SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
.. I really don't understand where this concept of cloud having a "crush" on aerith is coming from. Ig if that's the case, he got a crush on jessie too. Like have you seen how his gaze lingers on her photograph? She's dead I know but she had that much impression on her despite them not hanging out much.. or it could just be that, that's how he cherishes all his friends including aerith. I never saw him develop a crush. What we do see is him showing the exact opposite of it even before the resolution scene and the part where he remembers Zack.

Some forget he doesn't recall her face back at the church. And we have the worst dress reaction and a simple polite reaction for the mid dress (the one she actually liked).

If anything, best dress tells you (much clearly in JP) that as long as she's not her usual self, in her usual style, what she likes, then that will create a positive impression. She even says it doesn't seem like her, and he asks if she's even "aerith". I don't know if that's really "positive". That indicates that her usual style, what makes her "her" doesn't have a positive impression. But even so, all dresses from worst to best all ends in one reaction. Indifference. And he asks about what their next plan is. This was never brought back in the game. And quite fascinatingly, they decided to give as a camera view where we see his direct eye contact (unlike best dress, makes you think where exactly was he looking at? Aerith, the people? Fireworks?) which turns out to be Tifa's bust. Also, best dress had all those fireworks, but he couldn't even look at aerith in her gsd like he did with Tifa.

I'm not trying to be mean to aerith. But I really don't think he had a crush on her. Tifa is canonically called beautiful in FF7 world (not just by Cloud), but Zack doesn't compliment her lol. It seems that both Zack and Cloud have Very Different personal preference/type in terms of looks and personality. Cloud Definitely Never saw her "sexually" lol, if so, Yuffie would have caught on that immediately. She hasn't even known Cloud that long enough but she's picking up on the Tifa bit. And she even speaks about Tifa in her gsd. Nobody notices his pov about aerith. Except marlene saying aerith likes him. Which speaks nothing about cloud (and we've seen him Friendzone her so theres that).

Resolution also had a line of "even if" Not "even though". Meaning she's not even sure but she'll warn anyway. If resolution is what happens after dream date. It's actually weird that she still said that after getting Friendzoned tho. He couldn't even gift her a gift that shows affection (the brooch, reunion flower given to girlfriend). Which leads me to believe.. she has trouble reading and understanding him. So I'd take her assesments somewhat like an unreliable narrator.

She even asserts he took a sneak photo in that photograph side quest. But if you let her catch you, she actually poses and theres no animation where cloud hides himself. So him saying "nothing sneaky about that is fr". She might just been teasing but some people took that as romantic which is weird. .. that's what we do in school field trips with my friends.

Anyway, I don't get where this is coming from. I didn't list it all, but he surely has shown wanting to have boundaries and apparent Disinterest. He even calls himself not romantic (even though he is). And him telling her to stop calling it a date. Other stuff like not being comfortable with the couple gondola ride idea etc. This was before the whole Zack thing too, so I hope nobody says it's about bro code (I don't think that ever even entered his mind). If anything, remembering Zack made him kinder to aerith if you ask me. Also, that they're both saddened by the news of Zack.

Anyway, if this was in the story, it should have been written the same way they wrote aerith's dilemma. They Clearly Didn't. I don't think one line from a another person who has difficulty understanding what she even feels is credible to speak about what others feel. She didn't even let him speak in her resolution. It's much more in your face in chinese "you're talking to yourself" which she is. Her message is about her Only whether she's aware of that or not.

Unless of course we take that he could have had a crush on jessie or even madam m since he did have a "sus" reaction from those two if you'd argue enough about it.

Sorry for the long text. But hobbit's take saying you have all these choices but it all ends the same do remind me of the three dresses. Or perhaps even the nptk reaction. No matter how you interpret those, it all ends with him thinking of her Only as a Friend and Never more nor "yet"(btw, he also has the same open mouth reaction to Nanaki's dancing, what I mean is, it's him simply appreciating his Friends performances that's all as he does cherish all.. Cloud is a nice guy you know).
I keep thinking of how Cloud’s real self says he cherishes everything and I think it may have been Nomura ( fact check me on this one pls ) that mentioned that the emotion they’re aiming for with Aerith is how you wish you had treated someone better after they’re taken from you.

While I don’t think Cloud had a crush on either Jessie or Aerith, I think his feelings posthumously are similar “I wish I had cherished them more while they were here”. Which is a very human thing.

Jessie is a great little callout because he doesn’t soften towards the three Avalanche members until the segment about Jessie’s dad. Seeing that she had something very personal invested in all this struck a soft spot with him.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Treated her better how because to me he was nice and caring for the most part.
There are times where he's just really grouchy w/ her tbh and I think the dev's are trying to convey a "I should've enjoyed those times w/o complaining or being difficult" type of feeling.

There are a couple moments in Rebirth where I wanna smack him upside the head for how he treats Aerith and I chose all the nice dialogue options lmao

For example, every time she pats the space beside her for him to sit next to her he rejects her offer and sits somewhere else--he even does this in her GS date and it drives me insane, personally.

Overall, Cloud is very sweet and caring with Aerith as he is with all his friends but just like with all his friends, he can be a stick in the mud and a massive buzzkill when she's just trying to have fun w/ him.

Edited for clarity*
 
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Eerie

Fire and Blood
Nomura’s words perhaps refer better to the OG where he’s straight up an arse? 🧐

Or maybe in his mind the best answers he gives out to Aerith (and others’) aren’t the ones more in character for Cloud?
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
Treated her better how because to me he was nice and caring for the most part.
Not that he mistreated her. It’s the whole “if I had known my friend was going to die today, I would’ve told them how much I care about them yesterday.” Type deal. That feeling that you could’ve done more to care even if you did enough.

Cloud’s a softy at the end of the day, part of why aloof is part of his persona. He feels the need to mask it, but it’s one of his better qualities
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
The only time he doesn't do it is on the water tower in Nibelheim and I think that's because he's avoiding sitting in the same spot he sat w/ Tifa seven years ago.
Nah he sits there because it’s his spot where he can look at Tifa’s bedroom without being spotted. It’s exactly what you see him doing in chapter 1, except he thinks he is a SOLDIER there but if you look at the scene, he doesn’t take off his sword XD because he did that as a grunt.
 

Biscuit

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Bikit
I think it was kitase who said that? From what I recall.

Tbh, I found this statement to be more true if all LA versions is what happened. You can see the stark differences between how he treats yuffie, aerith, etc in LA vs HA. In LA he's more cold and nonchalant (it's not on purpose tho, I mean he's not being mean on purpose). In HA he was more proactive and tries his best to actually be there for them as a Great Friend. It's fascinating that there's two very different versions. I don't think I'd ignore LA just because. Plus it kinda fits the vibe in OG.

Unless of course, we can take this statement as wholesome. He is kind and cherished all his friends (as we've seen him do his best in HA) but he wishes he was even more capable of showing that and treating them better than how he did.

While cloud may look cold and such. I think deep down he really wants to develop better social skills, which he does eventually. His idol is literally Zack which he takes some references from. I feel like if he was ever a friend to someone, he'd want to be the type of friend Zack was to him. Anyway, he does say in LS that he wished he could have talked and played with the nibelheim kids but he just didn't do it, probably didn't know how and was too proud to make mistakes or something.

His new found Friends right now is like that second chance for him. From Avalanche to his new Nakamas.
 
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Rin

Pro Adventurer
Nah he sits there because it’s his spot where he can look at Tifa’s bedroom without being spotted. It’s exactly what you see him doing in chapter 1, except he thinks he is a SOLDIER there but if you look at the scene, he doesn’t take off his sword XD because he did that as a grunt.
Oh, true, I forgot about that!
Actually, it's released in 2009 inside OTWTAS book. The one that was officially released in 2005 as web novel, for AC, is Case of Denzel and Case of Tifa.
Also, thank you for the correction! <3
 
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Rin

Pro Adventurer
If resolution is what happens after dream date. It's actually weird that she still said that after getting Friendzoned tho. He couldn't even gift her a gift that shows affection (the brooch, reunion flower given to girlfriend). Which leads me to believe.. she has trouble reading and understanding him. So I'd take her assesments somewhat like an unreliable narrator.
You know, I never considered that the dream date could happen before the resolution scene but it would make sense as it's supposed to be an Aerith who is closest to death, right?
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I’ve interpreted Cloud and Aerith in a similar Harry and Hermione relationship, because I loved the dance scene in the movie. They are friends, the best kind of friends, but there can always be an air that something is there. You could view the dance scene as romantic, but I didn’t, it was bittersweet. I really felt there was a similarity.

This is how that dance scene is described:

"The way that Dan and I played it was there was the possibility there could be something else between Hermione and Harry," Emma Watson tells. “If you spend that period of time with one person alone on the road and you don't know when you're going to see anyone else again, I dunno, I feel like maybe there could have been something there, but not really from Hermione's end. I think whether or not you like that story line or not, the scene has a tension but it's open to interpretation. It's not fixed."
 
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nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
The only time he doesn't do it is on the water tower in Nibelheim and I think that's because he's avoiding sitting in the same spot he sat w/ Tifa seven years ago.
Is this when they return to Nibelheim? Is it a difference in the affection system? Because he sits in his usual spot across Tifa’s window for me.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Is this when they return to Nibelheim? Is it a difference in the affection system? Because he sits in his usual spot across Tifa’s window for me.
No, not an affection thing. He sits next to her in his usual spot, I just totally forgot that's his usual spot haha
 

Biscuit

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Bikit
.. tbh I really find aerith and cloud's dynamic much closer to Yuki and Thoru's (Fruits Basket). Yuki (aerith) did had a crush on thoru but realized it's misguided. Thoru (cloud) is flustered with his advances but she Never saw anything beyond that, neither did she care to know what's up (but it did felt like thoru found him acting strange). She thought of him Only as a friend and was happy when yuki told her she's as vast as the sky. She appreciates his sentiments but that's it.

Some saw there could be more between yuki and thoru but personally I never saw it, much like I Never saw there was anything "possible/more" between aerith and cloud (I think they made this Very Clear tbh). The game even jabs at the notion some have if zack or tifa didn't exist. We have that in dream date (they don't exist there), turns out it's still Not a thing lol (you even get some npcs saying "no spark" etc). Well it's kinda literal i know, but devs made it into this other world scenario when they could have easily shown this event in real world but didn't.

Anyway, some will think otherwise because they ship. I personally just Don't see that regardless of my preferences (especially considering all the stuff I've mentioned in another post that Did happen in the game and some more I didn't mention that spoke Against their notion. We even got 2k hero orz Doubling Down on Tifa and Cloud). I still remember being 8 watching AC without any clue who is who, and actually thought she was some sister or as he said, mother. When I saw Zack at the end, I thought "oh is that his mentor? We didn't saw him, are these people his teachers/parents who died at some point because of him or something?". What I mean is, I Never saw anything of what some "saw" and this was just me being as true neutral as possible with the way they delivered the stuff that happened in AC (not even ACC, which was clearer). My sentiments are still the same now tho. Only that they are not his parents nor sibling lol.
 
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Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
They also love to bring up that Cloud was mesmerized seeing Aerith in her red dress and didn't feel anything when he saw Tifa.
This is a weird comparison to me, couse there was less urgency at the moment when Aerith walked up to Cloud with her dress, not to mention the scene in general being made out to be a spectacle or less so depending on which outfit you get. Also he's not really mesmerized with the other outfits either if they wanna go there.

With Tifa on the other hand, when Cloud initially spots Tifa in the Chocobo carriage, there is no real time for any kind of focus for dress reactions when it's all about him being worried in the moment, and the same is true when they later wake up in Corneos dungeon where they need to figure out how to get out. Though you can stand in front of both ladies there and make the girls showoff their dresses to you if you wish.

Anyway my point is that the dress reveal context is very different for both girls so it's just kinda pointless to compare them to be honest. If we had a similar Tifa walk up to Cloud under red carpets scene out there somewhere too then sure, but Tifas dress wasn't made out to be a big reveal in the first place.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I don't recommend them, even the silly giggly phase I usually get early on is scary.
Wife had a concussion scare back in college and I don't want to experience that or worry the wife, so, yeah.

I might have, once upon a time. But time means nothing, never will again.
Let's do the LTD agaiiiiin...

Then give it a raise :awesome:
- Lifts it up -

Think watching Pauling drool over Tifa will clue Scout in on why waiting patiently isn't working for him? ... Nah me either.
Can anything, honestly? Scout's dumbassery is almost legendary.

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA
Oh, Manah. such wasted potential of a character in 2. This is contrasted to most of the rest who had no potential to begin with.

Ouch. Gonna need a Burn Heal for that one.
Knowing his luck it will heal him through the burning.

Unlikely as it is, I know I've strained things to "everything tastes like blood" levels before so :awesome: We'll have to see.
Well, just don't do that, then.

Yeah, dude deserved a real vacation.
Maybe send him on a single's cruise.

Beware of CAltists pouring gasoline while viewing the wholesome and beautiful alternate future.
Some people just want to watch the world burn because their girl wasn't endgame, Master Bruce.

I Have seen those dark places. The Devil Himself (me) shudders at the thought.
They in effect stunt actual discourse and growth of though.

Simpsons did it?
The simpsons episode on the love triangle debate was odd. Homer wielded the Buster sword so naturally, though.

Well now you made it adorable.
I was aiming for a little bit sad and pathetic, honestly.

Picturing a sentry nest built into the gondola now. I love it.
Not into one of the cars, though, the spokes. because the angle is JUUUUUUUUST right.

Hojo: What did you do to my specimen?! You told me you were filling a cavity...

Medic: I was! The one I made in his abdomen.
Medic :I filled it with this other experiment, and look, they are getting along like family!

Hojo: They're trying to bite each other's heads off.

Medic: Ah, you are an only child, then?

I mean, he did until they exploded :monster:
It might even not have been his fault.

Scout has a brother? Wait nah his dad is Tom Jones, silly me.
Scout has 7 brothers, IIRC. It is unknown if they share the same paternal parentage.

An engineering firm, mind you. Pyro and Engie have been roomies for years after all.
They talk about solving problems.

I could see Cid saying most of Engie's lines, so can't argue that.
I can also imagine Engy and Barret comparing their gimmick arms.

New product, mako infused marijuana. We call it 1st Class, want a hit? -- Aerith in this darker timeline
One hit and you'll start seeing someone else's life.

It's good to have a goal in your early twenties, and hey it's even an achievable, realistic goal. It gets him through.
It's also a goal that keeps going. He can keep getting her attention, even.

On the other hand, M. Bison and Kano are both there seemingly if their own accord. Maybe a self-aware Sephiroth has hope yet... but yeah Golbez in particular would be the one trying to get him to his first meeting.
"Sephiroth, you can't keep obsessing on your nemesis. It's not healthy."
"You're one to talk. You're always thinking about your nemesis."
"I... -sigh- He's not my nemesis, he's my brother, and I am trying to atone for the things I did when I was being manipulated."
and so on and so forth.

We don't have time for obvious rational solutions.
Guess it's time to go bully Cthulhu into driving people mad again.

None at all. No resemblance between Mom of War and Dad of Boy. That's silly.
Apart from the repeatedly punching gods in the face. But that's just sort of a staple of the genre.

Now I want you to read this in MasakoX's Goku voice specifically: Yeah, i know. That's what subconsciously means.
I meant he's not thinking about making a new technique, period. He's pulling it out of his ass in the moment. He will then later need to figure out how the hell he did it.

As the Devil and Dark-type Gym Leader alike, I counteroffer Sucker Punching the aggressor before the first hit lands.
The Buddha nature used Bide.

And she had just used Fury Brand. She needed a minute.
Now I'm imagining the crew on the highwind using Rebirth mechanic shennanigans to generate limit for her. Yuffie just Brumal Forming in an ATB ward on the Sierra and checking her fitbit to get enough charge to send for Great Gospel

Aerith too needs a hug.
The main cast as a whole could use a lot of hugs.

Let's be honest that is an amazing dress. I do not know women's fashion and I can tell you that much. It's undeniably a sexy dress what with...

That :monster: It's wonderfully tailored to flatter her, and has all the elements needed to take it from a nice fuck-me dress to an elegant piece. Aerith wouldn't look out of place at a Hollywood awards ceremony in that dress.
Now I want to see fanart of Aerith and Tifa in the dresses presenting at an award show.

Pretty much.



As in that's the entire debate.



Hence us admitting Aerith has a place in this race at all.



Hence Aerith rapidly flagging and falling behind in said race.
It doesn't help her that she really wants to be racing on a different track, to stretch the metaphor further.

People don't connect this strongly with characters who don't feel alive, real, with agency. It's a rather important enabler to willing suspension of disbelief. So no, they have none of that and will do whatever the writers say, however they say, whenever they say. But if it feels like that's what is happening... Well I for one probably wouldn't even finish that story, let alone sign up to chat about it 27 years later.
Yeah, it's just people take it too far sometimes, and treat them like they're actually real. Snape and Sephiroth wives and whatnot.

so in the years since Advent Children, we have all caught on that Denzel basically = Cloud and Marlene basically = Aerith and their dynamic sums up their relationship… right? Not siblings, but they are siblings? Just me?

??? Marlene is described as a mini-Tifa lol.

I also don’t think the relationship Denzel and Marlene have is anything like CT’s lol.
Marlene acts like Tifa with a lot of Aerith's look. She's like a reverse form of the the combined character from early development.

So many Chadley haters! Jeebus haha. Well, if my theory about him turns out to be right, everyone will get their payback with him. I think in game 3, he'll be revealed as a bad guy, or his research will be used to create a bad guy similar to Almighty Shinra

Pretty sure he's an ongoing Hojo experiment trying to break free using the chadley cyborg/ bot/ thing to move about in the world.

I mean, not really in the end. Every manifestation/depiction of Sephiroth is ultimately from the same "source." It's the real Sephiroth's mind and goals.

The only difference is medium. Sephiroth in Chapter 18 was more forward and open with his plan but its still the same goal and mind. It's what Toriyama was talking about in the Ultimania Plus where all the Sephiroth's share the same mind/goal, hence the hallucination Sephiroth in Chapter 3 is saying things that reference and allude to what Sephiroth in Chapter 18 said.

The real Sephiroth, the true physical body of Sephiroth, is somewhere out there. What we saw in Rebirth's final chapter shows that he resurrected himself and then left north. We don't know where his body was before that but ultimately he's out and about now.
We'll have to see how it turns out in Pt3, but the impression I got was that Rift-iroth was acting on plans that "Regular" roth was not aware of. My suspicion is that Rift-iroth is Sephiroth post-defeat, and he wants his "present" self to act normally while he works on a secondary scheme. It's definitely still Sephiroth, just not the same one at the same time.

I also don't know if CH14 showed that Sephiroth is out of his crystal yet. He's definitely aware and commanding things, I do think these are forms he's puppeting rather than himself, unless you have a specific thing in mind that makes you think he's fully reformed.
 
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eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
tbh I really find aerith and cloud's dynamic much closer to Yuki and Thoru's (Fruits Basket). Yuki (aerith) did had a crush on thoru but realized it's misguided. Thoru (cloud) is flustered with his advances but she Never saw anything beyond that, neither did she care to know what's up (but it did felt like thoru found him acting strange). She thought of him Only as a friend and was happy when yuki told her she's as vast as the sky. She appreciates his sentiments but that's it.
Funny, because the mangaka ship Clerith and ever publish her Clerith fanart on her twitter account.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Pretty sure he's an ongoing Hojo experiment trying to break free using the chadley cyborg/ bot/ thing to move about in the world.
Yeah, Chadley gives me DG vibes. For now, nobody in our party thinks anything nefarious is happening though. They all think he's helping them
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
.. tbh I really find aerith and cloud's dynamic much closer to Yuki and Thoru's (Fruits Basket). Yuki (aerith) did had a crush on thoru but realized it's misguided. Thoru (cloud) is flustered with his advances but she Never saw anything beyond that, neither did she care to know what's up (but it did felt like thoru found him acting strange). She thought of him Only as a friend and was happy when yuki told her she's as vast as the sky. She appreciates his sentiments but that's it.

Some saw there could be more between yuki and thoru but personally I never saw it, much like I Never saw there was anything "possible/more" between aerith and cloud (I think they made this Very Clear tbh). The game even jabs at the notion some have if zack or tifa didn't exist. We have that in dream date (they don't exist there), turns out it's still Not a thing lol (you even get some npcs saying "no spark" etc). Well it's kinda literal i know, but devs made it into this other world scenario when they could have easily shown this event in real world but didn't.

Anyway, some will think otherwise. I personally just Don't see that (especially considering all the stuff I've mentioned in another post that Did happen in the game and some more I didn't mention that spoke Against their notion. We even got 2k hero orz Doubling Down on Tifa and Cloud). I still remember being 8 watching AC without any clue who is who, and actually thought she was some sister or as he said, mother. When I saw Zack at the end, I thought "oh is that his mentor? We didn't saw him, are these people his teachers/parents who died at some point because of him or something?". What I mean is, I Never saw anything of what some "saw" and this was just me being as true neutral as possible with the way they delivered the stuff that happened in AC (not even ACC, which was clearer). My sentiments are still the same now tho. Only that they are not his parents nor sibling lol.
It’s a thought worth jabbing at because Aerith and Cloud would be vastly different people if not for Zack and Tifa respectively. To the point that I can’t even thought experiment how they would be because especially in Cloud’s case, so many of his life decisions root back to Tifa. He’d likely just be a faceless NPC in Nibelheim if she didn’t exist.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
That's what I'm thinking as well. For now, nobody in our party thinks anything nefarious is happening though. They all think he's helping them
I think he IS helping them. I just also think he's going to get hijacked and we're going to need to fight a chadleymonster in pt3
 
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Biscuit

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Bikit
Funny, because the mangaka ship Clerith and ever publish her Clerith fanart on her twitter account.
Lol. That is Ironic as heck. Tho, I can't really say if she thought of this ship while writing Fruits Basket.

But I do remember her saying, she always thought to add the mother bit for this dynamic (even as early as the main concept before it was serialized/before the characters were created). I believe she Never planned for this to be seen as "romantic".
 
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pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
I think he IS helping them. I just also think he's going to get hijacked and we're going to need to fight a chadleymonster in pt3
After he so casually introduced Mai, I instantly buckled up for the Yoko Taroesque reveal for part 3. Chadley is weird on purpose, no doubt.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
That one article mentioning the balance of screen time between the 2 heroines of the story. That people somehow have taken as meaning with Cloud instead of just screen time in general. Honestly shouldn't have revealed that and just let players experience it. These same people now think lifestream and Highwind will mean Aerith gets equivalent which doesn't make sense when she's Been killed? And they have major different story roles. In which Lifestream and Highwind isn't fan service it's important plot and character moments
It just shows that people are only capable of thinking about Tifa and Aerith in terms of their romantic relationship with Cloud sometimes.

When i read that i automatically assumed it was just for general screentime and importance and the game did show us basically that, but so many people automatically assumed it was about the love triangle somehow, as if the characters aren't anything more than that.

This whole love triangle crap just isn't healthy for this game and muddies everything else the game tries to present to us.
 
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