SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I know the dates are all in a grey area when it comes to canon, but there's no denying that Cloud and Tifa plant one on each other's lips in theirs.
aeriths
Lv. 25 Adventurer
Sorry if this is too blunt, but I think it’s borderline ridiculous to even try to argue they kissed on the cheek. They look at each other’s lips and part them with a fly away camera after leaning in. Trying to zoom in on animation that was never meant to be zoomed in on and analyzed in such a way is disingenuous.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Well, yes and no. They models make contact, but they also go into each other's heads a bit, which is hidden by the usual angle the kiss is shown from. That's another way to cheat.. 3D animation is fucking fascinating and also hilarious when you peel back just a little bit.
Like Mirabelle's arms in certain scenes in Encanto, or the 3D squash and stretch in the guilty gear and dragon ball games to make stuff look a certain way without messing with focal lengths etc.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Yeah in the GC I am in someone explained what the mocaps have to do to animate a kiss, it’s really not easy xD
Maidenofwar
They/Them
No skin off my nose, I just thought it would have been cute even if the kiss had been interrupted, it would have still been a tender kiss, and romantic, considering the settings regardless. I also wanted to clarify for my part at least I genuinely thought that could happen "kiss interrupted by fireworks" since the video I watched it did seem like from the angle I saw their lips didn't meet/the angle before it zoomed away. Thanks for the recommendations, the playbacks, etc, helped.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I always expect it is really difficult to animate these kinds of scenes in any game so these kinds of camera tricks tend to be common.
Reaper3Delta
Pro Adventurer
Agreed 100% with this. If the devs wanted the kiss to be on the cheek, they could have done it the same way as Yuffie's. Crystal clear.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Yuffie's -also cheaty IIRC- cheek smooch is there to show that Cloud and Tifa is something more, something you discretion pan away from.
Like I said, if they wanted to show the scene as the kiss being interrupted, then the way they shot this scene is just about the worst possible way to do it. Everything about the scene leads you to believing their lips made contact.
If you gotta start zooming in every frame and checking if the character models are actually making contact, then you're already at Alex-Jones levels of reaching.
When it comes to things like this, you gotta be able to make your argument when playing the video at normal speeds and regular resolution. Especially since this is a video game. There ain't no zoom. For the intended audience, if you miss the scene, you gotta do another replay of the chapter. They gonna see 5 seconds of a 40-60hour game. The idea that the devs are trying to secretly pull a fast one on you here is rather absurd. And for this reason alone, I'm inclined to dismiss the idea the kiss was interrupted on the spot. This is not an equally valid alternative interpretation of the scene. This is a rabbit hole.
If you gotta start zooming in every frame and checking if the character models are actually making contact, then you're already at Alex-Jones levels of reaching.
When it comes to things like this, you gotta be able to make your argument when playing the video at normal speeds and regular resolution. Especially since this is a video game. There ain't no zoom. For the intended audience, if you miss the scene, you gotta do another replay of the chapter. They gonna see 5 seconds of a 40-60hour game. The idea that the devs are trying to secretly pull a fast one on you here is rather absurd. And for this reason alone, I'm inclined to dismiss the idea the kiss was interrupted on the spot. This is not an equally valid alternative interpretation of the scene. This is a rabbit hole.
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Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum. I've been lurking for about a week and got addicted to reading everyone's takes. I'm not necessarily a shipper, though I do appreciate the romance in FFVII (Currently I'm writing an Aerti fanfic, but that is neither here nor there). I am mostly interested in discussing the LTD and the public perception. I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just like watching as a spectator.
If it's appropriate, I'd like to ask two questions to spur discussion. I apologize if these sound repetitive:
Question 1 - If Remake part 3 does the Lifestream and Highwind scenes justice, what kind of backlash will there be from people not into the CT pairing? We've already seen the backlash in response to the CT kiss. If SE does the bare minimum of following the OG story, it seems like a large part of the fandom will just give up or leave. I don't think there will be any more room to cope. I'm curious what the devs have thought about this, how they're preparing for it, or if it's even necessary. The writers have already received death threats for the most minor takes. I wonder how they're handling this, if there's going to be 3/4 more years of this until part 3 is released. I do not envy Nojima, Nomura, and co.
I been lurking in a lot of CA spaces, and many seem utterly conviced that C and A will kiss in part 3 because "They're saving it for the next one" and because they think SE is going to balance out Tifa's kiss in some way. Others are banking on some kind of multiple ending scheme. It's a long shot they'll do multiple endings because that means more budget put towards content you needs multiple playthroughs to experience. And each individual ending would be less satisfying than one long, cohesive ending that ties everything together.
Question 2 - If C and A have some interaction in part 3, what do you think it will entail? Will there be somekind of backlash if it is ambiguously romantic? I can see C and A meeting after Aerith's "Hand of God" moment at the end of the OG. I'm thinking Cloud will feel guilty, Aerith will comfort him. There'll be some reference to the dream-date church scene or Remake resolution. Aerith will tell him to "live his life". There will definitely be some kind of intervention from Aerith in the final battle. The party will have to unlock Holy from the bowels of the planet.
I think it would be really cute if, before the Highwind scene, Aerith appears to Tifa as a ghost and they have a bonding moment. Aerith encourages Tifa to go after Cloud. I think it would be a hilarious end to their "rivalry". Just a thought.
If it's appropriate, I'd like to ask two questions to spur discussion. I apologize if these sound repetitive:
Question 1 - If Remake part 3 does the Lifestream and Highwind scenes justice, what kind of backlash will there be from people not into the CT pairing? We've already seen the backlash in response to the CT kiss. If SE does the bare minimum of following the OG story, it seems like a large part of the fandom will just give up or leave. I don't think there will be any more room to cope. I'm curious what the devs have thought about this, how they're preparing for it, or if it's even necessary. The writers have already received death threats for the most minor takes. I wonder how they're handling this, if there's going to be 3/4 more years of this until part 3 is released. I do not envy Nojima, Nomura, and co.
I been lurking in a lot of CA spaces, and many seem utterly conviced that C and A will kiss in part 3 because "They're saving it for the next one" and because they think SE is going to balance out Tifa's kiss in some way. Others are banking on some kind of multiple ending scheme. It's a long shot they'll do multiple endings because that means more budget put towards content you needs multiple playthroughs to experience. And each individual ending would be less satisfying than one long, cohesive ending that ties everything together.
Question 2 - If C and A have some interaction in part 3, what do you think it will entail? Will there be somekind of backlash if it is ambiguously romantic? I can see C and A meeting after Aerith's "Hand of God" moment at the end of the OG. I'm thinking Cloud will feel guilty, Aerith will comfort him. There'll be some reference to the dream-date church scene or Remake resolution. Aerith will tell him to "live his life". There will definitely be some kind of intervention from Aerith in the final battle. The party will have to unlock Holy from the bowels of the planet.
I think it would be really cute if, before the Highwind scene, Aerith appears to Tifa as a ghost and they have a bonding moment. Aerith encourages Tifa to go after Cloud. I think it would be a hilarious end to their "rivalry". Just a thought.
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Question 1 probably depends more on the Highwind scene. If there's choice involved, or a way to skip the scene, or any other kind of escape hatch, they'll just treat it like Tifa's Rebirth date. But we'll see. The NNs are close to retirement and give zero shits.
There will be no Aerith kiss (at least not from Cloud) and no multiple endings. These folks are on copium whippits. For all the talk about how Tifa is a losing heroine, they sure do want her scenes pretty badly.
Bitching about Aerith doing non-dead person things like interacting with Cloud is sort of my hobby, if that counts as backlash. They had plenty of time for ambiguous scenes when she was alive, no need to make Advent Children into an even bigger farce. But I'm cool with Maiden-like invisible support behind the scenes, or something tasteful like appearing to the children in the church.
There will be no Aerith kiss (at least not from Cloud) and no multiple endings. These folks are on copium whippits. For all the talk about how Tifa is a losing heroine, they sure do want her scenes pretty badly.
Bitching about Aerith doing non-dead person things like interacting with Cloud is sort of my hobby, if that counts as backlash. They had plenty of time for ambiguous scenes when she was alive, no need to make Advent Children into an even bigger farce. But I'm cool with Maiden-like invisible support behind the scenes, or something tasteful like appearing to the children in the church.
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
I imagine it'd be the same kind of backlash it's always been. I don't remember the takes off the top of my head but something something Cloud's a dude, Tifa is a slut, he was thinking of Aerith the entire time, he wants to die and go meet her, optional etc.
If by "a large part of the fandom" you mean CAs then lol. Sorry, shippers just aren't that large part of fandoms and even that part is fractured into different ships and multishippers. Most works of fiction are made for the general audience which make the bulk of the consumers. Of course, the general audience is also slightly different from fandom. As in, they're less likely to be on social media to argue about nitty-gritty stuff like LTD.
My problem with these two is that these, again, ignore the Zack of It All. He's like, actually in the game, no matter how scarcely. Why would they build up and do a ZA reunion, only to then have a romantic CA moment? Why did they bring Zack back in the first place? So he can watch his girlfriend and best friend make out? As far as I still know, Final Fantasy isn't a CW teen drama?
Well, they sort of did that already in Remake with the "follow your heart" and "Tifa runs straight to Cloud" moment. So I am hoping that they keep Aerith out of CTs intimate moments because, to be honest, it just sounds super awkward, lol. But who knows, they might do it and they might even do it well. Though, I kinda doubt it lol.
Also, welcome!
Eerie
Fire and Blood
You have to understand that the CT fandom is way, WAY larger than the CA fandom which is LOUD essentially. Look at the numbers on YT, it's no competition. And both are really SMALL compared to the rest of the fandom.
CT has always been crafted in the story; it's going to be even more obvious. I have said it, but I expect at least 2 kisses between them, none optional. They won't be able to run away from the reality. Especially since
Oh, I'm half-convinced Aerith WILL get a kiss, but with Zack instead. They are pushing CT and ZA a LOT in both Remake and Rebirth, there's no way they're going to change at last minute what they're doing.
There won't be multiple endings; and even then, in another world with no Tifa, Cloud still rejected Aerith. There are no alternate realities as we usually imagine them, there are pockets of realities within the Lifestream which represent hopes, dreams and feelings of people (oh look... it's exactly the OG LS scene, and it will be there again in p3). Aerith's world was her world of hope, dreams and feelings, but it got crushed as Cloud rejected her and she got killed by Sephiroth. Her Promised Land is, I'm pretty sure, the church where Zack stands, maybe even Zack himself (since Tifa and the kids represent Cloud's Promised Land, we can conclude that Zack himself can also be Aerith's Promised Land).
I think they will only meet at the very end, like the OG, or it won't make any sense for ACC to exist - and yes I do believe it will exist too, it is canon to the Re-trilogy. I do not think it will be romantic in any way or shape.
So that means, no interaction between Aerith and the rest of the party: we're going to have to feel her loss, from their POV.
As I said prior, I would love an Aerti interaction, but I don't think that's possible.
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