Super Mario
IT'S A ME!
- AKA
- Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Whenever I hear Adele's Skyfall, it reminds me of Amy and Rory's loss. 
Doctor Who!!~
- Thread starter Mantichorus
- Start date
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
If you guys think being cut off in the past with no chance of ever seeing your family or anyone you know ever again is a happy ending I don't know what to tell you. Yes, Amy and Rory had each other, but that is literally all they had. It's a monstrously depressing prospect for the future and pretty much underscores what makes the Weeping Angels so scary in the first place.
Super Mario
IT'S A ME!
- AKA
- Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Not to mention alot of paperwork and finding living. Their lives at the start definitely was hell.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Come on, they got a definitively happy ending. What we hope for every good companion to get. It was tragic for the Doctor, but not nearly as much for them. For that matter, Amy willingly chose that fate out of preference.
Super Mario
IT'S A ME!
- AKA
- Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Nah, it's a fate worse than death for me as per what Aaron described and as per what I said. What even sucks is that by logic, he as a fucking TARDIS to undo that damage but did not do it because of some excuse which I believe was kind of lame. That's what TARDISes can do! time travel! just go to the past and locate them! sure it would be bothersome, but you can pull them out stat before anything happens!
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
@Tres:
I wouldn't go QUITE that far.
Amy chose to not let Rory live out his whole life and then die alone, because she loved him more than anything else. Not only did they get trapped already knowing Rory's fate, they also got cut off from everyone else they cared for and never got to speak with them again. (P.S. is the downright heart wrenching example of that and how it affects them and the ones they left behind). That's FAR from the worst it could be, but it's still a rough fate, and like Aaron said, it's the whole reason that the Weeping Angels are terrifying - they don't (typically) kill you, they just displace you away from everyone you know & love and feed on that temporal energy.
By comparison, Donna's 'fate' is a downright happy little fairy tale: She doesn't even remember what got taken away from her to miss it the whole rest of her life, she got to stay in her home with her friends, family, and loved ones, AND be happily married and win the lottery. Amy & Rory kept each other. That's it.
@IronMan:
It isn't like the Doctor could just save them. The TARDIS had a near impossible time getting there to begin with, not to mention that the whole year got locked out because of all the time loops and paradoxes from the Weeping Angels feeding on the time energy there in such huge amounts. Even if the Doctor landed in an earlier year and waited, it still involves sneaking into a New York City that's entirely overrun by Weeping Angels, and Rory is still trapped there because they'd already seen him die, and their attempt at breaking his paradox failed.
X
I wouldn't go QUITE that far.
Amy chose to not let Rory live out his whole life and then die alone, because she loved him more than anything else. Not only did they get trapped already knowing Rory's fate, they also got cut off from everyone else they cared for and never got to speak with them again. (P.S. is the downright heart wrenching example of that and how it affects them and the ones they left behind). That's FAR from the worst it could be, but it's still a rough fate, and like Aaron said, it's the whole reason that the Weeping Angels are terrifying - they don't (typically) kill you, they just displace you away from everyone you know & love and feed on that temporal energy.
By comparison, Donna's 'fate' is a downright happy little fairy tale: She doesn't even remember what got taken away from her to miss it the whole rest of her life, she got to stay in her home with her friends, family, and loved ones, AND be happily married and win the lottery. Amy & Rory kept each other. That's it.
@IronMan:
It isn't like the Doctor could just save them. The TARDIS had a near impossible time getting there to begin with, not to mention that the whole year got locked out because of all the time loops and paradoxes from the Weeping Angels feeding on the time energy there in such huge amounts. Even if the Doctor landed in an earlier year and waited, it still involves sneaking into a New York City that's entirely overrun by Weeping Angels, and Rory is still trapped there because they'd already seen him die, and their attempt at breaking his paradox failed.
X
Ami
Playing All The Stuff!
- AKA
- Amizon, Commander Shepard, Ellie, Rinoa Heartilly, Xena, Clara Oswald, Gamora, Lana Kane, Tifa Lockhart, Jodie Holmes, Chloe Price.
The Doctor can't go and undo every single little thing, as sad and tragic as that sounds. It's what makes him human at the end of the day.
Amy and Rory's ending was incredibly bittersweet, but they were still together. Between the Doctor and Rory, she would always choose Rory. Now if it happened a lot earlier in the series, maybe the choice might've been different.
As for the Donna, it's the most heartbreaking ending for me after Rose. The fact that she's the most important woman in the world, but can never know is devastating.
Amy and Rory's ending was incredibly bittersweet, but they were still together. Between the Doctor and Rory, she would always choose Rory. Now if it happened a lot earlier in the series, maybe the choice might've been different.
As for the Donna, it's the most heartbreaking ending for me after Rose. The fact that she's the most important woman in the world, but can never know is devastating.
Super Mario
IT'S A ME!
- AKA
- Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Ayyy there always would have been a better way! I will never accept that shitty ending they did to two well rounded people. I solemnly feel It was only a shittt cheapshot by Moffat by removing my two favourites in the most idiotic way to the point that even I went on a BSOD as well from doctor who till john hurt was announced for specials. There would have been many many methods to extract them without paradoxical issues. I just am expressing my utter bitterness to how they were removed to the point that suggesting their deaths be by Dalek/Cybermen firing squads or hell even the master mentally scarring them for life be a better outcome.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
Donna had her whole new self taken from her. Turn Left showcases that Donna had very little sense of selfworth before she met the Doctor. She had admitted to her mother she was a disappointment who vocally agreed. When Rose tried to convince her she was special she bursted into tears when she got the impression they only cared about the scarab. Well now she's been forced (until Amy she did not choose it) to go back to being that person.
Until 2013 when the TARDIS appeared on television and she died instantly off course.
Carlie
CltrAltDelicious
- AKA
- Chloe Frazer
@Tres:By comparison, Donna's 'fate' is a downright happy little fairy tale: She doesn't even remember what got taken away from her to miss it the whole rest of her life, she got to stay in her home with her friends, family, and loved ones, AND be happily married and win the lottery. Amy & Rory kept each other. That's it.
X
Gonna have to disagree here. The fact Donna can never remember all the amazing things she did makes all the more heartbreaking. Like Minato said she had her new identity forcibly taken from her, a fate the she considered worse than death. As shown during her run Donna had very little sense of selfworth before her time with the Doctor and then she had to go back to that never knowing how she saved all of reality, that a Time Lord considered his best mate and she can never appease the Doctor's guilt for what he did to her because she doesn't know.
Novus
Pro Adventurer
Moffat is known as the 'everyone lives' guy, he even saved Jenny (The Doctor's daughter) and he didn't even write it. Hell he brought Strax back from the dead without an explanation. He does the same thing in Sherlock as well, see the Irene Adler episode, or Jekyll.
I think it's deliberate personally, a type of signature.
I think it's deliberate personally, a type of signature.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Yes, but we see later on that Donna gets that appreciation elsewhere from her new husband & family and her life turns out just lovely - even without knowing who she was to the Doctor, because he still finds ways to help her - like winning the lottery. Her not knowing what happened with Doctor is literally a non-factor in her life, because the people around her help her rediscover that sense of self worth BECAUSE she doesn't know. Hell, it's more of a consequence for Wilf than it is for her, since he wants to be able to tell her and can't. She still ends up WAY better off than she was before she met the Doctor.
Amy & Rory get left remembering all of that and knowing that everyone they love isn't and can't come to help them, and every single thing that they'll never see again. Even just looking at family, Brian Williams got it SO much worse than Wilf, because he helped convince Amy & Rory to keep traveling with the Doctor, and as a result, ended up getting both of them taken from him and left with a letter & an adopted grandson older than he is - just a week later. No warnings, no real goodbyes, no reconciliation, nothing. The big difference here is that (as soon as the Doctor fixes the cracks in the universe), Amy, Rory, Brian, (& assumedly Amy's parents) don't all end up better off. Not by a LONG shot.
The whole thing to me is that what Donna REALLY loses is her sense of self worth and that's something that she gets back elsewhere, and even has a little help from the Doctor by proxy in doing so. Amy & Rory lose their home, possessions, friends, family, lifestyle, literally everything familiar to them aside from each other, and even the barest hope of ever getting back any of it.
tl;dr - They're both bad, but the fate of the Weeping Angels is FAR worse than selective amnesia any way you slice it.
X
Amy & Rory get left remembering all of that and knowing that everyone they love isn't and can't come to help them, and every single thing that they'll never see again. Even just looking at family, Brian Williams got it SO much worse than Wilf, because he helped convince Amy & Rory to keep traveling with the Doctor, and as a result, ended up getting both of them taken from him and left with a letter & an adopted grandson older than he is - just a week later. No warnings, no real goodbyes, no reconciliation, nothing. The big difference here is that (as soon as the Doctor fixes the cracks in the universe), Amy, Rory, Brian, (& assumedly Amy's parents) don't all end up better off. Not by a LONG shot.
The whole thing to me is that what Donna REALLY loses is her sense of self worth and that's something that she gets back elsewhere, and even has a little help from the Doctor by proxy in doing so. Amy & Rory lose their home, possessions, friends, family, lifestyle, literally everything familiar to them aside from each other, and even the barest hope of ever getting back any of it.
tl;dr - They're both bad, but the fate of the Weeping Angels is FAR worse than selective amnesia any way you slice it.
X
Novus
Pro Adventurer
Let's say their fates are final.
Amy and Rory can still reappear in DW at anytime, all it takes is a few lines of technobabble, something about relaying a circuit so they can leave for a few hours and then return. So really they are living the exact same lives as they did in God delusion, except sixty years earlier.
River Song has already found a way to visit them I believe so the gap isn't as big as you believe.
If the actors want to, Moff can will it and they can pop in for cameos. Exactly the same as Rose. RTD cemented it a little more in Series 4 by giving her Ten's wanking hand to keep her company, so you have to give a greater explanation as to why she has returned. But really you need to lobotomise them or drop them into an eternal void or actually kill them.
Amy and Rory can still reappear in DW at anytime, all it takes is a few lines of technobabble, something about relaying a circuit so they can leave for a few hours and then return. So really they are living the exact same lives as they did in God delusion, except sixty years earlier.
River Song has already found a way to visit them I believe so the gap isn't as big as you believe.
If the actors want to, Moff can will it and they can pop in for cameos. Exactly the same as Rose. RTD cemented it a little more in Series 4 by giving her Ten's wanking hand to keep her company, so you have to give a greater explanation as to why she has returned. But really you need to lobotomise them or drop them into an eternal void or actually kill them.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
Yes, but we see later on that Donna gets that appreciation elsewhere from her new husband & family and her life turns out just lovely - even without knowing who she was to the Doctor, because he still finds ways to help her - like winning the lottery. Her not knowing what happened with Doctor is literally a non-factor in her life, because the people around her help her rediscover that sense of self worth BECAUSE she doesn't know. Hell, it's more of a consequence for Wilf than it is for her, since he wants to be able to tell her and can't. She still ends up WAY better off than she was before she met the Doctor.
Amy & Rory get left remembering all of that and knowing that everyone they love isn't and can't come to help them, and every single thing that they'll never see again. Even just looking at family, Brian Williams got it SO much worse than Wilf, because he helped convince Amy & Rory to keep traveling with the Doctor, and as a result, ended up getting both of them taken from him and left with a letter & an adopted grandson older than he is - just a week later. No warnings, no real goodbyes, no reconciliation, nothing. The big difference here is that (as soon as the Doctor fixes the cracks in the universe), Amy, Rory, Brian, (& assumedly Amy's parents) don't all end up better off. Not by a LONG shot.
The whole thing to me is that what Donna REALLY loses is her sense of self worth and that's something that she gets back elsewhere, and even has a little help from the Doctor by proxy in doing so. Amy & Rory lose their home, possessions, friends, family, lifestyle, literally everything familiar to them aside from each other, and even the barest hope of ever getting back any of it.
tl;dr - They're both bad, but the fate of the Weeping Angels is FAR worse than selective amnesia any way you slice it.
X
First of all, I wasn't joking about the dying thing. If Wilfred isn't watching out every time the Doctor makes the news or the Daleks attack the Earth, Donna dies. That's really a thing.
And I really don't think winning the lottery is equivalent to helping save the universe/world when it comes to affirming your self-worth.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Ugh. Donna's brain-thing is one of the dumbest things RTD did. No, not the 'She can't remember' the 'She can NEVER REMEMBER OR ELSE' and then End of Time. Blegh.
Tennyo
Higher Further Faster
It's the Doge-tor
I'm going to have to disagree. Donna had very little self-worth and a narcissistic mother who treated her like crap and always put her down and told her how worthless she was. Donna becomes the most important woman in the universe and can never remember that. She doesn't even know her own self worth. I kind of take that as a statement of, most people don't realize their own worth or potential. Donna never will.
It helps, though, that in the end The Doctor called Donna's mom out on her shit. In "The End of Time," her mother seems less harsh and even quite protective of her.
I'm going to have to disagree. Donna had very little self-worth and a narcissistic mother who treated her like crap and always put her down and told her how worthless she was. Donna becomes the most important woman in the universe and can never remember that. She doesn't even know her own self worth. I kind of take that as a statement of, most people don't realize their own worth or potential. Donna never will.
It helps, though, that in the end The Doctor called Donna's mom out on her shit. In "The End of Time," her mother seems less harsh and even quite protective of her.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
It's the Doge-tor
I'm going to have to disagree. Donna had very little self-worth and a narcissistic mother who treated her like crap and always put her down and told her how worthless she was. Donna becomes the most important woman in the universe and can never remember that. She doesn't even know her own self worth. I kind of take that as a statement of, most people don't realize their own worth or potential. Donna never will.
It helps, though, that in the end The Doctor called Donna's mom out on her shit. In "The End of Time," her mother seems less harsh and even quite protective of her.
No, it's not that that bugs me. It's the "You can never let her know ever, or else... my emergency shut down switch will activate and she'll be perfectly unaffected!"
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
As my anger has had more time to abate and I've had more time to think, provided that headcanon bit about Rose is true for the 50th, I guess it's kind of a cool thing that The Doctor would get to become who he wishes he could be.
I still maintain that up to this point, he has been everything I described in previous posts, but there's nothing wrong with him getting to leave that behind and be who he wishes he could be provided the past of who he was doesn't have to be erased to accommodate the transition. Wanting to better oneself is a great thing. It's just important that a magical fix-all not be apllied to his past in order to make it so.
I still maintain that up to this point, he has been everything I described in previous posts, but there's nothing wrong with him getting to leave that behind and be who he wishes he could be provided the past of who he was doesn't have to be erased to accommodate the transition. Wanting to better oneself is a great thing. It's just important that a magical fix-all not be apllied to his past in order to make it so.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
For those who were worried that the Doctor was going to find Gallifrey quickly, it seems you have little reason to fear.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X