SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Shadowstorm]

I know next to nothing about all these other Final Fantasies but good for that Seifer dude for getting a whole prequel game about him that builds up his relationship with Rinoa and where he dies trying to get back to her while protecting his dear friend Squall.

At least that's what I'm assuming happened based on folks acting like the situations are the same

 

[Reaper3Delta]

JFC Now the excuse is Tifa scamming the residents of sector 7 with broken water filters and Aerith being Mother Teresa just because Tifa's Rosa is the people's princess.

 

[Shadowstorm]

JFC Now the excuse is Tifa scamming the residents of sector 7 with broken water filters and Aerith being Mother Teresa just because Tifa's Rosa is the people's princess.

The water filters that she herself also uses? Sure, makes sense.

Seriously, what the hell kind of game do these people think this is? Do they think the devs chose to portray one of the main characters like that but only in the sublest of ways? Do they think part 3 is gonna have a "look! she was shitty all along!" moment or what?

 

[Reaper3Delta]

The water filters that she herself also uses? Sure, makes sense.

Seriously, what the hell kind of game do these people think this is? Do they think the devs chose to portray one of the main characters like that but only in the sublest of ways? Do they think part 3 is gonna have a "look! she was shitty all along!" moment or what?

I joined the fandom recently and the craziness is off the charts, i can't imagine people being here tolerating their bullshit for 20+ years. smh

 

[Eerie]

I joined the fandom recently and the craziness is off the charts, i can't imagine people being here tolerating their bullshit for 20+ years. smh

insert gif of men about to be hanged First time, eh?

In all seriousness, if Zack's "One date!" was written in CC to protect Aerith from crazy CTs who accused her of various things because of that line, the whole Tifa part in ToTP was written to protect her from many accusations she still suffers from to this day. Their goal is to gaslight, shame Tifa just to prove that Aerith is the "better" fit for Cloud (she isn't, not when Tifa has been entirely written at first for Cloud before developping more). Tifa's raison d'être is to save Cloud and for them to become a couple at the end of the main story; Aerith's raison d'être is to save the Planet, even though she doesn't really want to at first.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

insert gif of men about to be hanged First time, eh?

In all seriousness, if Zack's "One date!" was written in CC to protect Aerith from crazy CTs who accused her of various things because of that line, the whole Tifa part in ToTP was written to protect her from many accusations she still suffers from to this day. Their goal is to gaslight, shame Tifa just to prove that Aerith is the "better" fit for Cloud (she isn't, not when Tifa has been entirely written at first for Cloud before developping more). Tifa's raison d'être is to save Cloud and for them to become a couple at the end of the main story; Aerith's raison d'être is to save the Planet, even though she doesn't really want to at first.

Not first time , but is crazy out there lol. True they really want all Tifa have.

 

[GamerSkull]

The water filters that she herself also uses? Sure, makes sense.

Seriously, what the hell kind of game do these people think this is? Do they think the devs chose to portray one of the main characters like that but only in the sublest of ways? Do they think part 3 is gonna have a "look! she was shitty all along!" moment or what?

You would think Tifa is more evil than Sephiroth with the way she is sometimes described by some people.

 

[Xannis]

Found this video in my You Tube wanderings that I thought might be interesting to people on this board.

Obviously not the only one of it's type but it does a good job of delving into the different literary devices that writers use and how they're used in FF7. Anyway, it's long (54 min) but I think it's worth the listen regardless of which side of the debate you fall on (although spoiler alert it's 100% pro-Cloti). I also really like the question/challenge he poses to Clerith's which is you might just be missing out on a good love story .

 

[GamerSkull]

Found this video in my You Tube wanderings that I thought might be interesting to people on this board.

Obviously not the only one of it's type but it does a good job of delving into the different literary devices that writers use and how they're used in FF7. Anyway, it's long (54 min) but I think it's worth the listen regardless of which side of the debate you fall on (although spoiler alert it's 100% pro-Cloti). I also really like the question/challenge he poses to Clerith's which is you might just be missing out on a good love story .

I recall DutchDread from some of the older LTD posts on here that I read a couple of months ago.

 

[Eerie]

I recall DutchDread from some of the older LTD posts on here that I read a couple of months ago.

Yeah he used to post here.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I have not watched the video, but I will speak to how narratively... disjointed, let's say it would be to have Act 3 feature the male lead tell one of his potential loves "I've always wanted you to notice me" only for him to apparently have fallen for another woman in the meantime, and then have him move in with and start a family with that first woman, despite, not being in love with her.

 

[aeriths]

I have not watched the video, but I will speak to how narratively... disjointed, let's say it would be to have Act 3 feature the male lead tell one of his potential loves "I've always wanted you to notice me" only for him to apparently have fallen for another woman in the meantime, and then have him move in with and start a family with that first woman, despite, not being in love with her.

Truly the only way CA could be any sort of endgame at this point is if they go true off the walls multiverse madness and some other versions of themselves are together in a parallel world where Tifa is dead (since they have shown Cloud is romantically interested in Tifa whether Aerith is alive or not) that’s completely off of the main timeline. Which would certainly be a choice LOL

 

[Shadowstorm]

And that is exactly why they keep calling for things like the LS scene to be reworked around Clerith, or for the Highwind scene to be optional with different characters. They know damn well that the only way for their ship to come off as the main romance the existing Cloti scenes from the OG will have to be cut.

The general audience perception is already tipping more and more in favor of CT, at least 2 gaming websites have called it settled, even a channel like watchmojo is comfortable including ZT and CT in a top 10 FF ship list now. There's no way they don't see that, so for these next few years they're just gonna be extra desperate.

I feel bad for them on some level ngl, but how far they have to reach only makes me more confident this is already locked in.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Apparently the usual suspects are back to insisting COLW is undeniable fact and not a personal narrative because it's written in third person.

Media illiteracy hypothesis strengthened.

Also, x.com

Can confirm, this is a real interaction that I have seen in the wild.

 

[GamerSkull]

Apparently the usual suspects are back to insisting COLW is undeniable fact and not a personal narrative because it's written in third person.

Media illiteracy hypothesis strengthened.

Also, x.com

Can confirm, this is a real interaction that I have seen in the wild.

Yeah, Tifa dated Zack. Just like Cloud dated Cissnei.

Also, why can they embrace COLW but seem to ignore ToTP or 2000 Gil to become a Hero?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, Tifa dated Zack. Just like Cloud dated Cissnei.

Also, why can they embrace COLW but seem to ignore ToTP or 2000 Gil to become a Hero?

Because they think it gives them the win.
As long as "Aerith wins Cloud" nothing else matters. Not narrative, not character, just the ship.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Been watching Rebirth. One thing I noticed is that (so far) people get that Cloud wants to be a hero but few people seem to get how specifically he wants to be Tifa's hero. It's like, yeah, Cloud is a typical JRPG protagonist who wants to help and save people but that kind of stems from his love for Tifa? The streamer I'm watching also commented on how there's this disconnect between what Cloud wants to be and who he actually is, regarding the hero thing. And again, it's his love for Tifa and Tifa's love for him that ultimately gives him the strength to become the hero he wants to be. But I guess people will get that when Part 3 drops?

I like how even Tifa and Cloud's "my dad/mum, my village" speech to Sephiroth mirrored each other.

It's also kind of funny how CT and CA's talks in Kalm mirrored each other; both girls start with talk about where Midgar is before the topic moves onto CT's relationship, lol. Also, there was a kid with a fake buster sword in Kalm, lol. I wonder why. Zack didn't visit Kalm in Crisis Core, right?

Not sure if this added anything to the conversation here but I guess it's fine.

EDIT: And of course how Tifa's talk happens at night whereas Aerith's happens under fair skies, lol.

 

[Empyrea]

Apparently the usual suspects are back to insisting COLW is undeniable fact and not a personal narrative because it's written in third person.

Media illiteracy hypothesis strengthened.

Also, x.com

Can confirm, this is a real interaction that I have seen in the wild.

You leave them alone for a bit and they go ahead and become Sephiroth themselves.

Gotta say, what a clumsy attempt at gaslighting (intentional or not), though. I mean, fact checking that "misunderstanding" is very easy.

 

[GamerSkull]

It’s amazing how much some people will try to convince others that 1+ 1 = 3.

 

[GamerSkull]

Could it be that people want to imagine Zack and Tifa having dated because it means it happened in the middle of his relationship with Aerith. Ergo, proof that Zack is a cheater?

 

[Ryeleigh]

Could it be that people want to imagine Zack and Tifa having dated because it means it happened in the middle of his relationship with Aerith. Ergo, proof that Zack is a cheater?

One detail I liked about the Nibelheim flashback in Rebirth was how Za!Cloud was way too hyper and energetic for Tifa, lol. She kept flinching back from him even though obviously neither meant anything bad by it.

But yeah, it takes a special kind of illiteracy and/or disingenuousness to say that canonically Zack and Tifa dated.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Been watching Rebirth. One thing I noticed is that (so far) people get that Cloud wants to be a hero but few people seem to get how specifically he wants to be Tifa's hero. It's like, yeah, Cloud is a typical JRPG protagonist who wants to help and save people but that kind of stems from his love for Tifa? The streamer I'm watching also commented on how there's this disconnect between what Cloud wants to be and who he actually is, regarding the hero thing. And again, it's his love for Tifa and Tifa's love for him that ultimately gives him the strength to become the hero he wants to be. But I guess people will get that when Part 3 drops?

I like how even Tifa and Cloud's "my dad/mum, my village" speech to Sephiroth mirrored each other.

It's also kind of funny how CT and CA's talks in Kalm mirrored each other; both girls start with talk about where Midgar is before the topic moves onto CT's relationship, lol. Also, there was a kid with a fake buster sword in Kalm, lol. I wonder why. Zack didn't visit Kalm in Crisis Core, right?

Not sure if this added anything to the conversation here but I guess it's fine.

Just reminds me of the brilliantly subtle way FF7’s story lies by omission. You’re made to think Cloud is just like the little kids you see throughout the early game, dreaming of being SOLDIER and heroes for the sake of being heroes. The LS scene is where you learn that Cloud wanted be a hero to Tifa specifically, a contrast to Zack.

The parallels between Aerith and Tifa are interesting though, as well as the specific use of elements throughout. Sephiroth being directly tied to fire, Aerith being represented by flowers probably to act as an earth stand in, water for the lifestream, wind for whatever is doing Zack stuff.

I’m starting to see more and more how Rebirth functions as a self-contained story as well as a part 2 of 3.

As for the stuff around COLW, that famous paragraph explains itself if you read the whole thing. Third person limited perspective is the only way it makes any sense, and it matches the perspective of all the other parts of On the Way to a Smile. It’s also why I’m all for implementing these external works into the main game somehow. Helps keep reasonable people from getting lost in the shuffle.

 

[GamerSkull]

One detail I liked about the Nibelheim flashback in Rebirth was how Za!Cloud was way too hyper and energetic for Tifa, lol. She kept flinching back from him even though obviously neither meant anything bad by it.

But yeah, it takes a special kind of illiteracy and/or disingenuousness to say that canonically Zack and Tifa dated.

This fandom is in such a huge mess that even basic things that can be easily fact checked fall through the cracks.

 

[Empyrea]

Could it be that people want to imagine Zack and Tifa having dated because it means it happened in the middle of his relationship with Aerith. Ergo, proof that Zack is a cheater?

I'd say this is it. And as a bonus, it also gets Tifa out of the way.

One detail I liked about the Nibelheim flashback in Rebirth was how Za!Cloud was way too hyper and energetic for Tifa, lol. She kept flinching back from him even though obviously neither meant anything bad by it.

But yeah, it takes a special kind of illiteracy and/or disingenuousness to say that canonically Zack and Tifa dated.

The real kicker is that instead of just keeping that to themselves as their headcanon, they're trying to convince the other person there that they're right. They even cited the Mandela effect for it.

 

[GamerSkull]

I'd say this is it. And as a bonus, it also gets Tifa out of the way.


The real kicker is that instead of just keeping that to themselves as their headcanon, they're trying to convince the other person there that they're right. They even cited the Mandela effect for it.

The sheer hilarity of confidently stating something as fact while simultaneously admitting you’ve never actually played the game is just….. well, amazing really.

You’d think they’d just lie about having played it. Would probably make them look better despite still being wrong.