Avatar: The Last Airbender & Korra (SPOILERS)

[Theozilla]

appingo's analysis of Mako's character thusofar:

Who is appingo? Somone on tumblr?
Anyways, he/she wrote a great analysis of Mako, that I virtually completely agree with. I agree that Mako is arguably the most realistic character in the series. I also agree Mako, as person, is not a very easy to like person. But because he is such a complex realistic and well-written character that makes him my favorite in the series. My favorite characters in fiction are generally the most realistically and well-written characters, not necessarily the most likable.
But it makes perfect sense how, unlike Zuko, Mako is already in the hero's role (arguably the second most significant hero, when you compare his screen-time and character focus to Bolin) and people (on an emotive level) won't "forgive" him as easily for his flaws (even if they are well-written flaws because many people/fans are fickle/shallow and/or have certain expectations for protagonists.

I agree with most of it but I really want Mako to just grow up, more focus on his character would be nice so he doesn't seems like an irrational jerk.
When I saw Korra with so much maturity and growth in one episode it just seems like he's streets behind, Bolin too :/

However, Zealkin I disagree that Mako's jerkiness has been irrational, even in the 7th episode (I agree he was jerkish, but it was understandable and somewhat justified jerkiness).

For Mako's behavior in episode 7 you need to look at this from the characters' perspective and not your own. We have access to knowledge that the characters themselves just don't have. Korra was making a very serious accusation, and she had no legitimate proof. That is pretty heavy right there. WE the viewers know that she was on to something, but consider this from the point of view of the characters themselves. Hiroshi has been nothing but awesome to them thus far, and even Korra had absolutely no issues with him until she listened in on his phone conversation. So no one had any real reason to think anything bad about him at all.

In addition, Mako owes a lot to Hiroshi. It isn't like Hiroshi is just a distant acquaintance to Mako. Mako obviously looked up to Hiroshi, a person who crawled their way off the street and out of the gutter, and then took the time and the money to help him do the same (sure it was all a con, but Mako didn't know that). Now Korra starts accusing him of being an Equalist, the very same group that kidnapped Bolin, wrecked the stadium and thus his home, and in general is targeting benders in order to take away the very thing that makes them who they are. Not a simple accusation to make. WE know Korra is right, because we have the benefit of viewer omniscience, but for Mako this accusation was totally unjustified and pretty much out of nowhere. Follow that with Korra having feelings for him thus giving her a motive (not terribly compelling, but given the overall emotional charge of the scenario right now everyone is probably a bit tightly wound), and Mako coming to the conclusion he did is understandable. And while Lin and Tenzin were also pushing the investigation Mako does have a somewhat reasonable view to think that the two hold Korra's opinion in high regard because she is the Avatar and might back off if Korra "dropped it". It was not a good conclusion, something he realized and apologized for, which people seem to convieniently ignore, but it was a conclusion that anyone could have come to given the circumstances.

Korra had nothing to offer to prove her accusation when she first made it, just the overheard conversation that no one else was privy to. Again, WE know that she was right, but we have knowledge and information that Mako and Asami did not.


However, I do wonder how Mako's character growth/change will manifest. Mako, unlike his brother, has already been forced to grow up a lot, arguably somewhat prematurely because he had to be an adult and parent for his brother. He is already a very responsible and protective individual, which are positive qualities. I can't see him becoming less responsible and protective just in order to "loosen up". In terms of practical everyday problems Mako does not have much need to grow, unlike Bolin who has a very clear character growth direction (e.g. becoming less naive, mature, etc.). Mako's greatest challenges (so far) obviously lie in his interpersonal relationships with people, but I hope his change/development is more and/or something different than simply "have more faith in your friends". I do think his foreseeable character development (unfortunately for some people who dislike romance/shipping) will manifest itself most frequently in his relationships with Korra and Asami.

 

[Zealkin]

However, Zealkin I disagree that Mako's jerkiness has been irrational, even in the 7th episode (I agree he was jerkish, but it was understandable and somewhat justified jerkiness).

I wasn't saying that what he was doing was irrational, I was saying that because we have little in your face insight on his character it makes him seem that way, if that makes sense, didn't mean to confuse.

 

[Theozilla]

I wasn't saying that what he was doing was irrational, I was saying that because we have little in your face insight on his character it makes him seem that way, if that makes sense, didn't mean to confuse.

So your not saying his logic was irrational, right?
But rather because the audience perspective of episode is third-person to semi-Korra-first person it makes Mako's reaction seem less justified/sympathetic because, as I said, we see Korra actually hear Hiroshi on the phone, with the suspicious tone in his voice?
Would you agree/say that if we as an audience had not seen Korra actually observing Hiroshi's phone call (e.g. we only see Korra looking at the door but don't hear anything she hears) the audience's attitude/reaction towards Korra would have been more ambiguous?

 

[Tennyo]

I don't really feel that way.

I mean, despite the fact that we know what's going on, we have to remember that other characters don't.

I don't see how it's so hard to assume that Mako would be suspicious.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i was fine with mako being upset with korra but i wasn't so happy with his ultimatum of 'DROP THIS OR WE'LL NEVER BE FRIENDS'

ok mako feel free to have your teenage girl moment of 'I HATE YOU SO MUCH AND IM NEVER TALKING TO YOU AGAIN'

 

[Theozilla]

i was fine with mako being upset with korra but i wasn't so happy with his ultimatum of 'DROP THIS OR WE'LL NEVER BE FRIENDS'

ok mako feel free to have your teenage girl moment of 'I HATE YOU SO MUCH AND IM NEVER TALKING TO YOU AGAIN'

Well it is not intended that the audience be happy with Mako's ultimatum. But it is consistent with his character. From Mako's perspective Korra's insistent suspicion of Hiroshi Sato (at that specific moment in time, after the Metalbender Corps had searched through Hiroshi Sato's warehouses and turned up bare) was irrational and unjustifiable to him. And Korra's insistence at that specific point was starting to look very weak.

Remember Mako is a character who becomes very protective of anyone he lets himself care about (since he obviously cares about Asami, he would then by extension care about her father's well-being as well) and to him Korra is acting irrational.

 

[Zealkin]

So your not saying his logic was irrational, right?
But rather because the audience perspective of episode is third-person to semi-Korra-first person it makes Mako's reaction seem less justified/sympathetic because, as I said, we see Korra actually hear Hiroshi on the phone, with the suspicious tone in his voice?
Would you agree/say that if we as an audience had not seen Korra actually observing Hiroshi's phone call (e.g. we only see Korra looking at the door but don't hear anything she hears) the audience's attitude/reaction towards Korra would have been more ambiguous?

No it's not irrational, like Aki said though he was being a jerk. It was understandable why he was being so defensive but it was still immature of him. I want more insight on his character so he doesn't seem so aloof and dismissive when he regards korra like he did in this episode.

Yes point of view matters, but Korra keeps getting backhanded everywhere, he's supposed to be her friend and how he acted was immature, sure he had a right to be suspicious but sacrificing their friendship? really?
On a side note What angered me most was that Korra still seems to have no friends, she had to rely on Beifong and Tenzin instead of her friends this episode. I miss the old gang interaction, and I hope at least Asami will be there for her...

 

[Theozilla]

No it's not irrational, like Aki said though he was being a jerk. It was understandable why he was being so defensive but it was still immature of him. I want more insight on his character so he doesn't seem so aloof and dismissive when he regards korra like he did in this episode.

Yes point of view matters, but Korra keeps getting backhanded everywhere, he's supposed to be her friend and how he acted was immature, sure he had a right to be suspicious but sacrificing their friendship? really?
On a side note What angered me most was that Korra still seems to have no friends, she had to rely on Beifong and Tenzin instead of her friends this episode. I miss the old gang interaction, and I hope at least Asami will be there for her...

I don't think it was that immature. Keep in mind that in-universe Korra was making an extremely outrageous accusation, and her case was looking even weaker after warehouses had been searched. As I said in my previous post to Rukia Kuchiki

From Mako's perspective Korra's insistent suspicion of Hiroshi Sato (at that specific moment in time, after the Metalbender Corps had searched through Hiroshi Sato's warehouses and turned up bare) was irrational and unjustifiable to him....Remember Mako is a character who becomes very protective of anyone he lets himself care about (since he obviously cares about Asami, he would then by extension care about her father's well-being as well) and to him Korra is acting irrational.

And Korra's has friends but the reason why Mako and Bolin did not have faith in her accusations was because they were so outrageous (at the moment she was making them). And as a politician and policewoman it is in Tenzin's and Lin Bei Fong's jobs/nature to be more paranoid than a typical Republic City citizen.

 

[Zealkin]

I don't think it was that immature. Keep in mind that in-universe Korra was making an extremely outrageous accusation, and her case was looking even weaker after warehouses had been searched. As I said in my previous post to Rukia Kuchiki

And Korra's has friends but the reason why Mako and Bolin did not have faith in her accusations was because they were so outrageous (at the moment she was making them). And as a politician and policewoman it is in Tenzin's and Lin Bei Fong's jobs/nature to be more paranoid than a typical Republic City citizen.

I don't think her claims were outrageous, she's the avatar and she's trying to deal with the problem republic city is facing presently. The fact that Mako ignores this and thinks that Korra would stoop that low just because she's jealous is what makes him immature.

 

[Theozilla]

I don't think her claims were outrageous, she's the avatar and she's trying to deal with the problem republic city is facing presently. The fact that Mako ignores this and thinks that Korra would stoop that low just because she's jealous is what makes him immature.

To an audience member yeah her claims were not, but I disagree that in the context of the universe that they were not. As I said before:

In addition, Mako {and Bolin} owe a lot to Hiroshi. It isn't like Hiroshi is just a distant acquaintance to Mako. Mako obviously looked up to Hiroshi, a person who crawled their way off the street and out of the gutter, and then took the time and the money to help him do the same (sure it was all a con, but Mako didn't know that). Now Korra starts accusing him of being an Equalist, the very same group that kidnapped Bolin, wrecked the stadium and thus his home, and in general is targeting benders in order to take away the very thing that makes them who they are. Not a simple accusation to make. WE know Korra is right, because we have the benefit of viewer omniscience, but for Mako this accusation was totally unjustified and pretty much out of nowhere. Follow that with Korra having feelings for him thus giving her a motive (not terribly compelling, but given the overall emotional charge of the scenario right now everyone is probably a bit tightly wound), and Mako coming to the conclusion he did is understandable. And while Lin and Tenzin were also pushing the investigation Mako does have a somewhat reasonable view to think that the two hold Korra's opinion in high regard because she is the Avatar and might back off if Korra "dropped it". It was not a good conclusion, something he realized and apologized for, which people seem to convieniently ignore, but it was a conclusion that anyone could have come to given the circumstances.

Korra had nothing to offer to prove her accusation when she first made it, just the overheard conversation that no one else was privy to. Again, WE know that she was right, but we have knowledge and information that Mako and Asami did not.

To Mako it is more outrageous to actually suspect Hiroshi Sato of being an Equalist, than it is to suspect Korra of being jealous. To Mako Korra's reasoning was not rational, thus Mako tried to think of reasons that were rational to him.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

mako's reactions still seem over the top to me. if he had said 'you should start thinking about how you're hurting the people around you' or something i would have been more understanding. but he chooses to radically be like 'DROP IT OR WE'RE NOT FRIENDS' just doesn't seem consistent with mako so far? it just seems really unfortunate that he runs into a cute rich girl (asami, who is not at fault here!) and trusts her immediately and yet refuses to put very much trust in korra.

 

[Theozilla]

mako's reactions still seem over the top to me. if he had said 'you should start thinking about how you're hurting the people around you' or something i would have been more understanding. but he chooses to radically be like 'DROP IT OR WE'RE NOT FRIENDS' just doesn't seem consistent with mako so far? it just seems really unfortunate that he runs into a cute rich girl (asami, who is not at fault here!) and trusts her immediately and yet refuses to put very much trust in korra.

I think it was consistent with Mako's personality. Both Mako and Korra have somewhat extreme personalities. Remember during their argument Korra was not being merely suspicious, she was outright stating "I know Hiroshi is lying and is not the man you think he is" that is pretty extreme as well, even Tenzin and Lin were backing off at that point. In Mako's view Korra was acting unjustly.
And it is not that he is taking Asami's word over Korra's, Mako is simply just reacting to the evidence at hand. It is not really a matter of trust. And to be honest if that situation was happening in the real world I would likely view Korra's conclusion as pretty irrational as well. Also Mako's and Korra's public perception of the Sato name are also pretty different as well, to Mako who has grown up in the Republic City his entire life most likely associates the Sato name with "honest business" much more than Korra does who comes with a outside perspective from the South Pole. Again, I agree, Mako's behavior was jerkish (which is different from immature), but I don't think it was not understandable or not justified.
And remember after Lin reveals the secret tunnel, Mako completely reverses his opinion, recall the shared glance he Korra have when she descends into the tunnel, Mako's expression indicated that he was feeling like a real heel. Mako does recognize when he was in the wrong.

 

[Splintered]

I have to be honest, Mako is my least favorite character in the show. Although I get why he was angry at Korra, he thinks she jumps the gun and reacts to extreme to her emotions (which isn't entirely untrue). I just find him an uninteresting and frustrating character, like the worst parts of Asami and Korra but without any parts that I like about them.

I have to say in his defense, he always is quick to admit his mistakes and mans up to apologize. Yeah he makes a lot of those annoying little mistakes, but each time he's been in the wrong he doesn't brood about it but goes to fix his mistakes.

 

[Zee]

what pissed me off more about mako was the whole, "ASAMI STAY WHERE YOU ARE"
"mako i want to know about my dad"

"THAT'S WHY I'M GOING, SO I CAN FIND OUT FOR YOU"


mako you are literally the worst please go away

 

[Theozilla]

what pissed me off more about mako was the whole, "ASAMI STAY WHERE YOU ARE"
"mako i want to know about my dad"

"THAT'S WHY I'M GOING, SO I CAN FIND OUT FOR YOU"


mako you are literally the worst please go away

Why was that so bad? It was very in character for Mako, it showcased how protective he gets of people he cares about.

 

[Elisa Maza]

I agree. Asami hadn't shown any combat skills up until that point and Mako knew from first hand how dangerous Equalists are, since he did fight them. So yeah, Mako wanted her to be away and safe from them. Taking her would be a really bad idea, considering the information he had about her up until that point.

 

[Zee]

it's horseshit because it's asami's FATHER, and asami's choice as to whether or not she wants to find out about it for herself

to trump her judgement in the manner he did was really condescending

also if asami told korra in their first real conversation about her fighting background i really doubt mako didn't know she could fight, it's not like she treated it like a big secret

 

[Zealkin]

To an audience member yeah her claims were not, but I disagree that in the context of the universe that they were not. As I said before:

To Mako it is more outrageous to actually suspect Hiroshi Sato of being an Equalist, than it is to suspect Korra of being jealous. To Mako Korra's reasoning was not rational, thus Mako tried to think of reasons that were rational to him.

so because Korra is being "irrational" to him he sacrifices their friendship? I can see where their could be confusion, but I didn't hear any of that from Asami, or Bolin, just Mako. Asami should be angrier than anyone else, and Korra and she were starting to become friends.
Yes Korra was immature during episode 5, but that doesn't validate Mako's need to cut her off from his life, that was immature of him. Just because Korra was supposedly being irrational doesn't validate Mako acting like a child.

 

[Elisa Maza]

it's horseshit because it's asami's FATHER,

Who comes after Asami's safety.

and asami's choice as to whether or not she wants to find out about it for herself

A choice that potentially might have hurt her, enslaved her or worse by the Equalists. This isn't a "I know better what's good for you than you" territory, it's an "I'm worried and I have no proof you wouldn't get an electrocution while down, so please stay back" one.

to trump her judgement in the manner he did was really condescending

I saw nothing of sorts. Just a worried Mako wanting to protect the people he cares about.

also if asami told korra in their first real conversation about her fighting background

Asami said this to Korra because Korra said that she expected Asami to be all frou-frou, little daddy's girl, one for makeovers and girly things and whatever, so Asami told her. Otherwise, there was no reason for her to say it.

i really doubt mako didn't know she could fight, it's not like she treated it like a big secret

That's pure speculation and judging from what we've seen, Mako doesn't know a thing about Asami's fighting skills: he was as shocked as Korra when he saw her taking down her father and that other guy. And Korra DID know about her fighting skills and she was still gaping. If we're going by speculation, then Korra had the same thoughts with Mako about Asami's ability to fight.



Look, I'm all for respecting females for their choices in stories, but this time, I, personally, didn't see it. It was only logical for Mako to tell a civilian girl, about whose fighting skills either had no idea, or he had never seen, about whom he cares a ton not to go in a place where Equalists would be.

Besides, this whole thing was so obviously intentional was hammering its point down the head: they made Asami staying behind by using Mako's over-protectiveness, so the story would go to that dramatic scenes where Asami makes her choice.

It's not as if he based his reaction off her sex; when Korra when to chase Amon, Mako only yelled her a "Be careful!" and hugged her when she was back unharmed. That's because she had proved that she could fight multiple times. So no, Mako's not a douche for this reason.

 

[Zee]

A choice that potentially might have hurt her, enslaved her or worse by the Equalists. This isn't a "I know better what's good for you than you" territory, it's an "I'm worried and I have no proof you wouldn't get an electrocution while down, so please stay back" one.

i'm sure that's what he thought, but it is phrased AWFULLY

It's not as if he based his reaction off her sex; when Korra when to chase Amon, Mako only yelled her a "Be careful!" and hugged her when she was back unharmed. That's because she had proved that she could fight multiple times. So no, Mako's not a douche for this reason.

when korra offers to help the fire ferrets mako's first reaction is to say that he doesn't want to go out there looking like a fool :' )

i'm not saying he said that specifically cause she was a chick but considering she's the avatar, said she was into fighting her whole life, and was even catching onto the moves really fast with bolin, i'm kind of on the fence about why, exactly, he would :' )

it took him actually seeing her in action to admit he was wrong but there is something to be said there; his kneejerk reaction is to assume everyone sucks until they prove it to HIM

Besides, this whole thing was so obviously intentional was hammering its point down the head: they made Asami staying behind by using Mako's over-protectiveness, so the story would go to that dramatic scenes where Asami makes her choice.

I get that. The plot doesn't excuse Mako's behavior though.

he is just generally poo

 

[Zealkin]

Just pointing out again that I do not hate Mako. It's only been 7 episodes, it took Zuko almost 3 seasons to get his shit together. So I'm not going to hate Mako unconditionally just because he's made a few mistakes. Analyzing characters is fun though.

 

[Theozilla]

so because Korra is being "irrational" to him he sacrifices their friendship? I can see where their could be confusion, but I didn't hear any of that from Asami, or Bolin, just Mako. Asami should be angrier than anyone else, and Korra and she were starting to become friends.
Yes Korra was immature during episode 5, but that doesn't validate Mako's need to cut her off from his life, that was immature of him. Just because Korra was supposedly being irrational doesn't validate Mako acting like a child.

Asami was definitely pissed off, and Korra's accusations definitely halted any growth of a friendship they might have started.
And I am not saying that Mako's actions were valid, I just don't think "immature" is the right descriptor for them. I would definitely call it "extreme" or "harsh" but I don't see it as "immature" behavior.

 

[Theozilla]

i'm sure that's what he thought, but it is phrased AWFULLY

when korra offers to help the fire ferrets mako's first reaction is to say that he doesn't want to go out there looking like a fool :' )

i'm not saying he said that specifically cause she was a chick but considering she's the avatar, said she was into fighting her whole life, and was even catching onto the moves really fast with bolin, i'm kind of on the fence about why, exactly, he would :' )

it took him actually seeing her in action to admit he was wrong but there is something to be said there; his kneejerk reaction is to assume everyone sucks until they prove it to HIM

I get that. The plot doesn't excuse Mako's behavior though.

he is just generally poo

You're right that Mako assumes the worst most of the times, being a pessimist is part of his character. The environment he grew up in and the role he had to take on caused him to be a very defensive and hardened person. And anyone he does care about he becomes extremely protective of. And Mako's unwillingness to let Korra fill-in was partially justified in episode 2, Korra showed as Mako suspected, that she was very unfamiliar with the rules and was messing up in the first couple rounds.

 

[Zealkin]

Asami was definitely pissed off, and Korra's accusations definitely halted any growth of a friendship they might have started.
And I am not saying that Mako's actions were valid, I just don't think "immature" is the right descriptor for them. I would definitely call it "extreme" or "harsh" but I don't see it as "immature" behavior.

Asami may have been angry, but she didn't try to cut off her and Korra's friendship.

The way Mako acted reminded me of when I was a kid. When someone didn't like what you were doing they would tell you to stop or they wouldn't be friends with you anymore, then they would "make up" and be friends again with you or whoever they were arguing with countless times. His immaturity is probably going to foreshadow growth later on, but it was pretty petty, and childish. I don't understand how it isn't. Even if he had a rationale for his behavior he's not five, and this girl (who is also the avatar)
helped save him and his brother a couple of times. Saying "I don't want to be your friend anymore" and pegging it on jealousy is immature. Being "extreme and harsh" can lead to immature actions, Mako is inexperienced with having friends that much is certain, he doesn't understand that he can't just cast someone aside just because they upset him.

 

[Theozilla]

Asami may have been angry, but she didn't try to cut off her and Korra's friendship.

The way Mako acted reminded me of when I was a kid. When someone didn't like what you were doing they would tell you to stop or they wouldn't be friends with you anymore, then they would "make up" and be friends again with you or whoever they were arguing with countless times. His immaturity is probably going to foreshadow growth later on, but it was pretty petty, and childish. I don't understand how it isn't. Even if he had a rationale for his behavior he's not five, and this girl (who is also the avatar)
helped save him and his brother a couple of times. Saying "I don't want to be your friend anymore" and pegging it on jealousy is immature. Being "extreme and harsh" can lead to immature actions, Mako is inexperienced with having friends that much is certain, he doesn't understand that he can't just cast someone aside just because they upset him.

Asami and Korra did not really have a friendship to sacrifice yet.
I suppose I would consider his actions immature as in he is inexperienced with having friends (as you said) but I don't consider it immature as in that it is behavior anymore common to children than it is adults. Since plenty adults have sacrificed friendships for lesser reasons.