Doctor Who!!~

Mantichorus

"I've seen enough."
AKA
Kris; Mantichorus; Sam Vimes; Neku Sakuraba; Koki Kariya; Hazama; CuChulainn; Yu Narukami; Mewtwo; Rival Silver; Suicune; Kanata; Professor Oak; The Brigadier; VIII; The Engineer
Just a few thoughts on a few of the things that have been said in the past week.

It's worth remembering what the Silence said in Day of the Moon: "we have here since the Wheel and the Fire". This implies that the Silence are, as of 1969, stuck on Earth moving forwards through local time (at least, that's how I interperate it).

Also, can't lay a hand to the source, but I read somewhere that Amy's been the Ganger for the entire season to date. Does this mean she was replaced before she even received the Doctor's postcard? Although, it could be that she was replaced during one of the Silence breaks during The Impossible Astronaut.

EDIT
Unconfirmed, but I just saw Jenny (AKA the Doctor's Daughter) mentioned as appearing on the TVTropes page for AGMGTW. :O
 
Last edited:

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
HOLY FUCK, I WAS RIGHT!!!!!

Even down to the guess that there's nothing that they could do, because it already happened. It also explains why the Doctor's not surprised when she comes in the Space Suit to kill him. Oh my god.

Sorry, still quite surprised despite the fact that I wrote that whole theory that it was actually correct for once.

Interesting that "The Only Water in the Forest is the River" was a bit different than I'd imagined though. Curious where this puts things, but they still have to save him. I figure that he starts running faster than he's ever run before when he knows that he's gonna die & that'll be the next arc.


Smashing episode. Absolutely satisfied until September. Bursting with excitement.







X :neo:
 

sheens

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Sheens, Mooglet
Really pleased with this mid-season finale! The reveal for me came when Lorna (Gamma Forest) gave Amy the prayer leaf along with Melody's name. I dunno why: "The only water in the forest is the River" thing clicked with me right then. But then again, I always believed that River was Amy's daughter.

At the beginning of the episode though, when Amy was talking to River/Melody I genuinely believed that she was talking about The Doctor, and was so glad when she said The Last Centurion instead XD I've grown to love BAMF Rory, so would have been gutted if Doctor was the daddy.

So we do have a Time Head baby! Sad for Amy though she was a Flesh baby. (Totally shocked me that btw.)

Also, this means she can regenerate, as I too believe she is the little girl; then again we know Moffat. :P I've seen posts somewhere saying SHE LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THEM. Which irks me.

COME ON SEPTEMBER.

Can't help but grin a little when I have to type "spoiler"
 

Sheva Alomar

I'm Alive and on Fire
AKA
Adri, Sir Integra, Fiona, Sango
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I WAS SO FUCKING RIGHT, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
 

Max Caulfield

shaka brah
AKA
Chi, Trollzaya, Dean Winchester, Black Widow
Called it. But still, holy fuck. I really hoped we'd get to find out who River killed (I still think it's the Doctor) but I guess not. Fucking Moffat.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Called it. But still, holy fuck. I really hoped we'd get to find out who River killed (I still think it's the Doctor) but I guess not. Fucking Moffat.

Moffat's Twitter post yesterday seems like it was directed at you.

"For all of you who keep on, yes, you will find out who River is tomorrow. Thing is though - was that what you were REALLY asking?" :awesome:


X :neo:
 

Alex

alex is dead
AKA
Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
Not enough good things can be said about this episode.

I am so damn thankful that the Cybermen, Sontarans and Silurians were reduced to cameo roles and individual characters rather than being at the heart of the episode.
 

Alex

alex is dead
AKA
Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
Dorium from A Good Man Goes to War and The Pandorica Opens will reappear in Episode 13 (as yet untitled).

Perhaps even more intriguing though is the revelation that Mark Gatiss has been cast for the episode. Gatiss has already been in the new series (and written a good few episodes) of Doctor Who as Professor Lazarus a few seasons ago, but I'm pretty damn sure he won't be reprising that particular role.

But yeah, STUFF! Gatiss is always good to watch. He was awesome in Moffat's Sherlock.

sauce: http://www.cultbox.co.uk/interviews/exclusives/1153-simon-fisher-becker-doctor-who-interview
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
That soldier chick was a nice red herring. Kept thinking she'd kill the Doctor and get charted of to Storm Cage. Guess we'll see her as a young girl in a later episode?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Or maybe we already have!


And yeah, excellent double bluff Moffat. Hide things in such plain sight and people begin to second guess.

As for the Good man she killed- yes, there's a very good chance it was the Doctor. With the Spacesuit.
 
Last edited:

Sheva Alomar

I'm Alive and on Fire
AKA
Adri, Sir Integra, Fiona, Sango
Well her killing the Doctor as a small girl with the spacesuit would make sense. She would be imprisoned all her life, being treated as an extremely lethal weapon, hence being stuck at Stormcage.
 

Russell

.. ? ..
AKA
King of the Potato People
Rory = Badass



Fast forward to 3:30, to see Rory ask: "Would you like me to repeat the question?"

:awesome:
 
AKA
L, Castiel, Scotty Mc Dickerson
I actually thought the best part of the episode was that few seconds of Rory appearing in front of the cybermen.
Having him dressed as the last centurion is just amazing though, even when River see's him in the outfit you can see the reaction it gives her.

Anyone else think the real reason the Dr buggers off before River tells Rory & Amy who she really is, is because he is worried they might try and beat the crap out of him for his future being involved with their daughter?
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I love how Rory gets to be an absolute badass this episode, but he still tears up when he sees Amy, and brings little Melody to her. The moment when he poses with the sword and gun against the Headless Monks is the second best shot of him ever (next to the Cybermen one).

It made me laught when the Doctor gets all giddy when he figures out who River is, and that he's actually been travelling with his girlfriend's parents, and straightens his suit out and asks how he looks before turning around. I find it especially funny that they have this relationship now, given that Rory is technically older than he is too having lived in another life for ~2000 years.

I think the Doctor ran off to give the family their first moment together. Melody's never been able to tell her parents anything this entire time, and the Ponds just lost her moments ago. It's got to be an incredibly confusing and exciting time for them as a family. My question is; How did River get there? Does she still have her Vortex Manipulator from vanishing at the end of her parents' wedding, or something else?

Either way, I can hardly wait to go watch the River Song episodes in order (aside from her little self also appearing in 1969 and looping everything 'round). Knowing all the relationships is going to make it incredibly interesting.

• A Good Man Goes to War.
• The Impossible Astronaut.
• Day of the Moon.
• The Pandorica Opens.
• The Big Bang.
• (The Lodger).
• Time of the Angels.
• Flesh & Stone.
• Silence in the Library.
• The Forest of the Dead.


X :neo:
 

Mantichorus

"I've seen enough."
AKA
Kris; Mantichorus; Sam Vimes; Neku Sakuraba; Koki Kariya; Hazama; CuChulainn; Yu Narukami; Mewtwo; Rival Silver; Suicune; Kanata; Professor Oak; The Brigadier; VIII; The Engineer
[spoiler="They won't see this coming" ~Mal Reynolds]

I am now convinced that the staff of Doctor Who are complete morons. Every actor interviewed before the airing of A Good Man Goes To War said that they were utterly surprised by the "twist" of River's identity, and Steven Moffat said that no-one would guess it (hence the Serenity quote).

Some of you nailed it, and you're far from the only ones who guessed it -- in fact, a quick look at the TVTropes recap page for the ep says that at the "revelation" had people across the UK going "I knew it" (AKA the Adri Response). And although I put all theories as to River's identity to one side before watching, almost the whole episode seemed to be trying to tell us this fact from the beginning.

It might have been better if the reveal wasn't so clumsily handled. I also find it hard to believe that the Doctor was able to carve Melody Pond in Gallifreyan onto the crib with such short notice.

Oh well. What did I like about the episode?

Almost everything else. Amy's monologue about Rory to Melody was awesome, and was immediately upped by Rory staring down a group of Cybermen. "WHERE. IS. MY. WIFE? Oh, don't give me those blank looks..." Could that sequence get more awesome? Well, yes, the Doctor has a message: there goes the rest of the fleet. Do you want Rory to repeat the question?

OK, Jenny wasn't the Doctor's daughter, but the maid of a Victorian Silurian adventuress. Who ate apprehended Jack the Ripper. (In one of the Seventh Doctor novels, it's the Doctor himself who catches Jack the Ripper. Who was actually the Valeyard.)

The Sontaran combat medic was without a doubt, my favourite new character in the episode. Especially as he had a Welsh lilt. There was one bit that I didn't like regarding him, though - while he was dying, and Rory called him a warrior, before the Sontaran derisively described himself as a nurse. Rory should have said "so am I" (or as TVTropes has it "you can be both. I am").

The Doctor is not a trickster? Wow, where have they been? I loved how his revenge was to have the Colonel sound the retreat with the words "run away". Again, this was one point that niggled me - the whole trap set-up. Half the reason they seemed to be doing it was because of stuff that the Doctor, at this point in his life, hasn't done yet. They may have triggered the very acts that make them so terrified of him.

I loved the idea that the reason that so many worlds call someone who makes things better "doctor" is because of the Doctor. And the fact that in the Gamma Forests it means "great warrior". Incidentally, I think the events in the Gamma Forests are in the Doctor's future as he didn't recognise her, rather than he'd forgotten her. It also makes me wonder what "nurse" means in the Gamma Forests. "Last Centurion", maybe? :awesome:

Oh, and the saying/rhyme. While awesome, I think this "oldest saying" was created by Moffat, much as the old lycanthropic folk rhyme "even he who is pure of heart..." was created for The Wolf Man.[/spoiler]
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
[spoiler="They won't see this coming" ~Mal Reynolds]

I am now convinced that the staff of Doctor Who are complete morons. Every actor interviewed before the airing of A Good Man Goes To War said that they were utterly surprised by the "twist" of River's identity, and Steven Moffat said that no-one would guess it (hence the Serenity quote).
[/spoiler]

Moffat said that even his 9 year old had it figured out by the Second episode of Series 6. Rory even guessed it on the set of Impossible Astronaut. I think they kept it going to keep people curious, and the double bluff seems to have kept the tension well.

Also: Does anyone find River's quote from "Forest of the Dead" to suddenly be very applicable with what's to come?

When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it will never end. But however hard you try, you can't run forever. Everybody knows that everybody dies. And nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever, for one moment, accepts it.


X :neo:
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I love how Rory gets to be an absolute badass this episode, but he still tears up when he sees Amy, and brings little Melody to her. The moment when he poses with the sword and gun against the Headless Monks is the second best shot of him ever (next to the Cybermen one).

It made me laught when the Doctor gets all giddy when he figures out who River is, and that he's actually been travelling with his girlfriend's parents, and straightens his suit out and asks how he looks before turning around. I find it especially funny that they have this relationship now, given that Rory is technically older than he is too having lived in another life for ~2000 years.

I think the Doctor ran off to give the family their first moment together. Melody's never been able to tell her parents anything this entire time, and the Ponds just lost her moments ago. It's got to be an incredibly confusing and exciting time for them as a family. My question is; How did River get there? Does she still have her Vortex Manipulator from vanishing at the end of her parents' wedding, or something else?

Either way, I can hardly wait to go watch the River Song episodes in order (aside from her little self also appearing in 1969 and looping everything 'round). Knowing all the relationships is going to make it incredibly interesting.

• A Good Man Goes to War.
• The Impossible Astronaut.
• Day of the Moon.
• The Pandorica Opens.
• The Big Bang.
• (The Lodger).
• Time of the Angels.
• Flesh & Stone.
• Silence in the Library.
• The Forest of the Dead.


X :neo:

I'm going to wait a bit for that. And I plan on watching Imposs/Moon twice in that rotation.

Moffat said that even his 9 year old had it figured out by the Second episode of Series 6. Rory even guessed it on the set of Impossible Astronaut. I think they kept it going to keep people curious, and the double bluff seems to have kept the tension well.

Also: Does anyone find River's quote from "Forest of the Dead" to suddenly be very applicable with what's to come?

When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it will never end. But however hard you try, you can't run forever. Everybody knows that everybody dies. And nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever, for one moment, accepts it.


X :neo:
Yes, the double bluff was excellent. If you reread, I expressed my reservations re: River Pond because it seemed far too obvious, that it made too much sense and where was the reveal in that?

Incidentally, I was actually kinda hoping that Laura, the Soldier, would make a recovery, so she could replace the current River later on, in a triple bluff sort of situation. Mostly because, for some reason, she felt perfect in a way River still doesn't quite (actress, not character) to be the child of Rory and Amy.
 
AKA
L, Castiel, Scotty Mc Dickerson
Only issues I have with the current plotline
We now see that River is part timelord and from the silence episodes we can also see that she has the ability to regenerate. That in mind if the child in the astronaut suit is her (pretty obvious it is now) why does the Dr allow her to interact with herself during his death.

If you think back to the tennant episodes surrounding Rose and her father you see his beliefs about trying to change your own timeline as well as having two versions of the same person existing in the same timeline.

River should know from the get-go exactly what is happening and not be chasing after herself shooting her pistol.

That in mind im assuming that during her own demise the reason she doesn't regenerate is because her body no longer exists?
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I'm going to wait a bit for that. And I plan on watching Imposs/Moon twice in that rotation.

Twice in what order? or just to cover the her being little Melody Pond, regenerating and then her being River Song?

Only issues I have with the current plotline
We now see that River is part timelord and from the silence episodes we can also see that she has the ability to regenerate. That in mind if the child in the astronaut suit is her (pretty obvious it is now) why does the Dr allow her to interact with herself during his death.

If you think back to the tennant episodes surrounding Rose and her father you see his beliefs about trying to change your own timeline as well as having two versions of the same person existing in the same timeline.

River should know from the get-go exactly what is happening and not be chasing after herself shooting her pistol.

That in mind im assuming that during her own demise the reason she doesn't regenerate is because her body no longer exists?


That's also been making me curious. River's aware of the nature of generating a paradox, as well as the Blinovitch Limitation Effect, which is why she doesn't interfere with the events in this episode until the VERY end. I doubt Moffat would make that mistake, as it's something he's been mindful of in the past.

There's a clue that the suit may have been able to move autonomously, but if it was empty, one would assume it'd have attempted to take the Doctor afterwards. River also says something along the lines of, "No, of course it wouldn't..." after shooting at the suit retreating into the lake, and I assume that means something. The Doctor also tells them not to interfere, and he couldn't stop her shooting, as he was deceased by then. Interested to see how this plays out, and fills in the question of who blew up the TARDIS, and the Cracks in Time as well.


When she dies in the Library, (if that's what you're referencing) it's because the Doctor wouldn't have been able to either:

The Doctor: I'll hook myself up to the computer, she can borrow my memory space.
River: Difficult. It'll kill you stone dead!
The Doctor: Yes, easy to criticize.
River: It'll stop both of your hearts and don't think you'll regenerate!
The Doctor: I'll try my hardest not to die, honestly. It's my main thing.
River: Doctor—
The Doctor: I'm right, this works. Shut up.


They're done from memory and the episode quotes, so they're probably not complete.

• A Good Man Goes to War.
- River Song arrives on Demon's Run and reveals to her family that she is Melody Pond: Amy & Rory's Daughter.
- River goes on a date for her birthday with the future Doctor.
- River meets with Rory, who doesn't know who she is, and has to refuse to meet with him & the Doctor at Demon's Run to avoid interfering with her own past and creating a Paradox and/or violating the Blinovitch Limitation Effect.

• The Impossible Astronaut
- River receives a letter calling her to America and leaves Stormcage.
- She gets to meet the 1,103 year old Doctor who has fully experienced her life.
- River sees the Doctor she knows and loves get killed, by the young Melody Pond in a space suit.
- She destroys his body, knowing the people who raised her would do anything to get a hold of enough of him to construct another Time Lord as a weapon.
- She meets with the 908 year old Doctor current to Amy & Rory's time.
- They travel to the White House, and she assists the Doctor with running the TARDIS in stealth mode.
- They encounter the Silence and a young Melody Pond still in her space suit in Florida.

• Day of the Moon
- She begins investigating the Silence for 3 months before meeting up with the Doctor when diving off of a building.
- They rescue Amy from the Silence.
- River kills all the Silence on board the Time Engine.
- The Time engine falls back in time and disguises itself as the second floor of a flat.
- River returns to Stormcage and kisses the Doctor for the last time.
- (Young Melody Pond escapes from the Silence and regenerates).

• The Pandorica Opens
- River receives a message directed from the TARDIS about its destruction.
- She 'negotiates' with Dorium Maldovar to obtain a Time Agent's Vortex Manipulator.
- She leaves a message for the Doctor at the beginning of time to come meet her in 1AD.
- She disguises herself as Cleopatra and hides with the Romans.
- She and the Doctor discover the Pandorica.
- Something traps her inside the TARDIS and directs it back to her mother's home on 6/26/2010.
- She investigates, and something has landed outside, and been through the house, and used the items to construct the scenario.
- She attempts to leave, and the TARDIS is blown up, creating the cracks in time and space.

• The Big Bang
- The Doctor escapes and saves River from the TARDIS by using her Vortex Manipulator.
- They arrive in the starless universe and battle the Dalek revived by the Pandorica's regeneration field.
- The Dalek grievously injures the Doctor.
- River Song kills the Dalek who shot the Doctor.
- The Doctor reboots the universe by hurling the Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS and stopping the crack in time and space from spreading.
- River gives her blank diary to her mother as a present on her wedding day.
- The Doctor comes back, as do all of the notes in River's Journal.
- River accepts the Doctor's indirect marriage proposal.
- River lets the Doctor know that he'll find out who she is, and vanishes with her Vortex Manipulator.

• (The Lodger)
- The Silence's Time Engine prevents the Doctor from landing properly, and leaves Amy standed on the TARDIS.
- (No other relation aside from the fate of the Time Engine).

• Time of the Angels
- River leaves a note for the Doctor in High Gallifreyan on the Home Box of the Byzantium - a ship carrying the last of the Weeping Angels.
- The Doctor and Amy find the note in the Delirium Archive - a museum constructed on Demon's Run.
- They save River from the ship, and she pilots the TARDIS to Alfava Metraxis, where they encounter Father Octavian & his Clerics.
- The encounter the Weeping Angels, who begin killing off the troops by snapping their necks rather than displacing them in time - an assassination method that is uncharacteristic of Angels, especially ones that are starved for energy.

• Flesh & Stone
- River and the Doctor trick the angels into the crack in time and space.
- River foreshadows to Amy & the Doctor about the Pandorica.
- River is taken back up in the prison ship in handcuffs, hoping to have done enough to earn a pardon.

• Silence in the Library
- Professor River Song leaves a message for the Doctor, but it arrives too early.
- They encounter the Vashta Nerada in the Library.
- Much of River's team gets killed.

• The Forest of the Dead.
- River handcuffs the Doctor to prevent him from stopping her.
- River dies using her mind to restore the 4022 survivors, unable to Regenerate.
- The Doctor saves her mind from his screwdriver and uploads her to CAL, along with the rest of her team.


X :neo:
 
AKA
L, Castiel, Scotty Mc Dickerson
I understand the basic principle of the regenerations is that as the body dies the regeneration begins and recreates a new body for the doctor. In river's case her death was immediate and her personality kept within the data recorder and then placed within the AI of the library to essentially keep her alive forever.

Im just curious if they are going to try and make it out that this is not the end of River and they try to put her back into the plot more.

Her talk with Tennant essentially created the idea that before she came and met him in the library she had killed him once and for all. Afterall he has died several times in the past an I hardly think she would be incarcerated for her entire life on the basis she killed just one of his regenerations.

Also anyone else thinking his death will somehome be related to the Master's rise in the last series?
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Funny thing is, this means you've always known how I was going to die. All the time we've been together you knew I was coming here. The last time I saw you—the real you, the future you, I mean—you turned up on my doorstep with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to Derillium. To see the Singing Towers. Oh, what a night that was. The towers sang, and you cried. You wouldn't tell me why but I suppose you knew it was time. My time. Time to come to the Library. You even gave me your screwdriver. That should have been a clue. There's nothing you can do.

Interesting thing is that we'll seemingly have to see that screwdriver & his haircut before that he dies, unless they blow through the 200 years of him running. I'm wondering if this means that the Ponds and their daughter will be leaving after this season.

I haven't thought of it compared to the Master's Rise, but there's GOT to be something going on. They're quite good points.


X :neo:
 
Top Bottom