Avatar: The Last Airbender & Korra (SPOILERS)

[Theozilla]

For the sake of character discussion/analysis, I have noticed there is still a significant amount of Asami-hate on tumblr. Now obviously a lot of it is from irrational shippers, but from the ones that aren't I have noticed some recurring patterns to the criticisms, the most common being that "Asami is too perfect of a character". I find this worth discussing because I don't think it is a completely outrageous criticism.

While I don't think Asami is "too perfect", I do think that (so far) she does not have any character flaws (the closest thing to a character flaw I would consider would be her not asking her father for permission in episode 7). Now, this is not to say that she has not had character struggle (episode 7 was full of that) or good characterization (episode 4 established her personality well IMO and 5 & 6 further reaffirmed it with what little screen time she had); but I still don't find her to have any character flaws yet and I am curious to see how her character will be developed/explored in later episodes.

Now she does not necessarily need to have character flaws in order to be an enjoyable. For example, Suki in A:TLA, I didn't consider her to have any character flaws, but she was still well written had good character struggle. But Asami's and Suki's situations don't appear to be entirely analogous since it seems that Asami is slated to have more screen-time (proportionally) than Suki did in A:TLA. And I think that would require Asami to have some sort of transformative character arc in order to work well. So I am hoping that Asami will have some sort of character flaws revealed/established in the rest of the season. Perhaps she will clash with Korra, Mako, and/or Bolin on how to take down the Equalists and/or obtain information on them due to her non-bender perspective or perhaps her guilt towards her father's actions will make her even more harsh than the rest of Team Avatar. Thoughts?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i think one of asami's flaws that was shown was that she sort of storms into things without knowing all the facts. her 'do first, ask forgiveness later' policy plus the times she charged in (like when lin, tenzin and hiroshi were talking solely because she was convinced of her father's innocence or when she went ahead when mako specifically warned her about the possible dangers) sort of shows that she doesn't put that much thought into her actions, sort of like korra. which could definitely lead them into very bad situations.

 

[Theozilla]

i think one of asami's flaws that was shown was that she sort of storms into things without knowing all the facts. her 'do first, ask forgiveness later' policy plus the times she charged in (like when lin, tenzin and hiroshi were talking solely because she was convinced of her father's innocence or when she went ahead when mako specifically warned her about the possible dangers) sort of shows that she doesn't put that much thought into her actions, sort of like korra. which could definitely lead them into very bad situations.

I don't know, I think her defending her father in that manner was pretty justified, Korra's case was pretty weak at that moment in time and nearly all the facts had already been laid out to Asami from Korra, that Korra had overheard Hiroshi on the phone and suspected him of Equalist involvement. The only thing she did not know was the specific wording of the conversation that Korra had overheard. And I think most teenagers would react that way if their parent was being accused of something that serious.
As for her disobeying Mako's request, I think the plot justified her actions in that case.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I don't know, I think her defending her father in that manner was pretty justified, Korra's case was pretty weak at that moment in time and nearly all the facts had already been laid out to Asami from Korra, that Korra had overheard Hiroshi on the phone and suspected him of Equalist involvement. The only thing she did not know was the specific wording of the conversation that Korra had overheard. And I think most teenagers would react that way if their parent was being accused of something that serious.
As for her disobeying Mako's request, I think the plot justified her actions in that case.

whether or not it's justified doesn't really change the fact that it can definitely be seen as a character flaw

i mean, mako's yelling at korra can be justified, but it's still a character flaw of his that he can be really harsh to people he doesn't fully trust

 

[Splintered]

I have issues with Asami because right now I think she's so incomplete. Like I said, she's more like a point than a character. And I think that the only real solution for that is more screentime, not necessarily a character flaw. Interesting you mentioned Suki because I was thinking about her too, too much of a perfect character, but after more time she felt more real and fleshed out. I think this'll happen with Asami.

That said, the way I feel about Asami now I felt about Mako before. I don't like to keep dragging him here but it's just the way I felt. I tried to like him but he almost smelled like fangirl pandering, and was such a lazy uninspired character. Made worse that slight attitude he had was immediately resolved with a ITS OKAY ITS BECAUSE HE HAS A TRAGIX PAST ;__;" and big brother tendencies. I don't feel that way now, because I actually do think he's a decently written character- and he slips in jerk mode so often now it's not just a one time tick.

 

[Theozilla]

whether or not it's justified doesn't really change the fact that it can definitely be seen as a character flaw

i mean, mako's yelling at korra can be justified, but it's still a character flaw of his that he can be really harsh to people he doesn't fully trust

Well it is not that is just justified it is the expected reaction as well, and Asami was not nearly as harsh as Mako (partially because she had not yet grown close to Korra like Mako). And generally, defending the innocence of one's parent is a trait that is considered positive, and making an accusation based on weak evidence is not. Not agreeing with the protagonist does not equate to a character flaw IMO, especially when in the context of the situation Korra's accusation (at the moment) is pretty weak.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Well it is not that is just justified it is the expected reaction as well, and Asami was not nearly as harsh as Mako (partially because she had not yet grown close to Korra like Mako). And generally, defending the innocence of one's parent is a trait that is considered positive, and making an accusation based on weak evidence is not. Not agreeing with the protagonist does not equate to a character flaw IMO, especially when in the context of the situation Korra's accusation (at the moment) is pretty weak.

but that's not what i am saying at all?

she rushed into a conversation that consisted of only adults wanting the facts. plus the do first, ask forgiveness, plus wanting to see her father despite the fact it could post a danger to her, plus the fact she wanted to date mako quite soon after meeting him says to me that she is a rather impulsive character.

 

[Theozilla]

but that's not what i am saying at all?

she rushed into a conversation that consisted of only adults wanting the facts. plus the do first, ask forgiveness, plus wanting to see her father despite the fact it could post a danger to her, plus the fact she wanted to date mako quite soon after meeting him says to me that she is a rather impulsive character.

She may be slightly impulsive but she is no more impulsive than the average person. Korra is a person who is impulsiveness is beyond average.
And she did not immediately want to date Mako, she invited him to a compensation dinner, it later lead to dating but the initial invite did not imply a romantic interest, at least IMO.
And even if we do concede that she is slightly impulsive, she had not had to confront that flaw in any way compared to the other characters who constantly are acknowledging their faults. Asami's impulsiveness has not been treated as a negative by the rest of the cast.

 

[Tennyo]

http://the-amateur-detective.tumblr...the-legend-of-korra-when-extremes-meet-travel

NEW CLIP! THE DROUGHT IS OVER!!!!

Very awesome.

However,

Spoiler

this show doesn't have enough Naga as it is, now she is being replaced by a car?

 

[Theozilla]

Very awesome.

However,

Spoiler

this show doesn't have enough Naga as it is, now she is being replaced by a car?

Well didn't Bryke say from the start that Naga and Pabu would be a lot less anthropomorphized than Appa and Momo were A:TLA, so it kinda makes sense would see less of Naga (since she is harder to travel with in the city than Pabu).

 

[Tennyo]

Did they say that? I've never heard that.

 

[Zealkin]

That upset me so much! I love Naga's design, and I want to see more of her! I mean cars are nice and all but flying bisons and polar bear dogs are way better...korra should have just ridden Naga next to them...with meelo riding with her

Well didn't Bryke say from the start that Naga and Pabu would be a lot less anthropomorphized than Appa and Momo were A:TLA, so it kinda makes sense would see less of Naga (since she is harder to travel with in the city than Pabu).

Do you know what interview that's from? link?

 

[Theozilla]

Did they say that? I've never heard that.

Do you know what interview that's from? link?

I'm not sure, it is possible that I am simply mixing it up with multiple written reviews/analysis on media sites that comment that Naga and Pabu are less anthropomorphized than Appa and Momo (which I agree with based on what we have seem so far).

 

[Tennyo]

I don't mind the way Pabu has been treated. If anything, Pabu has been getting his fair share of screen time.

I just want more Naga. Maybe because I like dogs.

If I had a Polar Bear Dog I would be the happiest person ever.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

She may be slightly impulsive but she is no more impulsive than the average person. Korra is a person who is impulsiveness is beyond average.
And she did not immediately want to date Mako, she invited him to a compensation dinner, it later lead to dating but the initial invite did not imply a romantic interest, at least IMO.
And even if we do concede that she is slightly impulsive, she had not had to confront that flaw in any way compared to the other characters who constantly are acknowledging their faults. Asami's impulsiveness has not been treated as a negative by the rest of the cast.

i don't think bolin's ego has really been treated as anything more than comedy, despite the fact it's a flaw. same with his naivete. the only characters that have really put much effort into dealing with their own flaws are korra and mako.

 

[Theozilla]

i don't think bolin's ego has really been treated as anything more than comedy, despite the fact it's a flaw. same with his naivete. the only characters that have really put much effort into dealing with their own flaws are korra and mako.

While Bolin's flaws are used for comedic effect, Bolin has still had consequences because of his flaws, episodes 3 and 5 are proof of that. Bolin's flaws produced negative results.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

While Bolin's flaws are used for comedic effect, Bolin has still had consequences because of his flaws, episodes 3 and 5 are proof of that. Bolin's flaws produced negative results.

i would agree that we haven't seen asami's possible flaw result in much that was negative (aside from her father's anger, but that was mostly directed at mako). i'd say the main reason for this is like you said, she's more of a suki in that respect.

 

[Theozilla]

New information on upcoming episodes

Episode 8 descriptions/summaries:

Description from Zap2It: “As Equalist activity continues, Korra faces off against Councilman Tarrlok.”

Description from TvGuide: “Korra quarrels with Councilman Tarrlok in the midst of growing Equalist activity.”

Episode 9 descriptions/summaries:

Description from Zap2It: “Korra tries to understand her visions; Tenzin and Beifong search for Equalist hostages.”

Description from TvGuide: “Korra tries to analyze the mysterious visions she’s been having. Meanwhile, Tenzin and Beifong look for Equalist hostages.”

 

[Theozilla]

And the rest of Season 1 episodes titles and air-dates. The source is this tumblr called Nick And More: http://nickandmore.tumblr.com/post/24103192045
It is supposed to be pretty reliable and is already referenced on the Legend of Korra episode list on Wikipedia, but still take the information with a grain of salt.

Episode 10 June-16-2012 Turning the Tides
Episode 11 June-23-2012 Skeletons in the Closet
Episode 12 June-23-2012 Endgame

 

[Theozilla]

I don't know how many people knew this, but the The Promise Part 2 came out in comic shops yesterday and I thought I could post some spoiler summaries/commentary on it. So...

Spoiler

While there is not very much plot progression, it is made up by the characterization IMO.
Ozai, I likes his characterization here. It shows that he didn’t maintain his rule through sheer bending force, but through his extreme adherence to Machiavellian principles and pure unsympathy towards his fellow men. His scenes with Zuko answers some questions I had in Part 1; the reason why Zuko is asking Ozai for advice and not Iroh is because he needed guidance on how to be Fire Lord. Even though Ozai is a selfish, arrogant prick, he knows how to be a Fire Lord, and that’s what troubles Zuko so much; he finds out he can’t be Fire Lord and be a nice guy at the same time.

“…I want to know how you were able to sleep peacefully in spite of the pressures of the throne.”

Which apparently is what Kuei learns as well. The happy, lanky Earth King no longer likes being a pushover and decides to go all Long Feng on Zuko’s ass. He decides to send the Earth Kingdom Military to forcible evict the Fire Nation citizens from the remaining colonies, while Zuko decides to defend the colonies with Fire Nation Military force too, possibly reigniting war.

The plot arc encompasses all the side stories, even with Toph and her metalbending academy which, because of the harmony restoration troubles, is getting reclaimed by it’s former occupants; a firebending master and his three young students.

I like Toph's students' back stories (or rather the back story of how Toph found them), and I like how while they’re learning a lot from Toph, Toph is learning a lot from them as well. A real Teacher-Student dynamic going on here.

And Sokka is there, you know, being Sokka.

Kori Morishita dating Sneers (from the Freedom Fighters) was interesting, it kinda added depth to the whole crisis in Yu Dao. Seeing her train with her Earthbender and Firebender cousins was interesting as well and shows the ethnic and cultural mixing of the colonies.

We also get to see a Avatar Aang fan-club which appear perhaps to be the precursor to the Air Acolytes we see in the Legend of Korra. It seems they'll have a role to play in the third part of the comic.

Mai (most likely temporarily) breaking up with Zuko was sad but made sense character-wise and made good drama. Suki's interaction at the end with Zuko seems to have launched a "Zuki" ship, even though their interaction was not very "shippy" at all, just a friend being concerned for a friend.

I really don't understand the hate the comic seems to be getting on tumblr and the rest of the web. It’s not bad at all. Maybe the dialogue and style of writing is just different from what we’re used to hearing, but if you take a step back and just look at what’s happening; Zuko being ill-advised, Aang, despite being a world hero, not knowing of the political complexities of life, the residents of Yu Dao having their personal lives crushed in the middle of it all…it’s actually a pretty good story.

 

[Zealkin]

I don't know how many people knew this, but the The Promise Part 2 came out in comic shops yesterday and I thought I could post some spoiler summaries/commentary on it. So...

Spoiler

While there is not very much plot progression, it is made up by the characterization IMO.
Ozai, I likes his characterization here. It shows that he didn’t maintain his rule through sheer bending force, but through his extreme adherence to Machiavellian principles and pure unsympathy towards his fellow men. His scenes with Zuko answers some questions I had in Part 1; the reason why Zuko is asking Ozai for advice and not Iroh is because he needed guidance on how to be Fire Lord. Even though Ozai is a selfish, arrogant prick, he knows how to be a Fire Lord, and that’s what troubles Zuko so much; he finds out he can’t be Fire Lord and be a nice guy at the same time.

“…I want to know how you were able to sleep peacefully in spite of the pressures of the throne.”

Which apparently is what Kuei learns as well. The happy, lanky Earth King no longer likes being a pushover and decides to go all Long Feng on Zuko’s ass. He decides to send the Earth Kingdom Military to forcible evict the Fire Nation citizens from the remaining colonies, while Zuko decides to defend the colonies with Fire Nation Military force too, possibly reigniting war.

The plot arc encompasses all the side stories, even with Toph and her metalbending academy which, because of the harmony restoration troubles, is getting reclaimed by it’s former occupants; a firebending master and his three young students.

I like Toph's students' back stories (or rather the back story of how Toph found them), and I like how while they’re learning a lot from Toph, Toph is learning a lot from them as well. A real Teacher-Student dynamic going on here.

And Sokka is there, you know, being Sokka.

Kori Morishita dating Sneers (from the Freedom Fighters) was interesting, it kinda added depth to the whole crisis in Yu Dao. Seeing her train with her Earthbender and Firebender cousins was interesting as well and shows the ethnic and cultural mixing of the colonies.

We also get to see a Avatar Aang fan-club which appear perhaps to be the precursor to the Air Acolytes we see in the Legend of Korra. It seems they'll have a role to play in the third part of the comic.

Mai (most likely temporarily) breaking up with Zuko was sad but made sense character-wise and made good drama. Suki's interaction at the end with Zuko seems to have launched a "Zuki" ship, even though their interaction was not very "shippy" at all, just a friend being concerned for a friend.

I really don't understand the hate the comic seems to be getting on tumblr and the rest of the web. It’s not bad at all. Maybe the dialogue and style of writing is just different from what we’re used to hearing, but if you take a step back and just look at what’s happening; Zuko being ill-advised, Aang, despite being a world hero, not knowing of the political complexities of life, the residents of Yu Dao having their personal lives crushed in the middle of it all…it’s actually a pretty good story.

I planned to buy it but tumblr spoiled it too much so i read it online, i'll probably pick up the book this weekend though.

Thank you! I thought it was pretty good too! Everyone on tumblr was calling it as bad as the movie, but it doesn't even come close! I think primarily people were pissed about the "shipping" going on which is quite silly. Toph's metal bending school was an interesting story, and provided some good characterization. Yes there wasn't as much plot, but the characterization was good imo.

I enjoyed the perspective from Ozai as well. Out of all the characters in the show he probably got the least characterization, because he's supposed to be seen as evil and untouchable i guess.

Nice connection between the fanclub and the air acolytes, that very well may have started his following!

 

[Theozilla]

http://www.toonzone.net/news/articl...e-2-2012-premiere-episode-when-extremes-meet/
New clip of episode 8, Korra talks to Tenzin about her Airbending trouble and visions. It is an official one from ToonZone given by Nick.

 

[Cloud_S]

http://www.nick.com/games/data/avatar/korra-republic-city/downloads/ProbendingRulebook.zip If you've not gotten to that area before...

 

[Zealkin]

Apparently episode 8 was leaked. I'm just going to wait until tomorrow morning, I'm too tired. You can probably find it floating around tumblr somewhere, though I don't see the point as it's coming out in less than 15 hours.

 

[Theozilla]

Apparently episode 8 was leaked. I'm just going to wait until tomorrow morning, I'm too tired. You can probably find it floating around tumblr somewhere, though I don't see the point as it's coming out in less than 15 hours.

Really? where did you hear that from? Sure it is not people overreacting to the ToonZone clip?