Avatar: The Last Airbender & Korra (SPOILERS)

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Definitely. It was also nice to see the people that received air powers were using them for a peaceful purpose. As air has been kind used exclusively force lately (except Tenzin) when before it was mostly exemplified for it's dodging ability. Of course the air can become a very powerful force, it always seemed to take Aang much more effort and when he was particularly pissed off. ...Which I suppose Korra frequently is :monster:

Uh, Korra's been using airbending rather relatively non-violently this Book as well. When she took down her fellow tribesmen in Civil Wars Part 1 she used airbending to make sure she could immobilize them with out badly hurting them.
Also airbending is not just about dodging, it's about circular movements. It's based on the Baguazhang style of martial arts (and a little Xingyiquan) it still includes punches, kicks, and grapples in it.
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
My defense on Korra has always been the fact that she's terrible at politics. If she was born in Aang's time and is tasked to defeat an opponent, she wouldn't have made her supposedly "bratty and bitchy" decisions. We have to admit Aang's task is difficult but very simple- find teachers, learn elements, defeat the Firelord. Korra is kept in a compound all her life then was suddenly thrust in a much complicated world. The adults in TLOK are much more smarter than their ATLA counterparts too.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Korra hasn't been acting entitled this Book, she's been extremely stressed; and calling her "whiney" is an oversimplification of her anger and response to the super stressful and complicated position she is in and it disregards her feelings and position.

I'm leaving these Book 2 meta/analysis here because it's worth repeating:
http://shineyavatar.tumblr.com/post/61320415858/saying-korra-learned-nothing-from-book-one-is
I’ve seen this all over the place, and it’s just as stupid every time it comes up. Korra might be as irritable and aggressive as she was at the beginning of Book One, but her experience with Amon is vital to understanding her issues as of the beginning of Book Two.

Here’s the thing. Constant training and limited companionship? That was normal for early Book One Korra. She rebelled against it initially because she didn’t feel like she learning anything, not because she thought she was being mistreated.

And then, Book One happens. The main thing she takes away from it? That “Korra” is more than “the Avatar,” even if she isn’t sure who she is. All of the freedom she had competing in pro-bending and fighting Amon was good for her, because it meant that when Amon took her bending, there was still a life there worth preserving.

So, what happens next? Why, Tenzin reverts back to treating her like she’d always been treated, of course. But this time, she knows exactly what she’s missing and how important it is. Why wouldn’t she be furious? She still barely knows who she is, and as long as that’s the case, she’s in a terrible position if her powers are threatened again.
I think the key point is the background for which she’s acting as ‘rebellious’ as she is. In Book 1, she turned away from Tenzin’s teaching because she felt she was failing and couldn’t live up to the expectations, in book 2 she’s turning away from him and her father because she feels they are trying to control her and pull her in a direction she doesn’t necessarily want to go.

She’s not just being ‘immaturely rebellious’ for no reason; she’s questioning because she’s realized that she is a person who has the right for an agency of her own. Her father keeps treating her like she can’t handle independence and trust, and that’s frustrating for her because she feels she deserves that, she feels she needs that.

Because this what she learned from Book 1, that she’s a person outside of being the Avatar, and people shouldn’t just boss her around with the excuse “this is what the Avatar should do”. No, Korra has a personal right to be respected and to decide for herself, and this obviously sticks deeper than the current situation. Korra has been controlled and locked up her entire life, and then she finds out that it’s for the wrong reasons, reasons that she’s literally been lied to about. She doesn’t feel respected, she doesn’t feel supported, and all she really wants is to figure out who she’s supposed to be, as a person and as the Avatar.

http://pulpofiction.tumblr.com/post/63356054688/korras-side-of-the-break-up
Korra’s dealing with an identity crisis on several levels - first, she is only still learning to accept that she, as a person who does not need to be defined and limited by the Avatar identity, has her own needs and personal desires. The first few episodes of B2 were all about that: Korra learning to voice what she wants to her mentors and guardians, despite what they think the Avatar should do.

At the same time, Mako was trying to support her: make your own decisions, Korra, trust yourself, I’ll support what you want to do. Let’s also remember that at the end of B1, he told her that he doesn’t care if she’s the Avatar or not, he loves her. He loves Korra, a girl who is also the Avatar.

Then the Southern Water Tribe is invaded, and Korra is faced with a dilemma that hits her in two places: first, her own personal attachment to the SWT, as a girl born and raised in the South Pole. Her family’s there, her home is there, she’s culturally and emotionally attached. For obvious reasons, Korra wants to defend the SWT and protect it from invasion in any way possible. She’d want to do this even if she weren’t the Avatar. The second part of the dilemma is that she’s still a bit stuck on what she’s supposed to do as the Avatar. What role is the Avatar supposed to play in a civil war? What role should the Avatar play? Should she be a diplomat or a warrior?

But, As You Know, Korra is ruled more by her heart than by her head, and in ep. 5 she was acting in her political role as the Avatar for very personal reasons. The Avatar, trying to convince President Raiko to send troops to save the SWT: actually just Korra, desperate to help her homeland and her family, and using the full weight and influence of her title to do it.

So of course she gets pissed off when Mako starts suggesting neutrality. It’s almost like a personal attack - she’s decided that it’s her job as the Avatar to protect her homeland and family and he wants her to be more diplomatic? Nooope. Mako is thinking about what the Avatar should do; she interprets that as him thinking about what she, Korra, should do and feel - Mako reacted against that, against the way she took any discussion of what role the Avatar should play as an affront or insult to her personal attachment to the SWT. She accuses him of always getting in the way of her doing her job, but she’s actually probably more upset that Mako isn’t understanding or recognizing why she needs to do her job.

And then he breaks up with her, because he doesn’t know how to deal with that, and Korra probably took it as a rejection of who she is entirely, both Avatar and girl, the whole sum of her being.
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
I really like Korra, honestly from design to personality there is nothing like her in all animated stories. It also matters to me that she shares my skin color and that is extremely rare for a main lead in an action cartoon. I love it that she proves it that boys actually don't mind a girl for that role.

She's not supposed be a great avatar right away, and I love it that she started out as flawed and immature. Zuko didn't have change my much at the whole Book 1, it's all character exploration. Book 2 was the most turbulent for him as his principles and personal wishes are being tested. It doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes: was rude and dismissive to his uncle, he steals since he can't stand a difficult life, he betrays his uncle a the series finale. It's only in Book 3 that Zuko actually had a massive overhaul in character.

Korra is way different from Zuko but I believe there's more in store for her that's why I'm very optimistic on what will happen in the future!

/clarified post
 
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Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
I really like Korra, honestly from design to personality there is nothing like her in all animated stories. It also matters to me that she shares my skin color and that is extremely rare for a main lead in an action cartoon. I love it that she proves it that boys actually don't mind a girl for that role.

She's not supposed be a great avatar right away, and I love it that she started out as flawed and immature. Zuko didn't have character development at the whole Book 1, it's all character exploration. In Book 2 he was rude and dismissive to his uncle, he steals since he can't stand a difficult life, he betrays his uncle a the series finale. It's only in Book 3 that Zuko actually changed for the better.

Korra is way different from Zuko but I believe there's more in store for her that's why I'm very optimistic on what will happen in the future!

Eh? He let's the Avatar get away to save his uncle from the Earth Kingdom soldiers and he makes nice with the members of his crew in the big storm in Season 1. In Season 2 he risks getting captured by the Earth Kingdom again to help his uncle get medication for the poison he made into a tea. Among his thefts are a teakettle for his uncle. Not to mention that for a few episodes he really did resign to working in a teashop for the rest of his life and tried to be happy with it. And he fights with the Avatar against Azula at least once.

Season 3 is far from the first time he changed for the better.
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
Eh? He let's the Avatar get away to save his uncle from the Earth Kingdom soldiers and he makes nice with the members of his crew in the big storm in Season 1. In Season 2 he risks getting captured by the Earth Kingdom again to help his uncle get medication for the poison he made into a tea. Among his thefts are a teakettle for his uncle. Not to mention that for a few episodes he really did resign to working in a teashop for the rest of his life and tried to be happy with it. And he fights with the Avatar against Azula at least once.

Season 3 is far from the first time he changed for the better.

Book 2 Zuko is transitionary for me, I didn't say he didn't love Iroh as he did attack the guy who was humiliating him and he cried when Azula injured him. He might be rude and pompus but he's shown to be close to him even in his childhood and he did save him when he was captured at the hot spring in Book 1. Yeah he fights Azula but this is still just like the Blue Spirit thingy where he wants the Avatar for himself.

Yeah I agree, Zuko was trying to be happy in Ba Sing Se and it could have pulled off well without the intervention. His betrayal proved that redeeming himself to his father has still more hold on him. He still doesn't know "what he really wanted."

I admit I forgot saving the crew from the storm is character development but since he's a child he's always valued the soldiers' lives. Maybe it's just that I misused the term "character development" my mistake my bad. I meant in Book 1 and 2 that Zuko didn't have "a massive change in character." That's more technically right.
 

Lex

Administrator
I'm with Avec and Carlie on this, I don't care how stressed out she is, 6 episodes of her lashing out at everyone and acting completely immature has been too many for the previously set up character development of Book 1. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect her to improve throughout the season but to me it's just not fun to watch a protagonist whining all the time. And she is whining.

And I don't think saying that diminishes what she's been through or her character. I'm not saying that she doesn't have a reason to whine. But she needs to realise that she's the avatar and the needs of the world and keeping peace come before her need to stomp her feet and rage. I do expect her to get there though, I just hope it's sooner rather than later because she is downright annoying right now.
 

AvecAloes

Donator
Lex, I love you so much right now.

Lex said:
I don't care how stressed out she is, 6 episodes of her lashing out at everyone and acting completely immature has been too many for the previously set up character development of Book 1. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect her to improve throughout the season but to me it's just not fun to watch a protagonist whining all the time. And she is whining.

This is exactly how I feel. Copy/pasta from emails with Force earlier:

I said:
"She's under a lot of stress etc etc"...but she's not a child, she's known she was the avatar for forever, she knows (because she's been told) that she needs to connect more to her spiritual side and yet is incredibly stubborn about it. She's seen that it's her downfall before! It's like she completely forgot the things she learned in Book 1. She treats everyone around her like crap, because they couldn't possibly know what is best for the Avatar to do. SHE doesn't know what is best for the Avatar to do! Or if she does, she stoutly ignores it, going against the better judgement of almost everyone in her life, and it ALWAYS gets her into trouble.

The three episodes I most enjoyed, like you said, were the ones in which she was barely around. And that's not a good thing, as the show is supposed to be focused on her. You're supposed to want to know what is going on with HER, but frankly, I'd much rather watch more origins episodes or see more of Mako and Asami being badass or seeing what Tenzin and his kids are up to! It's nice that the tertiary characters are really likeable, but it's bad that the main character is just not. I cannot relate to her at all. Why would I want to watch a show based on someone I can't relate to, and worse, get frustrated with every single time? Like I said on TLS, I really hope that this marks a TRUE turning point for her.

The way that she is treating her elders (her father, Tenzin, etc.) just smacks of immaturity. I get that she's probably frustrated that her life has been mostly isolated and has involved a lot of training, but honestly, she's in a better position now than she was in Book 1. She might not have the time or the opportunity to be doing the Pro Bending stuff anymore, but at least she now has friends, and (at least had) a boyfriend (whom she treated like dirt). She saw how important it was to be able to learn air bending by the end of Book 1, saw that the spirit world was important, and yet it's like she doesn't care to work on those things any more. She's cocky. She was incredibly cocky in Book 1, probably because she'd been fawned over for being a young master of Fire, Earth, and Water, but it seems that she's not moved on from that. She now knows air bending, but she hasn't mastered it, and she hasn't truly figured out connecting with her spiritual side yet. But she still doesn't seem to get the importance of both of those things as the Avatar! She can't stand having other people tell her what she should do, but she often doesn't know what to do herself, and her decisions have frequently gotten her and/or her friends into trouble. That's no way for an Avatar to act, and certainly not one her age, having had plenty of time to grow and mature and learn.

I get that she wants to explore herself, be her own person, but at the end of the day, she is the Avatar, and has more of a responsibility to fulfill that role than to see that her own desires are fulfilled. Seems to me that that's kind of what happens when you're responsible for the balance between the physical and the spiritual world. She needs to take that into account.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
I'm with Avec and Carlie on this, I don't care how stressed out she is, 6 episodes of her lashing out at everyone and acting completely immature has been too many for the previously set up character development of Book 1. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect her to improve throughout the season but to me it's just not fun to watch a protagonist whining all the time. And she is whining.

And I don't think saying that diminishes what she's been through or her character. I'm not saying that she doesn't have a reason to whine. But she needs to realise that she's the avatar and the needs of the world and keeping peace come before her need to stomp her feet and rage. I do expect her to get there though, I just hope it's sooner rather than later because she is downright annoying right now.

Well 5 really, she wasn't in the Sting. But I see your point. She's quite a bit slower in learning from her mistakes then last season. Seems like a waste when we're almost through the season already.
 

Lex

Administrator
My problem isn't that she's been moaning her ass off at everyone, it's the frequency now with which she's done it.

So she's pissed off with her dad and Tenzin at the opening of the season. It made me raise an eyebrow, but fine, I can get behind that for two episodes or so. When she finally reconciled with her dad and realised hat was going on, it looked like growth. The next thing you know, she's screaming at Mako and behaving like a child again. 3 is pushing it, never mind 5.

I don't know, maybe I've been spoiled by Aang. He was an airbender, mostly zen, and maybe a bit too young to appreciate the full range of emotions that Korra is experiencing. I expected Korra to be feisty, and I liked her in season 1, cocky or not. She's just turned into an angry brat. I reiterate: not because of the way she's acted, but because she's been that way for too long. I'm hoping the next few episodes we'll see her acting a bit more selflessly.
 

Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
Okay.... I'll just watch Book 2 before I make more comments about Korra, but I'll only watch when the season is over.

As somewhat of a topic changer, folks in tumblr pointed out that the bison Korra was riding had the same broken right horn as Appa's mother... interesting.

250px-Appa%27s_mother.png

tumblr_muwbvsLD8j1rcv38bo1_500.gif
 

Carlie

CltrAltDelicious
AKA
Chloe Frazer
There's some things that Korra has done that the show doesn't even treat as bad like when she threaten to kill that judge. I really hope that after Beginnings her behavior improves because it has been unbearable to watch. I really loved Beginnings but it really doesn't restore my faith on Book 2 as one of the reasons why the episode was great was because none of the many issues of Book 2 were present. Adding to the list of issues is the reappearance of the godawful, romantic plot tumor love triangle of Book 1 as if Makorra wasn't bad enough.

Is going to be a funny moment when Nagga sees Korra in that flying bison.
 
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Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
She saw how important it was to be able to learn air bending by the end of Book 1, saw that the spirit world was important, and yet it's like she doesn't care to work on those things any more. She's cocky.

She now knows air bending, but she hasn't mastered it, and she hasn't truly figured out connecting with her spiritual side yet. But she still doesn't seem to get the importance of both of those things as the Avatar! She can't stand having other people tell her what she should do, but she often doesn't know what to do herself, and her decisions have frequently gotten her and/or her friends into trouble.

I get that she wants to explore herself, be her own person, but at the end of the day, she is the Avatar, and has more of a responsibility to fulfill that role than to see that her own desires are fulfilled. Seems to me that that's kind of what happens when you're responsible for the balance between the physical and the spiritual world. She needs to take that into account.

I don't think that's very fair. The argument between Korra and Tenzin/her father was that they wanted her to further master Airbending first while Korra wanted to learn more about controlling spirits from Unalaq. After that there was the issue of whether Unalaq should be the one teaching her these things.

And it wasn't just about doing things her way. It was about doing things the way every Avatar before her had done things. The Avatar is suppose travel the world ans master all four elements. Korra was intended to stay put until she is like 21 or something which she was cool with because she was led to believe it was Aang's judgement that this was best. Turns out Tenzin and her father were BSing that part and made that call themselves.

On the actual issues I've generally been with Korra up until Peacekeepers.
The Avatar should allowed to see the world and Unalaq obviously knows more about controlling spirits then anyone else and it clearly IS a more pressing matter then her getting even better at Airbending (even if Unalaq probably is once again who engineered their recent aggression). But I don't deny she's been a utter brat about it all.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I fundamentally disagree that Korra is whining, lashing out? Sure, but not whining. And the reason why she’s lashed out at other people are for completely understandable reasons and not because she’s regressed from her Book 1 (and her cockiness wasn’t from being fawned over for being the Avatar, her backstory and creator commentary made it explicitly clear that she was constantly critiqued which is why she is such a perfectionist, Korra is her own worst critic) development but because of it. Korra’s reactions to others in episodes 1-5 have been completely understandable. I’ll go through each episode to illustrate my point.

Episode 1: Korra cuts ties with Tenzin as a teacher and goes against her father’s wishes to train with Unalaq. This is hardly an act of immaturity or because she doesn’t think the spirit world is unimportant. She does because she recognizes the huge importance of the spirits and extremely values her role as the Avatar. She listened/trusted Unalaq initially because he was making legitimately good points and giving her some freedom in her decision making. Tenzin and Tonraq never really made any good arguments as to why Korra should not listen to Unalaq in the first episodes, they were mostly all, “Because I said so”. They never really answered the legit question of “Oh, hey, there’s this weird imminent spirit thing going on that only one guy has any idea how to solve. What’s the reason I can’t just take a month off airbending training to have him teach me Spirit Bending?” Their answers were essentially “Because we said so; and besides, look at him, he has a weasel face.” I’d probably be more inclined to hang out with someone who’s saying he trusts me and giving freedom in my decision making. He anger at Tenzin and her father is harsh but justified to quote others:
What she learned from Book 1 was that she’s a person outside of being the Avatar, and people shouldn’t just boss her around with the excuse “this is what the Avatar should do”. No, Korra has a personal right to be respected and to decide for herself, and this obviously sticks deeper than the current situation. Korra has been controlled and locked up her entire life, and then she finds out that it’s for the wrong reasons, reasons that she’s literally been lied to about. She doesn’t feel respected, she doesn’t feel supported, and all she really wants is to figure out who she’s supposed to be, as a person and as the Avatar.
In addition, Tenzin’s story segments at the Southern Air Temple are essentially highlighting the flaws of Tenzin’s teaching styles and mindset. Making it clear Tenzin does not always know what is best for people. Korra’s conversation with Mako at the end also show s she is not overly self-assured in her actions (showing that she does not have the mindset of believing that she knows better than everyone else) but she also has to believe in herself as well.

Episode 2: Korra get’s pissed at her dad for hiding even more information from her. She gets snappy with Mako. Korra admits that’s she was a pain to Mako because of the stress she was experiencing. Tonraq even states Korra has every right to be made at him and admits in episode 3 that he was wrong to hold Korra back (referring to his putting her in the compound and his recent behavior). Korra’s explicitly states that she recognizes the importance of her role and the spirit world saying “Dad, it's my job to be the bridge between the spirits and the physical world, and I finally have a chance to live up to my potential.” Korra is desperately trying to be more spiritual in order to solve dark spirit problems plaguing the south.

Episode 3: Korra begins to question Unalaq’s actions but is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for his reasonably stated reasons. Korra continues to give the cold shoulder to her father for understandable reasons (she literally spells them out in her conversation with her mother) but reconciles with her parents at the end of the episode, where both sides apologize (this is important, as it stresses that both sides were at fault). Korra is fervently attempting prevent a civil war, trying to fulfill her Avatar duties to be “neutral”. She even shows sympathy to the Southern rebels and gives them the chance to back out without consequences, when they refuse she defeats them with airbending, making sure to not to harm them and just restrains them (this exemplifies that Korra does indeed understand the philosophy of airbending’s fighting style). And she even pleads their case for a fair trail. That is not the actions of someone who lacks in empathy or disvalues her role as the Avatar or doesn’t recognize the need to keep the peace.

Episode 4: Korra has to see her parents arrest. Being promised a fair trail, Korra respects Unalaq’s authority. After being forced to participate in a blatant kangaroo court Korra rightfully and understandably protests the against the judge’s unjust sentence. Korra’s reaction is rather extreme but I think anyone would be in that mindset if they thought their parent (+fellow tribesmen) was going be unjustly killed. Thanks to Unalaq’s scheming, Tonraq and the rebels are imprisoned for life, and is able to remain in Korra’s good graces. Korra still recognizes unjustness of her father’s sentence though (who she loves and values more than ever due to their reconciliation). Korra takes matter’s into her own hands only after she sees the effect her father’s imprisonment as had on her mother, a scene which highlights Korra’s empathy and implicitly states her mindset being the same as her mother (hating to feel so helpless). Korra’s interrogation of the judge finally reveals Unalaq’s duplicity and Korra essentially completely whiplashes in her position on the Southern occupation. Any “mature”/neutral behavior Unalaq’s deception was able to bring out of Korra is now going to be completely colored in a negative light. And Korra doesn’t start the civil war without considering the consequence, her exchange with Mako and Asami before rescuing her father explicitly demonstrates that she knows there is no going back on her actions, and her decision in starting the civil war is not something she is proud of but basically views as the lesser of two evils (and would like to end as quickly as possible) as her dialogue with Bolin at the end of the episode indicates. Korra’s promise to her father to bring support to the South is something Korra’s takes really seriously as the show has made it clear that without help the North will decimate the South.

Episode 5: This episode where Korra is understandably having the greatest conflict between her identity as the Avatar and her identity as Korra. Due to what acting neutral resulted in the previous episodes Korra now is feeling more responsible than ever to show solidarity with the SWT which is why she chooses to march with them. Her dismissal of Mako’s claim of the NWT not being responsible for the bombings is hardly a reaction unique to her, everyone else doesn’t believe him either as the circumstances and Varrick’s machinations have made the NWT the prime target. And Mako only has his personal account with very little evidence to back his claims up with. To again quote others:
Korra’s dealing with an identity crisis on several levels - first, she is only still learning to accept that she, as a person who does not need to be defined and limited by the Avatar identity, has her own needs and personal desires. The first few episodes of B2 were all about that: Korra learning to voice what she wants to her mentors and guardians, despite what they think the Avatar should do.
At the same time, Mako was trying to support her: make your own decisions, Korra, trust yourself, I’ll support what you want to do. Let’s also remember that at the end of B1, he told her that he doesn’t care if she’s the Avatar or not, he loves her. He loves Korra, a girl who is also the Avatar.
Then the Southern Water Tribe is invaded, and Korra is faced with a dilemma that hits her in two places: first, her own personal attachment to the SWT, as a girl born and raised in the South Pole. Her family’s there, her home is there, she’s culturally and emotionally attached. For obvious reasons, Korra wants to defend the SWT and protect it from invasion in any way possible. She’d want to do this even if she weren’t the Avatar. The second part of the dilemma is that she’s still a bit stuck on what she’s supposed to do as the Avatar. What role is the Avatar supposed to play in a civil war? What role should the Avatar play? Should she be a diplomat or a warrior?
But, As You Know, Korra is ruled more by her heart than by her head, and in ep. 5 she was acting in her political role as the Avatar for very personal reasons. The Avatar, trying to convince President Raiko to send troops to save the SWT: actually just Korra, desperate to help her homeland and her family, and using the full weight and influence of her title to do it.
So of course she gets pissed off when Mako starts suggesting neutrality. It’s almost like a personal attack - she’s decided that it’s her job as the Avatar to protect her homeland and family and he wants her to be more diplomatic? Nooope. Mako is thinking about what the Avatar should do; she interprets that as him thinking about what she, Korra, should do and feel - Mako reacted against that, against the way she took any discussion of what role the Avatar should play as an affront or insult to her personal attachment to the SWT. She accuses him of always getting in the way of her doing her job, but she’s actually probably more upset that Mako isn’t understanding or recognizing why she needs to do her job.
And then he breaks up with her, because he doesn’t know how to deal with that, and Korra probably took it as a rejection of who she is entirely, both Avatar and girl, the whole sum of her being.
This episode was deliberately done to set up Korra’s Belly of the Whale stage (which is what Beginnings was) of her hero’s journey. Everything needed to fall apart in this episode so Korra could later step back to look at the situation more objectively and refocus her goals this season. That's why her reactions were so subjective to her position in this episode.
All of Korra’s rash behavior this season has either been for understandable to justified reasons or done deliberately so that Korra can reevaluate them later and recognize her faults. That is not being whiney or immature IMO.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Her dismissal of Mako’s claim of the NWT not being responsible for the bombings is hardly a reaction unique to her, everyone else doesn’t believe him either as the circumstances and Varrick’s machinations have made the NWT the prime target. And Mako only has his personal account with very little evidence to back his claims up with.

This is not so much a defense of Korra as it is an indictment of everyone else. ESPECIALLY Beifong's police force. That she would handpick someone to be on guard duty and then patently ignore anything he had to say. She berates him for not being a detective. So a detective is not supposed to consider the testimony of an officer (rookie or no) that SHE PUT THERE?

And even if no one else does believe Mako, isn't Korra supposed to be his girlfriend? She could listen to him once instead of biting his head off, again. Going on about sides, again. The worst part is that when they make up Mako is going to apologize back for very little reason. But, regardless, it wasn't Korra that bothered me so much about that episode as it was making Beifong look inept.


I don't really want to join the bashing Korra parade. Lord knows I've spent enough time on the internet refuting claims that Cloud is "emo" because he lost hope after contracting a terminal, incurable disease. I know the rampant morons on tumblr with nothing better to do with their time have you on edge about the whole thing. But like Lex said, they are keeping her unlikable for too long. The fact that I didn't miss her in these last three episodes isn't something to be lauded, sense or no.
But I don't hate the show the way, well, Carlie appears to. LoK has yet to capture the magic of the Last Airbender, but Beginnings positively did, I look forward to seeing them build on it. And if it straightens Korra out, then all the better.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
This is not so much a defense of Korra as it is an indictment of everyone else. ESPECIALLY Beifong's police force. That she would handpick someone to be on guard duty and then patently ignore anything he had to say. She berates him for not being a detective. So a detective is not supposed to consider the testimony of an officer (rookie or no) that SHE PUT THERE?

And even if no one else does believe Mako, isn't Korra supposed to be his girlfriend? She could listen to him once instead of biting his head off, again. Going on about sides, again. The worst part is that when they make up Mako is going to apologize back for very little reason. But, regardless, it wasn't Korra that bothered me so much about that episode as it was making Beifong look inept.

I don't really want to join the bashing Korra parade. Lord knows I've spent enough time on the internet refuting claims that Cloud is "emo" because he lost hope after contracting a terminal, incurable disease. I know the rampant morons on tumblr with nothing better to do with their time have you on edge about the whole thing. But like Lex said, they are keeping her unlikable for too long. The fact that I didn't miss her in these last three episodes isn't something to be lauded, sense or no.
But I don't hate the show the way, well, Carlie appears to. LoK has yet to capture the magic of the Last Airbender, but Beginnings positively did, I look forward to seeing them build on it. And if it straightens Korra out, then all the better.
This explains why Beifong dismissed Mako in The Sting and it's not because she was being stupid or unreasonable.
http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/p...nse-of-lin-or-why-makos-actually-in-the-wrong
In Defense of Lin (Or, Why Mako’s actually in the wrong in The Sting)
As nice as it’s been to see the fandom’s distaste for Mako begin to die down, it’s kind of frustrating that it has to come at Lin’s expense. And, no, I’m not going to blame the show for that, as much as I’ve seen it argued that she’s been made unreasonable to allow Mako to have a chance to shine.
Allow me to make an assertion: the perception of Lin as unreasonable in this episode is entirely the result of years of media insistence that the loose cannon cop always knows what to do better than his by-the-books boss.
Now, let me make something clear: Lin hasn’t seen the incompetence/corruption that Mako and the audience have seen from Lu and Gan. She probably doesn’t know about a lot of Mako’s evidence, because those two never bothered to tell her about it, and the one time Mako tried to tell her about it himself, he chose to do so at the worst possible time.
With that in mind, let’s look at the script for the scene where Mako interrupts the interrogation:
Mako: Chief! I think there’s a link between this attack, and the attack at the Cultural Center!

Lin: What do you think you’re doing?!

Mako: Solving this case! Did any of the people who attacked you have one of these in their hand? I think it’s a remote detonator.

Captain: It was too dark to see anything.

Lin: Mako!

Mako: Chief! I don’t think the people who attacked were Northern Water Tribe!

Lu*: Of course they were Northern Water Tribe! They were waterbending!

Mako: Was this one of the guys who attacked?

Captain: No. I don’t recognize him.

Lu: Oh, that’s embarrassing.

Gan*: Nice try, rookie.

Lin: Mako. Leave. Now.

Varrick: Nice work, everybody! Another open-and-shut case for the dynamic mustachio duo!

Asami: Wait! I think Mako might be onto something.

Mako: Chief, I know it’s a long shot, but I have an idea of how we can catch these guys.

Gan: Yeah, let’s all listen to the rookie.

Asami: He’s doing a better job than you!

Varrick: Whooooo’s hungry?

Lin: Enough! I don’t want to hear your lame-brained rookie ideas. You’re a beat cop, not a detective. Now hit the street and do your job.

So, here’s the first thing I’d like to point out about this:
Mako is terrible at interrogation!
No, seriously. There is not a single bit of information he obtained that would have been admissible in court, even assuming all the answers weren’t “I don’t know.” All of his questions were leading questions. “Did the people who attacked you have one of these in their hands?” “Was this one of the guys who attacked you?” There’s a reason why police have witnesses pick suspects out of a lineup, and it’s not because they think it’s fun to get a bunch of extra guys to stand in a line.
Basically, Mako just compromised an important witness. Is it any wonder that Lin would be furious about that?
And, second, to make matters worse, he let a couple of civilians follow him into the interrogation room! And one of them not only acts like a buffoon, but is also the very person least suited for being privy to information regarding this particular investigation.
Mako might be right about the bombing, but given his actual behavior, he was lucky she didn’t just fire him for incompetence.
* I’ve attributed the tall guy’s lines to Lu, and the short guy’s lines to Gan. I’m not sure if canon’s ever specified which is which; the names were given together both times I remember them being mentioned.
—-
Moving on from that particular issue, let’s consider one other thing regarding Mako in this episode: he may be right in his suspicions, but that doesn’t make his behavior right.
In essence, Mako is playing Korra’s role from Civil Wars (Part 2) and Peacekeepers. He knows what needs to be done, and he’s not going to let the law get in the way of doing it.
The problem is, in every case, acting outside of the law makes things worse. Korra sees a miscarriage of justice in her father’s conviction, and starts a war by threatening a judge and breaking him out of jail. She sees her tribe in danger of losing the war due to lack of reinforcements, and loses Mako by plotting with Iroh to get the United Forces fleet involved against Raiko’s wishes. Mako feels like his evidence is being ignored, so he plans a sting with triads and gets stung.
Mako’s single new piece of evidence was something that he probably could have found just by caring a bit more about what Bolin was doing; the only thing he gained from going outside the law was the knowledge that he gave Varrick the perfect opportunity to steal everything from Asami.
Honestly, there seems to be something of a double-standard here. Mako’s acting according to the expected “loose cannon cop” tropes, so he’s assumed to be in the right even though he didn’t actually accomplish anything; Korra’s… not, really, so her own similar behavior is treated as bratty and foolish. I don’t think the show wants us to think of the two as all that different, though — it just seems to be going for irony, really.

And I never denied Korra was being prejudice in Peacemakers, it was a deliberate personality flaw held by Korra and everyone else in the episode. But it's understandable why people were prejudice (also the bombing isn't what sets Korra off against Mako, what's set's her off is Mako suggestion of neutrality, which I've already posted meta/commentary about why to Korra it's like a personal affront).
Both Mako and Korra were in the right and wrong in Peacemakers, and when they are in the wrong it's understandable why they are so, both have reason to apologize to the other. This person explains it better than me:
http://crystalzelda.tumblr.com/post/63129898072/okay-wow-can-we-talk-about-the-breakup-because-it
They’re both super busy with their jobs, and that’s great, but they have no respect for each other’s position, at least none that will make them take a step back and be more sympathetic. Mako has a job, he is a cop, and he’s trying to think logically and use his skills and his work to set things right. Korra really doesn’t take that into account and just is too reactionary and thinks he’s always against her. But Mako doesn’t take into account Korra’s position, the very real threat and harm her family is facing, that her parents and all her community could get fucking KILLED and nobody’s doing a damn thing to help them out.

Mako didn’t have to tell the president about her plan, he really didn’t, but she could have had more respect for his position as an officer of the law. She was wrong to come in and fuck up his office (though lol I’m sorry, she showed restraint lbr), and he returned in kind when he dumped her in public and was more concerned about his job than the impending war her family is facing.

So basically they’re both so in the right and so in the wrong

Basically to me Korra's actions, including her bad decisions (and Korra going through her low point was deliberate on the part of the creators
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aA7nLJqSeV8
She’s [Korra’s] at her low point. You have to take characters through that stuff. It’s kind of flattering that we create characters that people connect with so much and they just want to hang out with them for twenty-two minutes but you can’t just make twenty-two minutes of no conflict and people doing everything right and getting along. That’s not the kind of show we’re trying to make. We want to take these characters through the trials of their lives that are gonna help form them into the people they’re meant to be.
have been all understandable, which makes her likable and interesting engaging IMO. (and personally I like TLOK just as much as ATLA; specifically, I like TLOK's Book 1 more than ATLA's Book 1 but not as much as ATLA's Books 2 & 3, and so far I like TLOK's Book 2 as much ATLA's Book 2 & 3)
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Lin hasn’t seen the incompetence/corruption that Mako and the audience have seen from Lu and Gan.
That's a big assumption to make since she undoubtably knows them a lot longer then the audience and Mako does. The script gives you the idea that even Varrick knows quite well how much use Lu and Gan generally are too.

And while I do not agree with the actions Mako took after Lin dismissed him, I think it's crazy to gie Mako crap because the script is stupid and then expect him to take a greater interest in what BOLIN is doing. Bolin's is 100% comic relief this season, nothing else. I don't know how this blogger could reasonably expect Mako to treat Bolin as a genuine human being in Peacekeepers.
 
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Danseru-kun

Pro Adventurer
Bolin's is 100% comic relief this season, nothing else. I don't know how this blogger could reasonably expect Mako to treat Bolin as a genuine human being in Peacekeepers.

There's this NYCC interview that tells about what's going on with Bolin:

TOONZONE NEWS: For all three of you, in season 2, I’m kind of feeling like Bolin is like early season 1 Sokka, where he’s largely comic relief. He’s kind of been a little shunted to the side, and certainly on our forums, we’ve got members saying, “Bolin was cooler in the first season.” What’s happening with Bolin?

BRYAN KONIETZKO
: Well, I don’t like talking about spoilers or even forecasting what’s coming up. We take so long to craft these shows, and I’d rather that come out through watching the show rather than me giving an interview. I will say that even though we set up Korra differently, where there’s story arcs for each book, it’s still a continuous story. They have a different bad guy and a different challenge for each book. We knew we wanted a long arc for their characters, just like Avatar. For me, that was the most interesting part of Avatar. You had the big, long arc of finally facing the Fire Lord and taking down the Fire Nation, but we also had the character arcs. It was us knowing where Zuko was going to end up from the first episode. We knew in 61 episodes where he was going to be. With Bolin, he’s the goofy, naive, good-hearted, child-like guy, and we know that he needs to go through a lot to grow up and find himself. That’s his arc.

P.J. BYRNE: Just to add to that, I think the first thing is not necessarily that he’s not cool. His whole life, all of his decisions were determined by his older brother. So when you’re let out into the world on your own, and now you’re actually making the calls about what you do or how you live your life and how you interact with people, when you’re by yourself and no one’s around to nod and say, “Yeah, do that” or “Do that,” you’re going to fumble.

JOAQUIM DOS SANTOS: You’re going to fill your fridge full of beer and go on an audition…(laughter)
P.J. BYRNE: Or eat a lot of noodles!

BRYAN KONIETZKO: His coolness was by proxy, because of his brother. But his brother got a girlfriend, and a job…

P.J. BYRNE: He was a sidekick. It was the sidekick. And when the sidekick has to stand up on his own, there’s going to be speedbumps.
Full interview with lots of juicy stuff here: http://www.toonzone.net/2013/10/nyc...quim-dos-santos-bryan-konietzko/#.UmZwBxDdLIV
 

Carlie

CltrAltDelicious
AKA
Chloe Frazer
But I don't hate the show the way, well, Carlie appears to.

It's frustration what I'm feeling, ATLA is one of my favorite shows and while Book 1 of LoK had quite a few problems it was still solid but Book 2 with the exception of "Beginnings" has failed to do anything of good quality. The potential is there, the Spirits storyline could be great but it took them most of the season to finally get something going which is why it has been so frustrating to watch.

BRYAN KONIETZKO: His coolness was by proxy, because of his brother. But his brother got a girlfriend, and a job…

That's just makes me laugh, they still have a view of Mako that a lot of fans to do not share.
 
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ForceStealer

Double Growth
I know you still have a bunch of ire for Mako leftover from book one, Carlie. But he's been the most savvy, levelheaded and fair character so far.
 

AvecAloes

Donator
I'm not saying that Korra doesn't have reasons to be upset. I'm saying that I want her to handle her emotions differently. To grow up a little, basically. Rebellious bratty attitude gets old really quickly when you see that it doesn't do her any good.
 

Lex

Administrator
I know you still have a bunch of ire for Mako leftover from book one, Carlie. But he's been the most savvy, levelheaded and fair character so far.

Well this might be the crux of Carlie's problem right there. Mako and Korra have both completely 180'd in character development.

@People in general; I don't hate Korra. I simply find her development lost and I'm sick of her moaning. Also, I've spent all this time talking about Korra and she's not actually the only problem I have with Book 2, but everyone seems so fixated on either attacking her for being a brat or defending her. Opinions are opinions, to me she lacks maturity that she should have.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
That's a big assumption to make since she undoubtably knows them a lot longer then the audience and Mako does. The script gives you the idea that even Varrick knows quite well how much use Lu and Gan generally are too.

And while I do not agree with the actions Mako took after Lin dismissed him, I think it's crazy to gie Mako crap because the script is stupid and then expect him to take a greater interest in what BOLIN is doing. Bolin's is 100% comic relief this season, nothing else. I don't know how this blogger could reasonably expect Mako to treat Bolin as a genuine human being in Peacekeepers.
It's not that big of an assumption to assume that incompetent/corrupt cops are still skilled enough at hiding their incompetence from their chief. If they couldn't, they likely still wouldn't be on the force. And it doesn't change the facts that they are going by the books in front of Lin while Mako didn't.
And Bolin has not been 100% comedy this Book, as the NYCC interview stated he trying to find himself and grow up and an adult. That's why he's trying out acting.


@People in general; I don't hate Korra. I simply find her development lost and I'm sick of her moaning. Also, I've spent all this time talking about Korra and she's not actually the only problem I have with Book 2, but everyone seems so fixated on either attacking her for being a brat or defending her. Opinions are opinions, to me she lacks maturity that she should have.
Well, I've repeatedly stated my (and others) opinions on the matter of Korra. And to me her actions in Book 2 while certainly rash and not always the best or right choices are understandable to justified and in line with her Book 1 development, thus I don't find her behavior to be immature or bratty. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on that subject.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
It's not that big of an assumption to assume that incompetent/corrupt cops are still skilled enough at hiding their incompetence from their chief. If they couldn't, they likely still wouldn't be on the force. And it doesn't change the facts that they are going by the books in front of Lin while Mako didn't.

I'm not disagreeing that Lin should fire Mako. I just don't believe Lin is unaware of what Lu and Gan are like. Having met them and everything.

And Bolin has not been 100% comedy this Book, as the NYCC interview stated he trying to find himself and grow up and an adult. That's why he's trying out acting.

That's what the interview says, that is not what I see on screen. Certainly not in the scenes in Peacekeeper or Civil War Part 2 with Mako and Bolin.
 
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