Addressing the core issues

[Alessa Gillespie]

And if the mods are the ones causing the disruption? The ones pissing people off?

I suppose a person could report a post of a mod, but when it comes from a mod, a person of authority, a member might assume that's just the way the forum is.

well, still, i think it's the same thing. people are willing to change even if you're new. if you have a problem, you can't expect anything to change by not saying anything.

 

[Geostigma]

There is also the fact that people don't know how to report posts. I have had literally three people ask me how to report posts in the last thirty-six hours. I am going to edit this into the forum rules

Maybe these people should use the forum more

 

[Tifabelle]

Mods aren't above the rules, and if you feel a mod's post is reportable, then do it.

And one of the things I brought up in staff was mod behavior on the forums. Yeah staff is supposed to set examples for the rest of the members.

 

[Geostigma]

And if the mods are the ones causing the disruption? The ones pissing people off?

I suppose a person could report a post of a mod, but when it comes from a mod, a person of authority, a member might assume that's just the way the forum is.

What do you do when your boss is a major dick at work?

Go above him.

 

[Madame Mayor]

And if the mods are the ones causing the disruption? The ones pissing people off?

I suppose a person could report a post of a mod, but when it comes from a mod, a person of authority, a member might assume that's just the way the forum is.

Then go to a mod in PMs that isn't the one you want to report. This is more than acceptable.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Which is precisely what I should have done, I agree. And will in the future.

Also in case anyone harbors any confusion or frustation about me (or just generally wants to talk to me) feel free to message me. Unless you're going into the convo with me with the intentions of being dickish I definitely listen.

 

[Kuroto]

As I am a new member to this forum, I thought I'd share my opinion of the IRC.

I've been to the IRC occasionally, and I've found the people there to be really friendly and welcoming. I wouldn't say it's always easy to join the conversations, especially for me, as I'm really slow at writing, but I still try. And I haven't found it to be a safety place for those who feel like outsiders on the forum. People like Octo, Fangu and Yop are there, and they aren't disliked by others for what I know. And I've never seen any drama occur there, or any bad talking about other members of the forum. Usually it's just talking about everyday stuff. The only times I feel really left out, is when people suddenly decide to skype rather than chat, and I'm just left there with no one to talk to. Anyway, I try to make an effort to talk there as much as I can.

For me closing the IRC would feel pretty bad, because I'm not part of the so called clique, and I don't feel ready to skype with people. And that would make me less social here, because I don't have that much time every day that I could be posting a lot on the forum. It's easier for me to go to the chat every now and then. I go there so I would get to know people from the forum better, which I could do on the forums, I know, but it's just easier for me in IRC. Closing IRC for me would be like an effort wasted. ^^' Also, it would probably make the clique even more like one, and would take them further from the forum.

I have to say, that the people on IRC have made a lot of effort to bring more people there with drinking nights and FFVII race. I've tried to get new people there myself too, so maybe I wouldn't be the only one who doesn't know what's going on sometimes.

I also want to say that I have nothing against this so called "popular group", and I wouldn't mind getting to know others than the people I see in IRC. And that on my behalf anyone is welcome there. I'd really post more on the forum, if I'd have the time.

Also also, thanks for making the IRC really easy to access with the chat link.

 

[Alex Strife]

^ Wise and sensible opinion was spoken.

 

[Geostigma]

And I haven't found it to be a safety place for those who feel like outsiders on the forum

Except it is. Not to throw this member under the bus but. Members like Soak who use the IRC to avoid possibly not being agreed with arent exactly helping out the way they feel about there being a clique on the main forum. If you continually exclude yourself from a group your feeling of being an outcast will only grow.

The only way to get over this feeling of being "ignored or left out" is actually let yourself in. In a MMORPG I played I had a friend named *Reptar*, she was a wonderful lady and a really good friend but she continually felt left out of our guilds activities. To the point where she just up right stopped talking in the guild chat. She confronted our guild leader *Elmo* about it to see if there was anything that could be done. Want to know what fixed it all?

*Elmo* telling *Reptar* to just talk and get to know us. In fact heres an excerpt from our guild forum regarding how *Reptar* felt (and to a lesser extent a few other members).

I'd like to touch base on something. I get the impression that some may feel unwelcomed in CF, or that they feel as if they don't belong, or fit in. Now, you can always approach one of the officers of your concerns, or if you feel as if another member is bullying you thus making you feel uncomfortable. The officers here in CF are always happy to listen to you, and try to help you solve any problems.


That said, I'm going to give you some hints to make you realize that "fitting in" is a two way street, and maybe by following some tips, perhaps you will truly get to enjoy your stay in CF!


Step 1:

Say hello when you log.
It's alot easier to fit in when you are actually noticed in guild.
You can't be noticed if you don't say hello to your fellow guildmates.
There's a handful of people who I never know are coming or going because they simply do not say hello, or goodbye. Ever.



Step 2:

Join in the conversations! Sounds easy right?
Yes, dofus is about fighting and leveling and gathering gear/grinding/quest/etc.
However, if you never speak in guild, how will we ever get to know you?
Don't feel that a conversation is only being held by 2 people. If it was? It wouldn't be in guild chat. Feel free to pop in with your own opinions, quips, and jokes!

Theres more but its about elements of the video game that wouldnt really work here, unless you guys think going on a guild hunt for some rare items might help us all?

I never said the IRC isnt awesome. Its great for events (drinking, FF7 race) but it is also counter intuitive to bringing the community together. It might as well be its own separate site.

Its like when you first start a forum and you want a ton of posts and threads made, you dont exactly go and put a chat box on the top of the page right?

Same thing here, if you want to bring the community together dont divide them either.
I know the IRC is "part" of the community but there is obviously a division because of it because not all of us are willing to go there or have the time for it.

If everyone used the forum; instead of some of us here and some of us at the IRC then the issue of division wouldnt be an issue at all.

*Edited my friends names out of this, due to privacy and stuffs*

 

[Lex]

^Just wanna say that the issue of division was there long before IRC was. I can think of at least 3 people who have said they weren't comfortable posting before the site started using IRC. If IRC wasn't there, we'd lose members, and that's already been pointed out.

I'm not saying I don't see your point, I do. From your perspective IRC is the cause of this division, I respect that. I don't think it's true though. It might have intensified it though.

 

[Geostigma]

I didnt say it caused the division.

Im saying its not assisting at all and only serves to further the divide between any groups that may have been formed over time.

If IRC wasn't there, we'd lose members,

Sometimes losing members can turn out to be the right course of action. Not everyone is going to feel comfortable with everyone, there are some members here and in the past that are inconsolable and will look for any excuse to not fit in.

If there readily willing to walk away from the community instead of trying to actually make friends or not get butthurt over everything then perhaps TLS isnt the right fit for them.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This may not be a general problem, but for me personally one barrier to being more sociable is the frequent changes of username. Often I just don't know who people are. The names by which they are commonly known are sometimes not in the aka list under their avatar. I've finally worked out that Rishi is looneymoon and Tiff is, i think, Celes, but I have no idea who Road is. I toally understand why you use these names with each other, but I'm sure you can see it might easily get confusing, and become something of a barrier to new people.

I'm not saying the username system should change. It's a well-loved tradition of the forum. I'm just saying that not knowing who you're talking to can make it difficult.

 

[Lex]

They already have friends. On IRC and on the boards. They just feel more comfortable on IRC. I don't understand how that's furthering the divide. Taking away IRC and forcing them to post is essentially taking away the part they like about it. IRC is a part of the board now, and there's no reason to do away with it. Also, implying that the people who prefer IRC are "getting butthurt" over everything just isn't fair.

People have genuine issues with the atmosphere of the board, which is why they don't post, but this has all already been addressed.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

People have genuine issues with the atmosphere of the board, which is why they don't post, but this has all already been addressed.

so wait, they don't post because they don't like the board but they stay in the irc channel because

why?

i mean why associate with tls at all if you dislike the forums?

 

[Ⓐaron]

because they enjoy the irc channel?

 

[Celes Chere]

annnnd if they don't enjoy tls why post at all?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

They do post on the forums, but perhaps not in threads you visit on regular basis? This forum is a big place.

 

[Geostigma]

Also, implying that the people who prefer IRC are "getting butthurt" over everything just isn't fair.

Life isnt fair.

They just feel more comfortable on IRC. I don't understand how that's furthering the divide.

Because some of them only post in the IRC. Then when they do come out and try to post here get upset over something arbitrary that only a person who doesnt quite understand how things works would get upset about.

You guys complain about being left out. But your the ones who exclude yourself from the activity by not posting on the forums, and when you do you hop on the forum, you take everything the wrong way because you dont truly know anyone.

People have genuine issues with the atmosphere of the board, which is why they don't post, but this has all already been addressed.

Thats entirely there own problem and the only way they can fix it is if they actually socialize with us. Like the quote put up earlier says, its a 2 way street and honestly you guys arent even trying.


And to be quite frank its not even that bad.
Back when I was a noob on ACF and wanted to get know the people in the spam section I had to deal with the likes of the Arab, Manc, Kurosawa and possibly the most grotesque things that can ever be seen there (aka shin showing his pen0r everywhere and hitting on all the gals).

You guys come on here and its like "Oh noes someone on the internet disagrees with me, pout pout butthurt".

"Oh noes I got 2 thanks, bawwwwl"

Honestly we shouldnt even be having this discussion its straight up retarded.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

They do post on the forums, but perhaps not in threads you visit on regular basis? This forum is a big place.

the implication i got from lex's post was that some people just don't post on tls because they didn't like the atmosphere of the board. it's 100% ok and really great if you post in places where some people aren't active, but not posting at all because you don't like a board but posting in the irc is really...

a bit weird, sorry

 

[Ⓐaron]

Many of these people enjoy certain threads.

They don't enjoy the atmosphere of the board as a whole.

Just because a person has a problem with certain facets of the board doesn't mean they should leave the board entirely, unless they honestly think leaving is worth it. And if large numbers of people feel forced to leave because of the atmosphere of the board, as has been happening recently, then that is a serious problem that needs to be discussed.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Thats entirely there own problem and the only way they can fix it is if they actually socialize with us. Like the quote put up earlier says, its a 2 way street and honestly you guys arent even trying.

How is the atmosphere of the board "entirely there own problem"? If people are personally attacked, and they feel unwelcome due to those personal attacks, are you really saying that the only person to blame there is the person who is attacked? Really? Not the person who carries out the personal attacks? They have no responsibility?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

You know what's kind of funny, though? Everyone thinking the other guys were the 'popular' ones. I apologise in advance if I shouldn't have said that. I just couldn't help thinking it.

 

[Geostigma]

How is the atmosphere of the board "entirely there own problem"? If people are personally attacked, and they feel unwelcome due to those personal attacks, are you really saying that the only person to blame there is the person who is attacked? Really? Not the person who carries out the personal attacks? They have no responsibility?

Yes aaron .gif responses to there 10 page essay posts about nothing are totally personal attacks. Most of the insults there claiming happened arent insults at all they just dont get how we post and take everything the wrong way.


@Licorrice. Regarding the user name thing you brought up earlier.

I dont think this will fix the issue for you but I think a fun project and learning/bonding process could be that we all participate in making a list of our known alias and stickying the thread up somewhere?

I think it could be pretty fun and useful, as I can see where some people might be coming from like for instance if someone says "Gabes being an ass" They may think of Omega instead of me because we both share that as a known alias lol

 

[Ghost X]

So, TL;DR: don't be a dick.

Any perceived issues you have, raise 'em in a civil rational manner. If you're in an emotional state, calm down, otherwise you see red, say stupid shit, offend a bunch of people, fail to take the moral high ground, etc. I really do encourage people here to take the moral high ground. There is no justice in being a dick back to the person being a dick to you. Doesn't remotely help anything, except your hurt ego.

Spoiler

This is bad

.

I'm curious though, when people cause drama, what exactly is the punishment?

If people fail to have the social skills to know that saying stupid/creepy things to complete strangers is stupid/creepy, especially if it keeps happening, shit needs to happen to that member. Same can be said of drama whores who perceive shit happening, and get all out-right vengeful, or simply passive aggressive n' all the rest of it. Tis not necessary. As far as I know, murder, rape, paedophilia, and third world issues have never happened on this forum, but sometimes by the amount of drama that occurs here (of late, especially), it sure seems like it. Calm down. Take a breather. Everything is going to be okay. Remind yourself of that before you think of going apeshit.

Then you got the factional issue. As pointed out already by someone, its natural for a community to be divided up amongst the diverse interests of its members. Out-group aggression may also be natural, but its destructive. Stop it . Loyalty is stupid also. Stop that too . You ain't better than them, they are not better than you. If you perceive an inequality of sorts, raise the issue in a civil rational manner. I think this is the basic solution we come to with the repeated dramas that happen, but there seems to be a failure in doing so. Not exactly sure how to drill this into people's skulls.

I'm sure a majority of members here are a part of an organisation in real life (work place, school, association of some sort, etc). I ask you all to think of how those organisations handle members who cause drama? In my experience, depending on the severity, they're given a warning, and then banned, or simply banned straight away. Lengthy bans, people. Not piss weak stuff. Who has received a lengthy ban here recently? No one? (genuine question, I don't know).

I know we're trying to be nice, and help problem members (and everyone for that matter), and be all inclusive n' stuff, which is super, but we're not professionals. If people don't know how to function socially, they need to seek professional help .

 

[Lex]

I can't respond to the posts in this thread anymore. Everything I've been saying has been misunderstood or something seriously. I literally feel like someone is editing what I've written and I can't see it or something.

Yes, there is an atmosphere that people don't like. That atmosphere is caused by rude people, not by "misunderstanding how it works here".

Then there is the continuous focus on thanks, which was mentioned as an aside. No one is saying "bawww I only received two thanks" and that is once again belittling the valid opinions of other people. FFS it's the comments like that make people afraid to voice their opinions!

The people we're talking about do like the board. They don't like other members jumping on their posts, that's all. Why is such a massive extreme leap to want people to be respectful of other people's posts? Why is it "weird" to not want comments like CK's posted because someone appreciated another member that other people might not particularly like?

I take huge issue with that "you guys aren't even trying" comment. Me and more than one person have stated examples of instances where everyone has been invited here there and everywhere. I even mentioned that I was talking to Tifabelle about it last night.

EDIT: This post doesn't apply to the two before it, which I think were both awesome.