Addressing the core issues

[Lex]

After a long conversation with Omega, I have decided that it's not a good idea to post a list of links to rude/unhelpful/dismissive comments made by members, because it's only going to stir more shit - which despite apparent sentiments to the contrary - is not what I want.

I'm not going back on anything I've said, I did spend about an hour looking through threads and in that time found 20 comments that were outwardly antagonistic towards either me or someone else, and it's usually the same people. Some of these have been dealt with, others were ignored. The threads I've looked in so far are the Anti-Thanks thread, the New Forum for Member Feedback thread and others. Feel free to look at those yourself. There was also some bullshit in the Secrets Discussion Thread when I posted to make it clear I didn't post the secret that caused all the drama. Before I got to the end, I ended up having an in-depth discussion with Omega that kind of made me realise - what's the point?

My continued posting on these issues is from a desire to see an end to it, but I realise now that some of you might just not take what I have to say seriously and/or may take it as me perpetuating drama. In this line of thought, I'm done. I've already said what I wanted to say. People have responded, refuted it, agreed with it or whatever, it's over for me. I'm hoping that mods will start making public acknowledgement of wrongdoing to completely stop people from "White-Knighting" because I don't think it helps.

The bottom line for me is, people just need to stop being horrible to people. That's really all I've been trying to get across. That sentiment seems to have gotten lost in me trying to address some problems that have been ongoing. We all know it's been happening. If you need hard proof of what's been posted just look at the history of the threads I mentioned above.

I want to move on from this, I want to stop making posts like this and I want this silly high school bullshit to stop. I'm including myself in that, I think I got too wrapped up in the history behind what has happened. Something needs to change, and I think a tighter rule over the way malicious posts are handled would solve the issue at large, because people would be more careful about posting hurtful or inflammatory comments which would result in a nicer atmosphere on the board. That's really just me though.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Can I just get clarification. When you say ignored, were they reported?

 

[Geostigma]

If the Anti-Thanks thread is one of your basis for "people being mean to my friends" thing, then you have no point to stand on and are quite obviously taking things waaay to serious.

Heres an excerpt from the anti-thanks thread that I'm wishing the lot of you actually read because its quite obvious from some posts here that you guys hold "thanks" in to high of regard.

"I think something important to note is that the Thanks system isnt really that bad at all. I just feel people tend to over think the implications of what a thank can stand for. And seeing a large amount of people thanking a post that could be contradictory to what your trying to say may easily give the impression that there is a "clique" atmosphere around.

I personally feel Thanks should be taken with a grain of salt and our thoughts should really only be focused on the posts that are in response to our own, rather then the thanks that are located under them."

 

[Alex Strife]

Then please answer Zee's question? I'd like to know what makes certain people popular too. ; o ; If not that.

The way you put it, it seems as though you think I am "accusing" people of being popular. There's nothing wrong with it, obviously. I mean I just feel "good for you" to whoever is popular. I'm not one of those people who go "look at that idiot being all popular, I hate him/her".

I don't think there's a "thing" that makes you popular. It's not like "this person's got a lot of thanks, he must be popular". In my opinion, a popular person is someone who's well liked by a big part of the community, or if you want to be a bit more specific, someone who has a relatively large number of people who like them, be it as friends or from a certain distance.

Say, someone participates a lot in the board's various discussions, and there's a good number of people who agree with what he or she says, generally speaking.

Maybe someone else can be just really open minded and nice to others, and they talk on IRC / Skype / MSN / Wherever, and so this person befriends others.

I'm not sure if the kind of answer is what was expected, but that's my opinion; "popular people" are basically people who are well-liked. Not necessarily by everyone, but just by a "relatively large number of people".

It may sound stupid, but I think it is easier to "feel" who is popular.

 

[Celes Chere]

Ehh, I understand why you didn't want to post the links Lex, but I was genuinely curious. Would you be interested in PMing them to me at all? Not to start drama - just because I'd like to know. If you don't have the links saved anymore that's cool don't go through all that trouble again. XD

edit: I guess.. I never really saw people that way? When it comes to TLS I see us all as 'in this together' that's how a community should be, right? I never considered anyone to be more popular than another, just more social. And that's different than popularity. But that's just what I think. ^^;

 

[Lex]

Brooke, some of them were, some of them weren't. By ignored I mean most of them weren't reported when they should have been.

Gabe, thanks isn't the issue. It's a very small part of it, yes, some people do take thanks more seriously than others do. But that's beside the point. I'm not referring to all posts made in that thread, I'm referring to posts that are distinctly rude and unhelpful, such as one word replies and gif's when people are in the middle of srs bsns discussion.

I can't say any more than that because I'm already repeating myself.

Tiff, if you really want to see them, I can PM you the list. I'd ask that you wait until I finish it though. There are a choice few I can remember that I haven't found yet.

 

[Zee]

In my opinion, a popular person is someone who's well liked by a big part of the community, or if you want to be a bit more specific, someone who has a relatively large number of people who like them, be it as friends or from a certain distance.

if that's the case the only truly popular member on this board is splintered

I'm not sure if the kind of answer is what was expected, but that's my opinion; "popular people" are basically people who are well-liked. Not necessarily by everyone, but just by a "relatively large number of people".

there's over 300 active members. about 15 of them communicate through skype. everyone else generally seems to lean towards irc. so wouldn't they, by that definition, be the popular ones?? yet it seems like the general opinion is the opposite.

just trying to figure this out here.

 

[Madame Mayor]

I too get the impression people think no thanks should be taken as an insult when in reality it just means it didnt get thanked. I thank things, but I put no thought into not thanking something. It just means nothing.

 

[Zee]

sometimes i lurk when i'm not logged in and i think "wow great post i should thank it" but then i just forget when i'm actually logged in

it's really no big deal if someone doesn't thank your post

 

[Celes Chere]

Tiff, if you really want to see them, I can PM you the list. I'd ask that you wait until I finish it though. There are a choice few I can remember that I haven't found yet.

yes please thank :3

 

[Lex]

I too get the impression people think no thanks should be taken as an insult when in reality it just means it didnt get thanked. I thank things, but I put no thought into not thanking something. It just means nothing.

I totally get where you're coming from here, but I don't think anyone takes no thanks as an insult. What I do think is insulting, is when an insulting post is thanked. I know people have explained their reasoning for this and they probably feel they shouldn't have to do that, but I can't see how people think thanking an insulting post isn't going to offend a member who is directly insulted by that post. That's what I've been trying to say. I don't think the reason behind it matters - to me it looks like bullying no matter how harmlessly the "thanks" was applied.

And anyway, thanks really isn't the core of the issue here, it's just something I've mentioned because that's how it looks to me sometimes. I think we're putting too much focus on the whole thanks thing. Also that word is starting to look weird because I've read and said it so many times now. Thanks.

 

[Alex Strife]

edit: I guess.. I never really saw people that way? When it comes to TLS I see us all as 'in this together' that's how a community should be, right? I never considered anyone to be more popular than another, just more social. And that's different than popularity. But that's just what I think. ^^;

To say people are more social or that we're "in this together" is a bit naive, in my opinion. I remember being in a skype chat with a lot of people, and someone that I know about from the board was asking who I was. And once I said I was Alex Strife, he was like "Sorry but I do not know you". At that point I thought; right, I may not be posting like crazy, but not to know me at all?

It's obvious if you ask anyone who Celes is, people are going to answer. And I'm positive a big number would say she's nice, and kind, and stuff. And would say good things about you.

Of course, being here for more time does help in being more "popular" because people get to know you better and you have more time to "develop" relationships with others. But it's not the main reason, as there's people (like me) who have been here for some time who are not as popular as people who came here very recently. Being really active is the main reason, if you ask me. Therefore, I guess we could stablish a correlation between being active and being "popular".


And Zee, I do not agree with there only being one person who's liked by a "relatively large" number of people. Note that I used the word "relatively", which means it doesn't have to be something like 300 people. Maybe because those 15 people are a lot more active than some of the "IRC" people, then it seems they're more popular?

And anyway, as I said, I think it's more of a feeling, rather than saying "Oh yes this person's popular for exactly the following specific reasons".

But that's just my opinion. Hopefully nobody's offended by it.

EDIT: I'm opening the can of worms here, but on the whole "thanks" issue, when you're discussing something with someone who has a lot of friends around here, sometimes they get a lot of thanks just because of who they are, no matter how unreasonable their arguments may be. And even if you try making sense, you end up getting 2 thanks while the other person may get 15 and you get run over by their friends being overly defensive. And I think that particular thing makes it harder to enter discussions, sometimes.

 

[Zee]

And Zee, I do not agree with there only being one person who's liked by a "relatively large" number of people.

does anyone on this forum dislike splintered lets be real here

also i'm doing this so that when she comes in here she can ctrl+f and get some good returns

 

[Alex Strife]

Oh, I do not dislike her at all

I was merely stating she would not be the only person I would classify as "popular".

 

[Geostigma]

I'm opening the can of worms here, but on the whole "thanks" issue, when you're discussing something with someone who has a lot of friends around here, sometimes they get a lot of thanks just because of who they are, no matter how unreasonable their arguments may be. And even if you try making sense, you end up getting 2 thanks while the other person may get 15

Im sorry but... So?

Why would you getting 2 thanks change anything, I dont get it. Its not like every thank you dont get removes access to a section for 1 minute or something. Its just some arbitrary and random feature thats just there. Thanks shouldnt be considered for 1 second when making a post.

To say people are more social or that we're "in this together" is a bit naive, in my opinion. I remember being in a skype chat with a lot of people, and someone that I know about from the board was asking who I was. And once I said I was Alex Strife, he was like "Sorry but I do not know you". At that point I thought; right, I may not be posting like crazy, but not to know me at all?

People become seemingly more "popular" when they have more friends, they make friends by being social. To be social here means to be active here, to be active here means to be posting here.

See where im going with this? If you want to be noticed you need to post alot and talk to people. I dont mean just giving your 2 cents and then walking away from a movie thread. I mean hopping into the chit chat thread and getting to know people, perhaps asking them for there MSN or skype.

If there is a clique it certainly isnt a closed one, the only thing keeping the "door closed" is this hypothetical persons refusal to open it and get to know people.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

In case anyone's still asking about my opinion (since I saw a post or two asking) just refer to Yop's and Mako's that were made. Honestly they have stated it far better than I could.

The only part I'd like to add is that, for my part, I don't care about thanks. Really. I agree we'd be way overkill if we tried to make everyone feel "fair" in regards to that.

 

[Alex Strife]

Not talking about my own feelings here. I'm just saying it may discourage new members to enter a discussion. Nothing more, nothing less.

What I may feel does not matter. At all.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

a few more cents to toss in with my hatoful boyfriend comment:

i sincerely do not remember any time i have actively been inflammatory towards a member of the irc group (since im probably in the other group) (since i have a dessie character or something) besides i think once i got mad at lex cause he said mass effect 3 was like rape which it isn't, rape is like rape and mass effect 3 was, in his opinion, a very bad video game.

i got mad at dawn in a skype chat because she talks very fast and has a sort of squealy laugh and i often get headaches from loud noises soyeah

i literally have little to no idea who kassi is, much less other people involved in drama. the only member i can think of who i just don't care for is ryu, but i manage to keep distance enough from him. like i said when this was brought up in the tls secrets thread, a lot of this bullying or whatnot could be helped if you just talked to the person. or even reported a post you found harassing if you felt the need!

if everyone just sits around and goes 'dang i hate that post bobterrysnoopdoggydog made' but don't do anything about it, no one is going to be psychic enough to determine that you disliked it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Popular's not the word for it.

Notorious is probably closer to the truth, despite the associations it has. More active posters have more notoriety than the somewhat less active posters. It happens everywhere, and it CAN be used to deliberately and unintentionally seclude the less active.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Oo

I honestly don't remember you, sorry. But I apologize if my way of speech is annoying. I confess if we're talking about the same time I think you are I was pretty damn wasted, and while that's not an excuse, at least you know why.

Anyways, trust me, I have no hard feelings since I barely remember the incident. xD

edit: that was meant for the poster above this one

 

[Madame Mayor]

if everyone just sits around and goes 'dang i hate that post bobterrysnoopdoggydog made' but don't do anything about it, no one is going to be psychic enough to determine that you disliked it.

This is what I wanted to address. Because if these posts aren't getting reported, then you guys who are getting offended are just as much to blame for this recent drama. Instead of reporting it, letting staff made a decision, and moving on, you've let these feelings bottle up and now explode into this idea that there are cliques you aren't being welcomed into and that people hate you and that this board has a group of popular mean girls.

Yes, people shouldn't be dicks. But sometimes they are. If you aren't reporting it so we CAN deal with the situation, how on earth do you expect anything to happen? How can you claim these things were ignored when you ignored them as well by not reporting them.

AND if you have a problem with reporting them, I want a serious reason as to why. We just had three of us modded so there were more people to come to when problems happen and for staff to have some fresh faces/ideas on how to deal with situations. We have now a forum to discuss matters with staff, reporting is always there, you can PM a single staff member and they can talk on your behalf anonymously. All of these are available and if you still don't feel comfortable then I'm not sure what else to tell you other than you need to give some constructive criticism as what else staff can offer.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I know some people have told me they're afraid their identities will be leaked. Which, given the fact that we've had leaks in the past, is not an entirely unfair fear to have. I agree, though, that if people don't report posts in some other fashion, then it's kind of unrealistic to expect us to do anything about it. We can't read every post made carefully. Well, I guess we could if we made enough time to do so, but we're not getting paid for this, so expecting us to do so is pretty unfair

There is also the fact that people don't know how to report posts. I have had literally three people ask me how to report posts in the last thirty-six hours. I am going to edit this into the forum rules.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Wasn't leaked stuff about mods posting things in the staff section about other members and not reports by members being leaked? I understand that it happened but it's not the same type of situation.

 

[Ⓐaron]

The identities of people who reported posts have gotten out at least twice in the past that I can think of, although I believe neither of these cases was due to staff telling the person who was reported but instead due to that person working it out on their own. Regardless, they were confronted about it and it made them very uncomfortable.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

And if the mods are the ones causing the disruption? The ones pissing people off?

I suppose a person could report a post of a mod, but when it comes from a mod, a person of authority, a member might assume that's just the way the forum is.