Dissidia Duodecim Final Fantasy

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
LOL watchoo mean unwavering devotion & faith =/= Tifa? Play teh fucking game again.

Granted, it's exaggerated to the point it becomes dumb and nauseating here ("you...pointing your weapon at me? Well, that's fine, I'm sure deep down you LOOOOVE ME"), but it's Dissidia. They're all caricatures of their former selves.


Uh YEAH. SHE ISN'T. It's like I'm Batman says, Tifa loves Cloud deeply, but she never pretended to know what was going on with him. We see her question whether the man she was travelling with is really Cloud. When she sees Cloud in that wheelchair, her love>her doubts and decided to stick with him anyway.

THIS, where Kain is accused of being a traitor, he agrees with that monicker, kidnaps allies and threatens her life and she still cannot even entertain the possibility that he may not be anything other then a complete saint is not another example of that. It's just her stupidly acting completely out of character for the sake of an even stupider plot.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
More info on Kuja, he is so much better characterized in this game.

Very much agreed. In fact, Kuja's subplot in Report 1 has become my favorite of the game -- i.e. the only one I genuinely like.

I was a little (okay, no, a lot) confused at first as to why he went straight from telling Cloud that he had no interest in doing anything to Zidane to "setting him up" -- but then I figured out that Kuja was either really trying to help beat Chaos or just doing the same thing that Kain was.

Let me explain.

As you mentioned, he informs Zidane that beating Chaos would cause all of his servants to fall too. He also tells Zidane that this works both ways for Cosmos's team.

So, right here, Kuja has just given "the enemy" valuable information that he didn't have to share in order to get Zidane to trust him. Zidane already trusted him.

Despite Kuja attacking the warriors of Cosmos when the Emperor, Kefka and Ultimecia show up, I don't believe he was doing anything more than trying to protect them from being killed by the manikins.

Notice that with the villains on the scene, Kuja even tells Zidane to run: "Zidane, take your companions and go--." He does so again when he fights Zidane: "You should probably run--before you no longer can."

Now ignore the tone with which Kuja says that last one to Zidane and just look at what he's actually doing. He told his supposed enemy to run away twice after -- if this whole thing really were a trap to kill that enemy -- the "plan" had worked? It doesn't make sense.

Notice as well that Kuja tells Kefka to put the manikins away and says he'll do the fighting himself. Fighting which he wins -- and yet he still "fails" to kill not even one of the three warriors he'd just defeated before they escape?

It becomes pretty clear, I think, that Kuja didn't want Zidane and his companions to be defeated by manikins in this scene, so he decided to play the role of the treacherous schemer who lured them into a trap.

I think this comment to Kefka after the fighting cements that Kuja really did let them escape deliberately: "You think I let them slip through my fingers?"

Notice, as well, how depressed Kuja looks and sounds after the battle. In order to save Zidane and the others in that scene, he had to lose their trust.

The only question that really lingers is what was Kuja's original intention? Was he really trying to help them find a path straight to Chaos, or was his actual plan tied to what he told Cloud at the beginning of Report 1 -- when he asked him if he shouldn't kill Tifa in order to prevent another villain from doing it?

I think Kuja intended to either help defeat Chaos, or he was planning to lure Zidane and as many of the other warriors of Cosmos as he could into a trip to kill them himself so that the manikins couldn't. The fact that he didn't kill them after beating them in that scene, though, suggests that it was a genuine attempt to help defeat Chaos.

Anyway, when he realized his plan was blown, he took measures to protect his place in Chaos's ranks so that he could try again in the next cycle -- but, of course, his plan failed because Kefka set Kuja up for a fight he would lose, so that he would be dead at the end of the current cycle when Shinryu reset things. Apparently, Kefka could knew he could manipulate Kuja's memories when he showed up in the next cycle, and that's why we're stuck with a Kuja who's just a little bitch that hates Zidane in the first Dissidia/cycle 013.

By the way, concerning that whole cycle 020 thing ...
some folks on GameFAQs made the point that the Confessions of the Creator storyline is just an alternate, possible future like Inward Chaos was in the first game.

In the main timeline -- the 616 timeline, if you will (I know at least Dacon is going to get that reference) -- the canonical end could still be recognized as cycle 013.

Not that it makes the idea much less stupid. Really, Final Fantasy needed alternate timelines? What the bleeding piss is this?

Still, I'm slightly less pissed now.
 
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Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
Good to know about cycle 20 (is also a little less pissed...would be even less pissed if 012 showed up for download in the fucking PS store. Am I the only one having that problem?) And Dacon isn't the only one that reads Marvel, Tres. ^^
 
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Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Very much agreed. In fact, Kuja's subplot in Report 1 has become my favorite of the game -- i.e. the only one I genuinely like.

I was a little (okay, no, a lot) confused at first as to why he went straight from telling Cloud that he had no interest in doing anything to Zidane to "setting him up" -- but then I figured out that Kuja was either really trying to help beat Chaos or just doing the same thing that Kain was.

Let me explain.

As you mentioned, he informs Zidane that beating Chaos would cause all of his servants to fall too. He also tells Zidane that this works both ways for Cosmos's team.

So, right here, Kuja has just given "the enemy" valuable information that he didn't have to share in order to get Zidane to trust him. Zidane already trusted him.

Despite Kuja attacking the warriors of Cosmos when the Emperor, Kefka and Ultimecia show up, I don't believe he was doing anything more than trying to protect them from being killed by the manikins.

Notice that with the villains on the scene, Kuja even tells Zidane to run: "Zidane, take your companions and go--." He does so again when he fights Zidane: "You should probably run--before you no longer can."

Now ignore the tone with which Kuja says that last one to Zidane and just look at what he's actually doing. He told his supposed enemy to run away twice after -- if this whole thing really were a trap to kill that enemy -- the "plan" had worked? It doesn't make sense.

Notice as well that Kuja tells Kefka to put the manikins away and says he'll do the fighting himself. Fighting which he wins -- and yet he still "fails" to kill not even one of the three warriors he'd just defeated before they escape?

It becomes pretty clear, I think, that Kuja didn't want Zidane and his companions to be defeated by manikins in this scene, so he decided to play the role of the treacherous schemer who lured them into a trap.

I think this comment to Kefka after the fighting cements that Kuja really did let them escape deliberately: "You think I let them slip through my fingers?"

Notice, as well, how depressed Kuja looks and sounds after the battle. In order to save Zidane and the others in that scene, he had to lose their trust.

The only question that really lingers is what was Kuja's original intention? Was he really trying to help them find a path straight to Chaos, or was his actual plan tied to what he told Cloud at the beginning of Report 1 -- when he asked him if he shouldn't kill Tifa in order to prevent another villain from doing it?

I think Kuja intended to either help defeat Chaos, or he was planning to lure Zidane and as many of the other warriors of Cosmos as he could into a trip to kill them himself so that the manikins couldn't. The fact that he didn't kill them after beating them in that scene, though, suggests that it was a genuine attempt to help defeat Chaos.

Anyway, when he realized his plan was blown, he took measures to protect his place in Chaos's ranks so that he could try again in the next cycle -- but, of course, his plan failed because Kefka set Kuja up for a fight he would lose, so that he would be dead at the end of the current cycle when Shinryu reset things. Apparently, Kefka could knew he could manipulate Kuja's memories when he showed up in the next cycle, and that's why we're stuck with a Kuja who's just a little bitch that hates Zidane in the first Dissidia/cycle 013.

By the way, concerning that whole cycle 020 thing ...
some folks on GameFAQs made the point that the Confessions of the Creator storyline is just an alternate, possible future like Inward Chaos was in the first game.

In the main timeline -- the 616 timeline, if you will (I know at least Dacon is going to get that reference) -- the canonical end could still be recognized as cycle 013.

Not that it makes the idea much less stupid. Really, Final Fantasy needed alternate timelines? What the bleeding piss is this?

Still, I'm slightly less pissed now.

If it's so pointless why the fuck even include it? gah
 

Blizzstar657

Member of S.T.A.R.S
AKA
Blazefire Edge
Today's the motherfucking realese Date and I'm so fucking hyped! XD HELL TO THE YEAHS! THIS IS SO FUCKING GREAT! Well...I guess after School today, I'll walk to Gamestop pick it up and Play the fuck out of it! >XD
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
Very much agreed. In fact, Kuja's subplot in Report 1 has become my favorite of the game -- i.e. the only one I genuinely like.

I was a little (okay, no, a lot) confused at first as to why he went straight from telling Cloud that he had no interest in doing anything to Zidane to "setting him up" -- but then I figured out that Kuja was either really trying to help beat Chaos or just doing the same thing that Kain was.

Let me explain.

As you mentioned, he informs Zidane that beating Chaos would cause all of his servants to fall too. He also tells Zidane that this works both ways for Cosmos's team.

So, right here, Kuja has just given "the enemy" valuable information that he didn't have to share in order to get Zidane to trust him. Zidane already trusted him.

Despite Kuja attacking the warriors of Cosmos when the Emperor, Kefka and Ultimecia show up, I don't believe he was doing anything more than trying to protect them from being killed by the manikins.

Notice that with the villains on the scene, Kuja even tells Zidane to run: "Zidane, take your companions and go--." He does so again when he fights Zidane: "You should probably run--before you no longer can."

Now ignore the tone with which Kuja says that last one to Zidane and just look at what he's actually doing. He told his supposed enemy to run away twice after -- if this whole thing really were a trap to kill that enemy -- the "plan" had worked? It doesn't make sense.

Notice as well that Kuja tells Kefka to put the manikins away and says he'll do the fighting himself. Fighting which he wins -- and yet he still "fails" to kill not even one of the three warriors he'd just defeated before they escape?

It becomes pretty clear, I think, that Kuja didn't want Zidane and his companions to be defeated by manikins in this scene, so he decided to play the role of the treacherous schemer who lured them into a trap.

I think this comment to Kefka after the fighting cements that Kuja really did let them escape deliberately: "You think I let them slip through my fingers?"

Notice, as well, how depressed Kuja looks and sounds after the battle. In order to save Zidane and the others in that scene, he had to lose their trust.

The only question that really lingers is what was Kuja's original intention? Was he really trying to help them find a path straight to Chaos, or was his actual plan tied to what he told Cloud at the beginning of Report 1 -- when he asked him if he shouldn't kill Tifa in order to prevent another villain from doing it?

I think Kuja intended to either help defeat Chaos, or he was planning to lure Zidane and as many of the other warriors of Cosmos as he could into a trip to kill them himself so that the manikins couldn't. The fact that he didn't kill them after beating them in that scene, though, suggests that it was a genuine attempt to help defeat Chaos.

Anyway, when he realized his plan was blown, he took measures to protect his place in Chaos's ranks so that he could try again in the next cycle -- but, of course, his plan failed because Kefka set Kuja up for a fight he would lose, so that he would be dead at the end of the current cycle when Shinryu reset things. Apparently, Kefka could knew he could manipulate Kuja's memories when he showed up in the next cycle, and that's why we're stuck with a Kuja who's just a little bitch that hates Zidane in the first Dissidia/cycle 013.

By the way, concerning that whole cycle 020 thing ...
some folks on GameFAQs made the point that the Confessions of the Creator storyline is just an alternate, possible future like Inward Chaos was in the first game.

In the main timeline -- the 616 timeline, if you will (I know at least Dacon is going to get that reference) -- the canonical end could still be recognized as cycle 013.

Not that it makes the idea much less stupid. Really, Final Fantasy needed alternate timelines? What the bleeding piss is this?

Still, I'm slightly less pissed now.

Hey! Alternate timelines can be awesome! Sometimes. Maybe. On occasion.

That said I would like to get this game. The story doesn't look as bad as I first assumed, though really the writing needs help desperately. I mean come on. I could do better.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Arguably, the entire Dissidia series IS an Alternate timeline, so it Toying with the notion of alternate alternate timelines doesn't bug me too much.

Also, someone needs a Summon that calls them forth from an AU, just for shits and giggles.
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
Perssonaly I would love to see some fleshed out alternate timelines. Maybe one where Cloud got into SOLDIER for FFVII. One where Kuja didn't throw Zidan down to Gaia for FFIX. Things of that nature. Or maybe one where Squall does die when Edea ices him. Could be kinda cool to see how things would have gone under different circumstances.
 

kyrt

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I'm pretty sure there is some sort of fan made creation where things like that do happen.

game is out. Also each of the dlc codes is unique to each person (from what I hear)...however if you know someone else who has the game I don't see why sharing would be impossible. I wonder if it would be possible to share with uk...trade the cloud version for squall version or something.

Also is there any news for the aya brea costume for lightning? 3rd birthday is released next tuesday and the website does say Special: Coming Soon so I don't doubt that they will release it. I wonder if they will try to sell it as dlc. SE is probably trying to make up the money they lost from XIV.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Speaking of Crazy Alt Timeline ideas, Not sure why, but the idea that Lightning has an alternate self in the 13VS world- basically being Aya Brea in spirit there if not fact- has suddenly popped into my head.
You could do something with that- Getting flashes from her alt self, trying to figure out the weirdness from the bleedout.

As for Alt FF7 timelines, one of the biggest wrenches you can toss into the story IMO is Zack living. Not 'instead of Cloud' but add the extra Element of a Living Zack into the period of the game.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Also, someone needs a Summon that calls them forth from an AU, just for shits and giggles.

I was thinking about this when they announced Gilgamesh, because wasn't he a summon in the first Dissidia? I could be wrong about that, but I thought he was in there and that that had some interesting consequences if someone who had previously been a combatant became a summon for a subsequent round.
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
Speaking of Crazy Alt Timeline ideas, Not sure why, but the idea that Lightning has an alternate self in the 13VS world- basically being Aya Brea in spirit there if not fact- has suddenly popped into my head.
You could do something with that- Getting flashes from her alt self, trying to figure out the weirdness from the bleedout.

As for Alt FF7 timelines, one of the biggest wrenches you can toss into the story IMO is Zack living. Not 'instead of Cloud' but add the extra Element of a Living Zack into the period of the game.

I read a moderately good fanfiction revolving around that concept once. It was called 'The Decision between Life and Death'.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
Arguably, the entire Dissidia series IS an Alternate timeline, so it Toying with the notion of alternate alternate timelines doesn't bug me too much.

Nope, 012 pretty much confirms the Dissidia series is canon to the main timeline somehow - Yuna makes explicit reference to her travels with Tidus, Gilgamesh refers to his travels to other worlds, and Kuja and Zidane are (initially) on friendly terms like the end of FFIX. The original game toyed with this, but 012 pretty much confirms it.
 

Tifabelle

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tifabelle, Nathan Drake, Locke Cole, Kain Highwind, Yamcha, Arya Stark
I still contend that Dissidia is not canon despite Tres' essay :monster:

Force - Gilgamesh was a summon in dissidia, but I think that's one of those things that will go unaddressed. Like...just pretend it didn't happen :awesome:
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Its one of those things that if, no one retains their memories of the events, does it matter if its canon? (Again, with the exception of Garland, Chaos, and maybe Warrior of Light.)

Cloud's appearance in FFTactics, for instance. Tactics seems to make it fairly clear that Cloud is pulled from FF7's world while OD-ed on Lifestream, or thereabouts. So is it canon that he went there? Who knows, but would it matter if it were?
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I still contend that Dissidia is not canon despite Tres' essay :monster:

I still contend that you make insightful and poignant comments on every occasion except those where you disagree with me. :awesome:

Force - Gilgamesh was a summon in dissidia, but I think that's one of those things that will go unaddressed. Like...just pretend it didn't happen :awesome:

I don't think that it's that big of a deal, honestly. We can just assume he temporarily became a summon stone at some point between his disappearance back into the Rift and the time of his summon stone being discovered.

Or just not think about it that much, like you said. :monster:


By the way, guys, for those interested, here's
Cloud's death scene in English:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAO3vWUoF8A
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Today's the motherfucking realese Date and I'm so fucking hyped! XD HELL TO THE YEAHS! THIS IS SO FUCKING GREAT! Well...I guess after School today, I'll walk to Gamestop pick it up and Play the fuck out of it! >XD

And I actually have ... money to buy it!!! :joy:
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
There are no words for how disappointed I am.

EDIT: About the Cloud thing, not you getting the game Adrianna.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
RAGE, border problems mean Canada doesn't have it yet. >:

Also, RLC may have done a lame job, but it's Ali Hillis who gave us these two gems.

 
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