SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

I haven't gotten the Aerith and Yuffie dates yet since I'm still catching up and they're underpowered atm, but I was kinda surprised at how hard the Tifa one went. It's hard to do anything more than we already got in Rebirth but Cloud being the one to almost confess but lose his nerve really is something.

I agree though, that it's the fanservice phone game and shouldn't be taken as gospel. I don't believe the main games are built around feeding the LTD at all, but something like this does have a vested interest in pandering to both sides to keep them playing. Hell, should it keeping going after part 3 is out I wouldn't be surprised if they keep baiting Clerith even after Cloti is locked in. Hope Zerith can start getting some crumbs in these events too though.

My understanding is that the main scenario segments are part of continuity, but that all the event stuff is pure fluff.
Speaking of those, folks definitely took note that the Crisis Core plot segment introducing Aerith was scheduled to drop on the 8th in Japan, which happens to be the anniversary of when Zack and Aerith's Voice Actors got married.


Also, unrelated, but I had a thought about the TOTA trials everyone went through.

Everyone else's trials are about extremely painful moments in their past, but Cloud's is about a painful moment for Tifa and Tifa's features Cloud more than it does her, along with having the reunion flower from his version of the flashback.

Could their trials have been swapped, somehow?

 

[Eerie]

Everyone else's trials are about extremely painful moments in their past, but Cloud's is about a painful moment for Tifa and Tifa's features Cloud more than it does her, along with having the reunion flower from his version of the flashback.

Could their trials have been swapped, somehow?

Tifa's trial is odd. It's the only one where the character "interacts" with the memories and as her current self, not her old one; I believe fully that the trial is something like a spell made up by the Cetra that draws information from the Lifestream, creating a sort of very temporary other world where the character revives his own memory as they were at that time.

Aerith's was a little different because she is a Cetra. But Tifa's? Tifa is a normal human, so it does bend the question, her being in contact like this with important, key memories... looks a bit like the future Lifestream. In fact, is it Cloud from her own memories, or is it true Cloud showing up there, since he's locked somewhere (he's not able to talk, in fact the little Tifa doesn't either)? She already visited the place of the Lifestream scene, she will revisit it again soon enough; there has been hints in Rebirth to say that Cloud and Tifa are actual soulmates, and them sharing those memories in their trials would also point at that.

The Lifestream sequence is going to be amazing people, that's all I'm saying. All the hints to it are absolutely incredible. And then other people make it a group project and I'm like "just look at what's been given, it's a CT scene only".

 

[pxl_pushr]

Tifa's trial is odd. It's the only one where the character "interacts" with the memories and as her current self, not her old one; I believe fully that the trial is something like a spell made up by the Cetra that draws information from the Lifestream, creating a sort of very temporary other world where the character revives his own memory as they were at that time.

Aerith's was a little different because she is a Cetra. But Tifa's? Tifa is a normal human, so it does bend the question, her being in contact like this with important, key memories... looks a bit like the future Lifestream. In fact, is it Cloud from her own memories, or is it true Cloud showing up there, since he's locked somewhere (he's not able to talk, in fact the little Tifa doesn't either)? She already visited the place of the Lifestream scene, she will revisit it again soon enough; there has been hints in Rebirth to say that Cloud and Tifa are actual soulmates, and them sharing those memories in their trials would also point at that.

The Lifestream sequence is going to be amazing people, that's all I'm saying. All the hints to it are absolutely incredible. And then other people make it a group project and I'm like "just look at what's been given, it's a CT scene only".

It’s definitely a standout, and I’ve seen people calling out oddities with Tifa and Yuffie’s trials ( for different reasons obviously but both have implications )

I think Aerith’s dream date may hint that places that hold strong, cherished memories between two people may act as a nexus point where their individual lifestreams crossover? So if the watertower in Tifa and Cloud’s “place of memories” then it’s possible that Jenova may have touched that place and Cloud’s silence may be a hint at his “secret, sealed up wish”?

Part 3 is gonna be nutty

 

[Eerie]

I think Yuffie's trial is a bit different because uh.... Sonon hasn't joined the Lifestream, his soul is with that psycho so that's why he's appearing like this in Yuffie's trial, because the LS cannot give back the memory of him.

 

[GamerSkull]

Geez, all these strange takes and Square wanting to play both sides so Part 3 sales don’t end up going as bad are going to make the wait for Part 3 excruciatingly difficult. Hopefully, they don’t try to play both sides as trying to do so will please neither.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

Geez, all these strange takes and Square wanting to play both sides so Part 3 sales don’t end up going as bad are going to make the wait for Part 3 excruciatingly difficult. Hopefully, they don’t try to play both sides as trying to do so will please neither.

Imma wait for legit leaks before I pre-order pt.3

 

[GamerSkull]

Personally, even if I want Cloti canon… I’d rather they confirm Clerith is canon more so than keeping it ambiguous between both.

At least if they confirm one side over the other, I can move on and find other things.

Even the losing side is preferable to ambiguous imo.

 

[Eerie]

Considering they're very clearly going CT and ZA, IDK what makes you think that. ALso just so you know, I had leaks before they even reached this forum, and it somehow changed how I played and my perception of the scenes. I think next time I will avoid leaks, personally; I'm confident about what we're getting in p3, romance-wise.

 

[aeriths]

Is there another take from Square I’ve missed that catered to both sides? Like I said before, I wouldn’t put much weight in an extra side event from a series’ gacha game if that’s all we’re still talking about

 

[GamerSkull]

Considering they're very clearly going CT and ZA, IDK what makes you think that. ALso just so you know, I had leaks before they even reached this forum, and it somehow changed how I played and my perception of the scenes. I think next time I will avoid leaks, personally; I'm confident about what we're getting in p3, romance-wise.

Yeah. I definitely think they are gearing up for CT and ZA endgame. If they aren’t, then they made poor decisions with Rebirth. This would have been the game to build-up Clerith but instead they chose to add Cloti scenes that didn’t exist in the original while removing the Clerith ones (the Cait Sith fortune at ToTA comes to mind).

And they very clearly don’t downplay Zack’s love for Aerith. You cannot deny that guy is in love with Aerith based on his actions in this game.

If these setups are going nowhere, then why bother?

All I’m saying is… in a hypothetical situation, I’d rather lose than have things remain ambiguous because at least then I’d have closure.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I'd prefer ambiguous in this particular situation not because I don't want Clerith to win, but because at this point there is so much set up for ZA and CT that brushing them both off would almost have to be poorly written. Much as I want this part of the ship war to end, good storytelling should always take priority imo.

But it's a moot point, the odds of them not commiting in part 3 are minimal and I just don't think they're worried about upsetting shippers that much. The percentage of people that both ship Clerith and play the game soley for shipping reasons is laughably small.

It's different with a gacha game. The ones most likely to spend money on that are people with FOMO, people with addictive personalities, and people with serious FF7 brainrot. The latter comes free with being a hardcore shipper so throwing all ships some bones here and there makes sense, especially considering it doesn't hurt their creative integrity since it's just silly fluff side content. They are not gonna have the same priorities with a 60 dollar one-time purchase that's supposed to wrap up the story in a satisfying way

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

It’s definitely a standout, and I’ve seen people calling out oddities with Tifa and Yuffie’s trials ( for different reasons obviously but both have implications )

Yuffie's kind of stood out to me as being sort of...especially cruel? Like beyond being just a traumatic memory. Sonon not being in the Lifestream proper makes sense though.

 

[GamerSkull]

I'd prefer ambiguous in this particular situation not because I don't want Clerith to win, but because at this point there is so much set up for ZA and CT that brushing them both off would almost have to be poorly written. Much as I want this part of the ship war to end, good storytelling should always take priority imo.

But it's a moot point, the odds of them not commiting in part 3 are minimal and I just don't think they're worried about upsetting shippers that much. The percentage of people that both ship Clerith and play the game soley for shipping reasons is laughably small.

It's different with a gacha game. The ones most likely to spend money on that are people with FOMO, people with addictive personalities, and people with serious FF7 brainrot. The latter comes free with being a hardcore shipper so throwing all ships some bones here and there makes sense, especially considering it doesn't hurt their creative integrity since it's just silly fluff side content. They are not gonna have the same priorities with a 60 dollar one-time purchase that's supposed to wrap up the story in a satisfying way

I see your point of view and in some ways I agree… I guess I’m just frustrated that there is potential for them to basically chicken out in the end.

I just feel like I just want the gaslighting to be over.

 

[Ryushikaze]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1elya37 Seeing this on reddit always confuses me, So what is True Did Cloud have some of Zacks memories? I found this
quote that implies he did
FFVII Rebirth Director Hamaguchi says that when it comes to Cloud in the Nibelheim Flashback, it’s not just Cloud alone; it’s a blend of Cloud’s memories and Zack’s memories. (kakuchopurei, 10/26/2023)

The rain that falls at the end of Crisis Core: FF7 when Zack is dying stops by the time Cloud says "Thank you." This sequence not only indicates the passage of time but also implies how Zack's memories have imprinted onto Cloud. (Continuity Director Toshiyuki Momose; CCU, 2007

But I was always confused on the memory thing and also if Jenova Cells in Cloud are Jenovas will,
or just the ability of the cells? I feel he has to have some memories of Zack since he can recall word for word the exact conversation Zack had with Sephiroth while he was outside with Tifa everything even turning the valve except for the Genesis talk?

Circling back to this but I found the quote that says Jenova reads Tifa's mind and uses some of her memories in making the SOLDIER!Cloud persona. It was in the Ultimania Omega. Posted that in the discussion and not a peep from OP since.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I see your point of view and in some ways I agree… I guess I’m just frustrated that there is potential for them to basically chicken out in the end.

I just feel like I just want the gaslighting to be over.

I totally get that and I hope I didn't come off as too dismissive of that feeling. I do recognize that I'm in a very different position here not having had to deal with that bullshit for years. It's much easier for me to want them to just focus on telling a good story when I've only been here a few months and have been able to dodge the worst of fandom crap.

I also have my own bias in that I really try to keep an open mind about as many possibilities as possible because hoping for a specific outcome, especially one in response to fandom typically leads to major disappointment because a good creator is always gonna tell the story they want to tell. I'd rather rationalize it ahead of time so I can just enjoy the game when it comes out because hater mode sadly isn't fun for me.

Circling back to this but I found the quote that says Jenova reads Tifa's mind and uses some of her memories in making the SOLDIER!Cloud persona. It was in the Ultimania Omega. Posted that in the discussion and not a peep from OP since.

Ha! typical.

 

[pxl_pushr]

People arguing over Cloud’s mental state and I’m wondering if some people forget that Jenova itself removes this from a discussion about basic psychology. It’s Final Fantasy where real world issues don’t exactly translate 1:1. So yes, the fact that part of Zack is in some way, shape, or form grafted onto Cloud’s persona should be taken into consideration.

 

[GamerSkull]

I totally get that and I hope I didn't come off as too dismissive of that feeling. I do recognize that I'm in a very different position here not having had to deal with that bullshit for years. It's much easier for me to want them to just focus on telling a good story when I've only been here a few months and have been able to dodge the worst of fandom crap.

I also have my own bias in that I really try to keep an open mind about as many possibilities as possible because hoping for a specific outcome, especially one in response to fandom typically leads to major disappointment because a good creator is always gonna tell the story they want to tell. I'd rather rationalize it ahead of time so I can just enjoy the game when it comes out because hater mode sadly isn't fun for me.

Ha! typical.

Haha. No worries. I didn’t take it that way.

I agree though. They’ve put too much setup into CT and ZA to change their minds. I’ll be very disappointed if they don’t go all the way now, not just for shipping reasons but also because the story would now feel disjointed.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Well I did the Yuffie fireworks thingy, it was cute and funny, with comedy segment, it was the most comedic relief of the three as Yuffie's usually are I think. Yuffie

Spoiler

tries showing off for Cloud and things don't quite go according to plan, the ending also ends up adorable and funny anyway

 

[Shadowstorm]

Haha. No worries. I didn’t take it that way.

I agree though. They’ve put too much setup into CT and ZA to change their minds. I’ll be very disappointed if they don’t go all the way now, not just for shipping reasons but also because the story would now feel disjointed.

That's what most of the shipping war comes down to for me at this point. I'm not gonna say I'm not shipper-brained with a personal investment in CT and ZA, but the main reason I feel so strongly about them being endgame is just because pivoting away from it last-second would be an incredibly weird writing choice. Not to mention how a CA ending would pretty much require them to sacrifices FF7's theme of accepting reality as it is and moving on.

I also like Aerti but I'll actively argue against that one for the same reason. Some things just don't work for the story being told and accepting that makes for a much nicer experience. I truly hope most Clerith fans can reach that point as well.

 

[Shadowstorm]

So, against my better judgement I went dumpster-diving on twitter the other day, and saw someone point out that in Rebirth Aerith's "everyone is waiting" is the same thing Tifa says in the original LS scene. Now, this person was using it as evidence that the line belongs to Aerith now and they are going to give her the LS scene instead, which is a reach if I ever saw one, but it did make me curious about if they're setting up a parallel or something, and I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts on it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

So, against my better judgement I went dumpster-diving on twitter the other day, and saw someone point out that in Rebirth Aerith's "everyone is waiting" is the same thing Tifa says in the original LS scene. Now, this person was using it as evidence that the line belongs to Aerith now and they are going to give her the LS scene instead, which is a reach if I ever saw one, but it did make me curious about if they're setting up a parallel or something, and I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts on it.

It seems very unlikely. "Everyone's waiting" wasn't an important line in the Lifestream Sequence itself, just what Tifa said as they were returning to the land of the living. Like, compared to other lines around it both in rebirth and in the LS, it's a bit of a nothing line, more there to indicate the scene is over than anything.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Kinda throwaway, but that actually says the opposite imo. Why say it twice in two scenes that are so similar?

If anything, it indicates the end of her LS scene, not Cloud’s.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Kinda throwaway, but that actually says the opposite imo. Why say it twice in two scenes that are so similar?

If anything, it indicates the end of her LS scene, not Cloud’s.

Her in this case being Aerith or Tifa? Antecedents, man, you need to specify them!

 

[eleamaya]

So, against my better judgement I went dumpster-diving on twitter the other day, and saw someone point out that in Rebirth Aerith's "everyone is waiting" is the same thing Tifa says in the original LS scene. Now, this person was using it as evidence that the line belongs to Aerith now and they are going to give her the LS scene instead, which is a reach if I ever saw one, but it did make me curious about if they're setting up a parallel or something, and I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts on it.

Wow, I love this parallel. Kinda similar to "dilly dally silly shally"
Ofc it doesn't mean Aerith would get Tifa's role lol--never, but I really love how it's about time for Cloud to return to the others.

 

[null]

LS scene belongs to Kadaj who is the last person she says “everyone’s waiting” to. No takesy backsies, m-mother.