SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Biscuit

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Bikit
I think it was kitase who said that? From what I recall.

Tbh, I found this statement to be more true if all LA versions is what happened. You can see the stark differences between how he treats yuffie, aerith, etc in LA vs HA. In LA he's more cold and nonchalant (it's not on purpose tho, I mean he's not being mean on purpose). In HA he was more proactive and tries his best to actually be there for them as a Great Friend. It's fascinating that there's two very different versions. I don't think I'd ignore LA just because. Plus it kinda fits the vibe in OG.

Unless of course, we can take this statement as wholesome. He is kind and cherished all his friends (as we've seen him do his best in HA) but he wishes he was even more capable of showing that and treating them better than how he did.

While cloud may look cold and such. I think deep down he really wants to develop better social skills, which he does eventually. His idol is literally Zack which he takes some references from. I feel like if he was ever a friend to someone, he'd want to be the type of friend Zack was to him. Anyway, he does say in LS that he wished he could have talked and played with the nibelheim kids but he just didn't do it, probably didn't know how and was too proud to make mistakes or something.

His new found Friends right now is like that second chance for him. From Avalanche to his new Nakamas.
 
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Rin

Pro Adventurer
Nah he sits there because it’s his spot where he can look at Tifa’s bedroom without being spotted. It’s exactly what you see him doing in chapter 1, except he thinks he is a SOLDIER there but if you look at the scene, he doesn’t take off his sword XD because he did that as a grunt.
Oh, true, I forgot about that!
Actually, it's released in 2009 inside OTWTAS book. The one that was officially released in 2005 as web novel, for AC, is Case of Denzel and Case of Tifa.
Also, thank you for the correction! <3
 
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Rin

Pro Adventurer
If resolution is what happens after dream date. It's actually weird that she still said that after getting Friendzoned tho. He couldn't even gift her a gift that shows affection (the brooch, reunion flower given to girlfriend). Which leads me to believe.. she has trouble reading and understanding him. So I'd take her assesments somewhat like an unreliable narrator.
You know, I never considered that the dream date could happen before the resolution scene but it would make sense as it's supposed to be an Aerith who is closest to death, right?
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I’ve interpreted Cloud and Aerith in a similar Harry and Hermione relationship, because I loved the dance scene in the movie. They are friends, the best kind of friends, but there can always be an air that something is there. You could view the dance scene as romantic, but I didn’t, it was bittersweet. I really felt there was a similarity.

This is how that dance scene is described:

"The way that Dan and I played it was there was the possibility there could be something else between Hermione and Harry," Emma Watson tells. “If you spend that period of time with one person alone on the road and you don't know when you're going to see anyone else again, I dunno, I feel like maybe there could have been something there, but not really from Hermione's end. I think whether or not you like that story line or not, the scene has a tension but it's open to interpretation. It's not fixed."
 
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nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
The only time he doesn't do it is on the water tower in Nibelheim and I think that's because he's avoiding sitting in the same spot he sat w/ Tifa seven years ago.
Is this when they return to Nibelheim? Is it a difference in the affection system? Because he sits in his usual spot across Tifa’s window for me.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Is this when they return to Nibelheim? Is it a difference in the affection system? Because he sits in his usual spot across Tifa’s window for me.
No, not an affection thing. He sits next to her in his usual spot, I just totally forgot that's his usual spot haha
 

Biscuit

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Bikit
.. tbh I really find aerith and cloud's dynamic much closer to Yuki and Thoru's (Fruits Basket). Yuki (aerith) did had a crush on thoru but realized it's misguided. Thoru (cloud) is flustered with his advances but she Never saw anything beyond that, neither did she care to know what's up (but it did felt like thoru found him acting strange). She thought of him Only as a friend and was happy when yuki told her she's as vast as the sky. She appreciates his sentiments but that's it.

Some saw there could be more between yuki and thoru but personally I never saw it, much like I Never saw there was anything "possible/more" between aerith and cloud (I think they made this Very Clear tbh). The game even jabs at the notion some have if zack or tifa didn't exist. We have that in dream date (they don't exist there), turns out it's still Not a thing lol (you even get some npcs saying "no spark" etc). Well it's kinda literal i know, but devs made it into this other world scenario when they could have easily shown this event in real world but didn't.

Anyway, some will think otherwise because they ship. I personally just Don't see that regardless of my preferences (especially considering all the stuff I've mentioned in another post that Did happen in the game and some more I didn't mention that spoke Against their notion. We even got 2k hero orz Doubling Down on Tifa and Cloud). I still remember being 8 watching AC without any clue who is who, and actually thought she was some sister or as he said, mother. When I saw Zack at the end, I thought "oh is that his mentor? We didn't saw him, are these people his teachers/parents who died at some point because of him or something?". What I mean is, I Never saw anything of what some "saw" and this was just me being as true neutral as possible with the way they delivered the stuff that happened in AC (not even ACC, which was clearer). My sentiments are still the same now tho. Only that they are not his parents nor sibling lol.
 
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Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
They also love to bring up that Cloud was mesmerized seeing Aerith in her red dress and didn't feel anything when he saw Tifa.
This is a weird comparison to me, couse there was less urgency at the moment when Aerith walked up to Cloud with her dress, not to mention the scene in general being made out to be a spectacle or less so depending on which outfit you get. Also he's not really mesmerized with the other outfits either if they wanna go there.

With Tifa on the other hand, when Cloud initially spots Tifa in the Chocobo carriage, there is no real time for any kind of focus for dress reactions when it's all about him being worried in the moment, and the same is true when they later wake up in Corneos dungeon where they need to figure out how to get out. Though you can stand in front of both ladies there and make the girls showoff their dresses to you if you wish.

Anyway my point is that the dress reveal context is very different for both girls so it's just kinda pointless to compare them to be honest. If we had a similar Tifa walk up to Cloud under red carpets scene out there somewhere too then sure, but Tifas dress wasn't made out to be a big reveal in the first place.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I don't recommend them, even the silly giggly phase I usually get early on is scary.
Wife had a concussion scare back in college and I don't want to experience that or worry the wife, so, yeah.

I might have, once upon a time. But time means nothing, never will again.
Let's do the LTD agaiiiiin...

Then give it a raise :awesome:
- Lifts it up -

Think watching Pauling drool over Tifa will clue Scout in on why waiting patiently isn't working for him? ... Nah me either.
Can anything, honestly? Scout's dumbassery is almost legendary.

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA
Oh, Manah. such wasted potential of a character in 2. This is contrasted to most of the rest who had no potential to begin with.

Ouch. Gonna need a Burn Heal for that one.
Knowing his luck it will heal him through the burning.

Unlikely as it is, I know I've strained things to "everything tastes like blood" levels before so :awesome: We'll have to see.
Well, just don't do that, then.

Yeah, dude deserved a real vacation.
Maybe send him on a single's cruise.

Beware of CAltists pouring gasoline while viewing the wholesome and beautiful alternate future.
Some people just want to watch the world burn because their girl wasn't endgame, Master Bruce.

I Have seen those dark places. The Devil Himself (me) shudders at the thought.
They in effect stunt actual discourse and growth of though.

Simpsons did it?
The simpsons episode on the love triangle debate was odd. Homer wielded the Buster sword so naturally, though.

Well now you made it adorable.
I was aiming for a little bit sad and pathetic, honestly.

Picturing a sentry nest built into the gondola now. I love it.
Not into one of the cars, though, the spokes. because the angle is JUUUUUUUUST right.

Hojo: What did you do to my specimen?! You told me you were filling a cavity...

Medic: I was! The one I made in his abdomen.
Medic :I filled it with this other experiment, and look, they are getting along like family!

Hojo: They're trying to bite each other's heads off.

Medic: Ah, you are an only child, then?

I mean, he did until they exploded :monster:
It might even not have been his fault.

Scout has a brother? Wait nah his dad is Tom Jones, silly me.
Scout has 7 brothers, IIRC. It is unknown if they share the same paternal parentage.

An engineering firm, mind you. Pyro and Engie have been roomies for years after all.
They talk about solving problems.

I could see Cid saying most of Engie's lines, so can't argue that.
I can also imagine Engy and Barret comparing their gimmick arms.

New product, mako infused marijuana. We call it 1st Class, want a hit? -- Aerith in this darker timeline
One hit and you'll start seeing someone else's life.

It's good to have a goal in your early twenties, and hey it's even an achievable, realistic goal. It gets him through.
It's also a goal that keeps going. He can keep getting her attention, even.

On the other hand, M. Bison and Kano are both there seemingly if their own accord. Maybe a self-aware Sephiroth has hope yet... but yeah Golbez in particular would be the one trying to get him to his first meeting.
"Sephiroth, you can't keep obsessing on your nemesis. It's not healthy."
"You're one to talk. You're always thinking about your nemesis."
"I... -sigh- He's not my nemesis, he's my brother, and I am trying to atone for the things I did when I was being manipulated."
and so on and so forth.

We don't have time for obvious rational solutions.
Guess it's time to go bully Cthulhu into driving people mad again.

None at all. No resemblance between Mom of War and Dad of Boy. That's silly.
Apart from the repeatedly punching gods in the face. But that's just sort of a staple of the genre.

Now I want you to read this in MasakoX's Goku voice specifically: Yeah, i know. That's what subconsciously means.
I meant he's not thinking about making a new technique, period. He's pulling it out of his ass in the moment. He will then later need to figure out how the hell he did it.

As the Devil and Dark-type Gym Leader alike, I counteroffer Sucker Punching the aggressor before the first hit lands.
The Buddha nature used Bide.

And she had just used Fury Brand. She needed a minute.
Now I'm imagining the crew on the highwind using Rebirth mechanic shennanigans to generate limit for her. Yuffie just Brumal Forming in an ATB ward on the Sierra and checking her fitbit to get enough charge to send for Great Gospel

Aerith too needs a hug.
The main cast as a whole could use a lot of hugs.

Let's be honest that is an amazing dress. I do not know women's fashion and I can tell you that much. It's undeniably a sexy dress what with...

That :monster: It's wonderfully tailored to flatter her, and has all the elements needed to take it from a nice fuck-me dress to an elegant piece. Aerith wouldn't look out of place at a Hollywood awards ceremony in that dress.
Now I want to see fanart of Aerith and Tifa in the dresses presenting at an award show.

Pretty much.



As in that's the entire debate.



Hence us admitting Aerith has a place in this race at all.



Hence Aerith rapidly flagging and falling behind in said race.
It doesn't help her that she really wants to be racing on a different track, to stretch the metaphor further.

People don't connect this strongly with characters who don't feel alive, real, with agency. It's a rather important enabler to willing suspension of disbelief. So no, they have none of that and will do whatever the writers say, however they say, whenever they say. But if it feels like that's what is happening... Well I for one probably wouldn't even finish that story, let alone sign up to chat about it 27 years later.
Yeah, it's just people take it too far sometimes, and treat them like they're actually real. Snape and Sephiroth wives and whatnot.

so in the years since Advent Children, we have all caught on that Denzel basically = Cloud and Marlene basically = Aerith and their dynamic sums up their relationship… right? Not siblings, but they are siblings? Just me?

??? Marlene is described as a mini-Tifa lol.

I also don’t think the relationship Denzel and Marlene have is anything like CT’s lol.
Marlene acts like Tifa with a lot of Aerith's look. She's like a reverse form of the the combined character from early development.

So many Chadley haters! Jeebus haha. Well, if my theory about him turns out to be right, everyone will get their payback with him. I think in game 3, he'll be revealed as a bad guy, or his research will be used to create a bad guy similar to Almighty Shinra

Pretty sure he's an ongoing Hojo experiment trying to break free using the chadley cyborg/ bot/ thing to move about in the world.

I mean, not really in the end. Every manifestation/depiction of Sephiroth is ultimately from the same "source." It's the real Sephiroth's mind and goals.

The only difference is medium. Sephiroth in Chapter 18 was more forward and open with his plan but its still the same goal and mind. It's what Toriyama was talking about in the Ultimania Plus where all the Sephiroth's share the same mind/goal, hence the hallucination Sephiroth in Chapter 3 is saying things that reference and allude to what Sephiroth in Chapter 18 said.

The real Sephiroth, the true physical body of Sephiroth, is somewhere out there. What we saw in Rebirth's final chapter shows that he resurrected himself and then left north. We don't know where his body was before that but ultimately he's out and about now.
We'll have to see how it turns out in Pt3, but the impression I got was that Rift-iroth was acting on plans that "Regular" roth was not aware of. My suspicion is that Rift-iroth is Sephiroth post-defeat, and he wants his "present" self to act normally while he works on a secondary scheme. It's definitely still Sephiroth, just not the same one at the same time.

I also don't know if CH14 showed that Sephiroth is out of his crystal yet. He's definitely aware and commanding things, I do think these are forms he's puppeting rather than himself, unless you have a specific thing in mind that makes you think he's fully reformed.
 
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eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
tbh I really find aerith and cloud's dynamic much closer to Yuki and Thoru's (Fruits Basket). Yuki (aerith) did had a crush on thoru but realized it's misguided. Thoru (cloud) is flustered with his advances but she Never saw anything beyond that, neither did she care to know what's up (but it did felt like thoru found him acting strange). She thought of him Only as a friend and was happy when yuki told her she's as vast as the sky. She appreciates his sentiments but that's it.
Funny, because the mangaka ship Clerith and ever publish her Clerith fanart on her twitter account.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Pretty sure he's an ongoing Hojo experiment trying to break free using the chadley cyborg/ bot/ thing to move about in the world.
Yeah, Chadley gives me DG vibes. For now, nobody in our party thinks anything nefarious is happening though. They all think he's helping them
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
.. tbh I really find aerith and cloud's dynamic much closer to Yuki and Thoru's (Fruits Basket). Yuki (aerith) did had a crush on thoru but realized it's misguided. Thoru (cloud) is flustered with his advances but she Never saw anything beyond that, neither did she care to know what's up (but it did felt like thoru found him acting strange). She thought of him Only as a friend and was happy when yuki told her she's as vast as the sky. She appreciates his sentiments but that's it.

Some saw there could be more between yuki and thoru but personally I never saw it, much like I Never saw there was anything "possible/more" between aerith and cloud (I think they made this Very Clear tbh). The game even jabs at the notion some have if zack or tifa didn't exist. We have that in dream date (they don't exist there), turns out it's still Not a thing lol (you even get some npcs saying "no spark" etc). Well it's kinda literal i know, but devs made it into this other world scenario when they could have easily shown this event in real world but didn't.

Anyway, some will think otherwise. I personally just Don't see that (especially considering all the stuff I've mentioned in another post that Did happen in the game and some more I didn't mention that spoke Against their notion. We even got 2k hero orz Doubling Down on Tifa and Cloud). I still remember being 8 watching AC without any clue who is who, and actually thought she was some sister or as he said, mother. When I saw Zack at the end, I thought "oh is that his mentor? We didn't saw him, are these people his teachers/parents who died at some point because of him or something?". What I mean is, I Never saw anything of what some "saw" and this was just me being as true neutral as possible with the way they delivered the stuff that happened in AC (not even ACC, which was clearer). My sentiments are still the same now tho. Only that they are not his parents nor sibling lol.
It’s a thought worth jabbing at because Aerith and Cloud would be vastly different people if not for Zack and Tifa respectively. To the point that I can’t even thought experiment how they would be because especially in Cloud’s case, so many of his life decisions root back to Tifa. He’d likely just be a faceless NPC in Nibelheim if she didn’t exist.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
That's what I'm thinking as well. For now, nobody in our party thinks anything nefarious is happening though. They all think he's helping them
I think he IS helping them. I just also think he's going to get hijacked and we're going to need to fight a chadleymonster in pt3
 
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Biscuit

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Bikit
Funny, because the mangaka ship Clerith and ever publish her Clerith fanart on her twitter account.
Lol. That is Ironic as heck. Tho, I can't really say if she thought of this ship while writing Fruits Basket.

But I do remember her saying, she always thought to add the mother bit for this dynamic (even as early as the main concept before it was serialized/before the characters were created). I believe she Never planned for this to be seen as "romantic".
 
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pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
I think he IS helping them. I just also think he's going to get hijacked and we're going to need to fight a chadleymonster in pt3
After he so casually introduced Mai, I instantly buckled up for the Yoko Taroesque reveal for part 3. Chadley is weird on purpose, no doubt.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
That one article mentioning the balance of screen time between the 2 heroines of the story. That people somehow have taken as meaning with Cloud instead of just screen time in general. Honestly shouldn't have revealed that and just let players experience it. These same people now think lifestream and Highwind will mean Aerith gets equivalent which doesn't make sense when she's Been killed? And they have major different story roles. In which Lifestream and Highwind isn't fan service it's important plot and character moments
It just shows that people are only capable of thinking about Tifa and Aerith in terms of their romantic relationship with Cloud sometimes.

When i read that i automatically assumed it was just for general screentime and importance and the game did show us basically that, but so many people automatically assumed it was about the love triangle somehow, as if the characters aren't anything more than that.

This whole love triangle crap just isn't healthy for this game and muddies everything else the game tries to present to us.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I think he IS helping them. I just also think he's going to get hijacked and we're going to need to fight a chadleymonster in pt3
I think this is kinda alluded to in the Nibelheim world intel when Hojo realizes Chadley is off doing his own thing. He hacked into his mind or something lmao
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
The oddest thing I've seen about this debate is people talking about these characters as if they're real. For example, "Aerith/Tifa is allowed to move on", "they shouldn't be forced to waste half of their lives waiting for a guy", etc. And totally incidentally, it's usually done for ship-invalidating purposes. Besides, neither of them was hardly wasting away waiting for a guy? They were both living life the best they could even if they weren't hopping from one relationship to the next since that's hardly relevant to their characters or storylines?
For some reason they think written characters have a mind of their own that let's them do whatever they want, instead of you know, following on what the writer wants them to do. When a character is written to not move on then they won't move on.

Trying to compare fiction to real life in this way is just pointless.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
It just shows that people are only capable of thinking about Tifa and Aerith in terms of their romantic relationship with Cloud sometimes.

When i read that i automatically assumed it was just for general screentime and importance and the game did show us basically that, but so many people automatically assumed it was about the love triangle somehow, as if the characters aren't anything more than that.

This whole love triangle crap just isn't healthy for this game and muddies everything else the game tries to present to us.
Definitely. I think too many people view the characters through shipping goggles and therefore, it creates a bit of tunnel vision in regards to what’s happening around the characters and the rest of the story.
 
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