genius to need any recognition.

Yeah,destroying the world is just a minor detail in Hojo's mind.I also wonder if Hojo ever cosidered that Sephiroth might have found out the truth about his parentage.I mean Sephiroth did absorb the knowledge of the ancients.Then again Sephiroth probably thought that when he destroyed the world that Hojo would die as well.

 

[AvecAloes]

I don't think Hojo cared if Sephiroth ever found out. Hojo didn't think of Sephiroth as a person, just an experiment, as iterated before, so why would he care?

 

[jazzflower92]

I don't think Hojo cared if Sephiroth ever found out. Hojo didn't think of Sephiroth as a person, just an experiment, as iterated before, so why would he care?

You have a point there.Then again he treats everyone like potential experiments.He is a sociopath that can't figure to see people other than that.I can proudly say that Hojo is just the worst parent in Final Fantasy history.Then again I find it horrifying that any parent who see their child as just an experiment to do as they please with no ethics or moral restraint.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Didn't we determine or see in an Ultimania or something that her falling down in the Nibelheim Inn was her going into labor? I seem to remember us having that discussion fairly recently. Tres?

That's correct. More than one Ultimania points this out, actually.

And, yeah, it's really unclear when Vincent's flashbacks occur anyway. Time jumps around a lot. All we know is that Hojo shot him 23 years before FFVII.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

It's that kind of dullness that makes you a second-rate scientist

Rufus with the classy burn ftw

 

[jazzflower92]

That's correct. More than one Ultimania points this out, actually.

And, yeah, it's really unclear when Vincent's flashbacks occur anyway. Time jumps around a lot. All we know is that Hojo shot him 23 years before FFVII.

I am still skeptical about it being 23 years because in the game I remember him saying he slept for 30 years or so.Sorry,but I don't buy the 23 years thing because it really contradicts a lot of things.

I think this is where you got the 23 years from because it also says that Lucrecia was drugged and forced into the project.Which means they must have changed it from being 23 years in the final game.You might disagree but if Sephiroth was only twenty three in the game then he would have been two years older than Cloud.Also remember that Sephiroth was born around the time of Angeal and Genesis who were twenty five in Crisis Core.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...3-of-the-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega/3/

To back it up the translated character Ultimanas list Vincent's age as 27 and list the the approximate date not as 23 years but 25-30 years.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/931/vincent-valentine-character-profile-p68-71/

 

[Roger]

I am still skeptical about it being 23 years because in the game I remember him saying he slept for 30 years or so.Sorry,but I don't buy the 23 years thing because it really contradicts a lot of things.

I think this is where you got the 23 years from because it also says that Lucrecia was drugged and forced into the project.Which means they must have changed it from being 23 years in the final game.You might disagree but if Sephiroth was only twenty three in the game then he would have been two years older than Cloud.Also remember that Sephiroth was born around the time of Angeal and Genesis who were twenty five in Crisis Core.

http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...3-of-the-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega/3/

We went over it in this thread.

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10006

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

His Ultimania Omega profile (not the Early Material File; his normal one) says approximately 23 years. His 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile says he was born approximately 50 years before FFVII -- subtract 27 from that (his age at the time of death) and you approximately 23 again.

I know at least one other book uses this number as well. I need to check the new 25th Memorial Ultimania when I get home. I think it was that one.

Vincent didn't confront Hojo over Sephiroth's birth. I know the flashback in the original game leaves that impression, but even the Ultimania Omega said otherwise. Though the detail was later altered, his profile at the time said he confronted Hojo over Lucrecia's self-imposed exile (a result of her body becoming monstrous, it said).

While DoC clearly changed the fact of why Vincent confronted Hojo (Lucrecia is still there in that game's telling of events), it didn't change when it happened.

Sephiroth was at least two years old when Vincent was shot.

 

[jazzflower92]

His Ultimania Omega profile (not the Early Material File; his normal one) says approximately 23 years. His 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile says he was born approximately 50 years before FFVII -- subtract 27 from that (his age at the time of death) and you approximately 23 again.

I know at least one other book uses this number as well. I need to check the new 25th Memorial Ultimania when I get home. I think it was that one.

Vincent didn't confront Hojo over Sephiroth's birth. I know the flashback in the original game leaves that impression, but even the Ultimania Omega said otherwise. Though the detail was later altered, his profile at the time said he confronted Hojo over Lucrecia's self-imposed exile (a result of her body becoming monstrous, it said).

While DoC clearly changed the fact of why Vincent confronted Hojo (Lucrecia is still there in that game's telling of events), it didn't change when it happened.

Sephiroth was at least two years old when Vincent was shot.

I'm getting the impression that even the Ultimanias are beginning to contradict themselves and are getting more confusing on the timelines.Not to mentions the retcons that have happened in the Compliation as well.

Back to Original Discussion:It makes me wonder why the Ultimanias never put any detail into Sephiroth's childhood.I have a feeling that even though Hojo didn't care enough to act as a parent he does imply he was very much a prominent figure in his son's childhood.I think Hojo in my mind would have been very emotionally distant from his son and often would have high expectations for him.

 

[ForceStealer]

I don't see what contradictions you're talking about. If everything says 23 years...what's the contradiction?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Back to Original Discussion:It makes me wonder why the Ultimanias never put any detail into Sephiroth's childhood.

Because it isn't overly important to his story arc? Because it would dry up what mystique Sephiroth has left in him to show him as a grubby little brat demanding sweets because he's oh so speshul? Possibly because his childhood kinda sucked in some way and we don't need any more fuel for the tragic fallen hero who tried to kill the whole planet (twice!) fire? Plenty of reason to not touch Sephy's childhood.

I have a feeling that even though Hojo didn't care enough to act as a parent he does imply he was very much a prominent figure in his son's childhood.I think Hojo in my mind would have been very emotionally distant from his son and often would have high expectations for him.

You are assuming Hojo had any real expectations. At best he'd have a hypothesis, and whether it was there or not his "expectations" would boil down to "let's see what he does/what happens next!"

 

[jazzflower92]

I don't see what contradictions you're talking about. If everything says 23 years...what's the contradiction?

Dirge Of Cerebrus and the fact that the development team don't even seem to care or read what is in the Ultimanias.It seems like those working on the Compliation don't seem to really care about consistency and just retcon stuff whenever they feel like it.

 

[AvecAloes]

In my opinion, there is nothing about the original game that draws you to humanize Sephiroth. He is always described (and shown in flashbacks with Cloud) to be aloof and devoid of feeling. I don't think it was really until Crisis Core that you saw any humanity in his character at all, and even then he was never really, I don't know, normal. So giving details about his childhood seems kind of pointless, and would to me kind of undermine the ultimate portrayal of his character.

 

[ForceStealer]

While they may not care about consistency, I don't see how that aaplies in this case. Vincent confronted Hojo and was shot after Sephiroth was born. DC changed that Lucrecia was present, yes. But him having slept for 23 years has not been contradicted. Vincent is 50 years old, his appearence was frozen at 27. 50-27 is 23. The developers are correct.