The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

Max Payne · May 10, 2009

That's silly, there's no shipping in any of those games.

Makoeyes987 · May 10, 2009

Well Cloud and Aerith DO have significance with each other. But none of their cameos say they're lovers. The fact is, is that they ARE close and important to each other. It'd be stupid to say they weren't.

And one of the most memorable scenes in FFVII is Cloud getting a flower from Aerith. Aerith is the first woman we meet in FFVII. So yeah. Cloud and Aerith are two very important characters in FFVII.

Zee · May 10, 2009

Dacon said:
That's silly, there's no shipping in any of those games.

There's no shipping in Kingdom Hearts?

Makoeyes987 · May 10, 2009

No, there isn't. Not regarding Cloud and Aerith at least.

Zee · May 10, 2009

Ahahaha.

So people can ONLY ship what's canon am I hearing this right?

Max Payne · May 10, 2009

No, there's just no shipping in the games themselves.

Makoeyes987 · May 10, 2009

If its going to be actual pairing grounded in fact, yes. This entire thread is about the debate between what the legitimate pairing is. Sorry I assumed we were talking about people trying to legitimately say Cloud and Aerith are together in KH. :monster:

Zee · May 10, 2009

Mako Eyes said:
If its going to be actual pairing grounded in fact, yes. This entire thread is about the debate between what the legitimate pairing is. Sorry I assumed we were talking about people trying to legitimately say Cloud and Aerith are together in KH.

No, because if had actually read what I typed, I said nothing in any of those games was serious proof of anything, it was fanservice for Cloud/Aeris fans to see their favorite couple onscreen since they can't any longer in the FF7 universe.

And I forgive you.

Eerie · May 10, 2009

I personally don't see why Cloud and Tifa would have to be intimate in front of the others. That's quite annoying, to assume that every couple would do that; especially when, if you down Cloud and Tifa's personalities, it doesn't look like they'd be like that in front of people - when they are together, yes, but in front of people?

Aside from that, the movie is not a romance movie. She sends Cloud take back the kids - that's the only time when they're together and she's busy getting him back on track lol, with Rude and Reno right there or outside the room :wacky:

I may add that Reno and Rude made my bf laugh - getting out the room like that when Tifa had a go at Cloud, he was like, what the fuck are they doing? Me: "they're letting the couple argue in peace :monster:

"

Zee · May 10, 2009

That's quite annoying, to assume that every couple would do that; especially when, if you down Cloud and Tifa's personalities, it doesn't look like they'd be like that in front of people - when they are together, yes, but in front of people?

We're not talking about them having a make out session in front of everyone. Couples usually share a certain amount of physical intimacy, most of the time subtle - a touch on the small of the back when coming up to them, for example. It's a minor thing, but it's a very couple-ish move.

Eerie · May 10, 2009

And then, you have people like me and my bf who work together - but if it's people who weren't told so, they would never guess we're like that. Same with friends who often comment how hard it is to see us lovey-dovey - although that stuff happens, just when there's only the both of us :monster:

See my point?

I think it's even more the case with parents who have to be careful in front of their kids XD

Also, to come back to FF7, I'd like to point out that it's most likely according to CoT that Cloud and Tifa DO share a room:

After checking that Cloud was asleep, she spoke to him.
[...]
Tifa waited for his answer, though she couldn’t hear it even if she waited until the morning.

There's just no other way to interpret this. Cloud is sleeping in his bed and is not surprised that Tifa is beside him asking him such an odd question? That just does not compute with Tifa's character

I Am Not Me · May 10, 2009

Syneiam said:
There's just no other way to interpret this. Cloud is sleeping in his bed and is not surprised that Tifa is beside him asking him such an odd question? That just does not compute with Tifa's character

I'd also like to point out how this connects to how Cloud wakes up in AC/C after Reno and Rude saved them. He almost automatically looks beside him, like he always wakes up that way. :monster:

Fairheartstrife · May 10, 2009

Ok, let's take into account that the story isn't a romance story, regardless of how much we'd all love it to be. I'm gonna use a quote that Gillian Anderson used back in her X-Files days (yeah, I know I'm a geek) but it's relevant. In regards to lack of intimate scenes with Mulder and Scully she replied with the comment that: Their relationship was deeper, and on a level that was beyond the physical. they shared a bond wherein a simple touch on the hand was as intimate as a kissing scene for any other couple.

Intimacy doesn't mean fucking. In fact Cloud touches Tifa more than he touches ANYONE else in ALL of compilation, so I guess I'm curious as to where there's a lack of intimacy. For someone as reserved as Cloud that hand to cheek caress he gives Tifa iis a make-out scene. Give me ONE example of him tenderly touching/stroking/holding Aerith. (Aside from when she *grk* dies that is.)

Zee · May 10, 2009

Well, I don't want to get too personal here (so I'll keep this example with Cloud and Tifa in mind), but usually after a couple has sex they are far more comfortable around each other physically. So if Cloud and Tifa are already sleeping together by CoT, you'd think there would be some sign of it. Tifa is a warm person -- when given the chance I don't see why she wouldn't take advantage of being closer to Cloud. And while Cloud tends to be a dope when it comes to romance, he does try.

My roundabout way of saying I don't think they got it on til post-AC~

Channy · May 10, 2009

Also the sign of physical intimacy doesn't need to be in just AC/C. There could have been something in CoT, such as something simple as handholding. I find the "Cloud smiles at Tifa and blushes" thing very vague and kind of a dumb reason that they're together. Cloud smiles at a lot of people.. and it's easier to write that he blushes rather than try and rosy up his cheeks in the game/movie.

But I'm a sucker for all sorts of romantic gestures, so while I ship Clorith, I wouldn't mind an affectionate moment between Cloti in the movie. Just no kissing. CGI kisses haven't done it for me ever since TunaxTidus and that Spring scene. CGI kissing is just soo... awkward. :monster:

Alessa Gillespie · May 10, 2009

There's also the fact that in ACC, they were sort of going through a rough patch, and extending an affectionate hand from either side may have felt rude to the other, so they didn't. Cloud is a very messed up kid, so I can see why Tifa never really kissed or hugged him in the movie, because he's going through a very rough patch.

Edit: You didn't like Ashe and Rasler's kiss in FFXII? I thought it was gorgeous, personally. :monster:

Fairheartstrife · May 10, 2009

McChanny said:
Also the sign of physical intimacy doesn't need to be in just AC/C. There could have been something in CoT, such as something simple as handholding.

How about when he holds her as she cries? Or the fact that having her in his bedroom in the middle of the night is commonplace?

I find the "Cloud smiles at Tifa and blushes" thing very vague and kind of a dumb reason that they're together. Cloud smiles at a lot of people.. and it's easier to write that he blushes rather than try and rosy up his cheeks in the game/movie.

Uhm, WHEN does Cloud smile at a lot of people. Examples, please. And that blush can't be taken lightly. Cloud doesn't blush for Aerith. Ever in my recollection. It's a physical and emotional response.

But I'm a sucker for all sorts of romantic gestures, so while I ship Clorith, I wouldn't mind an affectionate moment between Cloti in the movie. Just no kissing. CGI kisses haven't done it for me ever since TunaxTidus and that Spring scene. CGI kissing is just soo... awkward.

And very well one of the reasons they didn't do it. It's awkward, and unnecessary. There are romantic gestures. He stands by her side ALL DAY to make sure she's ok. Listen to his breathing on the track--yes, really. There's a moment when he checks on her that it changes. Specifically. (I will find the US voice actors comments on that.) When she gets on Fenrir, the way she holds him is comfortable, familiar. He has no hesitation in picking her up in the church. There is a reason he holds her like that--it's a call back (go look that up if you don't know what it means).

I could keep going, but I get the feeling it's just gonna go over heads.

Zee · May 10, 2009

How about when he holds her as she cries?

Doesn't he grab her shoulder? That's hardly holding a love who is crying.

Cloud doesn't blush for Aerith. Ever in my recollection. It's a physical and emotional response.

You can't see a blush on blocky polygons, but when Aeris says "goodnight Cloud," he scratches the back of his head and says "Oh boy...", I always assumed him to be blushing by the way he acted there.

Fairheartstrife · May 10, 2009

Zee said:
Doesn't he grab her shoulder? That's hardly holding a love who is crying.

Hardly a grab: "She felt Cloud’s hand on her shoulder. He was holding onto her firmly as if he didn’t want her to go anywhere." Uhm, yeah, that's romantic.

You can't see a blush on blocky polygons, but when Aeris says "goodnight Cloud," he scratches the back of his head and says "Oh boy...", I always assumed him to be blushing by the way he acted there.

He actually says "Oh, man" and that could easily be taken as "Oh, man, crazy chick flirting with me. Oh man, i need to get out of here. Oh man, Tifa's gonna kill me..." I can go on.

And show me where he ever romantically touches/blushes for Aerith.

Channy · May 10, 2009

Fairheartstrife said:
Uhm, WHEN does Cloud smile at a lot of people. Examples, please. And that blush can't be taken lightly. Cloud doesn't blush for Aerith. Ever in my recollection. It's a physical and emotional response.

Cloud smiles at Zack an awful lot in CC. I'd say Clack is moar canon that Cloti judging the affection meter on smiles. :monster:

He stands by her side ALL DAY to make sure she's ok. Listen to his breathing on the track--yes, really. There's a moment when he checks on her that it changes. Specifically. (I will find the US voice actors comments on that.)

wat?

When she gets on Fenrir, the way she holds him is comfortable, familiar. He has no hesitation in picking her up in the church. There is a reason he holds her like that--it's a call back (go look that up if you don't know what it means).

I'd say Tifa holds onto him so she doesn't fall off. :wacky:

And when he rushed to her side in the church, yeah he was worried because she was injured. I wouldn't expect him to just glance at her and walk away from her. Hardly a romantic gesture that he's holding her when she's injured.

Zee said:
You can't see a blush on blocky polygons, but when Aeris says "goodnight Cloud," he scratches the back of his head and says "Oh boy...", I always assumed him to be blushing by the way he acted there.

That, pretty much.

Plus the way when Aerith bounces on her heels with her hands behind her back, I always thought it was a playful flirty gesture/inspection to see if he's blushing.

Zee · May 10, 2009

Hardly a grab: "She felt Cloud’s hand on her shoulder. He was holding onto her firmly as if he didn’t want her to go anywhere."

Right, he was holding onto her shoulder.

He actually says "Oh, man" and that could easily be taken as "Oh, man, crazy chick flirting with me. Oh man, i need to get out of here. Oh man, Tifa's gonna kill me..." I can go on.

If you want to over analyze a simple gesture made by a guy who was being hit on by a hot chick, sure.

Plus the way when Aerith bounces on her heels with her hands behind her back, I always thought it was a playful flirty gesture/inspection to see if he's blushing.

I thought so too. Doesn't she ask him that at one point? XD;

Strangelove · May 10, 2009

He strokes Aerith's face like he does Tifa's in CC, doesn't he?

Granted, she was dead at the time.

Don't know how much subtle emotion you can read from blocky Lego people, though.

Fairheartstrife · May 10, 2009

McChanny said:
Cloud smiles at Zack an awful lot in CC. I'd say Clack is moar canon that Cloti judging the affection meter on smiles.

I buy Clack way before Clerith.

wat?

Disregard until I can find that interview. I like to have facts and not "I assume, because polygons can't blush..." arguments.

I'd say Tifa holds onto him so she doesn't fall off. And when he rushed to her side in the church, yeah he was worried because she was injured. I wouldn't expect him to just glance at her and walk away from her. Hardly a romantic gesture that he's holding her when she's injured.

Did you see the way she gets off Fenrir? Falling off is not a concern. This isn't actors, people. These scenes are designated, designed and laid out for specific purposes. On that note, see: Callback.

That, pretty much.

Plus the way when Aerith bounces on her heels with her hands behind her back, I always thought it was a playful flirty gesture/inspection to see if he's blushing.

So, she flirts. He doesn't flirt back. Ever. You can, however, comment "Next to you who wouldn't..." to Tifa and thus immediately establish physical intimacy in the game and have it be "canonz" and not "I assume".

Fairheartstrife · May 10, 2009

Zee said:
Right, he was holding onto her shoulder.

And where does it say she's back-to?

If you want to over analyze a simple gesture made by a guy who was being hit on by a hot chick, sure.

Isn't that what you are doing? Assuming a lot given a very little. Pixelated Cloud was blushing? Prove it. Was flirting? Prove it. Prove that his "Oh, man," wasn't one of "Aw, crap."

**still waiting for Clerith proofs**

Zee · May 10, 2009

I like to have facts and not "I assume, because polygons can't blush..." arguments.

They can't nor do they have detailed facial expressions, so they have over exaggerated gestures to make up for it. Tifa does a playful shimmy, Aeris always bends forward, Cloud scratches behind his head, Barret has RAGEHANDS, etc.

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