Definitive and Absolute Power Tier List.
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
He's superhuman but he has his limits, which has been shown several times in the Compilation. Just because he's superhuman doesn't mean he can shrug off lethal injuries. Zack was superhuman too but he still died just as normally as a regular man once shot in the head and chest several times.
Sephiroth had no reason to believe that Cloud would suddenly go bankai after having suffered enough fatal injuries to put him six feet under. Especially after having been able to have evaded and countered Cloud's original Omnislash in the first place.
Sephiroth had no reason to believe that Cloud would suddenly go bankai after having suffered enough fatal injuries to put him six feet under. Especially after having been able to have evaded and countered Cloud's original Omnislash in the first place.
Come on guys, you all know Sephiroth could have just phased through Cloud's sword-strikes(like he phased through the Shinra Cargo Ship's floor), used TK to freeze Cloud in place and crush all the bones of his body(like he did to every member of Avalanche simultaneously), and then kill him.
Cloud's sword and swordsmanship in ACC was only a threat to Sephiroth, because he 'allowed' it to be.
Cloud's sword and swordsmanship in ACC was only a threat to Sephiroth, because he 'allowed' it to be.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
That whole "phasing through" crap was done by Jenova's body, and really, it could have just been an illusion to make it appear as such. Jenova is a master illusionist. If Jenova can just phase through shit, why would it bother breaking through the enclosure of its tank? Why would Sephiroth bother using doors or breaking through solid objects?
As for his telekinesis, it didn't really work last time since Cloud and the others broke through it and didn't get their bones crushed.
Again. Everyone needs to stop looking through this fight through hindsight and realize Sephiroth did all that he could with his swordsmanship to kill the guy. The fucker impaled him twice and even went for his face and people still are trying to say he didn't really try to kill him? It's ridiculous. If Sephiroth had dropped a steam roller on Cloud, blew him up with Ultima, and then cast Meteor, and Cloud still had survived, people would still be saying he didn't really try to kill him.
Nothing short of Cloud dying would make people understand. Because people still can't seem to accept that Sephiroth lost and he'll keep losing cause he's not invincible.
As for his telekinesis, it didn't really work last time since Cloud and the others broke through it and didn't get their bones crushed.
Again. Everyone needs to stop looking through this fight through hindsight and realize Sephiroth did all that he could with his swordsmanship to kill the guy. The fucker impaled him twice and even went for his face and people still are trying to say he didn't really try to kill him? It's ridiculous. If Sephiroth had dropped a steam roller on Cloud, blew him up with Ultima, and then cast Meteor, and Cloud still had survived, people would still be saying he didn't really try to kill him.
Nothing short of Cloud dying would make people understand. Because people still can't seem to accept that Sephiroth lost and he'll keep losing cause he's not invincible.
Nope. It's because after watching Cloud needing the help of his friends and Materias to beat Safer Sephiroth, it's hard for people to accept that Cloud, alone and not using Materia, could beat an even stronger version of him, without Sephiroth being handicapped in some way.
It's too much suspension of disbelief, dude. Some people(like me) are just unnable to accept it.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Well you better cause that's just how it is. 
Sephiroth's not the only one who came back stronger either.
Sephiroth's not the only one who came back stronger either.
SOLDIERis1337
Pro Adventurer
While Sephiroth was using all of his swordsmanship in the battle, to say he wasn't holding back by not using his magic, lifestream, and telekinesis is kinda ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that he has control of something that stopped Meteor, he has incredibly powerful magics like Supernova, and his telekinesis could simply hold Cloud still or throw all sorts of lethal projectiles at him while still assaulting him with his blade. We've all already agreed that Sephiroth is at least a city buster, and he showed none of his skill on that scale in his fight with Cloud in ACC. All out swordsmanship =/= all out overall.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I don't see his fighting preference as holding back, because he was getting the job done rather well with his swordsmanship. He wasn't pulling his punches with his sword and seriously trying to murder Cloud. Why does he need to use fancy pyrotechnics when the blade's doing the job just as well?
If Sephiroth's main goal is to make Cloud suffer and to kill him, he doesn't need to blow up half of Midgar and leave a crater. All he's gotta do is inflict serious mental and physical pain, and kill him. And he did it in the most efficient way possible.
If Sephiroth's main goal is to make Cloud suffer and to kill him, he doesn't need to blow up half of Midgar and leave a crater. All he's gotta do is inflict serious mental and physical pain, and kill him. And he did it in the most efficient way possible.
SOLDIERis1337
Pro Adventurer
How is it not holding back? Sephiroth's actions are akin to a nation that has thermonuclear capabilities using it's infantry against a non nuclear opponent. It could decimate it's opponent instantly if all it did was push the button, but it chooses not to. Sephiroth's actions are the definition of holding back.
Seeing as how he could have held Cloud still with his telekinesis while piercing him with tentacles of negative make, bombarding him with Supernova level magic and then cutting his most likely already dead head off all at once, ending the fight before it started, he wasn't even close to being efficient in killing him. The fact is he held back to inflict more pain on his archnemesis.
Seeing as how he could have held Cloud still with his telekinesis while piercing him with tentacles of negative make, bombarding him with Supernova level magic and then cutting his most likely already dead head off all at once, ending the fight before it started, he wasn't even close to being efficient in killing him. The fact is he held back to inflict more pain on his archnemesis.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
You really think Cloud would die in one single move? Really?
SOLDIERis1337 said:
I hate to use copy-pasta but in this case I will since MOG said it best.
Sephiroth is the player of FFVI there. Why does he need to even bother using magic when he's literally tearing ass already? What would the point be?
Sephiroth is already decimating Cloud with his sword. What would be the point?
The telekinesis didn't work in FFVII, and with Cloud even stronger, why even bother? Especially when he can just stab him in the chest, torso, and face, and be done with it? He literally had no need to even bother. He just countered Omnislash and began his ownage.
That's all he did. Right when the opening appeared, he took it. That's not really indicative of using a handicap at all. Let alone holding back.
SOLDIERis1337
Pro Adventurer
Once again, if you're not using everything you have, you're holding back. That's quite literally it's definition.
Sephiroth's swordplay is to my previously mentioned countries infantry. Just because it's better than it's enemies infantry doesn't mean it's as powerful as a 20 megaton hydrogen bomb. Sephiroth's abilities could have done to cloud what an H-bomb would do to a battalion. The fact is he held back his best weapons because he felt his infantry was sufficient.
Sephiroth's swordplay is to my previously mentioned countries infantry. Just because it's better than it's enemies infantry doesn't mean it's as powerful as a 20 megaton hydrogen bomb. Sephiroth's abilities could have done to cloud what an H-bomb would do to a battalion. The fact is he held back his best weapons because he felt his infantry was sufficient.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
But why use more force than necessary? Especially when its "super effective?"
By that logic then, Cloud too was holding back.
In a fight, you're going to make choices on what's worth the effort in terms of its effectiveness, and what isn't. Fighters don't use every single technique they've ever known when going all out against someone. You have to pick and choose what works best.
By that logic then, Cloud too was holding back.
In a fight, you're going to make choices on what's worth the effort in terms of its effectiveness, and what isn't. Fighters don't use every single technique they've ever known when going all out against someone. You have to pick and choose what works best.
Dark and Divine
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- D&D
In my opinion, it makes perfect sense that Sephiroth only used his pshysical strength against Cloud.
Sephiroth's magical power would be great to cause mass destruction, like blowing up an entire city, wiping out an army or leave the planet in ruins.
But against Cloud, a single opponent, attacking with only his weapon and relying in his physical strength was the most effective and most direct way to fight his enemy.
Sephiroth's magical power would be great to cause mass destruction, like blowing up an entire city, wiping out an army or leave the planet in ruins.
But against Cloud, a single opponent, attacking with only his weapon and relying in his physical strength was the most effective and most direct way to fight his enemy.
SOLDIERis1337
Pro Adventurer
How is wasting time tormenting someone anywhere near as efficient as evaporating him before he can even try to hit you? If Sephiroth can wipe out Midgar, he can vaporize Cloud.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I highly doubt Sephiroth could literally vaporize Cloud immediately. The guy survived an extremely up close, kamikaze attack from Yazoo and Loz after enduring all the shit from Sephiroth and a bullet to the chest. If he was at full health, he more than likely would get back up.
Sephiroth didn't even really waste that much time. The minute Cloud got serious and tried to use Omnislash, Sephiroth countered and fucked his shit up hard.
But fair enough. By your logic, if you don't use all the moves and abilities at your advantage you're holding back. Okay. Cloud held back too then. So they're even.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Previous experience would say he is.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Cloud "got back up" from Supernova, didn't he? He got back up from a bullet through the heart, dammit!
Guys, "holding back" implies an action. It implies that Sephiroth is putting forth effort to not kill Cloud in one hit.
And Cloud, the cocky bastard, must have been holding back too because he didn't quadra magic Bahamut Zero and final attack+Phoenix and Knights of the Round Sephiroth's ass.
Guys, "holding back" implies an action. It implies that Sephiroth is putting forth effort to not kill Cloud in one hit.
And Cloud, the cocky bastard, must have been holding back too because he didn't quadra magic Bahamut Zero and final attack+Phoenix and Knights of the Round Sephiroth's ass.
SOLDIERis1337
Pro Adventurer
Mako, you're not making any sense. For starters, Cloud has nothing even close to city busting abilities, much less the better than city busting. And his durability has yet to show he could take even half a city vaporizing blast.
The Loz and Yazoo explosion didn't even destroy an entire building, and it would have killed him if Aerith hadn't sent him back from the lifestream. If Sephiroth hit him with a multimegaton level blast there wouldn't even be charred bones left of Cloud.
The Loz and Yazoo explosion didn't even destroy an entire building, and it would have killed him if Aerith hadn't sent him back from the lifestream. If Sephiroth hit him with a multimegaton level blast there wouldn't even be charred bones left of Cloud.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
But WHY would Sephiroth use an attack that destroys a city to kill Cloud? Why would he ever do that?
Going back to the country with a Nuclear bomb, would you use that bomb on a house full of some dudes with guns just so you didn't look like you were holding back?
Going back to the country with a Nuclear bomb, would you use that bomb on a house full of some dudes with guns just so you didn't look like you were holding back?
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Which attack of Sephiroth's has Cloud not endured that was capable of destroying a city? What are you talking about?
It is not gameplay nonsense. It is referenced several times in the materials and story as Sephiroth's unique and powerful limit break.
Give me an example of such an attack and how Cloud could not survive it.
And again, by your logic...Cloud held back too. Cloud did not use every single limit break against Sephiroth did he? So he held back. They both did.
Cloud was on the verge of death. He did not die and get revived.
What multimegaton blast does Sephiroth use that Cloud has not endured?
Deus
Banned
Look back a few pages. We agreed the amount of Negative Lifestream Sephiroth commands has to be at least about the same level as the bit that destroyed Meteor.
So all he'd have to do is wave his hand and have ti smack Cloud and he'd be destroyed pretty much instantly.
You also were the one who said Sephiroth was above cityblock busting. And Cloud couldn't take that either.