Ariadne said:
Anastar. Hi. I'm Tres. You might remember me from such posts as the one where you got called a cunt, and numerous other instances of correcting your lies.
Tres
Tres. I'm Anastar. I remember you
accusing me of lies, yes. Thing is, those "lies" are all in your imagination. Hey, if you think I've lied to you - it's your problem, not mine.
No, dear, you being a pathological liar is very much your own problem. In fact, because I'm so sick of your bullshit, I'm going to waste my time and put together all (if possible) of your lies from the past 100 pages of this thread.
I'll do that at the end of this post, though.
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
You might also remember me from that last private message I sent you, where I specifically asked that you wait until you could reply to everything I've said to you all at once -- so that we wouldn't have to continue with what basically amounts to sending messages backwards and forwards across time to one another.
Hmmm... let's look at what you actually said:
By the way, take your time responding to these and the three previous posts I sent. There's no need to rush, and I'd rather you just wait to get to them all at once. ~Tres, PM on Oct. 27
I see nothing specifically saying that I should respond to your PMs all at once.
"I'd rather you just wait to get to them all at once." I ... have no snarky follow-up. Just read the fucking sentence.
Anastar said:
To me, your PM says not to rush because I can respond to it all at once if I want to.
Canon vs. fanon, deary.
Guess where your interpretation falls.
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
In any case, since you've disregarded that request and have taken your dishonest debating tactics to absurd new depths
If you see it that way, you see it that way. Frankly, I think the situation is the reverse. The only poor and/or dishonest debating tactics I see in this thread is on the Cloti side of the fence. But whatever...
"Whatever" indeed, seeing as you won't point to any examples. In fact, generalizations is all you made in this entire post I'm responding to.
That's two posts from you to me now in which you didn't address any of the actual arguments on the table.
Anastar said:
Mostly, however, I just see insults thrown at me in an apparent effort to evade responding to me.
Like Ryu said, there might be insults in the mix, but the stew is direct response every single time.
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
So, now we're back to the relationship charts from the U20 Character guide again.
Seeing as how I haven't brought it up to you before, I don't see why not.
Ah, let's go ahead and get to one of those lies of yours right now, why don't we?:
You said:
Okay. I don't want to get into an LT debate here, so I'll respond to your paragraphs in our
Response thread.
The only thing I'll say here is that if you consider those screenshots and script to show a definite love relationship between Cloud and Tifa, then why does the 20th Anniversary Ultimania (the same book) also say there is no canon couple for FFVII?
FFVII Relationship Chart - 20th Anniversary Ultimania
In other words, SE obviously doesn't consider what you've cited to be sufficient evidence to determine which couple is canon, since Cloud and Tifa are not shown as FFVII's canon couple
in the same book's relationship chart. So why do you?
(BTW, the screenshots in
this scan are way too dark to see clearly. Is there a better scan?)
Source:
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/single/?p=294512&t=530394
That's what we (i.e. the dictionary, reality, etc.) call a lie, honey.
That's also one of your many inaccuracies (it ain't the same damn book), which I brought up in the very post you're responding to.
Oh, and don't try editing anything. I already screenshotted that shit.
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
You're going to scream from the rooftops that the "childhood friends" description on FFVII's chart tells us all there is to know about Cloud and Tifa's relationship.
No, actually I was going to ask why they're being described as "childhood friends" when you're claiming that SE has validated them as a couple?
Let's ask Wakka and Lulu. Wait, they're busy fucking. We should come back later.
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
And meanwhile, you're going to avoid the question and retreat into supposed parallels with other couples from other Final Fantasies.
And meanwhile, you're going to avoid the question and retreat into supposed parallels with other couples from other Final Fantasies.
I directly addressed the question, as I have more than once before now. I pointed out that FF couples don't have to be portrayed with "suki" arrows on charts in order to be canon.
Anastar said:
There's one big, major difference between CidxShera, DaggerxZidane, LuluxWakka, and Cloud and Tifa. The difference is that CidxShera, DaggerxZidane, and LuluxWakka have been confirmed as couples on a non-optional basis. This is not true of Cloud and Tifa, and that's why they are the supposed "exception".
This really qualifies as another lie since you're ignoring not only that the "For the One I Love" page doesn't speak of optionality, but that the entire 10th Anniversary Ultimania for FFVII doesn't speak of affection ratings, and explicitly includes the high affection version of the Highwind scene in its summary of events.
But, then, you've repeated that particular lie about the "For the One I Love" page saying everything is optional countless times in this thread, and there's no way I can hunt them all down.
Anastar said:
Focus on the commercial? I don't think so. After all, I gave you a whole essay about supporting evidence for CloudxAerith:
http://clerith.heliohost.org/ClerithEssay.htm
That essay is 6,980 words long. The total amount of words in that essay about the commercial is 247. That means that there are 6,733 words in the essay about evidence other than the commercial. So is the commercial a focus? Hardly.
You've come back to it frequently in this thread. It's a cornerstone of your claims.
As for your essay, you still owe Ryu a response about it. He paid you the courtesy of responding to that entire thing and you've not even acknowledged him.
Anastar said:
Plus, you're trying to get me to defend CloudxAerith, which I consider simply another evasion tactic from you.
There's a word called "debate" you need to look up. Defend your position.
Anastar said:
I've already said I'm here to discuss ONE thing:
The TLS article about "This Just In: The Love Triangle Debate - Over" is nothing but your opinion. There is no confirmation from SE that Cloud and Tifa are the official couple of FFVII. The FTOIL page is saying that CloudxTifa as well as CloudxAerith are optional, which is why BOTH women are shown on the FTOIL page with Cloud and why BOTH are specified as optional.
Another lie. Both aren't specified as optional on the "For the One I Love" page.
But, as said, you've stated this particular lie many times now, and I won't be able to find all the instances even if I try.
Anastar said:
I know you disagree - but I say it again because you should NOT be claiming that your opinion is fact when it has not been validated by SE.
What do you think you're doing? For that matter, you keep spouting off your opinion about the "For the One I Love" page as fact ("which is why BOTH women ..." etc.). Where's that press release from SE saying "This is why BOTH women ..." etc.?
Anastar said:
And you seem to ignore the fact that I do not care what you think about CloudxAerith. I've never claimed that CloudxAerith are canon.
LMFAO
Hang on. I'm going to need a bigger typeface.
LMFAO
That's still not big enough, but it'll have to do.
Holy shit, woman. That might be your biggest lie ever. Which I can easily prove to be a lie by closing my eyes and letting my hand fall on damn near anything you've ever posted to the Internet.
Here's a random example:
You said:
Tifa was never said to be Cloud's koibito either. Cloud only called Tifa his "nakama", but not his "koibito."
And yes, Aerith was described as Cloud's koibito here:
[Note: though it appears to be a broken image now, the quoted post contained a screenshot from the old FFVII commercial where the word "Love" pops up]
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=373882&postcount=1809
Were Aerith described as Cloud's koibito, that would make CloudxAerith canon, since we already know he's hers. You're insistent on this commercial SE had no hand in making being relevant, if not definitive.
Anastar said:
The "koibito" quote in the Reunion Files only says that Tifa is LIKE a mother and LIKE a koibito. She's not really a mother, is she? She's just LIKE one. So, she's not really a sweetheart, either.
For someone who's admitted having no knowledge of the Japanese language, you sure like to act like an expert on it. It's been explained countless times that Nomura uses three separate grammatically complete clauses in that sentence -- one in which he refers to Tifa as "like a mother," one in which he says she
is an ally in battle, and one in which he says she
is a koibito.
Here's a thorough explanation that you've probably already ignored before:
I said:
While on the subject of the word "koibito," it's been used in reference to Tifa before as well, in the Advent Children Reunion Files book (pg. 19). There, Nomura said, "There are many dimensions to Tifa's character. She's like a mother, a sweetheart [koibito], and a close ally in battle":
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/tifa-1.jpg
A more accurate translation than that printed in English in the book would be, "Various positions come together in Tifa. She's also like a mother, is also a koibito, and is also a close ally in battle."
The Japanese sentences ("Tifa wa ironna tachiba wo awase motte irun desu ne. Haha no you demo ari, koibito demo ari, isshou ni tatakatte kita senyuu demo aru") contain separate thought endings for each noun Tifa's identified as. The presence of "demo ari" -- meaning "is also" -- indicates the end to a complete thought, so Tifa is only described with "like a" for "like a mother."
"No you" -- meaning "like" -- would need to be before each use of "demo ari" in order for Tifa to also be "like a koibito" and "like a close ally in battle." She simply *is* identified as "also" ("demo") being those things.
And like Ryu asked, how the hell does it make sense to claim that she is "like an ally in battle"? That's something she plainly
is.
Convenient how you left that out of your little "like a" spiel.
Anastar said:
Furthermore, there's nothing even hinting that it has anything to do with Cloud. Cloud's name isn't used in the sentence. You're just assuming it's in reference to Cloud.
Funny that you bring up Cloud here, considering that I didn't. All I did was mention that if you had your way and "koibito" always implied mutuality, then you'd have to square with the Reunion Files quote from Nomura where he said she's someone's koibito. In which case whoever she loves would have to love her back.
But you'd never insist that "koibito" must imply mutual feelings, right?
Anyway, no, I'm not assuming shit about Cloud. I'm
reasoning that it's in reference to Cloud, which is exactly the opposite of assuming.
You won't even do as much as offer an assumption. You obstinantly refuse to even address who Tifa could be a koibito to, with this role being so significant as to be described alongside her like a mother-status to Denzel and Marlene, and her ally-status to the rest of AVALANCHE.
You know, the roles she has in the movie that the book is about.
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
You'll insist that the counterintuitive meaning you derived from a hyperbolic, misleading advertisement produced 14 years ago by the marketing department of another company's foreign subsidiary is a more insightful indication of the intentions of FFVII's developers than a score of statements to have come since from SE and the game's developers.
Keep ignoring the fact that I provided plenty of other examples from FFVII's developers that provide evidence for CloudxAerith.
Clearly I'm the one in this discussion who doesn't address the points people bring up. No, it couldn't be you, what with the not addressing the points I brought up there.
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
And you'll do all of this without even recognizing that the position you're putting forward is inconsistent with the position of neutrality and open-ended optionality that you claim to hold.
All because I'm saying that SE has left the LT up to interpretation, and that SE has yet to declare either Cloti or Clerith canon. All because I dare to disagree with your
opinion. Go figure.
I don't give a shit if you disagree with my opinion on its own count. Anyone here I've had any degree of discussion with can tell you I've admitted to being wrong plenty of times -- but that was when evidence to demonstrate that I was wrong was presented.
Were Steele still around instead of in a self-imposed exile due to repulsion at the Compilation, he could even tell you how I conceded that the Puppet Master Theory (in the years prior to AC's release, it was a popular/infamous theory that JENOVA was the one really in control, rather than Seph) was wrong. And I was a hell of a lot more emotionally invested in that theory than I am in ... well, any other fan theory the FF fandom has had, with the exception of shutting down the Rinoa=Ultimecia theory.
I didn't flail my arms and legs and hold onto the doorframe as I was dragged out into the light of truth. I said, "Oh. Well, darn. Looks like you were right, man. Congrats." I'm paraphrasing of course (I don't remember exactly how I phrased that six years ago), but those were the sentiments I expressed.
You're the one demonstrating all the characteristics described in #5 here:
http://www.cracked.com/article_1946...-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html
Anyway, let's get to that list of your other lies now.
For the record, I won't count inaccuracies about screenshots and details of the stories (e.g. when you called a direct screenshot from FFVII a photoshop; somehow missed a door in an ACC screenshot that occupied a good 20% of the frame; somehow missed a nightstand in yet another ACC screenshot; said Denzel and Marlene were at home when the Turks carried Cloud and Tifa there) as lies. These may just be you remembering things wrong or having trouble seeing.
I do hope, by the way, that those folks who left the debate after getting offended on your behalf see this and realize what a horrible person they were defending.
Anastar's lies
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
First, I've never heard Aerith referred to as Cloud's "nakama".
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=372939&postcount=1727
Why it's a lie: from the very post you were responding to there --
I said:
You're saying one can't be both someone else's nakama and their koibito? That is a huge claim you will need to substantiate. It isn't true.
Also, Aerith is called Cloud's nakama too. Off the top of my head, I know her Reunion Files profile calls her this. Seems like her 10th AU profile and the Dissidia Ultimania's "Link to the Original" section for FFVII does too.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
I said:
Anastar said:
No, Tifa calls it "your room" in CoT - not "your office" - when she tells him to go "drink in your room". Sounds like he sleeps there to me.
Tifa tells him to go drink in another room. She does not say "your room." There is no possessive article. You know this. You've been told this countless times.
Anastar said:
GLD said:
Chantara said:
Actually, no I haven't - this is the first time I've been told that. I'm beginning to think you've got me confused with someone else, especially since we always got along just fine before I came here.
Its been said multiple times in this very thread. If you have limitations that caused you to miss it, then that sucks for you. Though I am almost certain that it was said in direct replies to you at least once, so unless I am wrong that excuse is out too.
No, it hasn't been mentioned in direct replies to me before this.
Sources:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=370478&postcount=1434
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=370686&postcount=1462
Why it's a lie: you knew. I brought it up in my debate with FFG that you made sure was posted on record at CxA (you posted it there yourself).
Source:
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/topic/530757/1/
Also, Lady Lifestream mentioned it in a direct reply to you after you told her she should go read that debate:
Lady Lifestream said:
I´ve already read all those debates. ...Took me a week though. It was SO funny how he nitpicked about CoT and if Tifa and Cloud shared a room or not.
SoS: "The Japanese script says only "drink in room". It isn´t specificated if it´s his or hers."
FF_G: "Yes, but the official Englisch translation says "Drink in your room"."
Source:
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/single/?p=319976&t=531296
And I know you read her post, because the very next post in the thread is from you, with you responding to parts of that post.
Source:
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/single/?p=319986&t=531296
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
Second
In the Reunion Files, Nomura says that one of Tifa's roles is that of a koibito. Even if you refuse to admit that it's referring to Cloud, given your insistence otherwise that koibito implies mutual feelings, if Tifa's somebody's koibito, Nomura should damn well know what the status of Cloud and Tifa's relationship is.
FACT: it does not say that she's a koibito to
ANYONE. Therefore, you cannot assign that role to anyone that you want to. SE has to do that.
---------------------------------------------
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374413&postcount=1831
Why it's a lie: you have to be desired by someone to be a koibito (which means "desired person").
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---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
Not to mention you're still pointing to a scene that simply does not exist.
And which scene is this? The Low Affection version of the Highwind scene? How can you say it doesn't exist when the script for it is given in the FFVII UO? You told us that the scripts for both versions were given in the FFVII UO when you visited the CxA Forum:
What you just described is the high affection version and the low affection version. That's all there is.
Again, the Ultimania Omega (pg. 201) provides the script for both versions, and the high affection version doesn't have more than one reaction for Tifa. That one reaction is "Were you watching?" followed by crumbling to the floor. ~TresDias, Nov 20, 2009
Source:
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aer...97495&t=529440
Didn't you say that the script being available means that version is canon?
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374413&postcount=1831
Why it's a lie: quote mine (details here:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374880&postcount=1854), plus I have never said that a script existing for something makes it canon. That's fucking retarded.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
Oh, but I did find this from the FFVII UO:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...sivescenes.jpg
It's the
Impressive Scenes pages, and you forgot to mention that Aerith's death scene is there, too. You know, the part where Cloud is holding a dead Aerith in his arms and saying,
"What are we going to do?" I always thought that it would be rather weird for Cloud to say "we" to mean "Avalanche" because Avalanche didn't know about Holy until Disk Two. So it's more likely that Cloud means "me and Aerith" when he says, "we". Then there's the pic of Cloud laying Aerith into the water during the funeral. Ye know, the same pic they used in the commercial with the caption "Love" over it:
The same scene which was re-enacted in AC/ACC, so I'd say it has some significance.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374413&postcount=1831
Why it's a lie: I mentioned it nearly two years ago, and even provided a scan of the page. Also, mention of it has been in
my FFVII Plot Analysis FAQ for just as long.
You also got the book wrong. That was the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 2: Scenario guide, not the FFVII UO.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
You're ignoring two other quotes from Nomura that contradict your claim of what he said there.
Know why I'm ignoring them? You're the first person to PM those quotes to me. The only parts of this thread I read are the posts sent to me in PM. If you don't send it to me in PM, then I don't read it.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374413&postcount=1831
Why it's a lie: you've known about the Reunion Files quote for years. Easily proven in numerous ways. Most satisfying one would probably be to point to that post of yours from a couple of weeks ago where you mentioned it:
You said:
If the word "koibito" on its own does not indicate that a relationship has been established, then why do you think its use in RF means that Tifa is in a relationship?
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=370478&postcount=1434
There's also that thread at CxA where you and others discussed that first LTD essay I wrote (which talked about the RF quote):
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/topic/530394/1/
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
According to Cloti's
before the publication of CoLWhite, "koibito" always meant lover, sweetheart, boy/girlfriend - mutual attraction. Even your translator Vilaeth said so. Funny how the meaning has conveniently changed once CoLWhite got published.
I know very little about Japanese, but Vilaeth always told us that "koibito" meant the feelings were mutual. And even a simple translator tool says that it means mutual - here's the translation of koibito from Google translations:
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#ja|en|%E6%81%8B%E4%BA%BA
The first three definitions are: lover, sweetheart, paramour (lover) - all mean mutual love
That's the definition I always heard Cloti's use - including Vilaeth and Ryu - before CoLWhite got published.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=371824&postcount=1656
Why it's a lie: 'cause hito never fucking said that. Easily proven:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1217&postcount=87
Ryu also said that it can mean "beloved" prior to the publiation of that novella:
http://killthemongoose.com/tnc/index.php?topic=514.msg14735#msg14735
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
Tres said:
Anastar said:
At any rate, you are choosing the translation of "beloved" for Case of Lifestream:White out of four possible translations. "Koibito" can also mean "lover, sweetheart, boyfriend/girlfriend". Since there is no official translation, it could just as easily be translated as "Cloud is the woman's friend, lover" or "Cloud is the woman's friend, sweetheart" or "Cloud is the woman's friend, boyfriend" If any one of those translations is the official translation, then it means the feeling between Cloud and Aerith is mutual, not one-sided.
"Koibito" has a specific meaning in that it identifies someone who is desired by another. That is its meaning. It can be translated (which is to say interpreted, depending on the context) as "beloved," "lover," "girlfriend"/"boyfriend" or "sweetheart," yes -- but its actual meaning remains "one who is desired by another" and any of those other words are a translator's choice for best conveying their understanding of the context.
On its own, it doesn't inherently entail reciprocity, though. Ever. Even in the case of the Reunion Files quote, reciprocity can only be said to be entailed because of Tifa's own otherwise confirmed feelings.
Well, this quote from Vilaeth says otherwise:
Then, of course, koi--bito (Though in the Reunion Files and not the Ultimania.) I've asked several people, Japanese people who I asked in Japanese and they answered in Japanese, about this word and its usage and have never heard this 'one-sided' thing that gets tossed around. It's basically, if you hear this, people are going to assume that it's mutual and that there's two people involved there (since the word itself is talking about the object of affection, not the person doting the affection). And for Tifa, the only one who really makes any sense is Cloud.
Source: http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1217&postcount=87
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=372939&postcount=1727
Why it's a lie: it's a quote mine. The next paragraph of hito's post there is in line with exactly what I said:
hito said:
Then, of course, koi--bito
(Though in the Reunion Files and not the Ultimania.) I've asked several people, Japanese people who I asked in Japanese and they answered in Japanese, about this word and its usage and have never heard this 'one-sided' thing that gets tossed around. It's basically, if you hear this, people are going to assume that it's mutual and that there's two people involved there (since the word itself is talking about the object of affection, not the person doting the affection). And for Tifa, the only one who really makes any sense is Cloud.
Not to say that's always the case, since emotions are a subjective thing. You can think to yourself, "hey, Billy's my koibito" while Billy might be all "woah, back off woman". However, we aren't talking about what Tifa thinks herself. Because this was Nomura, talking about a fictional character in the third person.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
Nomura even said he chose to film the ending in Hawaii because the flowers surrounding the road are the same color as the flowers in Aerith's church.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=372747&postcount=1717
Anastar said:
Nomura even said they went to film that part in Hawaii because there were large fields of yellow and white flowers like the ones in Aerith's church. So Cloud is surrounded by Aerith - Tifa is nothing more than a sideline, so to speak.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=368353&postcount=1180
Anastar said:
In keeping with the notion that Cloud is in the live action world in the end, we filmed the video for the ending credits in Hawaii. There are fields of flowers on both sides of the road, and the colors - yellow and white - are the same as the flowers in Aerith's church. ~Nomura, Reunion Files, pg. 87
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=370974&postcount=1485
Why it's a lie: quote mine. Anastar ignores Nomura's full quote --
Nomura said:
In keeping with the notion that Cloud is in the live action world in the end, we filmed the video for the ending credits in Hawaii. There are fields of flowers on both sides of the road, and the colors - yellow and white - are the same as the flowers in Aerith's church.
I wanted to have the sea lying beyond the horizon, and this was the best place. The actual filming took place a year before the release. When the release got pushed back, some of us wanted to go back and film it again. Big Surprise (Laughs).
Nomura filmed in Hawaii because he wanted the sea beyond the horizon. The flowers were a coincedence they worked in.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
Ariadne said:
Anastar said:
Fact is, Aerith is always with Cloud. That was explained in Distance, when Nomura said that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud. What that means is that Cloud and Aerith are inseparable. They are like soul mates, a fact which is also demonstrated in FFVII when Cloud is able to sense Aerith's presence in the Forgotten City.
Amazing revelation straight from SE, folks! Marlene and Tifa are Aerith's other soul mates!
Along with Cloud!
'Cause they can all sense her!
Now, how's
that for a foursome?
That might be relevant if SE had shown that Marlene and Tifa could actually see Aerith like Cloud can, and if SE had shown that Marlene and Tifa could talk and touch Aerith like Cloud can, and if SE had shown that Tifa could sense Aerith's presence in the Forgotten City like Cloud did, and if SE had said that Tifa and Aerith had a special bond like Cloud and Aerith. In fact, SE said that Cloud and Aerith had a special bond that was different than Cloud and Tifa's:
Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she [Tifa] carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. ~Tifa's character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
Cloud is not alone in his ability to sense, see, hear or touch Aerith. She seems able to appear to, touch and communicate with whomever she wishes.
Kadaj sees her as he's dying, and takes her hand. Two children in the church scene at the end of AC/C see her and speak with her. Marlene senses her at the beginning of Cloud and Sephiroth's final battle. Tifa senses her at the end of the battle.
Aerith calls everyone in Edge who has a telephone for God's sake.
Also, in the staff commentary on the Japanese AC DVD, Nomura thought of including the scene where Tifa senses Aerith's presence to demonstrate "the link between Tifa and Aerith"?:
http://ffviinovels.lhyeung.net/ffacinfo/commentary.php
So they have a special bond too.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Anastar said:
Nomura: I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and loves for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day. ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Playstation 2007
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=370974&postcount=1485
Why it's a lie: quote mine, wrong magazine and wrong year. Full quote contains two more lines: "Its relation to the church scene is.... Yeah. I'll leave this to everyone's imagination. (laughs)"
It was actually said by Nomura in the issue of Famitsu PS2 released on October 24, 2003, and is not a post-AC/C quote as Anastar has tried to peddle it for years. The quote came about a month after the 2003 Tokyo Game Show trailers that unveiled AC's existence to the world, and at the time Nomura said that, the only church scene we had been shown was Cloud walking through the pews. In the released film, we learned that this is the scene where Cloud finds Tifa after she has been beaten by Loz. It's also one of the appearances by the wolf that symbolizes Cloud's feelings of guilt.
That was the undying feeling Nomura was talking about: guilt. The wolf appears in that scene.
Sources:
http://ff7ac.hotcafe.to/magazine/magazine03.html
http://www.enterbrain.co.jp/product/.../03003520.html
Japanese text of the quote:
Nomura said:
エアリスはかつてともに旅をした仲間で、受け手側の皆さんにも、それぞれの愛情や想いがあると思います。この物語のクラウドも、エアリスに対して、いまもなお死なぬ想いは あると・・・・。この教会の場面との関係は・・・・・うーん。このあたりは皆さんのご想像におまかせします（笑）。
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Anastar said:
In addition, Cloud had also gone away to the church that Aerith had been in. The thing which [Tifa] is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith. ~Tifa's character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=370974&postcount=1485
Why it's a lie: another quote mine. The rest of the quotation explains that Tifa's complicated feelings stem from Aerith being related to Cloud's guilt and self-isolation:
Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world. This was due to the fact that Cloud, succumbing to the notion that Aerith’s death was his fault and condemning himself, construed that Denzel was “the child which Aerith brought here” and took care of him. In addition, Cloud had also gone away to the church that Aerith had been in. The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith.
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And I'm tired now, and hungry. I have to give up.
I must admit, Anastar, you finally found a way to beat me. I can't keep track of all the lies you've told.
EDIT: Added some more. Still can't keep up with them all, though.
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Anastar said:
Quexinos said:
And why are we saying for sure that Cloud and Tifa have separate bedrooms? Did someone prove that Cloud sleeps in his office yet?
I didn't say they had separate bedrooms for sure.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=375307&postcount=1897
Why it's a lie: you've said that many times --
You said:
Sorry, I don't consider a story summary to be enough evidence. It needs to happen in the actual game or movie or novella before I believe it. The trouble with your story summary evidence is that what happens in the game/movie/novella can contradict what you accept as canon, such as Cloud having a separate bedroom.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=370228&postcount=1407
You said:
And like I said before, your idea of "canon" is contradicted by other things, such as quotes in both the U20 on page 232 and on page 198 in the FFVIIUO where it says that the story diverges into two conditions according to Tifa's affection level with Cloud. It's also contradicted by things such as Cloud and Tifa having separate bedrooms in CoT, and Tifa not knowing whether Cloud loves her in CoT.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=368353&postcount=1180
You said:
I said nothing about rejection. I said that they don't have interest in one another romantically. That's backed up by things like Cloud sleeping in a separate room and being invited into the family by Marlene.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=373637&postcount=1788
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Anastar said:
TLS presents absolutely no perspective on the LTD from the Clerith point of view. Yet, TLS calls itself a neutral site for all fans.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374846&postcount=1850
Why it's a lie: because there is a Clerith-based LTD analysis on the site --
http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/6218/now-for-something-new-user-submitted-editorials/
TLS accepts user-submitted editorials.
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Anastar said:
Quexinos said:
Okay so
According to Cloti's before the publication of CoLWhite, "koibito" always meant lover, sweetheart, boy/girlfriend - mutual attraction. Even your translator Vilaeth said so. Funny how the meaning has conveniently changed once CoLWhite got published.
Did you mean sometimes here instead of always? That's a pretty big difference in word choice. And the last line seems to say you're ragging on Hito for flip flopping which he never did.
Anastar said:
And how dare you say I was ragging on Hito? How can I be ragging on Hito when I'm agreeing with him?!?
Where exactly did I say that Hito flip flopped? All I quoted was Hito saying that the meaning of "koibito" is usually "lover, sweetheart" or "boy/girlfriend".
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374846&postcount=1850
Why it's a lie: it's right there in the portion quoted by Quexinos. Anastar had said this about hito (he used to go by "Vilaeth"): "According to Cloti's before the publication of CoLWhite, 'koibito'
always meant lover, sweetheart, boy/girlfriend -
mutual attraction. Even your translator Vilaeth said so. Funny how the meaning has conveniently changed once CoLWhite got published."
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Anastar said:
For your information, it was Quex who kept translating the word "tanpaku" as "apathetic". I always said that "candid" made more sense.
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374413&postcount=1831
Why it's a lie: Que explained why herself better than I could --
Quexinos said:
Okay, now in all seriousness Anastar, what did I do to you to deserve being on the other end of your lies? I've been trying to help you and you here and you go and tell a lie about me? Maybe you're trying to attack my credibility with translations and... well you don't need to, we all know I suck at it
Look here:
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aer...23113&t=531419
When I posted
TRES's translation saying it was "candid" and ends short, you said "I disagree, I've always seen apathetic."
So this
For your information, it was Quex who kept translating the word "tanpaku" as "apathetic". I always said that "candid" made more sense.
Is a lie. And you're using CHIBICA's translation of that line BTW, not mine.
Afterwards I even said to you:
Actually I didn't do these translations, I think Tres did. But the word used for "apathetic" or "candid" is tanpaku, which is basically a way of saying it's indifferent, plain or simple, so really I think either word works. It's blah, I think is the point 
http://www.nihongodict.com/w/57740/tanpaku/
Full topic here:
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/topic/531419/1/
Source:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showpost.php?p=374421&postcount=1833
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