SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

Dance fights are a known Wutai strategy. All ShinRa troopers must be prepared to throw down at a moment's notice.

Maybe he learned because he thought he could impress Tifa with it or something? Maybe Zack taught him? They were friends, after all. I bet Zack invited him to karaoke nights with Kunsel.

Well yeah, he's only killing her, and that's no big deal for the perfect self insert vesse character. But horning in on their her man, that's unforgivable.

It's weird that Aerith is the self-insert when Tifa's personality feels more down-to-earth and relatable. A lot of Tifa's character traits are extremely relatable. Wanting friends, having insecurities, etc.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Welcome!

So you binged the entire series before the release of Rebirth? Jealous.

FF7 is one of those games I wish I could wipe from my memory so I could experience it for the first time again.

Thanks!

A little bit after the release of Rebirth actually. Everyone was talking about it so I had to see what it was all about and I'm very glad I did. My play order was really weird, I kind of played Remake and OG alongside each other, then played Rebirth, then watched Advent Children and played Crisis Core, then read Traces of Two Pasts. I'm still making my way through everything else. The amount of content is crazy but a lot of fun

Edit: Is that Yen as in Yennifer of the Witcher?

Nah, it's just short for my real name. I do love the Witcher though, and it's pretty wild to share a name with a character. That doesn't happen very often for me

 

[Xombii]

I love that I got some people sharing their experiences getting into this weird and wild 'ship war.' Lol. Honestly as someone who really never was a shipper I find it fascinating to find a forum of people who also claim to not really be massive shippers, yet have a fierce need to understand the minutiae of this particular fandom. I feel the same, right down to the gaslighting.

I've also noticed that amongst the theory bros and what have you, people that gravitate toward defending FF7's core romantic subtext are also the people who seem to have the most simple and probably (to my mind anyway) the most realistic takes and theories on other parts of the game. I hate the 'media literacy' argument but I am really not sure how else to call it.

I'm glad to have found a group of people with their heads on straight, and a matching hyper fixation for something I've had in my life since I was actually younger than the characters. Despite my occasional self-checks when I think to myself 'is it I that is wrong, have I dug myself into a bubble of delulu.'

 

[GamerSkull]

Thanks!

A little bit after the release of Rebirth actually. Everyone was talking about it so I had to see what it was all about and I'm very glad I did. My play order was really weird, I kind of played Remake and OG alongside each other, then played Rebirth, then watched Advent Children and played Crisis Core, then read Traces of Two Pasts. I'm still making my way through everything else. The amount of content is crazy but a lot of fun

Nah, it's just short for my real name. I do love the Witcher though, and it's pretty wild to share a name with a character. That doesn't happen very often for me

Oh nice. If you are looking to get into more, I highly recommend FFX. (It's my favorite FF).

I think Nojima was also the main scenario writer for that one, so there's some overlap there... particularly in the spirituality aspect imo.

I'm glad to have found a group of people with their heads on straight, and a matching hyper fixation for something I've had in my life since I was actually younger than the characters. Despite my occasional self-checks when I think to myself 'is it I that is wrong, have I dug myself into a bubble of delulu.'

I was somewhere around 13-14 when I first experienced FF7. So I actually feel really weird when I remember that Cloud is only 21. Currently, I'm only three years younger than Cid. This scares me.... extremely.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Maybe he learned because he thought he could impress Tifa with it or something? Maybe Zack taught him? They were friends, after all. I bet Zack invited him to karaoke nights with Kunsel.

It's weird that Aerith is the self-insert when Tifa's personality feels more down-to-earth and relatable. A lot of Tifa's character traits are extremely relatable. Wanting friends, having insecurities, etc.

It's down to appearances, I think.

Thanks!

A little bit after the release of Rebirth actually. Everyone was talking about it so I had to see what it was all about and I'm very glad I did. My play order was really weird, I kind of played Remake and OG alongside each other, then played Rebirth, then watched Advent Children and played Crisis Core, then read Traces of Two Pasts. I'm still making my way through everything else. The amount of content is crazy but a lot of fun

Especially if you include the tangential stuff like FF Tactics and Dissidia.

Nah, it's just short for my real name. I do love the Witcher though, and it's pretty wild to share a name with a character. That doesn't happen very often for me

I just asked because it's the only name I know that starts with Yen specifically.

Oh nice. If you are looking to get into more, I highly recommend FFX. (It's my favorite FF).

I think Nojima was also the main scenario writer for that one, so there's some overlap there... particularly in the spirituality aspect imo.

It's also technically also in continuity with FF7.


That said, play FF4. It will take you no time at all. Back when we were doing our replay-athons I had completed two different playthroughs of it in 24 hours.

 

[Xombii]

I'm in my 40's, I have a daughter Tifa's age! I've played every FF game and watched my kids play them after me. There's not too much to worry about, I'd say.

 

[GamerSkull]

It's also technically also in continuity with FF7.

Yeah, I've heard about several theories regarding that. I don't know much details about it unfortunately. When I played, I passed a lot of them off as just references. Like Shinra in X-2 for example.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I was somewhere around 13-14 when I first experienced FF7. So I actually feel really weird when I remember that Cloud is only 21. Currently, I'm only three years younger than Cid. This scares me.... extremely.

I'm older than the playable cast save Vincent. I was younger than Yuffie when I played it first.

Yeah, I've heard about several theories regarding that. I don't know much details about it unfortunately. When I played, I passed a lot of them off as just references. Like Shinra in X-2 for example.

It's a "you don't have to care but it was done deliberately" sort of thing. Same with putting Shinra's mask on the picture with the ShinRa founders in Remake. Nojima has stated several times the idea was to link them up somehow, but it wasn't a big deal to the story of either.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I appreciate the recommendations. I've heard great things about FFX, so I've been thinking about playing that or FF16 once I've gotten my fix of the FF7 compilation. FF4 I can probably run on my laptop so that'll be a good travel game

I didn't know there was continuity between the games at all I thought it was all just standalone stories. Or is it like a vague distant future thing where the continuity is just a fun thing fans can spot?

I was born a year after the game came out. Cool talking to people that got to play it when it was new. It's always just been part og gaming history for me

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm older than the playable cast save Vincent. I was younger than Yuffie when I played it first.


It's a "you don't have to care but it was done deliberately" sort of thing. Same with putting Shinra's mask on the picture with the ShinRa founders in Remake. Nojima has stated several times the idea was to link them up somehow, but it wasn't a big deal to the story of either.

Yeah, I expect it is similar to the FF Tactics, FFXII, and Vagrant Story. Those all take place in the same continuity, right? But there are huge gaps in the time periods?

It's down to appearances, I think.

I suppose that makes sense. Aerith, especially all of her depiction post-death, feels a lot less relatable imo... at least insofar as her heritage is concerned.

I didn't know there was continuity between the games at all I thought it was all just standalone stories. Or is it like a vague distant future thing where the continuity is just a fun thing fans can spot?

Yeah, FFVII and FFX are standalone. You can play either without having to play the other. From what I understand, the theory is that FFX takes place in the same world but it's a very, very long time before FFVII.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I appreciate the recommendations. I've heard great things about FFX, so I've been thinking about playing that or FF16 once I've gotten my fix of the FF7 compilation. FF4 I can probably run on my laptop so that'll be a good travel game

Like Doom, you can play FF4 on basically anything.

I didn't know there was continuity between the games at all I thought it was all just standalone stories. Or is it like a vague distant future thing where the continuity is just a fun thing fans can spot?

For the most part there is not, but yeah, like FF12, FF Tactics and FF Tactics Advance 1 and 2 and Vagrant Story sometimes (Creator has been inconsistent about that one specifically even though there are clear signs in game) there are certain incidents of continuity between games.

FF4 has The After Years, a sequel taking place 17 years after the first game and starring Cecil and Rosa's 17 year old son.

FF10 is a few thousand years before and an entirely different planet apart from FF7.

FF10 and 10-2 are obviously connected.

FF7 and it's various C's are connected, naturally. And G-bike.

FF5 leads into its own sequel movie set 100 years later. It also leads into - for Gilgamesh specifically - FF8, Dissidia, and Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin at least. FF9, FF12, FF13-2, FF14 and the Chocobo series Gilgamesh might also be the same guy. We think FF15's is not.

There is also an entity known as Omega (different from Omega Weapon) that has incarnations throughout various different worlds but is actually finally defeated in FF5.


FF12 has its literal sequel FF12 Revenant Wings, but also the games FF Tactics Advance and FF Tactics Advance 2 take place in the same Ivalice as those games (It is strongly implied that Marche and co overwrote the 'real' Ivalice with the ivalice of the Grimoire in FFTA, as the same Grimoire is used to travel to the Ivalice of FF12/ Rev wings and that stars the same Montblanc as FFTA and Vaan and Penelo from 12) and then hundreds of years later the magic of the world has begun fading after a massive calamity, this is where FFT happens, some years after that Vagrant Story.
The Ivalice shown in the beginning of FFTA and FFTA2 is not, as far as we can tell, the same world as the Ivalice of these games, but travel can be done between them via the Grimoire.

Obviously FF13 13-2 And Lightning Returns are interconnected.

Dissidia 012, Dissidia, Final Fantasy and Stranger of Paradise are all also in a continuity with each other.

Of EVERYTHING I have mentioned. the only ones you really need to give a crap about playing in any particular order are the ones with the same name in front of them. And even then only so much.

Yeah, I expect it is similar to the FF Tactics, FFXII, and Vagrant Story. Those all take place in the same continuity, right? But there are huge gaps in the time periods?

Yeah, FFVII and FFX are standalone. You can play either without having to play the other. From what I understand, the theory is that FFX takes place in the same world but it's a very, very long time before FFVII.

Different planet, as the farplane and the lifestream work similarly, but not the same.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

Hello everybody new forum member here. I been somehow active at the CloTi Subreddit lately and active lurker here. So my intro to FF7 was back in the day when I played an PS1 FF7 demo that included Tifa in the Reactor 1 bombing mission. Within a short time I got The OG FF7 game and I became a CloTi fan. I find Cloud, Tifa and the Cloti concept very relatable to me personally. NGL I disliked Aerith in OG, Remake made me like her, then Rebirth kind of regress her back to almost OG levels for me, but I never hated her. I consider myself kind of a purist CloTi/FF7 fan. Anyway I am here to enjoy the opinions and convo about our beloved series. Cheers.

 

[Roundhouse]

 

[Roundhouse]

(I fully expect the 'you're breaking my heart!' line to pop up at the Northern Crater scene at this point XD)

 

[GamerSkull]

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[ViolaaFox]

I'll try to catch up with posts here...I needed a break from the forum to play Trails Through Daybreak.

Does anyone else find the name of this thread grating? Like people who post here must see it again and again and again, with the line about Coke and new Coke imprinting in your minds forever. Hell it might even be helping the marketing for Coke in general with the amount of attention and posts here.

It's like new coke except...no it's exactly like new coke but it's old coke except it's nothing like old coke and it's like new coke except arggghh!

We could create a voting pool for a new thread name! And everyone can include their fav drink.

People can argue over endgame, but you cannot imply that Tifa isn't also the heroine of the story. She's just as relevant as Aerith, for different reasons.

Unfortunately, there will always be people who will down play the role of either Tifa or Aerith. In most cases it's for shipping reasons anyway, you can prefer one ship but still view both women as important to the story progression but it appears that some people have a very limited thinking on that....

I'll go a step further and say people don't like to equate Tifa to Aerith because of antiquated views on how each of them dress.

From what I read on Twitter and Reddit it sounds like it. I also have the feeling that there is often a certain misogyny behind it, in which parts of the community project their despise for a certain type of woman onto either Tifa or Aerith.

 

[GamerSkull]

Unfortunately, there will always be people who will down play the role of either Tifa or Aerith. In most cases it's for shipping reasons anyway, you can prefer one ship but still view both women as important to the story progression but it appears that some people have a very limited thinking on that....


From what I read on Twitter and Reddit it sounds like it. I also have the feeling that there is often a certain misogyny behind it, in which parts of the community project their despise for a certain type of woman onto either Tifa or Aerith.

I think regardless of preference over Cloti or Clerith, you simply cannot deny that BOTH are the heroines of the story.

And I agree about the projection. In my experience though, more CA fans throw shade at Tifa than CT fans throw shade at Aerith. However, that might just be the perception I have based on the circles I follow.

 

[ViolaaFox]

I think regardless of preference over Cloti or Clerith, you simply cannot deny that BOTH are the heroines of the story.

And I agree about the projection. In my experience though, more CA fans throw shade at Tifa than CT fans throw shade at Aerith. However, that might just be the perception I have based on the circles I follow.

From what I saw it's more CAs being misogynistic about Tifa's looks but as you say it probably depends on the community you follow. So I can't even say for sure if it's really more CAs who act in this kind of behavior. But it is still awful no matter how you look at it.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, it's inexcusable either way. Neither of them should be downplayed in terms of importance to the story.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was worse on the CA end these days purely because being on the "losing" side brings out the worst in people and because CT shippers can just ship Aerith with Zack rather than try to push her aside all together. I imagine if the roles were reversed CT shippers would get just as ugly

But, regardless ship wars like this really make the misogyny jump out and that's never cool. It's the main reason I was very averse to both ships going into the game, I just wanted nothing to do with it

 

[abzy1200]

I think that Cleriths appear to hate Tifa more than Clotis appear to hate Aerith because claiming Clerith as endgame necessitates grossly mischaracterising Tifa while Cloti does not have to do the same for Aerith.

Claiming Clerith as endgame necessitates:

-Making Tifa out to be an oblivious third-wheeler who invited herself to Cloud and Aerith's romantic reunion in death.
-Making Tifa seem like a nasty woman giving Cloud ultimatums ("A memory or us?" I know this isn't what is said, but this is what gets used in argument. )
-Characterising Tifa as some delusional person who can't accept her arrangements with Cloud doesn't make them a family.

Claiming Cloti as endgame necessitates:

-
-
-

Salt from being on the losing side definitely doesn't help either.

 

[looneymoon]

Toxic Cloti/Tifa fandom was majorly NLOG coded back in the day. Idk how much it's really changed now since these days I have become more enlightened centrist in finding both sides annoying

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of toxic Clotis out there. Like with any shipping fandom, there are bad apples on both sides.

I see more of the toxicity on Clerith's side but like I said before, I think that's primarily due to the circles I follow and it's quite possible I'm just not seeing the ones on the Cloti side.

 

[abzy1200]

Of course there are annoying people on both sides, I'm just saying that, at the most basic level, advocating for Clerith being endgame requires either a disliking for or a severe misunderstanding of Tifa, while Cloti does not for Aerith. This is why it might seem like there are more Tifa haters than Aerith haters.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think a Clerith endgame could exist. The story would need to be changed in a lot of ways though.

Remake Trilogy had the opportunity to institute those changes, but it did not.

The issue now is, if Clerith is endgame, then why did they waste all of Rebirth to do any build up? You can argue they do so at the very end, but it's kinda too late. Moreover, why build up the Cloti stuff just to 180?

The best thing they could have done was downplay both Cloti and Zerith and then build Clerith up simultaneously. But they didn't do that... in fact, they added more Cloti moments than what was in the original game... and they definitely made it seem like it was Zack's life mission to be with Aerith again.