GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Crisis Core just got a re-release because it was relevant. The timing is intentional.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
They're taking a very poorly worded question and answer to that question as "evidence" that nothing in it matters, despite it being more relevant than ever.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
If it’s the whispers then why is Cloud the only one having memory issues. Surely, the whispers would try to mess with everyone else’s memory too, no?
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
The hypothesis was that Zack wasn't supposed to die so instead of healing Zack from death or preventing it, they just scooped his memories and plopped them into Cloud. That the arbiters of fate did this without straightening Cloud out at all and leaving in a backdoor that the villain he was supposed to defeat could use was not addressed. Despite me bringing it up. Seriously, if you want to see the exchange, check my reddit profile.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
No, I’ll pass. I don’t want to lose anymore brain cells.
That sounds completely stupid. There’s nothing to indicate that… and if the whispers did that then Cloud would have verbatim all of Zack’s memories instead of the warped versions he has. And how does that square away the fact that Cloud remembers Zack?
None of this story would make sense if Jenova is suddenly a non-factor to Cloud’s psyche. He even refers to her as Mother several times.
By the way, how does this person square away Ever Crisis, in which the First Soldier story appears to be in continuity with ReTrilogy? Ever Crisis contains the events of Crisis Core and a young Angeal is showing up in the upcoming episodes.
And fuck, if even the villains of Dirge of Cerberus exist then why would Crisis Core, the more loved spin-off be non-canon?
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Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Oh, the hypothesis accounted for exactly zero variables and stood up to no rigorous examination. It's why the guy was so against the older sources. They told him he was wrong flat out.
Speaking of Jenova and Cloud's memories, the guy who was insisting Jenova didn't copy Zack's memories and twist them to make SOLDIER Cloud and his memories is still fighting against that fact, despite the multiple times in the UO alone it says Zack's memories influenced Cloud.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
ReTrilogy may be a reimagining but they aren’t gonna change something that basic. It’s like saying Tifa being 20 is non-canon because it’s an old Ultimania fact.
Moreover, wasn’t there an interview that stated they wanted to add Compilation stuff into ReTrilogy to make everything feel more cohesive?
Shadowstorm
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Yen
Well we can't have that! If the ages are non-canon then how will we hold up Aerith being older than Cloud as proof that she's the "older woman" Claudia was talking about and therefore Cloud's soulmate?
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I don’t understand why people are so selective in this fandom. It’s maddening. LOL
Sacky
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- SackyBoy
I would say don't use the old ultimanias as 100 percent fact if something has been retconned or isn't adding up like the Whole of Zack's character. However I saw the context this person was saying on his reddit theories xd and the interview hes chosen wasn't words said by the actual developer like they claim. Its just a summary of a translated youtube interview by the website author that they are thinking was Hamaguchi but it wasn't since they don't understand quotes it seems? Heres what devs actually said.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
You mean the FFIX rerun? CAs happy with that one because Cloud is Zidane and Aerith is Garnet
Shadowstorm
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Yen
I don't actually know who these people are I was just talking about Cloud and Tifa being the characters advertised to me when I opened the app lol.You mean the FFIX rerun? CAs happy with that one because Cloud is Zidane and Aerith is Garnet
Anyway, I'm not against CA's having nice things I was specifically making fun of the phenomenon of using little details in the gacha game as evidence of what the main ship is, especially with stuff like this where I imagine the choices are based on which characters have the same gear/fighting style.
I've said before I honestly think they'll keep putting Clerith crumbs in there well after the ships are locked in in part 3 because that's just smart business.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
They've been doing it for ZA, it seems.
As for the FF9 costumes, while Zidane makes some sense for Cloud (Connection to villain, past involves experimentation) the character he's most like is Steiner, I'd say, though you could make an argument for Barrett being that as well due to his overprotective nature. Tifa as a person isn't much of anything like Amarant, so the reasoning there is just that he's the martial arts character. Honestly, vibes wise Amarant's probably the most like Vincent, but this is the problem with trying to just swap characters around like the series never does anything new. It does!
Like, no one in FF7 really would 'fit' as Vivi narratively.
That said, I always approve of inter- and intra-franchise cosplay arts.
Also Tifa would make for an excellent Beatrix to go with Cloud's Steiner, for the record.
Yeah, It was clearly latching onto the way the English speaking person in the video phrased the question and then ignoring everything else he and all the other devs said about the game.
I can see EC holding back on matching outfits for Cloud and Tifa until we hit Disc 2 content ( if it lives that long. No idea how EC is doing financially ). Same for SE’s marketing before Remake part 3. It’s Aerith’s moment, no shock they’ll keep her close to and on center stage.
I still remember how Aerith and Cloud were shown off pretty early in Remake’s marketing, but Tifa was the one held back for the big E3 showcase. Crowd went nuts when they finally showed her onscreen.
Main casts of FFs rarely fully copy eachother, which is pretty impressive considering how FF functions. Characters can be similar, but there’s usually one or two aspects that make them different be it their personality or the job class they represent.
I still remember how Aerith and Cloud were shown off pretty early in Remake’s marketing, but Tifa was the one held back for the big E3 showcase. Crowd went nuts when they finally showed her onscreen.
Main casts of FFs rarely fully copy eachother, which is pretty impressive considering how FF functions. Characters can be similar, but there’s usually one or two aspects that make them different be it their personality or the job class they represent.
Shadowstorm
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Yen
Yeah, with the way the outfits came hand in hand with Zidane's sword and Amaranth's claws I kind of assumed it was based more on aesthetic than plot and character stuff. It'd look pretty bad for FF as a whole if their casts were interchangeable like that.
Like my only other FF experience at the moment is maybe half of of FF4 and if you asked me to make a crossover with that I'd totally put Aerith as Rosa, not because I think their personalities or roles in the plot are a particularly good fit, but because they're both the white mage character. Then again, I'd also be tempted to place Zack as Cecil instead of Cloud so that would still be a shipping win for me hahaha.
Like my only other FF experience at the moment is maybe half of of FF4 and if you asked me to make a crossover with that I'd totally put Aerith as Rosa, not because I think their personalities or roles in the plot are a particularly good fit, but because they're both the white mage character. Then again, I'd also be tempted to place Zack as Cecil instead of Cloud so that would still be a shipping win for me hahaha.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I may be wrong, but it feels to me that SE is quite ignorant of the fandom, and doesn't realise Tifa and CT's popularity, even though she trusts the top charts ahead of Aerith for years now. Some of their PR has been really questionable, and can only be understood as "Aerith is our golden child, everyone must see her like that".
Yet, they do know that Tifa sells - they priced her figurines higher than the others, and they still sold faster than the others at a con last week... yes it was an SE event. But it doesn't seem that they've grasped how much she is loved for herself and not for weird otakus. They're still in a very 90's mentality regarding Aerith and Tifa PR-wise, and that just pisses off people. Tifa fans crave Tifa merch so much that they buy literally anything with her, which means SE doesn't put any real effort on her, meanwhile Aerith gets all the goodies a year before Tifa does.
And all of that for pretty poor quality merchandising-wise, because honestly all of SE's merch is quite the rip off, IMHO.
Yet, they do know that Tifa sells - they priced her figurines higher than the others, and they still sold faster than the others at a con last week... yes it was an SE event. But it doesn't seem that they've grasped how much she is loved for herself and not for weird otakus. They're still in a very 90's mentality regarding Aerith and Tifa PR-wise, and that just pisses off people. Tifa fans crave Tifa merch so much that they buy literally anything with her, which means SE doesn't put any real effort on her, meanwhile Aerith gets all the goodies a year before Tifa does.
And all of that for pretty poor quality merchandising-wise, because honestly all of SE's merch is quite the rip off, IMHO.
eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
Actually, in DFFOO, Cloud's FR ability is Cecil.
FR ability pairs two characters that has similarity; just like Noctis with Zack & Zack with Tidus. Tifa is paired with Rem from FF Type-O. Aerith is actually with Eiko (FF9).
Shadowstorm
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Yen
That's cool! I was mostly just talking about a hypothetical scenario to drive home that the characters don't necessarily work as 1:1 stand-ins for each other though. Like Aerith not being Rosa despite sharing some tropes, and how Cloud and Zack both have traits they share with Cecil, but neither one of them is actually the same as him
eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
I've just started FF4 so Idk much of Cecil's personality.
Rosa is Rem's FR ability partner in DFFOO. So I guess. Rosa, Rem, and Tifa share similarities.
What I know is they're childhood friend of the heroes in their respective series.
Shadowstorm
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Yen
I'm still playing through it myself, I may well know less than you haha. But, wow I guess squeenix really like's the childhood friends trope, huh?
eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
Haha, can I say Noctluna & Cliji starts like Cloti but ends like Zerith?
Shadowstorm
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Yen
Since they're the most recent games I actually knew about the tragic aspect of it through osmosis. Maybe let your next couple have a happily ever after Square damn
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Speaking as an expert on FF4, I'd say Aerith fits better as Rydia, and Zack is a lot like Edge. Cecil has a lot of arc similarities to Cloud but for different reasons, and Rosa is absolutely the unflaggingly supportive childhood friend turned love interest.
It's the rest of the cast where the matchups start getting very strange, though. Like do you match Cid Highwind with Cid Pollendina or Kain Highwind because he fits archetypes of both. Where do you slot Cait/Reeve or Red?
Noctluna is odd because it ends as both Zerith and Cloti depending on if you do the original game ending or the novel ending.
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GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I really need to sit down and read the novel at some point. I’ve finished the game twice and I own the novel, but I’ve never found the time read it.
I am curious because from what I gather it was going to be the actual ending. But they canceled the DLCs leading to it.