The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Zee]

Cloud and Tifa are official pre-AC and post-AC. What are you talking about?

Cloud and Tifa talk about their feelings under the Highwind, right? This is pretty much the first time Tifa's been upfront about her feelings towards Cloud. However there's not much time to do anything about it as they have to fight Sephiroth.

In CoT, they start to live together. Cloud says that the way they will be together is "different" this time, implying the friendship they had before will become something more. But because of his own nagging self doubts, he causes a rift between himself and Tifa just as they should be getting closer. He leaves.

AC shows Cloud dealing with the demons he had that prevented him from fully living out his life with Tifa and the kids.

Hence, I don't think they are an established, stable couple till post-AC.

 

[Eerie]

You know - in case you didn't notice - even though I see Clerith as a cute pairing, I simply cannot fathom it for the pure fact that... it's NOT Cloud. Clerith happens in Disc One - the only time where the player can chose his feelings. Which means, for example, that my parties were never clerith, and others' were never cloti This is, for me, the biggest leap in clerith - the fact that they interacted only in ACC with Cloud's true self - and then, he calls her Mother

The only interesting hint that you can gather from Disc One:
-you can never be as mean to Tifa as you can be to Aerith
-your quotes to Tifa/relatives to Tifa can be much more romantic/flirty that what Cloud ever says with Aerith.
And that's it. That's the only hint that's dropped when it comes to the true Cloud, but even then, it's still the player choice to use that or not. So, it's basically irrelevant

Also, Cloud leaves before ACC like, 15 days at most before the beginning. And he leaves to find a cure for Denzel. He's not such an ass. It's when Geostigma hits him that he drifts away.

 

[MissSugar]

Cloud and Tifa are official pre-AC and post-AC. What are you talking about?

Yes they are. Cloud's story started with Tifa after all and it ended with Tifa! Aerith was in there for like..what? 3 weeks? And Cloud wasn't even himself. Hell, he didn't even remember his promise etc. The real Cloud came back after the lifestreamscene and so did his feelings for Tifa. Just like he said "Nothing has changed at all".
Plus, Zack and Aerith are shown equally to Cloud..I don't see any romance there

 

[Zee]

You know - in case you didn't notice - even though I see Clerith as a cute pairing, I simply cannot fathom it for the pure fact that... it's NOT Cloud. Clerith happens in Disc One - the only time where the player can chose his feelings.

The player can't choose his feelings in AC when he refuses to choose either girl over the other in terms of which is more important to him.

 

[Eerie]

Yes, don't forget Zack and Denzel and Marlene, alright? Nothing is not important doesn't mean that he's in love with all of them. ._.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

No, I gave an extremely simple example of Cloud using his embarrassed pose as he is being hit on by a chick. If somehow thinking he was blushing out of embarrassment is such a giant leap of faith, then that's your problem and not mine.

You're free to interpret that any way you want, kid. I simply said prove it. You can't.

You asked me for something completely fucking retarded was my point in showing you that.

No, you whined that polygons were too hard to decipher due to limited facial expressions, etc. (although Cloti has an assload of dialogue/gestures/scenes to back it up IN game...polygons and all) so I offered up novellas and AC as picking grounds. Neither place is "completely fucking retarded" considering the arguments I've encountered before. So, you're one of the few Cleriths that doesn't subscribe to "Spirit!sex/love" Yay, you! **hands cookie**

Nothing. I have none. I'm only here because I hate myself.

There's counseling for that.

My argument is that Cloud/Tifa are not truly official until after AC, since as they were still trying to establish being a couple in CoT Cloud ran off like a wussy boy.

Prove it. Prove they didn't have mad rabbit sex in the two years we don't see them. Prove they never shared intimate moments. Again, the creators already stated that Tifa was hurt--as any woman would be left by a man--thus stating the relationship implicitly. There is no need to wait until Post-AC, there simply IS Cloud x Tifa from before the game on.

Also, that Cloud's feelings for Aeris are comparable to his feelings for Tifa, at least for a time, since the character himself thinks it's stupid to choose one over the other.

Bwuahahahah. No. **wipes eyes** Cloud never feels for Aerith what he feels for Tifa. It's not even the same ballpark. And there's no choice to be made. Cloud made it BEFORE we start playing the game. jhc.

 

[Zee]

Cloud never feels for Aerith what he feels for Tifa. It's not even the same ballpark. And there's no choice to be made. Cloud made it BEFORE we start playing the game. jhc.

Right, so when Cloud sizes up in his head the people that are most important to him when asked, and he says that it's pitiful to choose one over the other, we should ignore him because it's not what you think!

So, you're one of the few Cleriths that doesn't subscribe to "Spirit!sex/love" Yay, you! **hands cookie**

I'm just such a special fucking snowflake, I know. ;3

Prove they didn't have mad rabbit sex in the two years we don't see them

PROVE THAT THEY DID PLOX

 

[Eerie]

Again, the bonds are all different. All those characters are important to him - it doesn't mean he loves them all romantically. Aerith = special friend, mother, Tifa = koibito - that's her ROLE in AC/ACC let's not forget - Denzel and Marlene = family, kids, Zack = special friend - I didn't play BC, so I won't extend my POV on this one.

No one is not important, yet, they're all different. What's hard to understand? It's just how Cloud works. Heroes are ALWAYS like that - putting friendship AND love on equal foot because they don't want to lose anything, it's what makes them WHOLE.

 

[I Am Not Me]

The player can't choose his feelings in AC when he refuses to choose either girl over the other in terms of which is more important to him.

Er, what?

Cloud isn't the player anymore. He's the real Cloud. And AC isn't about him choosing either girl. In fact, it's not even about either girl. It's about his guilt. His past. He's battling with his past and his memories and geostigma. These became the center of his life in AC.

What, GeostigmaxCloudxGuilt is the new LT now? I say Cluilt is canon then.

 

[ShuShu]

Lol. Still no proof of Cleris in anything I see. (Even in AU Games, if you ask me.)

You'know. The lack of physical contact thing, there IS a specific reason, besides the cultural differences between affection. That, and wether you decide to interpret the Highwind scene as Risque or not, is up to you, the original version was much, much more extreme, and the original script had alittle mouth to mouth life-saving fun with Cloud and Tifa, also.

I've had plenty of girlfriends, and I dont show public affection. Its a different story when we are alone, but in public, is there a NEED to hold hands and show EVERYONE that we are together? I'm not that insecure. It is also cultural in a sense. The most loveydovey couple we see in the FF's are either SquallXRinoa, or YunaXTidus, SR get a HUG, and YT get a kiss, and Tidus looks *EXTREMELY FRICKEN* surprised when he gets Yuna's little confession at the end. WHY? They KISSED didnt they!? That means they are in love RIGHT!? *Explodes*

Simple answer, physical or romantic affection isnt always the start or signal of anything, sometimes they are just pure emotions, sometimes instincts or desires. Its a fantasy game but the people making them arent fairy unicorns, their ARE real life elements in it. What doesnt change, sex or not, is that Cloud and Tifa have strong feelings for eachother, that wether they are aware of it, or are, are stronger than for any other person, ever shown throughout the compilation.

That and I've seen plenty of physical interaction to call Cloud and Tifa a couple. In LO/CC FACE STROKING. SRSLY. Then *RIGHT after he loving does that, with his dorky little crush on her, he gets vegitized, so we can assume that when real Cloud, becomes real Cloud, where would those emotions have gone, exactly? thin air? Nooooooooooo. They ARE in the game for a *reason*, Im sure SE just didnt wanna fuck with us.

The first time we see Aerith, you have the option to tell her to gtfo, or buy a flower, which you then have NO OPTION to keep and give it to either Tifa, or Marlene.
The first time we see Tifa, Barrets dialogue of "Wanna meet your little baby?" was rather INTERESTING.
Wether you give the flower to her or to Marlene, the dialogue of "A flower? for me? Oh Cloud you shouldnt have!" "No big" Still goes on, assuming that the actual outcome was that of, Giving it to Tifa. (Since giving it to Marlene is just a way to date Barret >D)
Then, right as we see her, you have the option to flirt with her, as she gets you pretty damn drunk, you then see a flashback of their promise, in childhood, and then the next morning, still more options to flirt with her, and somehow they're relationship is that of the towns 'gossip' and 'juicy information' I wonder why.

So right from the start of the game, Cloud and Tifa seem the more logical conclusion, the entire way through Aerith and Cloud's first meeting, of actually knowing her, you have the option to be SO MEAN. Calling her a slum drunk, telling her your not interested in talking to her, and to add onto it all, he tells her to GO HOME, at least 3 seperate times, while he goes on in pursuit of Tifa, whom he then crossdresses in order to save. And no, it isnt so he can protect Aerith, Cloud isnt a douchebag. "Well...If its the only way..." Tifa is the priority here.

Also, when we get to see Tifa, it looks like she leans in, her hand is up, as though under his chin, and she jumps up excitedly. Seriously. I never saw any Clerithy proofs in FF7, LO, CC, AC, ACC, DC, Novella's, Itadaki street (Which dont let Cleris lie to you, there are *MORE* ingame scenes with Cloud, and Tifa, and their interaction is that of a much cuter/romantic level, if you ask me.) Tactics (Are you serious?) KH, KH2, or Erghiez (SPWTF!!)

If any Clerith's would like to call me out and show me some, I'd love that. I really would. I always saw the Clerith relationship as secondhand, optional, transparent, and fabricated beyond the point of straining Clouds actual character to fit it. (I know, I know, I'm an ass.)

 

[Zee]

People are constantly asking what Cloud thinks, definitive proof of how Cloud feels, and when he sizes up the three things that are dearest to his heart: Aeris, Zack, and his family - he thinks it's stupid to try and measure out how much he felt for one over the other.

A lot of the LTD is centered around, "Well, prove he liked her more!" and when asked directly he thinks it's a stupid question. That should say a lot right there about how he felt.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Right, so when Cloud sizes up in his head the people that are most important to him when asked, and he says that it's pitiful to choose one over the other, we should ignore him because it's not what you think!

That? You're gonna run with "There's nothing I don't cherish!" as your argument that he holds them all equal? Ok, sure... Because that's totally the message there. **sigh** Catching the obvious isn't your strong suit, eh?

I'm just such a special fucking snowflake, I know. ;3

Sure, why not?

PROVE THAT THEY DID PLOX

Ok, there's the Tifa in Cloud's bedroom thing (he's unsurprised to be talking to her in the middle of the night, and one could assume they are sharing a bed), there's the Highwind scene, the creator's statement that the original scene was them fucking in the Chocobo stable, Cid's comments to Barret... I could argue endlessly that it's inferred but you'd probably want pictures and statements, so I can't "prove" it in the sense you seem to require. But it's a hell of a lot more likely than them NOT touching one another after all they went through and all of compilation and Cloud's "It'll be different this time" statement.

But go ahead. Keep the pink blinders on.

 

[null.]

Prove it. Prove they didn't have mad rabbit sex in the two years we don't see them.

Are you really asking someone to prove a negative?

 

[Zee]

But go ahead. Keep the pink blinders on.

Because I've clearly been denying Cloud/Tifa ever had romantic feelings for each other, and my last posts have ONLY been about how much Aeris was the only center of Cloud's world! Goddamn, my pink Cleristhy ness is so blinding, thank you for helping me.

And thank you for basically admitting you have no real evidence of them sleeping together.

That? You're gonna run with "There's nothing I don't cherish!" as your argument that he holds them all equal? Ok, sure... Because that's totally the message there.

And once again I just have to say WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

If you wanna dig your heels in and be a stubborn jackass about it, far be it from me to stop you. God forbid Cloud cherishes Aeris on the same level he does Tifa. I mean, if you admit that, everything will be retconned! Cloud will commit suicide, Tifa will marry Reno, and Reeve will ride chocobos over rainbows with Barret!

Are you really asking someone to prove a negative?

She likes to ask me many silly things.

 

[null.]

Prove you all don't owe me a million dollars.

Do it now! [/Ahnold voice]

 

[Zee]

Prove you all don't owe me a million dollars.

Do it now! [/Ahnold voice]

I-I....

D:

I guess I'll get to writing that check now.

 

[Strangelove]

The deer are teal in these parts.

As much as the Cloti in me would love to see that, and I would, it wouldn't fit in with the rest of the end scene. The look they exchange is pretty sweet all on its own, however, and quite romantic, in my opinion.

They could have always added another, different scene after it

 

[I Am Not Me]

I mean, if you admit that, everything will be retconned! Cloud will commit suicide, Tifa will marry Reno, and Reeve will ride chocobos over rainbows with Barret!

You know, I read a fanfic like that somewhere.

 

[null.]

The deer are teal in these parts.

Sorry, I get carried away with that extra sentence sometimes.

They could have always added another, different scene after it

How do you know they haven't? Have you been peeking?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Are you really asking someone to prove a negative?

Yes. When the contention is that the couple in question has no physical interaction, I want proof on how they know this given the established history that implicitly implies that they DO.

Proving a negative isn't impossible.

As for owing you a million dollars. Well, I've never met you, don't know you from Adam nor you me, and by that very BASIC logic, I've proven that I don't owe you a million dollars because I don't know who YOU are and vice versa. Wasn't that hard.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Because I've clearly been denying Cloud/Tifa ever had romantic feelings for each other, and my last posts have ONLY been about how much Aeris was the only center of Cloud's world! Goddamn, my pink Cleristhy ness is so blinding, thank you for helping me.

And thank you for basically admitting you have no real evidence of them sleeping together.

And once again I just have to say WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

If you wanna dig your heels in and be a stubborn jackass about it, far be it from me to stop you. God forbid Cloud cherishes Aeris on the same level he does Tifa. I mean, if you admit that, everything will be retconned! Cloud will commit suicide, Tifa will marry Reno, and Reeve will ride chocobos over rainbows with Barret!



She likes to ask me many silly things.

Many silly things? You like to exaggerate a bit, no?

Sweetie, I don't have the patience for name calling. You don't like my arguments, fine. Stop replying, especially if you're gonna get all pissy about it. And yes, pink blinders because anyone that thinks Aerith is on the same level with Tifa has elevated Aerith through some rose colored lenses.

Aerith is important to Cloud, no one, least of all me is saying otherwise, but Tifa she's not.

 

[Zee]

And yes, pink blinders because anyone that thinks Aerith is on the same level with Tifa has elevated Aerith through some rose colored lenses.

Cloud's goggles must be rose colored, then!

And I'll call it like I see it, dahling~ :3

 

[Fairheartstrife]

And I'll call it like I see it, dahling~ :3

Obviously.

Not as creators intended or anything of that ridiculous nature.

 

[Zee]

Obviously.

Not as creators intended or anything of that ridiculous nature.

They just put words in characters mouths for no reason, it's crazy!

 

[Ryushikaze]

I don't understand the 'it wasn't a romance story' argument. That doesn't change their supposed relationship as a couple. It doesn't mean Cloud should be averse to giving Tifa a peck on the cheek or any other gesture of intimacy.

I'm with Dacon, and believe SE were deliberately being coy to avoid upsetting certain quarters of their fanbase.

Bah, FFIV:TA and FF10-2 don't have a whole hell of a lot of physical intimacy from its established couples, Ce/Ro, Yan/Wif, Wak/Lu, etc.
And all three of those couples are couples we KNOW have had sex as they all have had kids.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Cecil and Rosa also lacking in affection through most of the game? Then there's also the fact they aren't in an LTD and Cecil never lost his mind, but whatever. Perhaps Squeenix just didn't want to shove a couple down some people's throats and have an unhappy fanbase?

Actually, Cec/Ros/Kan WAS an LT. It was largely why Kain could be controlled. That LT also had the 'loser' leaving the gang to be alone while the pair lived together, only to return to help them in another time of crisis, come to think of it.

I don't buy this whole, "SE Is just doing it not to upset our feelings", if they intended canon, then they should stick by it. Again, it's ridiculous to go to the lengths of having a couple live under the same roof raising kids and then say, "Well, they don't wanna make it too obvious, they might hurt someone's feelings".

also I never played FF4, so that whole comparison is wasted on me. : D

AND FOR THAT, YOU MUST BE PUNISHED.

Anyways, Zee, just because they're a troubled relationship, it doesn't mean they aren't in a relationship pre-AC. Real couples have their ups and downs, and their crises. Hell, just look at Wakka and Lulu in 10-2 (who are quite an excellent analogue. The utter dork and the intelligent babe pairing. Come to think of it, that's Steiner/Bea and Lag/Rai too.) and his panic and freakout during 10-2.

And Null,asking someone to prove a negative is fallacious, but so is asserting such a negative based on nothing, especially when we have no way to check.
Now, taking the negative pro tem, isn't, but it can't technically ever be conclusory.