Disappointed in Mod Response

[Cat Rage Room]

Yes we have agreed to this a multitude of times but she keeps coming back, PMing me trying to be my friend, or leaving comments on my profile like her most recent one where I politely told her I didn't want to share my personal life with her and thus started her cycle of bullshit all over again. You guys just don't understand that she won't go the fuck away, and it's pretty irritating. It's irritating to a lot of people other than just me, as well.

No reason to get involved? Even though we reported this shit? Obviously if I reported it I saw it as a problem. And no one gave me any reply so I assumed you all just ignored me so I had to deal with this bullshit by myself and now I'm just fed up with it, and the fact that nothing is being done. I'm not asking you guys to ban her for what she did at CxA and Tumblr. I'm asking you to make her stop interacting with me here - period! and thank you for saying she will be banned 'next time' but you've said 'next time' before... how do I know this won't happen again when she predictably messages me that you guys won't say "lol next time" ???

You guys could have at least messaged me back about it. It was really upsetting that my reports went ignored.

Did you report it to any of us personally or via the moderation system? Anything sent directly to me gets my attention ASAP, but anything through the mod queue, well, I haven't seen it for a good, what, few weeks, because I just came back from being out to sea. How long as this been going on?

 

[Tifabelle]

I'm done with aaron. seriously I'm not responding to you anymore. You're pissing me off.

For one, I did read the "tl;dr" posts. Now, I don't remember much about past incidents. But, I'm pretty sure we never really stepped in before because it always seemed Celes and this girl would work things out before it got out of hand.

In fact in the VM that was posted on Celes' profile, the girl wrote she didn't want to hear from her again, and it seemed Celes was in agreement with that. So, again, no reason to get involved.

Yeah, after someone told you to read them. Things explode and they agree to leave each other alone, misty continues to message her, things explode again and they agree to leave each other alone, misty continues to message her. And round and round we go. But you're right. It resolves itself clearly.

We can't ban someone because of what he or she does on CxA and Tumblr. I still feel banning her for actions committed elsewhere is inappropriate. We're not there to monitor what's going on. Hell, most of the staff members were pretty clueless about what was going on between you two when the VM was reported.

I didn't ask for her to be banned for what happened elsewhere. I was using that to explain the situation here.

The VM was the start of it. And was enough alone to demand moderator action, regardless of history.

And I'm not sure how mods can be so clueless of the history when it's been made public on this very forum before. Mods were made aware of the last time there was an explosion on Tiff's profile. And of the PM harassment. So it shocks me how so many of you can be so caught off guard.

So, when this spilled onto the forum, I took a look at infractions she received in the past. She received a couple, neither of them were related to this. I pointed that out in staff, and I said she should be infracted. I made it clear if she acted out of line again she would be banned. I don't see how this "ignoring" the issue or saying we'll take care of it next time. She was infracted. Now, this isn't entirely up to me, but I don't see a reason for us to take further action unless there have been other incidents here that we don't know about.

Again, it didn't spill onto this forum. It started on this forum and spilled elsewhere.

If she was infracted last time this shit happened, this would be a different discussion. But she wasn't. Because you all thought the issue resolved itself for the 3000th time.

 

[Cookie Monster]

The reports wasn't being ignored. Because staff didn't really understand what was going on, we were still discussing it when it spilled onto the forum.

Also, when did we say we'd ban her "next time" before?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Also, this should be public dude, wtf.

If someone can ease my concerns that reading people's criticisms of her behaviour isn't just going to make her react even worse, or at least that this isn't the best of a number of bad options, then I'll have no problem moving it back out right now (although I wasn't the only staff member who wanted this moved out of public view). But I've raised a number of concerns above, which as far as I can tell no one has addressed.

You guys could have at least messaged me back about it. It was really upsetting that my reports went ignored.

We fucked up there, I'll be the first to admit. I seem to recall us actually saying something about telling people what we decide when they reports this, and I don't recall us ever once following through on this. I'm pretty awful at tact so I probably won't do it in the future, but I'll try to make sure other people follow through on it I guess.

But regardless, I'm still pretty miffed that no one asked us what we were doing about it before making a public thread. As I'm pretty sure we've said repeatedly, if anyone has any concerns with how their specific member complaints are being handled, they're always welcome to ask staff members privately.

How long as this been going on?

The latest round of drama has only been going on a couple of days. The first eruption happened a long time ago.

 

[Celes Chere]

If someone can ease my concerns that reading people's criticisms of her behaviour isn't just going to make her react even worse, or at least that this isn't the best of a number of bad options, then I'll have no problem moving it back out right now

Well, I think other people whom are not donators might have something to say - not just about Misty though, but about the staff. If she sees it, then she should at least see how serious this is right now - in fact, I would hope that she would be encourage to finally just quit with what she is doing already. And really, what is the worst she can do? Post a long rant of lies that none of us will believe anyway? She'll get mad, say she's quitting tls (again), and then perhaps it will all die down because she'll realize to just stfu already and let it go. Also it kinda sucks you just moved it without like... telling anyone about it? You were just like yeah moving this.

We fucked up there, I'll be the first to admit. I seem to recall us actually saying something about telling people what we decide when they reports this, and I don't recall us ever once following through on this. I'm pretty awful at tact so I probably won't do it in the future, but I'll try to make sure other people follow through on it I guess.

But regardless, I'm still pretty miffed that no one asked us what we were doing about it before making a public thread. As I'm pretty sure we've said repeatedly, if anyone has any concerns with how their specific member complaints are being handled, they're always welcome to ask staff members privately.

Thanks and also I reported her and after two days I got no response to my report so I figured you guys were just ignoring it. When I report things I never expect anything to actually happen but I do it just in case you guys actually do decide to do something lmao. Sorry you got miffed - but I thought you all were about us being open with how staff handles things? That's what was decided after that Ryu nonsese, so now let's handle the new nonsense - more importantly, let's end it for good because this shit is so old and I really am tired of it. I think we should let everyone say what they need to say, vent it all out, come to a resolution, and bury this.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Well, I think other people whom are not donators might have something to say - not just about Misty though, but about the staff. If she sees it, then she should at least see how serious this is right now - in fact, I would hope that she would be encourage to finally just quit with what she is doing already. And really, what is the worst she can do? Post a long rant of lies that none of us will believe anyway? She'll get mad, say she's quitting tls (again), and then perhaps it will all die down because she'll realize to just stfu already and let it go. Also it kinda sucks you just moved it without like... telling anyone about it? You were just like yeah moving this.

Mostly because other people had expressed concern that if she so much as saw the thread, it would explode. If I had taken the time to ask people, she might have logged on and seen it.

I certainly agree that people who aren't donators might have something to say about staff, and I've had no problem with the idea of someone summarising the discussion that isn't about Misty/whatever and bringing it into public. I just think that giving her more attention at this point would not be conducive to solving the problem and would be likely to result in conduct that would require several more infractions and possibly bans being given out, which I don't believe is what any of us want right now.

Thanks and also I reported her and after two days I got no response to my report so I figured you guys were just ignoring it.

She was given an infraction and told to stop contacting you about fifteen hours ago.

When I report things I never expect anything to actually happen but I do it just in case you guys actually do decide to do something lmao.

We read all reports. Any of them that actually break forum rules are given infractions (edit: or at least warnings if the person doesn't have many prior offences or the offence isn't particularly severe). Most of the time people don't hear about it though because we don't want infractions to be discussed publicly.

Sorry you got miffed - but I thought you all were about us being open with how staff handles things? That's what was decided after that Ryu nonsese, so now let's handle the new nonsense

Yeah like I said, I don't know what happened to that. I don't think we had to give out any infractions for like a month after we said we were going to be doing that so I guess we just forgot we had decided to do it.

more importantly, let's end it for good because this shit is so old and I really am tired of it. I think we should let everyone say what they need to say, vent it all out, come to a resolution, and bury this.

If I were confident that people could do this without violating the rules, I'd be all in favour of it. Unfortunately, the number of infractions we've had to give out over the past couple of days does not give me a great deal of confidence.

 

[Celes Chere]

She was given an infraction and told to stop contacting you about fifteen hours ago.

Yes I know, and I am grateful, but if you read carefully what I am trying to express here... the point is every time I reported her I was ignored, and then suddenly you guys responded by infracting us all and telling us not to cause drama. And thus came this thread, where we expressed our dislike of how things were handled. that's when you guys finally decided to do something. I think that's just sort of ridiculous. I'm not trying to be a b itch or anything but I think it's stupid you guys are saying it's unfair to ban her because she was not infracted first in the past. The point is, she should have been. And this crap shouldn't have escalated as much as it did.

but yeah thank you for what you guys HAVE done now. I just wish you had done it sooner.

also you're acting like you're afraid of her or something. O_o as I said the most she will do is go on a little tirade within the thread, pretend to quit tls, and then come back like everything is peaches and cream in a few days. I dont mind if she does, but she sure as hell better not be messaging me ever again

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Okay, too much being posted too quickly for me to do a multi-quote response, so my thoughts real quick:

-Thread should be public
-Little chance of it erupting into a disaster because a) everyone here knows they shouldn't get into a flame war or there will be infractions, and b) Kobato hopefully knows the same
-If it does start to erupt, those who let it do so will be asking for whatever happens, but they should be given the opportunity to screw up
-I know at least a few of us have followed up with members after decisions were made/carried out, but apparently not all of staff has been; that sucks
-As mentioned, Kobato has been told as clearly as possible to leave Tiff alone going forward, or its banville
-Tiff should probably put Kobato on ignore for good measure
-Love and peace

 

[Celes Chere]

I don't NEED to put her on ignore, I ignore her without the button lol

 

[Ⓐaron]

Yes I know, and I am grateful, but if you read carefully what I am trying to express here... the point is every time I reported her I was ignored, and then suddenly you guys responded by infracting us all and telling us not to cause drama. And thus came this thread, where we expressed our dislike of how things were handled. that's when you guys finally decided to do something. I think that's just sort of ridiculous. I'm not trying to be a b itch or anything but I think it's stupid you guys are saying it's unfair to ban her because she was not infracted first in the past. The point is, she should have been. And this crap shouldn't have escalated as much as it did.

Well, the thing is, from what I remember, every time in the past things had been brought up, it sounded like you two had just decided to stop talking to each other, so staff decided that giving out infractions would have created the risk of just stirring things up again. Granted, I tried not to involve myself in this in the past because I'd never felt like I had the full set of information, so I might not remember everything that happened.

also you're acting like you're afraid of her or something. O_o as I said the most she will do is go on a little tirade within the thread, pretend to quit tls, and then come back like everything is peaches and cream in a few days. I dont mind if she does, but she sure as hell better not be messaging me ever again

None of us are afraid of anyone. I just don't want to create a situation that would make it likely for people to post further infraction-worthy content, which is what I think this thread being in public would do. But if enough people think it's worth the risk of that, I'll move it back out I guess.

 

[Tennyo]

Yes I know, and I am grateful, but if you read carefully what I am trying to express here... the point is every time I reported her I was ignored, and then suddenly you guys responded by infracting us all and telling us not to cause drama. And thus came this thread, where we expressed our dislike of how things were handled. that's when you guys finally decided to do something. I think that's just sort of ridiculous. I'm not trying to be a b itch or anything but I think it's stupid you guys are saying it's unfair to ban her because she was not infracted first in the past. The point is, she should have been. And this crap shouldn't have escalated as much as it did.

but yeah thank you for what you guys HAVE done now. I just wish you had done it sooner.
__________________

However, in the past it still seemed like a private matter between members. We can't hand out infractions every time people have a fight. I remember then we figured you two would just put each other on ignore and it would be over. A couple days ago we felt the same.

But yeah we should have contacted you a couple days ago at the very least. The thought didn't cross my mind. Herp derp on me I admit it. It was a stupid thing to not do. :/

Do keep in mind as well that we can't control what people do outside of TLS. Her saying things about you on other forums and sending you messages over Tumblr are out of our control.

I'm going to stress this very strongly. Starting now, the two of you REALLY need to put each other on ignore. You will no longer receive messages from each other.

And oh yes, I'm going to tell her that she needs to do the same. Because honestly, from here on out she HAS to know that responding to you will bother you.

Also, majority says to make the thread public. Aaron, I think you've been outvoted. :/

I don't NEED to put her on ignore, I ignore her without the button lol

I was typing out my other post as all this was being said, but I need to stress this point.

Yes, you do need to put her on ignore.

Just as she needs to put you on ignore.

 

[Tifabelle]

-Thread should be public

Don't you guys vote or something?

-Little chance of it erupting into a disaster because a) everyone here knows they shouldn't get into a flame war or there will be infractions, and b) Kobato hopefully knows the same
-If it does start to erupt, those who let it do so will be asking for whatever happens, but they should be given the opportunity to screw up

Yeah, I really don't have any interest in things getting out of hand. When I made the thread I was quite calm and just expressing concern. Getting infracted felt pretty bad, ngl, so I don't think I'd be so stupid as to do it again. Even if she made a post or w/e.
People are responsible for their own actions. You can't make decisions based on things people MIGHT do. This is not minority report, man, lol.

-I know at least a few of us have followed up with members after decisions were made/carried out, but apparently not all of staff has been; that sucks

That's kind of one of my concerns? There was the whole issue over Ryu and mods made all these promises to be better. Members expressed their concerns and stuff. And just because nothing's happened since then is no excuse for it to have all been forgotten. Do you know how it feels as a member to realize this? It's very upsetting.

-Tiff should probably put Kobato on ignore for good measure

Does putting someone on an ignore list make it so they can't VM or PM you? I legit don't know, I've never used it.

-Love and peace

Tres for president.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Don't you guys vote or something?

Not really. A couple people had concerns about the thread being public, so it was moved. Now the consensus seems to be moving back in favour of having it public again. At this point I'm too exhausted to give a shit, though I still think having it in public is asking for trouble.

Does putting someone on an ignore list make it so they can't VM or PM you? I legit don't know, I've never used it.

Not currently, but it does mean you don't find out about them VMing or PMing you until you take them off ignore. (Well, unless you look at your profile while logged out, or someone tells you, I guess). I am looking for a hack that prevents even this from happening, and there are allusions on the vBulletin.org forums to one existing, but I can't find it. I could probably just write one if I were even slightly more skilful at php, but alas.

 

[Celes Chere]

I know you can't do anything about other Forums/sites/etc but that is not my point. I've shown the stuff she's done her on TLS, the other stuff was brought up just to prove the point that I have tried with her and it does not work there- it also does not work here either.

okay I'll put her on ignore then even though she could still VM and PM if she wanted (see pointless) after all of this pans out and hopefully that helps at least a bit, my hope is that after this thread that she will be done with bothering me, people's ideas of the staff might improve seeing you guys handling things better, and that people can just say what they need to say and this can be done.

 

[Tifabelle]

However, in the past it still seemed like a private matter between members. We can't hand out infractions every time people have a fight. I remember then we figured you two would just put each other on ignore and it would be over. A couple days ago we felt the same.

Members fighting should not be a private matter from mods. Especially if it's reported to them and they are made aware. And mods were very much made aware of it. Please stop using the term "private matter", it's irritating. And again, you guys think that issues resolve themselves. They don't. If you want to resolve an issue, you discuss it. Which is what I was trying to do here.

Do keep in mind as well that we can't control what people do outside of TLS. Her saying things about you on other forums and sending you messages over Tumblr are out of our control.

Yeah. No one's asking for her to be punished based on what happens outside the forum. It started here, went elsewhere, then came back here. And I brought it up because I was trying to explain why there was a negative reaction to her seemingly nice post.

I'm going to stress this very strongly. Starting now, the two of you REALLY need to put each other on ignore. You will no longer receive messages from each other.

And oh yes, I'm going to tell her that she needs to do the same. Because honestly, from here on out she HAS to know that responding to you will bother you.

Thank you Tenny. Hopefully this won't happen again.

It still bothers me that some mods don't know the situation when they were made aware of it months ago and it's happened before. I guess I don't understand how they don't know about it? But ok, moving on.

But my concerns about moderator action still exist. It's not just this; it's what happened a couple months ago with Ryu. And everyone forgot so easily all the things that were said. I didn't forget. I really took it all to heart, and felt like we had made progress. and it bothers me to see mods saying they forgot.

 

[Pixel]

Sorry, but i recommended this be moved to somewhere she cant see it. I didnt want to give her anymore attention. This thread is about how the situation has been handled by staff, right?

Ive had a stressful weekend, so i couldnt be bothered reading through any of this lol

 

[Ⓐaron]

Members fighting should not be a private matter from mods. Especially if it's reported to them and they are made aware. And mods were very much made aware of it. Please stop using the term "private matter", it's irritating. And again, you guys think that issues resolve themselves. They don't. If you want to resolve an issue, you discuss it. Which is what I was trying to do here.

We probably wouldn't have considered it a private matter if both parties hadn't come out it saying they would leave each other alone. As it was, it seemed like handing out infractions would just stir up resentment that was best left buried.

Of course, maybe the fact that this has happened multiple times should have been a clue. Live and learn I guess.

But my concerns about moderator action still exist. It's not just this; it's what happened a couple months ago with Ryu. And everyone forgot so easily all the things that were said. I didn't forget. I really took it all to heart, and felt like we had made progress. and it bothers me to see mods saying they forgot.

Well, like I said, if there had actually been any need to hand out warnings infractions at any time shortly after the Ryu incident, we probably would have gotten into the habit of contacting members who reported posts. But enough time elapsed that I guess everyone just forgot about it. I agree, we fucked up there. Hopefully we'll remember this in the future. That's probably the best that can be hoped for from this, I think.

 

[Ⓐaron]

This thread is about how the situation has been handled by staff, right?

That's what it's turned into, but there have also been several complaints about Kobato's conduct. If the staff discussion could be reliably cleaved from the rest of the thread I would have no problem moving it back, but I'm not sure that's possible. I think it would be easier just to all the discussion about staff that happened without mention of Kobato. But apparently most people think the thread should just be moved back and it's 5am, so you know, whatever.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It still bothers me that some mods don't know the situation when they were made aware of it months ago and it's happened before. I guess I don't understand how they don't know about it?

Well, like I said, I'm in and out to sea, which is why I asked for kinda a synopsis of events. I STILL feel like I'm in the dark.

 

[Tennyo]

okay I'll put her on ignore then even though she could still VM and PM if she wanted (see pointless) after all of this pans out and hopefully that helps at least a bit, my hope is that after this thread that she will be done with bothering me, people's ideas of the staff might improve seeing you guys handling things better, and that people can just say what they need to say and this can be done.

Well even if she does you shouldn't be able to see it. That's the point. And Aaron is working on that hack, so hopefully it will be fixed eventually.

Members fighting should not be a private matter from mods. Especially if it's reported to them and they are made aware. And mods were very much made aware of it. Please stop using the term "private matter", it's irritating. And again, you guys think that issues resolve themselves. They don't. If you want to resolve an issue, you discuss it. Which is what I was trying to do here.

Correct me if I'm wrong since it has been a few months, but I don't remember any of this taking place in public on the actual forum proper. And when BOTH parties say, "Don't message me I never want to talk to you again," in a somewhat private setting (yes, even VM's) what are we supposed to think?

 

[Celes Chere]

Sorry, but i recommended this be moved to somewhere she cant see it.

Pixie your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

it's 5am, so you know, whatever.

Spoiler

also Mog there's really no short version of the story, I would just read the thread if you really want to know

 

[Cthulhu]

tl;dr, at work atm, but if there has been harassment going on for months through PMs and visitor messages, why haven't they been reported? A very simple "I want this person off of TLS" would've sufficed, imho. Also, ignore lists if you're really bothered.

[/poast]

 

[Cat Rage Room]

also Mog there's really no short version of the story, I would just read the thread if you really want to know

I did, and I'm still really confused. I'm trying, I swear. When did this all start and why? Perhaps if I knew that I'd be able to make a more informed opinion.

 

[Celes Chere]

, but I don't remember any of this taking place in public on the actual forum proper

It did. And she was told to stfu then too. Tbh, I'm surprised I wasn't infracted then because I straight out told her she was full of shit on the Forum. But I guess no one cared enough to remember. *shrugs*

 

[Celes Chere]

tl;dr, at work atm, but if there has been harassment going on for months through PMs and visitor messages, why haven't they been reported? A very simple "I want this person off of TLS" would've sufficed, imho. Also, ignore lists if you're really bothered.

[/poast]

I am about to go fucking ape shit at this post. read the god damn thread or don't post at all.