Elden Ring
- Thread starter Roundhouse
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
y halo thar, nice ta see you as well
I think that the reason PvP hasn't ever really been that intriguing to me in the Souls games (aside from vastly preferring PvE type games) is that it predicates itself around the community self-defining a sort of expected fair for duels like the Level 120/150 in Elden Ring which also has a tendency to bring along a lot of the tryhard elitism because it's about maximizing a very specific understanding of the game's combat interactions & attack reads, where the idea of using other tools like Summons & Magic are generally frowned upon – because they are ways to help players circumvent that part of the challenge.
That's why I think that emphasizing that Elden Ring is technically a Souls game, but you have a veritable cornucopia of tools to address those challenges in ways where they're not NEARLY as reliant upon that skill set as something like Bloodborne can make a huge difference in who is willing to approach that. Then this inevitably means that the exact same type of min-max-focused gamer types are going to discover that L2 spam is stupidly effective in countering the more reading-and-counter combat, and so PvP becomes less fun and thus the cycle of those types being even more opposed to those other game elements increases and the cycle continues.
I don't know how much the Colosseums and its restrictions can address things like that, as I think that it's just the fundamental difficulty in attempting to communicate what type of shared experience you want from an opponent – which requires trust, but expecting an opponent will deceive you is something that you HAVE to expect and thus it's very difficult to have that work out even when a lot of the community is SURPRISINGLY capable at creating those sorts of constraints external to the game's own tools.
A condensed LP run seems like a solid way to de-rust on the game, and it'd be fun ta hear about!
X
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Now my PVP/Farming marathon comes to a close... that alone added +100h of playtime.
Absolutely loved PVPing in Bloodborne and Dark Souls III and that didn't change here. Each invasion brings its own challenges and opportunities to explore, which makes it unpredictable and that's why its so engaging to me; even in the middle of L2 spam you can find your way to victory if you are focused enough, baiting invaders helps tremendously. High Poise is an absolute must here, so I had Bull Goat's Talisman all the time. Recorded a lot of invasions so I'll be sharing some of them soon.
I have an itch of building a STR/FTH character next, focusing on Crucible incantations, but that's for the DLC.
Luckily, by PVPing I also got tons of runes (with cooperators sometimes dropping 300k or 400k), and now I'm stocked and ready to craft the new DLC weapons as soon as I get them.
Last shot I took (Endgame spoiler):
Absolutely loved PVPing in Bloodborne and Dark Souls III and that didn't change here. Each invasion brings its own challenges and opportunities to explore, which makes it unpredictable and that's why its so engaging to me; even in the middle of L2 spam you can find your way to victory if you are focused enough, baiting invaders helps tremendously. High Poise is an absolute must here, so I had Bull Goat's Talisman all the time. Recorded a lot of invasions so I'll be sharing some of them soon.
I have an itch of building a STR/FTH character next, focusing on Crucible incantations, but that's for the DLC.
Luckily, by PVPing I also got tons of runes (with cooperators sometimes dropping 300k or 400k), and now I'm stocked and ready to craft the new DLC weapons as soon as I get them.
Last shot I took (Endgame spoiler):
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
So, Shadow of the Erdtree was genuinely impressive.
The overlapping verticality feels a lot more like the more constrained Souls series level design, whilst maintaining the open world elements of the main game. The only things that I would consider flaws about that are first time experience where the upper Rauh Ruins & Jagged Peak don't have their own map fragments, and that the maps to both of those are contained in the lower regions (which you can't get to from the upper areas). This meant that I made it all the way to both Romina & Bayle the Dread totally blind and with a prolific amount of messages along the lines of, "Victory... but still no map." along the way to let me know I wasn't alone in the experience. That and that there were a few pathways into lower regions that are unexpectedly obtuse, as well as how there's a very arbitrary boundary around the outside of Shadow Keep that triggers the shattering of Miquella's Rune and changes a number of the NPC relationships just for exploring.
The rest went really smoothly, and I think that there were some extremely unique experiences like the Abyssal Woods being a deeply sinister and oppressive environment that reinforced a sense of fear & helplessness to the presence of the Madness. As expected there's still a lot of early thematic design here & there, lending itself towards a lot of the elements in the DLC being designed well in advance of the main game's completion, even if there were changes made along the way. Personally, I really liked the implementation of the story-driven NPC participation in some of the boss fights, as that kind of thing felt exceptionally satisfying in making it feel like a more deeply layered story that connects to you as a character, and set up for a lot more interesting relationships between everyone drawn to the Realm of Shadow.
I got through the DLC on my game that was completed and then circled back to do DLC+ to get all the things from the Boss Remembrances (I'm on NG+3 or 4 now in my playthrough). Even without Igon's absolutely iconic monologuing, Bayle is far and away my favourite fight. There're also a number of impressive vistas and locations that gave that same sense of wondrous exploration that the base game did, but with a feeling that was often strange and new. The use of the main theme harp leitmotif in the Shaman Village being isolated out from everything else still hits particularly poignantly to the way it tells bits & pieces of Marika's story.
While I have been gradually poking in and making my way through Bloodborne since as a way to chew on some more of the design themes and poke around at the overlapping visual design themes, the far more constrained nature of that game's layout is a lot more difficult for me to put time into, as it's very cognitively draining (especially in the Chalice Dungeons with their lack of background music), whereas Elden Ring is always exceptionally relaxing to explore for me since I can flex into or out of those more constrained environments into just a meandering exploration at basically any interval, which isn't possible when a setting is more fixed into a hub world and its intertwined levels.
If anything, I've found that I'm definitely the sort of player who'd vastly prefer if I had the option to just to be a god-mode-tourist for a lot of games these days, as I'm far less drawn to a potential challenge of the mechanics as I am drawn in by exploring the details of the environments.
I do dig the Dragon Halberd and Ice Lightning is still one of the most interesting and under-represented things in the game As a heavy armor look that's a good-lookin' kit. I'm rather curious if you found anything new in the DLC that you particularly were drawn to. The Winged Serpent Helm is has the coolest look as a knight helm, and for Poise, the Greaves of Solitude have become the defacto ones I moved to from the Fire Prelate Greaves, as they don't get as enormous if I'm swapping the chest armor I'm using. While there're a boatload of cool weapons, I really like wandering whilst two-handing Rellana's Twinblades and the Beast-Repellant Torch on my back, as it's got a neat attack string, really cool and diverse L2 abilities, as well as meaning that Wolves will leave you be which fits the Carian vibe. That being said – Bolt of Gransax is still absurdly god-tier for the PvE stuff.
I am quite curious in more perspectives on things from the PvP & more combat-focused side of things.
X
The overlapping verticality feels a lot more like the more constrained Souls series level design, whilst maintaining the open world elements of the main game. The only things that I would consider flaws about that are first time experience where the upper Rauh Ruins & Jagged Peak don't have their own map fragments, and that the maps to both of those are contained in the lower regions (which you can't get to from the upper areas). This meant that I made it all the way to both Romina & Bayle the Dread totally blind and with a prolific amount of messages along the lines of, "Victory... but still no map." along the way to let me know I wasn't alone in the experience. That and that there were a few pathways into lower regions that are unexpectedly obtuse, as well as how there's a very arbitrary boundary around the outside of Shadow Keep that triggers the shattering of Miquella's Rune and changes a number of the NPC relationships just for exploring.
The rest went really smoothly, and I think that there were some extremely unique experiences like the Abyssal Woods being a deeply sinister and oppressive environment that reinforced a sense of fear & helplessness to the presence of the Madness. As expected there's still a lot of early thematic design here & there, lending itself towards a lot of the elements in the DLC being designed well in advance of the main game's completion, even if there were changes made along the way. Personally, I really liked the implementation of the story-driven NPC participation in some of the boss fights, as that kind of thing felt exceptionally satisfying in making it feel like a more deeply layered story that connects to you as a character, and set up for a lot more interesting relationships between everyone drawn to the Realm of Shadow.
I got through the DLC on my game that was completed and then circled back to do DLC+ to get all the things from the Boss Remembrances (I'm on NG+3 or 4 now in my playthrough). Even without Igon's absolutely iconic monologuing, Bayle is far and away my favourite fight. There're also a number of impressive vistas and locations that gave that same sense of wondrous exploration that the base game did, but with a feeling that was often strange and new. The use of the main theme harp leitmotif in the Shaman Village being isolated out from everything else still hits particularly poignantly to the way it tells bits & pieces of Marika's story.
While I have been gradually poking in and making my way through Bloodborne since as a way to chew on some more of the design themes and poke around at the overlapping visual design themes, the far more constrained nature of that game's layout is a lot more difficult for me to put time into, as it's very cognitively draining (especially in the Chalice Dungeons with their lack of background music), whereas Elden Ring is always exceptionally relaxing to explore for me since I can flex into or out of those more constrained environments into just a meandering exploration at basically any interval, which isn't possible when a setting is more fixed into a hub world and its intertwined levels.
If anything, I've found that I'm definitely the sort of player who'd vastly prefer if I had the option to just to be a god-mode-tourist for a lot of games these days, as I'm far less drawn to a potential challenge of the mechanics as I am drawn in by exploring the details of the environments.
I do dig the Dragon Halberd and Ice Lightning is still one of the most interesting and under-represented things in the game As a heavy armor look that's a good-lookin' kit. I'm rather curious if you found anything new in the DLC that you particularly were drawn to. The Winged Serpent Helm is has the coolest look as a knight helm, and for Poise, the Greaves of Solitude have become the defacto ones I moved to from the Fire Prelate Greaves, as they don't get as enormous if I'm swapping the chest armor I'm using. While there're a boatload of cool weapons, I really like wandering whilst two-handing Rellana's Twinblades and the Beast-Repellant Torch on my back, as it's got a neat attack string, really cool and diverse L2 abilities, as well as meaning that Wolves will leave you be which fits the Carian vibe. That being said – Bolt of Gransax is still absurdly god-tier for the PvE stuff.
I am quite curious in more perspectives on things from the PvP & more combat-focused side of things.
X
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
I consumed (or was consumed by) the Shadow of the Erdtree for this entire month; can't wait to share my thoughts on it, but just like you I was completely blown away by the quality and amount of content. +100 hours into it (at least 6h of those getting punched by the final boss 2nd phase).So, Shadow of the Erdtree was genuinely impressive.
The overlapping verticality feels a lot more like the more constrained Souls series level design, whilst maintaining the open world elements of the main game. The only things that I would consider flaws about that are first time experience where the upper Rauh Ruins & Jagged Peak don't have their own map fragments, and that the maps to both of those are contained in the lower regions (which you can't get to from the upper areas). This meant that I made it all the way to both Romina & Bayle the Dread totally blind and with a prolific amount of messages along the lines of, "Victory... but still no map." along the way to let me know I wasn't alone in the experience. That and that there were a few pathways into lower regions that are unexpectedly obtuse, as well as how there's a very arbitrary boundary around the outside of Shadow Keep that triggers the shattering of Miquella's Rune and changes a number of the NPC relationships just for exploring.
The rest went really smoothly, and I think that there were some extremely unique experiences like the Abyssal Woods being a deeply sinister and oppressive environment that reinforced a sense of fear & helplessness to the presence of the Madness. As expected there's still a lot of early thematic design here & there, lending itself towards a lot of the elements in the DLC being designed well in advance of the main game's completion, even if there were changes made along the way. Personally, I really liked the implementation of the story-driven NPC participation in some of the boss fights, as that kind of thing felt exceptionally satisfying in making it feel like a more deeply layered story that connects to you as a character, and set up for a lot more interesting relationships between everyone drawn to the Realm of Shadow.
I got through the DLC on my game that was completed and then circled back to do DLC+ to get all the things from the Boss Remembrances (I'm on NG+3 or 4 now in my playthrough). Even without Igon's absolutely iconic monologuing, Bayle is far and away my favourite fight. There're also a number of impressive vistas and locations that gave that same sense of wondrous exploration that the base game did, but with a feeling that was often strange and new. The use of the main theme harp leitmotif in the Shaman Village being isolated out from everything else still hits particularly poignantly to the way it tells bits & pieces of Marika's story.
While I have been gradually poking in and making my way through Bloodborne since as a way to chew on some more of the design themes and poke around at the overlapping visual design themes, the far more constrained nature of that game's layout is a lot more difficult for me to put time into, as it's very cognitively draining (especially in the Chalice Dungeons with their lack of background music), whereas Elden Ring is always exceptionally relaxing to explore for me since I can flex into or out of those more constrained environments into just a meandering exploration at basically any interval, which isn't possible when a setting is more fixed into a hub world and its intertwined levels.
If anything, I've found that I'm definitely the sort of player who'd vastly prefer if I had the option to just to be a god-mode-tourist for a lot of games these days, as I'm far less drawn to a potential challenge of the mechanics as I am drawn in by exploring the details of the environments.
I do dig the Dragon Halberd and Ice Lightning is still one of the most interesting and under-represented things in the game As a heavy armor look that's a good-lookin' kit. I'm rather curious if you found anything new in the DLC that you particularly were drawn to. The Winged Serpent Helm is has the coolest look as a knight helm, and for Poise, the Greaves of Solitude have become the defacto ones I moved to from the Fire Prelate Greaves, as they don't get as enormous if I'm swapping the chest armor I'm using. While there're a boatload of cool weapons, I really like wandering whilst two-handing Rellana's Twinblades and the Beast-Repellant Torch on my back, as it's got a neat attack string, really cool and diverse L2 abilities, as well as meaning that Wolves will leave you be which fits the Carian vibe. That being said – Bolt of Gransax is still absurdly god-tier for the PvE stuff.
I am quite curious in more perspectives on things from the PvP & more combat-focused side of things.
X
Calling it a DLC is a disservice, it's a glorified expansion (a full game for half the price), which delivers the best Elden Ring experience at times.
Last edited:
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Yeah, the Phase 2 of the final boss was an especially brutal one that's wholly deserving as being the game's ultimate challenge. I think my favourite thing about that boss fights is that the boss's "launching a barrage at you from the sky" attack has a narrow window where you can use the Rennala's Full Moon or Ranni's Dark Moon sorcery as a full counter because the projectiles are all magical in nature, so it'll pull them in, nullify them, and then hit to deal the magic vulnerability status. Discovering that in my initial attempts was monumentally satisfying, and just spoiler tagging a clip of it from one of my attempts in my first time through.
One of the interesting things that I've been wondering about that isn't ever clarified, but always feels incredibly plausible is how Miquella's core motivations are heavily shaped into a sort of child-like naïve perspective that's because of the power that he commands. With the ability to effortlessly turn anyone's heart to his side the way that the Bewitching Branches do to enemies in the base game, he doesn't really seem to understand the difference between achieving peace vs. facilitating the submission of someone else's desires with their love of him.
What's interesting about this is that it DOES stop conflict between them because they always prioritize his desires above their own, but it's existentially terrifying to look back on once those affected have overcome that influence and are able to prioritize their individual wants again, especially because it presents the ability to cast moral judgement on the actions from someone who doesn't implicitly condone them – which is something that Miquella doesn't really seem to understand as he's always held the power to just... win – much in the same way that the Two Fingers or Greater Will asserts itself over the Elden Lord.
A loss of free will is peace, but only superficially – and the only people who could notice the difference no longer have the agency to. It's why I think that all of the NPCs have really interesting reactions to being faced with both enforced alignment, but also the loss of that protection.
There's a bunch of noteworthy BERSERK & Bloodborne parallels that dig into the core of the moral framework that I find deeply fascinating. In case you're interested in an... exceptionally overly sizeable chunk of tl;dr along with some relevant Japanese historical information and other things that interconnect into all that as a sort of snapshot of the web of thematic analysis that I've been mulling over lately and how that lives in my brain, I figured I'd just give a go at laying a bunch of this into a text form for once.
One of the things in BERSERK that makes the Band of the Hawk's fate so difficult is that they all chose to join and collectively try to help Griffith achieve his dream of establishing his own kingdom. They prioritized the future that he envisioned, and while they were all drawn in by his charisma, Griffith carried the weight of knowing that every death was the loss of the ambitions of someone under his command, which drove him to be a superior commander.
The only times he didn't maintain objectivity on that dream was when Guts was at risk, and the only one who departed from that shared collective ambition for Griffith's dream to prioritize his own was also Guts – which ultimately leads to their downfall & the torture that places Griffith in the position where he's forced to give up that dream forever, and make all the countless deaths of his comrades along the way meaningless, or sacrifice all of them for the power to achieve the power that they were all pledged to giving their lives for... –and so he chooses power and prioritizes that dream over Guts' safety and in doing so becomes both a god-like saviour & a terrifying monster all entangled together, where that same level of love that has always drawn others to his side is even more magnified... but he ALWAYS still offers choice, even if he only offers it once because that decision is an ultimatum the same way it was when Guts chose to leave by force in a way that makes reconciliation seemingly impossible.
It's why Rickert slaps Griffith & refuses to stay in Falconia because of the sacrifice of the Hawks caught up in the Eclipse, but also why he doesn't allow any of the countless loyal demonic subjects to harm Rickert for that choice. Even though Rickert is no longer subject to his protection in the city the moment he refuses it, a choice between protection & death is compulsion, so he's maintaining the space for that choice to be made openly.
By that metric in Shadow of the Erdtree, it's MUCH easier to see that Miquella is naïve to how peoples' hearts work free of his compulsion, which explains why he carelessly cast away his own love with St. Trina, and doesn't recognize the existential agony that will have to accompany being given the power of a god. To quote her, "Make Miquella stop. Don't turn the poor thing into a god. Godhood would be Miquella's prison. A caged divinity, is beyond saving. You must kill Miquella. Grant him forgiveness." because he would be trapped needing to absolutely oppose anyone who didn't love him... or be left knowing that because he wasn't allowing anyone to make that choice – the reality would be that he was actually the only individual will that still existed in the entire world, and what he'd done was no different than erasing everyone other than himself.
This is actually the core struggle that the Great Ones face in Bloodborne, because everything that exists in their dreams is ultimately just themselves. If the Great Ones have a child, either the child's will survives and they are orphaned and in existential anguish, or the parent is left grieving the stillbirth of their offspring in that same lonely, isolated anguish. That's why the Moon Presence chooses Gehrman as its surrogate, and why he's in anguish within the dream – he's all alone and his only companionship is with a lifeless doll who's only made present in his thoughts, which is identical to the Great Ones' plight.
As a key exploration of the existential trauma of the loss of individual will when one becomes a supreme ruler in BERSERK was heavily informed by Marie Antoinette's struggles depicted in the Rose of Versailles, and Bloodborne followed the same structure set up in Brotherhood of the Wolf, those three endings are important to look at in how they frame choices around that fate around the French Revolution (especially things like the Cult of the Supreme Being and the invention or ascension to a god through reason and eschewing of Christ-like saviour figures). The "Yharnam Sunrise" is essentially the death of Robespierre – the one responsible for the revolution and the downfall of the system is ultimately beheaded, while the "Honoring Wishes" is freeing those in power trapped by that fate by beheading them and becoming the surrogate to endure that pain in their stead, while "Childhood's Beginning" is becoming a Great One and embodying existence as your own dream (in reference to the scifi book Childhood's End). There isn't a solution here – they're merely different forms of the same cage.
In BERSERK & Elden Ring, that's the reason that both Griffith & Miquella build off of the "Resurrected Christ" parallels, with Elden Ring having the Greater Will as an externalized ultimate deity that shapes the world according to its design of Order. Those function as a way to show that the shining eternal kingdom of a true ruler god like both King Arthur & Christ represent in Western Fantasy is itself a contradiction that cannot deliver what it offers without fundamentally erasing free will, or appearing to be a terrifyingly all-powerful apocalyptic demon to any who refuse the choice to accept that only path to salvation. Japan experienced this in multiple forms underneath the various forced unifications under the Japanese Empire – most notably when Buddhism arrived and repressed & forcibly syncretized Shinto practices as a means to have unification with less bloodshed, which lead to State Shinto forming Imperial Japan where Buddhism & Christianity were oppressed, and the events of WWII leading to Japan's downfall & reformation under America.
While the Biblical Revelation apocalypse story used Babylon as a way to comment on at-the-time contemporary Imperial Rome, that symbolism is also key when examining the Crusades as religious fanaticism driven to exterminate non-believers in an identical way to how there is a ruthless loyalty with the Needle Knights that's hiding a truth of being unbelievably bloody & totalitarian towards any who MIGHT betray them. The Arthurian influences with the Roundtable Hold & gathering of knights under Leda match this, but there's another layer to it. A lot of post-WWII Japanese media has similarly used Tokyo & Babylon parallels that are HEAVILY present in Shadow of the Erdtree, but in particular with regard to the Hornsent as the people of the Tower – which was built to literally reach heaven like the Tower of Babel was, but in this context to serve as a Divine Gateway, ultimately leading to a horrible downfall under the new saviour deity – Marika the Eternal.
As Leda states, "Long ago, Queen Marika commanded Sir Messmer to purge the tower folk. A cleansing by fire. It’s no wonder the hornsent holds the Erdtree in contempt. That aside, man is by nature a creature of conquest. And in this regard, the tower folk are no different. They were never saints. They just happened to be on the losing side of a war. But it’s still a wretched shame." emphasizing very heavily why everything in the Realm of Shadow reflect the inconvenient pains & warcrimes that were hidden away post-WWII. Most notably to me are the mass graves and the hornsent all being blackened with the prolific presence of the Furnace Golems with the burning vortices of raining fire who can only be defeated by forcing their flame to burn itself out all as overt parallels to the firebombing of Tokyo during Operation MEETINGHOUSE (warning as the details are genuinely haunting).
This is why Marika exists in the base game as a permanent "Crucified Christ" who isn't resurrected, and that the new Elden Lord has to be one of the Tarnished who looks upon a land that cast out and rejected it, rather than allowing the eternal kingdom to feed itself from within. It's why Miquella's Rule will never escape the Land of Shadow, and acquiescing to that post-self-sacrifice Christ figure to take over the Golden Order is just an immediate game over of "Heart Stolen" during that boss fight.
While the player can look at the inner theological justifications to rebuilding the Golden Order in the forms of the various Mending Runes to resurrect Marika... those are ultimately just following that same path to permanent division. That's what the Genpei War solidified in Japanese history between the victorious Minamoto clan & the ousted Taira clan – and is why those reflections are central to Godwyn as a perfect heir whose untimely death & establishment of undeath are explored by the Golden Order's Hunters & Those Who Live in Death are the key examinations of the Mending Runes. While Malekith will initially admonish the Tarnished upon defeat by stating, "Witless Tarnished... Why covet Destined Death? To kill what?" collecting sufficient Deathroot for him as Gurranq leads to a more informed admission as Marika's Shadow that stands against doing that, "Forgive me, Marika... The Golden Order... cannot be restored."
Essentially it's rejecting that existential framework of an eternally perfect kingdom of supreme order as being a paradise, and only becoming a cage that necessitates a system of oppression or control that is ultimately self-defeating as the Runes are scars and, "These seals represent the lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods." which as they grow deeper, "Solemn duty weighs upon the one beholden; not unlike a gnawing curse from which there is no deliverance." very aptly describing the schism between Radagon & Marika trying to fracture & repair the Elden Ring, made even more poignant in how Fia's Mending Rune is literally her offspring with Godwyn. It's a "child" that's the embodiment of a concept that will establish a whole system of rule over everything... but the Runes themselves are a flawed power.
"Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth. One was cursed with eternal childhood, and the other harbored rot within." As such, Miquella as a "Resurrected Christ" follows that same theme as he's directly born of a singular divinity reflecting the conception offspring of the Great Ones in Bloodborne ultimately as the possession of a surrogate or the inadvertent reproduction of themselves. Miquella's themes are all interconnected into dreams and through St. Trina it's emphasizing the same "Awaken Above Ground" concepts from Bloodborne of dreams & death being indistinguishable for an Eternal being. Unlike the other Demigods who all have a mortal parent from whom they derive their individual traits, the Empyreans are just a singular divinity, and thus they're assigned Shadows to control them in the form of wolves, which is why it's worth looking at how those interconnections arose.
The Elden Ring itself is the amalgamate of all vast combination of various Great Runes combined together into the Greater Will's Golden Order, and this follows the same pattern with Bloodborne's Caryll Runes as symbols that represent the concept of words from the Great Ones. Thus, it's no surprise that the Rune for Formless Oedon which represents: "The Great One Oedon, lacking form, exists only in voice, and is symbolised by this rune. Those who memorize it enjoy a larger supply of Quicksilver Bullets. Human or no, the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One, Oedon. Both Oedon, and his inadvertent worshippers, surreptitiously seek the precious blood." and that Formless Oedon's Rune literally contains Marika's Rune within it when the Gold reveals itself in its completely realized form. Her history with Marika's Mischief allowing you to physically transform, and the Mimic Tears allowing rebirth connect to her own representation as being both herself and Radagon and the statue that captures their essence in the capital of Leyndell also reflects this.
The themes with this Rune being blood that eventually reveals gold within it also reflects what's recounted in the story of the Beginning in Shadow of the Erdtree when it comes to how the Great Ones create progeny with particular chosen: The seduction & the betrayal. It was an affair from which Gold arose, and so too was Shadow Born. Especially given that when Marika's crucified within the Erdtree, the lower portion of her rune is detached, and is crimson rather than gold, and speared through her like the Lance of Longinus. Formless Oedon's Rune also is about Blood, and whilst Morgott is the steward of the Throne in the absence of Queen Marika the Eternal... his twin Brother Mohg worships the Formless Mother, who is symbolized by three upwards gashes – the non-gold portion of the Formless Oedon Caryll Rune. Additionally, in the 1.0 version of Elden Ring the Nightmaiden & Swordstress Puppets that summons those Silver Tear beings of the Eternal City used to just state that it "summons the spirit of a descendant of Marika."
This symbolism and theme was clearly conceived during development in The Old Hunters, as the Nightmare Grand Cathedral is the resting place of Laurence, the First Vicar is before a statue of a headless woman standing in front of a tree and pouring something into his open mouth... which is identical to the Erdtree's Favor talisman depicting Queen Marika (and is also the only time that her longer braid is shown over her left shoulder). Moreso than that is the Skull of Laurence, "first vicar of the Healing Church. In reality he became the first cleric beast, and his human skull only exists within the Nightmare. The skull is a symbol of Laurence's past, and what he failed to protect. He is destined to seek his skull, but even if he found it, it could never restore his memories." Thus, Gurranq the Beast Clergyman also being Maliketh the Black Blade who failed to protect the Rune of Destined Death from being stolen, and being the Shadow used by the Two Fingers to control Queen Marika is incredibly overt as a shared parallel, but that extends further.
Bloodborne's Cleric Beasts are heavily identified by their horns which hold a key theme in Shadow of the Erdtree, as well as the Ancestral Worshippers in the base game. Whereas in Elden Ring, the Serpent consumes beings physically (HP restoration on kill), the Ancestral Spirits' horns allow them to be reborn through others' spirits (FP restoration on kill), and the boss fight is all about them regenerating while draining the spiritual animals around them and gaining those same traits. Horns symbolize that externalized possession to resurrect the dead, and the Curseblades' weapons were all about bloodletting, Long ago, this was employed by the ascetics who strove to become tutelary deities as a ritualistic object in their self-flagellating dances. To further emphasize this their masks state, "A mask affixed with a crown of tangled horns, worn by those who would invoke divinity. Divine invocation heightens the dexterity of the wearer, but causes the blessing of the Erdtree to become nauseating, reducing the restorative effect of drinking from a flask of sacred tears. Focus is also troubled by wearing this mask." Focus protects against two things – Sleep & Madness... the two key features of the Hunter's Nightmare full of blood & beasts, and the presence of Divine horns also diminishes the effectiveness of the restoration from the Erdtree's Favor which the Marika statue is pouring out into Laurence's mouth.
So, when it comes to the concepts here in the juxtaposition between the Tree Maiden's Blessing & the Horned Divine Beast, it's important to look at how Bloodborne has two transformative Oath Runes – both of which are rather meta in their depiction. While the Caryll Rune "Beast" (獣) depicts a Facehugger that is still active, whereas the Oath Rune "Embrace" (抱擁) shows it curled up the way the they look when they've hugged/embraced a victim with the tail curled, and also how they appear after they've implanted the Chestburster into the host – hence the transformative nature along with the Beast Claw weapon which turns you into the bestial werewolf-like beast. The other is the "Milkweed" (苗床) which are just stylistic representation of H.P. Lovecraft's initials. However, this last one has a number of overlaps to Elden Ring that are a bit more obscured by untranslatable connections, and easier to see by looking at both languages.
The English description, "A Caryll Rune envisioned by Adeline, patient of the Research Hall. A transcription of the inhumane, sticky whispers that reveal the nature of a celestial attendant. Those who take this oath become a lumenwood that peers towards the sky, feeding phantasms in its luscious bed. Phantasms guide us, and lead to further discoveries." – which hints at rather pivotal overlaps that are delivered but aren't as obvious unless you also know that the term translated as "Lumenwood" (星輪) in Japanese is built of two kanji which literally mean "Star" (星) & "Ring" (輪), and connects to a plant of some kind as it's (星輪の幹) becoming the trunk/stem of the Star-Ring. And the Elden Stars incantation states, "It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden STAR bearing a BEAST into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden RING."
It's also not just that... the description explicitly that this Lumenwood "peers into the sky" (空仰ぐ), and there is a very particular type of plant that is known for doing that – a Sunflower, which are found throughout the Lands Between, but explicitly the Scadutree Avatar – is a continually resurrecting Sunflower with literal eyes, whose remembrance states that, "The Scadutree is the shadow of the Erdtree." So, the thematic links to both the Beast & Lumenwood are present, but there's still more. The Milkweed name "苗床" is "Seedbed" which is the identical term used for Dung-Eater's questline in Elden Ring for spreading his Seedbed Curse, that infects everyone in every generation with Omen Horns in his own Mending Rune seeking to undo a taboo by passing it to everyone, which overlooks the danger of why that's a taboo in the first place. The Horns not only diminish the power of the Erdtree's healing, but it is a painful and horrid physical affliction... which spreads through Marika's offspring as easily as any other, and likely even moreso given her bloodline's affinity for binding with others, and all of the Golden Order suffering from that lineage and this schism.
Whilst the Tower practiced worship of Divinity through possession, like the Tower's Divine Beast possessing the Sculpted Keepers... Marika seems to have literally BECOME the divinity as she is a god from that point in some capacity. We know from Bonny Village items like the Tooth Whip that the shaman/miko of Marika's village has flesh that bonded uniquely to other beings. This is why they were butchered and placed into Jars in order to purify the criminals they were intertwined with, and we even see their bodies being merged with trees, and the golden trees in Enir-Ilim also have humanoid forms fully embedded within them. It's also why Marika is perfect for attempting to give birth to the child of a god, but like with Bloodborne, could just as easily become the god herself. The Elden Ring is literally housed inside her body, using it like a shell. It's only once Radagon breaks that the roles are reversed and the Elden Beast takes form and wields their fused bodies as the Sacred Relic Sword. Their nature entangles the Golden Order's eternal nature into any and every form they interconnect with, allowing for Godrick's Grafting, just as much as Rykard's fusion with the Serpent-God, and all the other horrors that grow from and into the children of the Erdtree.
Bloodborne's Fishing Hamlet Priest states, "Lay the curse of blood upon them, and their children, and their children's children, for evermore. Each wretched birth will plunge each child into a lifetime of misery. Mercy, for the poor, wizened child...Let the pungence of Kos cling, like a mother's devotion..." but with that Milkweed Oath Rune equipped he adds, "Curse here, curse there. A curse for he, and she, why care. A bottomless curse, a bottomless sea, source of all greatness, all things that be. Listen for the baneful chants. Weep with them, as one in trance. And weep with us, oh, weep with us... Listen for the baneful chants. A call to the bloodless, wherever they be. A call to the bloodless, wherever they be. Fix your ears, to hear our call." and he'll give you an Accursed Brew – a skull which has been forcibly searched for eyes... identical to the means of acquiring Runes in Elden Ring come from the eyes of the deceased, often seen in skulls haplessly strewn about landscape in both the Lands Between & the Realm of Shadow. Showing that likely none of the Mending Runes for the Golden Order are a solution, just spreading a different curse, similar to the addiction to power from consuming Draconic Hearts, or Blood-Drunk Hunters.
Dung Eater's Seedbed Curse even has an associated transformation in Shadow of the Erdtree in the form of the Lamenter's Mask – a transformation that even the people of the Tower who worshipped the divine appearance of horns shunned and locked away, "This transformation tallies with the state of a denizen of paradise, but the people of the tower denied and hid it from the world. In their foolishness, they viewed true bliss with deep fear." and the Lamenter boss will mass clone itself while hiding. Any clone that survives when the Lamenter reappears adds a curse on you. If 7 curses are applied, you will instantly die. To stop the spread of a curse, you can't just go after the source – you have to destroy the spread as well... which is critical to understand what the Subterranean Shunning-Ground below Leyndell is, as the Frenzied Flame cannot be safely interacted with.
That madness spreads & annihilates, and while the Merchants' plight is a terrible one, that type of quarantine is necessary. The issue is that Runes in and of themselves are their own form of curse that creates that pain. The Rune Arc shape of Marika's crucifixion having Golden Arc Incantations of the Tower, "The arc resembles the barb, a known symbol of coercive questioning." just like those on Jori the Inquisitor's Barbed Spear-Staff, and the Greatsword of Damnation used to execute Midra who is contained and forced to endure that suffering past his breaking point... exactly. like. Marika. That type of eternal power cannot exist safely... but neither can its inverse. The madness of the Lord of Chaos that erases the lines that distinguish individuals is like erasing the separation of puppet & puppeteer. Thus why as soon as the Three Fingers touches you, it IS you... and that Annihilation is driven by the same Frenzied madness that the Great Ones suffer in Bloodborne, from having a non-dual relationship to their own offspring like Arianna & her child... except that a Lord of Frenzied Flame will eradicate the whole of existence in its entirety.
It is a genuine anti-Christ figure masquerading as a saviour, representing a perfect reflection of eternity as utter non-existence, fueled by ascribing purpose to one's own inescapable suffering. It's no coincidence that Shabriri's iconography and those themes heavily parallel Shoko Asahara & Aum Shinrikyo who were responsible for the Tokyo Sarin Gas terrorist attacks, which was catalyzed by an inversion of Japanese nationalism. Thus it's no surprise that he possesses Yura's body who died failing in his attempt to save the legacy of someone he loved, and that pain is exactly how that type of grudge & curse form. Tolerating that type of apocalyptic intolerance only allows the influence and that intolerance to grow, and this is that same type of ideological curse that emerges from those where suffering breeds a hatred that feels justified... but accomplishes nothing but fueling greater hatred in any action that it takes. That's why the Leyndell soldiers near Volcano Manor have descended into that madness from the ceaseless fighting and are cannibalizing one another. It is a flame that feeds on burning itself as fuel, which is why you have to sacrifice yourself as kindling for it, and how it preys upon the noble & vulnerable looking to save their beloved maidens from harm, only to corrupt potential Elden Lords like Vyke into madness.
This danger is why this takes the properties of the Lovecraftian King in Yellow & Yellow Sign with the Lord of Chaos, where ANY form of exposure is total risk. Absolute quarantine is the only way to deal with it, and thus the only reversal is utilizing Miquella's Needle to implant his power of absolute coercion into your physical form to align the Outer God's will to your specific body by embedding the needle into your flesh at a location that is removed from localized space-time. The only other option is that intolerance of intolerance is reflected... which just gets the atrocities committed in the Lands of Shadow being justified by the force with enough power to portray the thing that they hate as a threat, because a practice that may have once been noble becomes conflated with torture & oppression with the imbalance of the power dynamic is eternally enshrined.
As perverse & terrible as the butchering that was done to Marika's people was... it DID actually turn the once-criminal individuals stuffed into living jars into noble warriors who were granted a hidden village of their own to live at peace amongst flowers, and to be tended to by Potentates in a strange fusion of a reconciliation between Bonny Village & the Shaman Village... only to once again be hunted & slaughtered for material from their bodies to be used, this time by the Perfumers while the soft kindness of the Potentates meant that they were vulnerable.
This is what finally brings everything to the final details, which is how those dynamics all come together to portray the version of an opposite to BOTH a Christ figure AND an Anti-Christ figure... which is to embrace mortality and allow Marika the Eternal to die, but also allow yourself to meet Destined Death. Return the experience of joy & pain to be something shared collectively rather than forced onto others, because it is impermanent. In essence reject the idea of the entire system of Eternal kingdoms outright.
This is what emphasizes the elements about Ranni's Age of Stars in juxtaposition to that entire dynamic, as well as in a foil to Miquella's own vision. Ranni is also an Empyrean. She eschews her Great Rune, abandons her flesh, and gives up her claim to the throne. Those all mirror the path Miquella takes... but there's a key difference. Ranni's alliances are all made by CHOICE, not through compulsion. You join her because you choose to, not because she forces you to. When you pledge to her cause and the deed is done, she releases you from service, which is also why she tells you to tell Iji & Blaidd that she loves them, as their nature to her will compel them to follow her without true agency of choice. Blaidd manages to resist enough to never betray her from that attachment, but still goes insane and you have to kill him for the same reason that you killed Darriwill & Radahn – an eternity imprisoned as a monster isn't a just end to someone you cared for. A noble, destined death is what the Radahn festival was all about and why Miquella's machinations are the antithesis of that... because he's just a child who always gets whatever he wants and believes it's always for the best.
When Miquella abandoned St. Trina, he removed the love and companionship that cared and understood what protection he needed. He manipulated Malenia to kill Radahn for him, and Radahn held the stars themselves in place to avoid becoming his consort. He manipulated Mohg to take him from the Haligtree and gave him visions of a new dynasty, and left his physical vessel such that Mohg could never revive him as a god and bring about the Mohgwyn Dynasty. He then used Mohg's corpse as a vessel to attach Radahn's soul to after he'd been killed before he became a total mindless beast, because he needed a Lord as a vessel to bind himself to in order to ascend to true Divinity. He wants to become the puppeteer, not free the puppets.
Ranni's entire purpose is a puppet cutting its own strings and ending that relationship – hence why Seluvis dies when the Puppets have their own agency and they turn on Pidia. It's why she allows Marika to perish in peace, and makes an oath to every living being & soul, as well as only turns violence against her own Two Fingers, and nothing else. You fundamentally cannot defeat her, but you don't have to join her on her journey into the Stars. Her path is one of the freedom of choice that comes from not knowing that there is a god. No ability to form a certainty of righteous divinity means that the power structures left in the world will be impermanent, and only guided for 1000 years under the moon in ways that the cannot perceive from that place exactly like the dark side of the moon.
It's an impermanent choice, and it's one not unlike what Marika made to escape the overwhelming oppression that she was under. Like Count Ymir mentions of Marika's mother & of Metyr herself, the flaw is that they were ALL damaged and in pain that shaped them, and their constant presence in overcoming that conflict further solidified that. Ranni removes herself from everything aside from only slaying the Two Fingers that she alone had the power to oppose thanks to you. While the Aliens of the Stars are as far removed from the Beasts of the Earth as possible, Bloodborne is very clear the cold detachment & burning obsessions are equally dangerous states for the Mind or the Heart.
Thus the danger inherent to Ranni making that journey alone is the same cold, darkness of the Lunar relationship that we first visited with the Moon Presence in Bloodborne – the fear, doubt, & loneliness of that isolation. She's a doll who has cut off all of the things that make her human aside from her individual will. If she accepts Destined Death, then the yearning for a surrogate child or companion will lead this back down an identically familiar path... but there's an intentional parallel to the "Childhood's Beginning" ending of Bloodborne, where the doll takes your Great One form off of the ground, cradles you in her arms, and asks if you're cold – especially as her attire states, "A deep love for the doll can be surmised by the fine craftsmanship of this article, and the care with which it was kept. It borderlines on mania, and exudes a slight warmth."
You bring Ranni the love and the warmth of companionship of someone who chose that path willingly while knowing that it comes at a cost, and made the choice to pay that cost anyway. That situation not only ensures that the being who's ascending to a divinity isn't alone the way that the Great Ones are, but also that she's not experiencing the same trauma that her mother did when Radagon abandoned her. Her path is one that's not as likely to be amplifying or perpetuating those past struggles under the Golden Order to become permanent trauma that repeat the way Marika's did in syncretizing with the beliefs of the Tower to replace it, because Ranni's eschews those things altogether.
It's ensuring that as Elden Lord don't continue to suffer being maidenless in isolation and aren't left with the existential loss that drove Vyke & Bernahl away from the path of Elden Lord into into the path of Madness or being a Recusant unable to accept that pain, but it's finding a way to heal from the loss. The Mending Runes for Marika appear to do that, but it's also ignoring that Marika's other self in Radagon's attempts to do that have failed, and her shadow in Malekith also opposes the idea, as well as the promise that Master Hewg commits himself to ensuring that he creates a weapon capable of slaying a god.
Allowing her to die is honoring a choice that she wants, as is a Tarnished coming to claim the throne in whatever way they deem fit, and she can't facilitate them on her own any more than Ranni could. Conversely, it's also not mistaking Lord of Chaos killing Marika being a path of justice that solves things, as that's just releasing all of the protections of order and indiscriminately unleashing perpetual death... which is why Melina vows to bring Destined Death to the Lord of Chaos to protect order, even while she facilitates the destruction of the Erdtree. Ranni's path is the atheist approach to a Christ & Anti-Christ conflict, which is what the historic amplification of generational trauma from civil war becomes as two sides can't view one another with objectivity.
While the Arthurian love triangle of Arthur, Lancelot, & Guinevere looked at that balance, and that heavily informed BERSERK setting up the dynamic between Griffith, Guts, & Casca the intertwined nature of their relationships don't allow for the role of a player character to interact with those paths as individual agents. Blaidd's & Radahn's vulnerabilities are an overt parallel to Guts and the idea of him as Griffith's possession is why I expect that the thematic elements with Godwyn that are included in the setting of Shadow of the Erdtree don't use that Taira & Minamoto historical civil war dynamic to explore the dangers of a beloved messianic figure coming into power or returning from the dead in a messianic resurrection parallel, as those modern links are much easier to see, but also they build off of the thematic constructs of the Souls-connected mythos itself.
As the DLC just adds in more supporting context, rather than creating a new ending for the game, digging into all of those overlaps and visual design conveyances has been really captivating to contemplate.
The only times he didn't maintain objectivity on that dream was when Guts was at risk, and the only one who departed from that shared collective ambition for Griffith's dream to prioritize his own was also Guts – which ultimately leads to their downfall & the torture that places Griffith in the position where he's forced to give up that dream forever, and make all the countless deaths of his comrades along the way meaningless, or sacrifice all of them for the power to achieve the power that they were all pledged to giving their lives for... –and so he chooses power and prioritizes that dream over Guts' safety and in doing so becomes both a god-like saviour & a terrifying monster all entangled together, where that same level of love that has always drawn others to his side is even more magnified... but he ALWAYS still offers choice, even if he only offers it once because that decision is an ultimatum the same way it was when Guts chose to leave by force in a way that makes reconciliation seemingly impossible.
It's why Rickert slaps Griffith & refuses to stay in Falconia because of the sacrifice of the Hawks caught up in the Eclipse, but also why he doesn't allow any of the countless loyal demonic subjects to harm Rickert for that choice. Even though Rickert is no longer subject to his protection in the city the moment he refuses it, a choice between protection & death is compulsion, so he's maintaining the space for that choice to be made openly.
By that metric in Shadow of the Erdtree, it's MUCH easier to see that Miquella is naïve to how peoples' hearts work free of his compulsion, which explains why he carelessly cast away his own love with St. Trina, and doesn't recognize the existential agony that will have to accompany being given the power of a god. To quote her, "Make Miquella stop. Don't turn the poor thing into a god. Godhood would be Miquella's prison. A caged divinity, is beyond saving. You must kill Miquella. Grant him forgiveness." because he would be trapped needing to absolutely oppose anyone who didn't love him... or be left knowing that because he wasn't allowing anyone to make that choice – the reality would be that he was actually the only individual will that still existed in the entire world, and what he'd done was no different than erasing everyone other than himself.
This is actually the core struggle that the Great Ones face in Bloodborne, because everything that exists in their dreams is ultimately just themselves. If the Great Ones have a child, either the child's will survives and they are orphaned and in existential anguish, or the parent is left grieving the stillbirth of their offspring in that same lonely, isolated anguish. That's why the Moon Presence chooses Gehrman as its surrogate, and why he's in anguish within the dream – he's all alone and his only companionship is with a lifeless doll who's only made present in his thoughts, which is identical to the Great Ones' plight.
As a key exploration of the existential trauma of the loss of individual will when one becomes a supreme ruler in BERSERK was heavily informed by Marie Antoinette's struggles depicted in the Rose of Versailles, and Bloodborne followed the same structure set up in Brotherhood of the Wolf, those three endings are important to look at in how they frame choices around that fate around the French Revolution (especially things like the Cult of the Supreme Being and the invention or ascension to a god through reason and eschewing of Christ-like saviour figures). The "Yharnam Sunrise" is essentially the death of Robespierre – the one responsible for the revolution and the downfall of the system is ultimately beheaded, while the "Honoring Wishes" is freeing those in power trapped by that fate by beheading them and becoming the surrogate to endure that pain in their stead, while "Childhood's Beginning" is becoming a Great One and embodying existence as your own dream (in reference to the scifi book Childhood's End). There isn't a solution here – they're merely different forms of the same cage.
In BERSERK & Elden Ring, that's the reason that both Griffith & Miquella build off of the "Resurrected Christ" parallels, with Elden Ring having the Greater Will as an externalized ultimate deity that shapes the world according to its design of Order. Those function as a way to show that the shining eternal kingdom of a true ruler god like both King Arthur & Christ represent in Western Fantasy is itself a contradiction that cannot deliver what it offers without fundamentally erasing free will, or appearing to be a terrifyingly all-powerful apocalyptic demon to any who refuse the choice to accept that only path to salvation. Japan experienced this in multiple forms underneath the various forced unifications under the Japanese Empire – most notably when Buddhism arrived and repressed & forcibly syncretized Shinto practices as a means to have unification with less bloodshed, which lead to State Shinto forming Imperial Japan where Buddhism & Christianity were oppressed, and the events of WWII leading to Japan's downfall & reformation under America.
While the Biblical Revelation apocalypse story used Babylon as a way to comment on at-the-time contemporary Imperial Rome, that symbolism is also key when examining the Crusades as religious fanaticism driven to exterminate non-believers in an identical way to how there is a ruthless loyalty with the Needle Knights that's hiding a truth of being unbelievably bloody & totalitarian towards any who MIGHT betray them. The Arthurian influences with the Roundtable Hold & gathering of knights under Leda match this, but there's another layer to it. A lot of post-WWII Japanese media has similarly used Tokyo & Babylon parallels that are HEAVILY present in Shadow of the Erdtree, but in particular with regard to the Hornsent as the people of the Tower – which was built to literally reach heaven like the Tower of Babel was, but in this context to serve as a Divine Gateway, ultimately leading to a horrible downfall under the new saviour deity – Marika the Eternal.
As Leda states, "Long ago, Queen Marika commanded Sir Messmer to purge the tower folk. A cleansing by fire. It’s no wonder the hornsent holds the Erdtree in contempt. That aside, man is by nature a creature of conquest. And in this regard, the tower folk are no different. They were never saints. They just happened to be on the losing side of a war. But it’s still a wretched shame." emphasizing very heavily why everything in the Realm of Shadow reflect the inconvenient pains & warcrimes that were hidden away post-WWII. Most notably to me are the mass graves and the hornsent all being blackened with the prolific presence of the Furnace Golems with the burning vortices of raining fire who can only be defeated by forcing their flame to burn itself out all as overt parallels to the firebombing of Tokyo during Operation MEETINGHOUSE (warning as the details are genuinely haunting).
This is why Marika exists in the base game as a permanent "Crucified Christ" who isn't resurrected, and that the new Elden Lord has to be one of the Tarnished who looks upon a land that cast out and rejected it, rather than allowing the eternal kingdom to feed itself from within. It's why Miquella's Rule will never escape the Land of Shadow, and acquiescing to that post-self-sacrifice Christ figure to take over the Golden Order is just an immediate game over of "Heart Stolen" during that boss fight.
While the player can look at the inner theological justifications to rebuilding the Golden Order in the forms of the various Mending Runes to resurrect Marika... those are ultimately just following that same path to permanent division. That's what the Genpei War solidified in Japanese history between the victorious Minamoto clan & the ousted Taira clan – and is why those reflections are central to Godwyn as a perfect heir whose untimely death & establishment of undeath are explored by the Golden Order's Hunters & Those Who Live in Death are the key examinations of the Mending Runes. While Malekith will initially admonish the Tarnished upon defeat by stating, "Witless Tarnished... Why covet Destined Death? To kill what?" collecting sufficient Deathroot for him as Gurranq leads to a more informed admission as Marika's Shadow that stands against doing that, "Forgive me, Marika... The Golden Order... cannot be restored."
Essentially it's rejecting that existential framework of an eternally perfect kingdom of supreme order as being a paradise, and only becoming a cage that necessitates a system of oppression or control that is ultimately self-defeating as the Runes are scars and, "These seals represent the lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods." which as they grow deeper, "Solemn duty weighs upon the one beholden; not unlike a gnawing curse from which there is no deliverance." very aptly describing the schism between Radagon & Marika trying to fracture & repair the Elden Ring, made even more poignant in how Fia's Mending Rune is literally her offspring with Godwyn. It's a "child" that's the embodiment of a concept that will establish a whole system of rule over everything... but the Runes themselves are a flawed power.
"Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth. One was cursed with eternal childhood, and the other harbored rot within." As such, Miquella as a "Resurrected Christ" follows that same theme as he's directly born of a singular divinity reflecting the conception offspring of the Great Ones in Bloodborne ultimately as the possession of a surrogate or the inadvertent reproduction of themselves. Miquella's themes are all interconnected into dreams and through St. Trina it's emphasizing the same "Awaken Above Ground" concepts from Bloodborne of dreams & death being indistinguishable for an Eternal being. Unlike the other Demigods who all have a mortal parent from whom they derive their individual traits, the Empyreans are just a singular divinity, and thus they're assigned Shadows to control them in the form of wolves, which is why it's worth looking at how those interconnections arose.
The Elden Ring itself is the amalgamate of all vast combination of various Great Runes combined together into the Greater Will's Golden Order, and this follows the same pattern with Bloodborne's Caryll Runes as symbols that represent the concept of words from the Great Ones. Thus, it's no surprise that the Rune for Formless Oedon which represents: "The Great One Oedon, lacking form, exists only in voice, and is symbolised by this rune. Those who memorize it enjoy a larger supply of Quicksilver Bullets. Human or no, the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One, Oedon. Both Oedon, and his inadvertent worshippers, surreptitiously seek the precious blood." and that Formless Oedon's Rune literally contains Marika's Rune within it when the Gold reveals itself in its completely realized form. Her history with Marika's Mischief allowing you to physically transform, and the Mimic Tears allowing rebirth connect to her own representation as being both herself and Radagon and the statue that captures their essence in the capital of Leyndell also reflects this.
The themes with this Rune being blood that eventually reveals gold within it also reflects what's recounted in the story of the Beginning in Shadow of the Erdtree when it comes to how the Great Ones create progeny with particular chosen: The seduction & the betrayal. It was an affair from which Gold arose, and so too was Shadow Born. Especially given that when Marika's crucified within the Erdtree, the lower portion of her rune is detached, and is crimson rather than gold, and speared through her like the Lance of Longinus. Formless Oedon's Rune also is about Blood, and whilst Morgott is the steward of the Throne in the absence of Queen Marika the Eternal... his twin Brother Mohg worships the Formless Mother, who is symbolized by three upwards gashes – the non-gold portion of the Formless Oedon Caryll Rune. Additionally, in the 1.0 version of Elden Ring the Nightmaiden & Swordstress Puppets that summons those Silver Tear beings of the Eternal City used to just state that it "summons the spirit of a descendant of Marika."
This symbolism and theme was clearly conceived during development in The Old Hunters, as the Nightmare Grand Cathedral is the resting place of Laurence, the First Vicar is before a statue of a headless woman standing in front of a tree and pouring something into his open mouth... which is identical to the Erdtree's Favor talisman depicting Queen Marika (and is also the only time that her longer braid is shown over her left shoulder). Moreso than that is the Skull of Laurence, "first vicar of the Healing Church. In reality he became the first cleric beast, and his human skull only exists within the Nightmare. The skull is a symbol of Laurence's past, and what he failed to protect. He is destined to seek his skull, but even if he found it, it could never restore his memories." Thus, Gurranq the Beast Clergyman also being Maliketh the Black Blade who failed to protect the Rune of Destined Death from being stolen, and being the Shadow used by the Two Fingers to control Queen Marika is incredibly overt as a shared parallel, but that extends further.
Bloodborne's Cleric Beasts are heavily identified by their horns which hold a key theme in Shadow of the Erdtree, as well as the Ancestral Worshippers in the base game. Whereas in Elden Ring, the Serpent consumes beings physically (HP restoration on kill), the Ancestral Spirits' horns allow them to be reborn through others' spirits (FP restoration on kill), and the boss fight is all about them regenerating while draining the spiritual animals around them and gaining those same traits. Horns symbolize that externalized possession to resurrect the dead, and the Curseblades' weapons were all about bloodletting, Long ago, this was employed by the ascetics who strove to become tutelary deities as a ritualistic object in their self-flagellating dances. To further emphasize this their masks state, "A mask affixed with a crown of tangled horns, worn by those who would invoke divinity. Divine invocation heightens the dexterity of the wearer, but causes the blessing of the Erdtree to become nauseating, reducing the restorative effect of drinking from a flask of sacred tears. Focus is also troubled by wearing this mask." Focus protects against two things – Sleep & Madness... the two key features of the Hunter's Nightmare full of blood & beasts, and the presence of Divine horns also diminishes the effectiveness of the restoration from the Erdtree's Favor which the Marika statue is pouring out into Laurence's mouth.
So, when it comes to the concepts here in the juxtaposition between the Tree Maiden's Blessing & the Horned Divine Beast, it's important to look at how Bloodborne has two transformative Oath Runes – both of which are rather meta in their depiction. While the Caryll Rune "Beast" (獣) depicts a Facehugger that is still active, whereas the Oath Rune "Embrace" (抱擁) shows it curled up the way the they look when they've hugged/embraced a victim with the tail curled, and also how they appear after they've implanted the Chestburster into the host – hence the transformative nature along with the Beast Claw weapon which turns you into the bestial werewolf-like beast. The other is the "Milkweed" (苗床) which are just stylistic representation of H.P. Lovecraft's initials. However, this last one has a number of overlaps to Elden Ring that are a bit more obscured by untranslatable connections, and easier to see by looking at both languages.
The English description, "A Caryll Rune envisioned by Adeline, patient of the Research Hall. A transcription of the inhumane, sticky whispers that reveal the nature of a celestial attendant. Those who take this oath become a lumenwood that peers towards the sky, feeding phantasms in its luscious bed. Phantasms guide us, and lead to further discoveries." – which hints at rather pivotal overlaps that are delivered but aren't as obvious unless you also know that the term translated as "Lumenwood" (星輪) in Japanese is built of two kanji which literally mean "Star" (星) & "Ring" (輪), and connects to a plant of some kind as it's (星輪の幹) becoming the trunk/stem of the Star-Ring. And the Elden Stars incantation states, "It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden STAR bearing a BEAST into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden RING."
It's also not just that... the description explicitly that this Lumenwood "peers into the sky" (空仰ぐ), and there is a very particular type of plant that is known for doing that – a Sunflower, which are found throughout the Lands Between, but explicitly the Scadutree Avatar – is a continually resurrecting Sunflower with literal eyes, whose remembrance states that, "The Scadutree is the shadow of the Erdtree." So, the thematic links to both the Beast & Lumenwood are present, but there's still more. The Milkweed name "苗床" is "Seedbed" which is the identical term used for Dung-Eater's questline in Elden Ring for spreading his Seedbed Curse, that infects everyone in every generation with Omen Horns in his own Mending Rune seeking to undo a taboo by passing it to everyone, which overlooks the danger of why that's a taboo in the first place. The Horns not only diminish the power of the Erdtree's healing, but it is a painful and horrid physical affliction... which spreads through Marika's offspring as easily as any other, and likely even moreso given her bloodline's affinity for binding with others, and all of the Golden Order suffering from that lineage and this schism.
Whilst the Tower practiced worship of Divinity through possession, like the Tower's Divine Beast possessing the Sculpted Keepers... Marika seems to have literally BECOME the divinity as she is a god from that point in some capacity. We know from Bonny Village items like the Tooth Whip that the shaman/miko of Marika's village has flesh that bonded uniquely to other beings. This is why they were butchered and placed into Jars in order to purify the criminals they were intertwined with, and we even see their bodies being merged with trees, and the golden trees in Enir-Ilim also have humanoid forms fully embedded within them. It's also why Marika is perfect for attempting to give birth to the child of a god, but like with Bloodborne, could just as easily become the god herself. The Elden Ring is literally housed inside her body, using it like a shell. It's only once Radagon breaks that the roles are reversed and the Elden Beast takes form and wields their fused bodies as the Sacred Relic Sword. Their nature entangles the Golden Order's eternal nature into any and every form they interconnect with, allowing for Godrick's Grafting, just as much as Rykard's fusion with the Serpent-God, and all the other horrors that grow from and into the children of the Erdtree.
Bloodborne's Fishing Hamlet Priest states, "Lay the curse of blood upon them, and their children, and their children's children, for evermore. Each wretched birth will plunge each child into a lifetime of misery. Mercy, for the poor, wizened child...Let the pungence of Kos cling, like a mother's devotion..." but with that Milkweed Oath Rune equipped he adds, "Curse here, curse there. A curse for he, and she, why care. A bottomless curse, a bottomless sea, source of all greatness, all things that be. Listen for the baneful chants. Weep with them, as one in trance. And weep with us, oh, weep with us... Listen for the baneful chants. A call to the bloodless, wherever they be. A call to the bloodless, wherever they be. Fix your ears, to hear our call." and he'll give you an Accursed Brew – a skull which has been forcibly searched for eyes... identical to the means of acquiring Runes in Elden Ring come from the eyes of the deceased, often seen in skulls haplessly strewn about landscape in both the Lands Between & the Realm of Shadow. Showing that likely none of the Mending Runes for the Golden Order are a solution, just spreading a different curse, similar to the addiction to power from consuming Draconic Hearts, or Blood-Drunk Hunters.
Dung Eater's Seedbed Curse even has an associated transformation in Shadow of the Erdtree in the form of the Lamenter's Mask – a transformation that even the people of the Tower who worshipped the divine appearance of horns shunned and locked away, "This transformation tallies with the state of a denizen of paradise, but the people of the tower denied and hid it from the world. In their foolishness, they viewed true bliss with deep fear." and the Lamenter boss will mass clone itself while hiding. Any clone that survives when the Lamenter reappears adds a curse on you. If 7 curses are applied, you will instantly die. To stop the spread of a curse, you can't just go after the source – you have to destroy the spread as well... which is critical to understand what the Subterranean Shunning-Ground below Leyndell is, as the Frenzied Flame cannot be safely interacted with.
That madness spreads & annihilates, and while the Merchants' plight is a terrible one, that type of quarantine is necessary. The issue is that Runes in and of themselves are their own form of curse that creates that pain. The Rune Arc shape of Marika's crucifixion having Golden Arc Incantations of the Tower, "The arc resembles the barb, a known symbol of coercive questioning." just like those on Jori the Inquisitor's Barbed Spear-Staff, and the Greatsword of Damnation used to execute Midra who is contained and forced to endure that suffering past his breaking point... exactly. like. Marika. That type of eternal power cannot exist safely... but neither can its inverse. The madness of the Lord of Chaos that erases the lines that distinguish individuals is like erasing the separation of puppet & puppeteer. Thus why as soon as the Three Fingers touches you, it IS you... and that Annihilation is driven by the same Frenzied madness that the Great Ones suffer in Bloodborne, from having a non-dual relationship to their own offspring like Arianna & her child... except that a Lord of Frenzied Flame will eradicate the whole of existence in its entirety.
It is a genuine anti-Christ figure masquerading as a saviour, representing a perfect reflection of eternity as utter non-existence, fueled by ascribing purpose to one's own inescapable suffering. It's no coincidence that Shabriri's iconography and those themes heavily parallel Shoko Asahara & Aum Shinrikyo who were responsible for the Tokyo Sarin Gas terrorist attacks, which was catalyzed by an inversion of Japanese nationalism. Thus it's no surprise that he possesses Yura's body who died failing in his attempt to save the legacy of someone he loved, and that pain is exactly how that type of grudge & curse form. Tolerating that type of apocalyptic intolerance only allows the influence and that intolerance to grow, and this is that same type of ideological curse that emerges from those where suffering breeds a hatred that feels justified... but accomplishes nothing but fueling greater hatred in any action that it takes. That's why the Leyndell soldiers near Volcano Manor have descended into that madness from the ceaseless fighting and are cannibalizing one another. It is a flame that feeds on burning itself as fuel, which is why you have to sacrifice yourself as kindling for it, and how it preys upon the noble & vulnerable looking to save their beloved maidens from harm, only to corrupt potential Elden Lords like Vyke into madness.
This danger is why this takes the properties of the Lovecraftian King in Yellow & Yellow Sign with the Lord of Chaos, where ANY form of exposure is total risk. Absolute quarantine is the only way to deal with it, and thus the only reversal is utilizing Miquella's Needle to implant his power of absolute coercion into your physical form to align the Outer God's will to your specific body by embedding the needle into your flesh at a location that is removed from localized space-time. The only other option is that intolerance of intolerance is reflected... which just gets the atrocities committed in the Lands of Shadow being justified by the force with enough power to portray the thing that they hate as a threat, because a practice that may have once been noble becomes conflated with torture & oppression with the imbalance of the power dynamic is eternally enshrined.
As perverse & terrible as the butchering that was done to Marika's people was... it DID actually turn the once-criminal individuals stuffed into living jars into noble warriors who were granted a hidden village of their own to live at peace amongst flowers, and to be tended to by Potentates in a strange fusion of a reconciliation between Bonny Village & the Shaman Village... only to once again be hunted & slaughtered for material from their bodies to be used, this time by the Perfumers while the soft kindness of the Potentates meant that they were vulnerable.
This is what finally brings everything to the final details, which is how those dynamics all come together to portray the version of an opposite to BOTH a Christ figure AND an Anti-Christ figure... which is to embrace mortality and allow Marika the Eternal to die, but also allow yourself to meet Destined Death. Return the experience of joy & pain to be something shared collectively rather than forced onto others, because it is impermanent. In essence reject the idea of the entire system of Eternal kingdoms outright.
This is what emphasizes the elements about Ranni's Age of Stars in juxtaposition to that entire dynamic, as well as in a foil to Miquella's own vision. Ranni is also an Empyrean. She eschews her Great Rune, abandons her flesh, and gives up her claim to the throne. Those all mirror the path Miquella takes... but there's a key difference. Ranni's alliances are all made by CHOICE, not through compulsion. You join her because you choose to, not because she forces you to. When you pledge to her cause and the deed is done, she releases you from service, which is also why she tells you to tell Iji & Blaidd that she loves them, as their nature to her will compel them to follow her without true agency of choice. Blaidd manages to resist enough to never betray her from that attachment, but still goes insane and you have to kill him for the same reason that you killed Darriwill & Radahn – an eternity imprisoned as a monster isn't a just end to someone you cared for. A noble, destined death is what the Radahn festival was all about and why Miquella's machinations are the antithesis of that... because he's just a child who always gets whatever he wants and believes it's always for the best.
When Miquella abandoned St. Trina, he removed the love and companionship that cared and understood what protection he needed. He manipulated Malenia to kill Radahn for him, and Radahn held the stars themselves in place to avoid becoming his consort. He manipulated Mohg to take him from the Haligtree and gave him visions of a new dynasty, and left his physical vessel such that Mohg could never revive him as a god and bring about the Mohgwyn Dynasty. He then used Mohg's corpse as a vessel to attach Radahn's soul to after he'd been killed before he became a total mindless beast, because he needed a Lord as a vessel to bind himself to in order to ascend to true Divinity. He wants to become the puppeteer, not free the puppets.
Ranni's entire purpose is a puppet cutting its own strings and ending that relationship – hence why Seluvis dies when the Puppets have their own agency and they turn on Pidia. It's why she allows Marika to perish in peace, and makes an oath to every living being & soul, as well as only turns violence against her own Two Fingers, and nothing else. You fundamentally cannot defeat her, but you don't have to join her on her journey into the Stars. Her path is one of the freedom of choice that comes from not knowing that there is a god. No ability to form a certainty of righteous divinity means that the power structures left in the world will be impermanent, and only guided for 1000 years under the moon in ways that the cannot perceive from that place exactly like the dark side of the moon.
It's an impermanent choice, and it's one not unlike what Marika made to escape the overwhelming oppression that she was under. Like Count Ymir mentions of Marika's mother & of Metyr herself, the flaw is that they were ALL damaged and in pain that shaped them, and their constant presence in overcoming that conflict further solidified that. Ranni removes herself from everything aside from only slaying the Two Fingers that she alone had the power to oppose thanks to you. While the Aliens of the Stars are as far removed from the Beasts of the Earth as possible, Bloodborne is very clear the cold detachment & burning obsessions are equally dangerous states for the Mind or the Heart.
Thus the danger inherent to Ranni making that journey alone is the same cold, darkness of the Lunar relationship that we first visited with the Moon Presence in Bloodborne – the fear, doubt, & loneliness of that isolation. She's a doll who has cut off all of the things that make her human aside from her individual will. If she accepts Destined Death, then the yearning for a surrogate child or companion will lead this back down an identically familiar path... but there's an intentional parallel to the "Childhood's Beginning" ending of Bloodborne, where the doll takes your Great One form off of the ground, cradles you in her arms, and asks if you're cold – especially as her attire states, "A deep love for the doll can be surmised by the fine craftsmanship of this article, and the care with which it was kept. It borderlines on mania, and exudes a slight warmth."
You bring Ranni the love and the warmth of companionship of someone who chose that path willingly while knowing that it comes at a cost, and made the choice to pay that cost anyway. That situation not only ensures that the being who's ascending to a divinity isn't alone the way that the Great Ones are, but also that she's not experiencing the same trauma that her mother did when Radagon abandoned her. Her path is one that's not as likely to be amplifying or perpetuating those past struggles under the Golden Order to become permanent trauma that repeat the way Marika's did in syncretizing with the beliefs of the Tower to replace it, because Ranni's eschews those things altogether.
It's ensuring that as Elden Lord don't continue to suffer being maidenless in isolation and aren't left with the existential loss that drove Vyke & Bernahl away from the path of Elden Lord into into the path of Madness or being a Recusant unable to accept that pain, but it's finding a way to heal from the loss. The Mending Runes for Marika appear to do that, but it's also ignoring that Marika's other self in Radagon's attempts to do that have failed, and her shadow in Malekith also opposes the idea, as well as the promise that Master Hewg commits himself to ensuring that he creates a weapon capable of slaying a god.
Allowing her to die is honoring a choice that she wants, as is a Tarnished coming to claim the throne in whatever way they deem fit, and she can't facilitate them on her own any more than Ranni could. Conversely, it's also not mistaking Lord of Chaos killing Marika being a path of justice that solves things, as that's just releasing all of the protections of order and indiscriminately unleashing perpetual death... which is why Melina vows to bring Destined Death to the Lord of Chaos to protect order, even while she facilitates the destruction of the Erdtree. Ranni's path is the atheist approach to a Christ & Anti-Christ conflict, which is what the historic amplification of generational trauma from civil war becomes as two sides can't view one another with objectivity.
While the Arthurian love triangle of Arthur, Lancelot, & Guinevere looked at that balance, and that heavily informed BERSERK setting up the dynamic between Griffith, Guts, & Casca the intertwined nature of their relationships don't allow for the role of a player character to interact with those paths as individual agents. Blaidd's & Radahn's vulnerabilities are an overt parallel to Guts and the idea of him as Griffith's possession is why I expect that the thematic elements with Godwyn that are included in the setting of Shadow of the Erdtree don't use that Taira & Minamoto historical civil war dynamic to explore the dangers of a beloved messianic figure coming into power or returning from the dead in a messianic resurrection parallel, as those modern links are much easier to see, but also they build off of the thematic constructs of the Souls-connected mythos itself.
As the DLC just adds in more supporting context, rather than creating a new ending for the game, digging into all of those overlaps and visual design conveyances has been really captivating to contemplate.
While there's a lot of other highly interesting things with the new Dragon Heart transformations, those... have a lot of pieces where the core design elements are linked REALLY heavily to themes in 1.0 content from Elden Ring that seem to have been redesigned a lot in the story framework. Since the DLC doesn't have content from that, some bits and pieces of trying to unpack that feel extremely speculative, so they'd probably merit their own meandering through various details if at some point anyone feels the compulsion to wade through even more walls of text.
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
A fun look at some of the previous titles' DNA showing up in the trailer:
So, it's worth getting into some breakdowns on what we ACTUALLY know about Nightreign thus far:
Wes Fenlon from PC Gamer was one first 6 people in the world who actually got to play the game, so his insights about the mechanics are especially nice to hear about first hand.
www.pcgamer.com
Additionally, there's an interview on Famitsu (in Japanese) & IGN (in English) with the director Junya Ishizaki that breaks down some of the details: 『エルデンリング ナイトレイン』は3人で3日間を生き抜くオンライン協力プレイのサバイバルアクションに。ディレクターが詳細を語る国内メディア独占インタビュー | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com
nordic.ign.com
Vaati condenses some of the info about the unique character/classes that have been shown or mentioned:
Some standouts that have me ridiculously excited for how this is being implemented:
• The Director Junya Ishizaki was a Level Designer on the original Dark Souls, was a Level Designer & Battle Designer for Bloodborne, and was the Combat Designer for both Dark Souls 3 & Elden Ring.
–– This gives a really good background to his perspective on taking and pushing those elements EXTRA far here in Nightreign. It's very clear that all 8 classes are meant to give a hyper-elevated version of the Souls-like combat that are all exceptionally specialized, and I think that's likely born out of him being core to those two key design elements of the whole series, and wanting to really push the limits of what kind of really fun & intense experience that you can have with those. One of the biggest strengths & weaknesses of Elden Ring that started to become apparent in Shadow of the Erdtree is just how many ways there are to play the game. It means that bosses start to get a lot more difficult to balance, because there's a near-endless number of ways to approach those challenges – but it also means that as a Designer you're just full of intense ideas for things you could try but in ways that almost no player will likely ever experience. With 8 specialized classes & a 3-player focused approach, you can now start to make really big boss encounters and maintain the balance a lot easier to manage from a QA/testing perspective because there are tighter variables. Nightreign is in every way the sort of sandbox that someone like him would really want to be able to make because those are the core parts of the Souls-like experience that he's most well-versed in AND they're the bits that he's uniquely passionate about, so he's PERFECT to have as a director leading this.
• It's a completely standalone experience focused on 3-player co-op, but it can also be played totally solo (no 2 player option), and it's NOT a Live Service game. Additionally, it takes place in a parallel world from Elden Ring where it operates independently to the content of the story itself, and the variable region is instead a region known as Limveld (not Limgrave).
–– I see this as something akin to Dissidia that allows for them to play around in the sandbox a bit more with previous greatest hits type things all in one centralized location, married to something like FFXV Comrades where there's a standalone co-op element that's built around delivering a similar experience to the core game but in a more condensed manner than a full RPG. Again, if you look at his background, and the overt inclusion of all the Dark Souls, Bloodborne, & Sekiro details here, it's a sandbox in the very best of ways driven by the things that they liked, but he also mentions explicitly that they looked all all sorts of different types of games for inspiration to make this something different and that they're still committed to ensuring that players can still enjoy the entire thing out-of-the-box, which removes all the downsides of why Live Service is such a drag, and I'm glad it's not one.
• Limveld has randomly generated drops, but a generally consistent geographical layout... however there are some components of that which can apparently modify elements of the map layout which have yet to be shown and weren't in the early playtests that the few journalists got to try. Each session is started by you selecting the boss that you want to fight at the end of Night 3 (though the actual boss has a name different from how it's selected). Each run is unique and works in a Rogue-like way, though there is a form of Rogue-lite meta progression as well in the form of Relic Rites that you can purchase with Murk (along with gestures & skins for character customization).
–– This gets into the heart of where this VERY much has the elements of Bloodborne's Root Chalice dungeons which had difficulty scaling that's more conceptually designed around having multiple players, and procedurally generated challenge content to give players things to do. In the Famitsu interview, Ishizaki even mentions that the Relic Rites as the lasting progression element are like the Blood Gems from Bloodborne in being character-level modifiers – and given that that's what the Chalice dungeon farming is basically for, this has the DNA of something that they've been wanting to do for a while in some capacity. Given that the Bloodborne's Chalice Dungeons still have variables that change what the dungeon elements are like between Pthumeru, Hintertomb, Loran, & Isz – I expect that there's likely a similar type of variable that will alter the physical layout of Limveld beyond just the "Chalice Depth" type difficulty of any of the given bosses. While I was surprised that Elden Ring didn't implement any of the Chalice Dungeon-like procedural replayability, it very much seems like all of that effort went into this experience where it is much better off.
• There are no messages, invasions, character creation, or PvP in the game, but there is still a passive online component. You can see phantoms, and there are unique enemies that form from Bloodstains of defeated players that are an exceptional source of loot if they're defeated. The inventory is limited, there are no weapon requirements or weight limitations, as weapons have passive buffs, so your loadout of picking up weapons will depend on how you're running your build in any given run. Everything is streamlined into the 8 "class" characters who all have their own unique abilities & narratives that will progress as you go through the game, as you can talk to all the others at the Roundtable Hold between sessions. Every time a session starts, aside from the Murk upgrades that you have, you restart at Lv1 and have to level up & progress like you would in a normal Souls-like game. All enemies defeated grant runes to all 3 players, and downed players can be revived by attacking them. Where even simple enemies present a "wall" to players in Souls games, these are meant to feel more like they do when you're starting out stronger, and they're a quick path to upgrading in the 15-minute day cycle between boss fights.
–– There's a very clear focus on creating this standalone as being a "condensed full RPG experience" and while there's the Battle Royal circle that closes in to the boss arena and other elements that are familiar from other formats, the character class unique traits, ultimates, and other more fast-paced design with bosses appearing at a set timer interval actually reminds me a LOT MORE of what Survivor-likes play like. Even the hub world format for games like Death Must Die use for having their various characters talk, along with diving into the experience at Lv1 every time have this really unique feedback loop where the DNA of Souls games very clearly helped to craft elements of that genre in how it fused with Diablo-like ARPGs, and now it's circling back around to be an ACTUAL FromSoft game. The pace means that Invasions, PvP, & Messages just don't match, and while this experience doesn't have the same challenge, it's because those are things that work a lot better in a slower RPG setting. One of the things about replaying Souls games (which only a small number of dedicated players even do) and going for new & interesting builds is that the base enemies aren't so much a barrier as they are just something that slow you down from getting to the equipment that you want if you're playing it in NG+ whereas if you're replaying from Lv1 it's more difficult to get all the requisite things to make a particular build. This format basically does the best of ALL of that so that you can flex into 8 different ways of playing that are all focused on a particular approach & radically different from one another in ways that are collectively complimentary. Attacking your allies to heal them means that you're not getting players who are entirely removed from the core gameplay to be supports either – and I expect it's also why the balance doesn't work for PvP, leading to why the Colosseums were added to Elden Ring directly, but this element exists as a standalone instead of an addition to the base game.
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Overall, this seems like it's gonna be an absolute blast to play whenever it drops in 2025.
X
So, it's worth getting into some breakdowns on what we ACTUALLY know about Nightreign thus far:
Wes Fenlon from PC Gamer was one first 6 people in the world who actually got to play the game, so his insights about the mechanics are especially nice to hear about first hand.
Elden Ring: Nightreign hands-on: 6 hours with FromSoftware's wild new co-op roguelike action RPG remix
We played the new Elden Ring spin-off and talked with FromSoftware about what to expect from the 2025 game.
Additionally, there's an interview on Famitsu (in Japanese) & IGN (in English) with the director Junya Ishizaki that breaks down some of the details: 『エルデンリング ナイトレイン』は3人で3日間を生き抜くオンライン協力プレイのサバイバルアクションに。ディレクターが詳細を語る国内メディア独占インタビュー | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com
Elden Ring Nightreign: FromSoftware Game Director Explains Why the Spin-Off Exists, Reveals Whether George R. R. Martin Was Involved, and Why Fans Shouldn’t Call It a Live Service
"I saw this as an opportunity to do something different."
Vaati condenses some of the info about the unique character/classes that have been shown or mentioned:
Some standouts that have me ridiculously excited for how this is being implemented:
• The Director Junya Ishizaki was a Level Designer on the original Dark Souls, was a Level Designer & Battle Designer for Bloodborne, and was the Combat Designer for both Dark Souls 3 & Elden Ring.
–– This gives a really good background to his perspective on taking and pushing those elements EXTRA far here in Nightreign. It's very clear that all 8 classes are meant to give a hyper-elevated version of the Souls-like combat that are all exceptionally specialized, and I think that's likely born out of him being core to those two key design elements of the whole series, and wanting to really push the limits of what kind of really fun & intense experience that you can have with those. One of the biggest strengths & weaknesses of Elden Ring that started to become apparent in Shadow of the Erdtree is just how many ways there are to play the game. It means that bosses start to get a lot more difficult to balance, because there's a near-endless number of ways to approach those challenges – but it also means that as a Designer you're just full of intense ideas for things you could try but in ways that almost no player will likely ever experience. With 8 specialized classes & a 3-player focused approach, you can now start to make really big boss encounters and maintain the balance a lot easier to manage from a QA/testing perspective because there are tighter variables. Nightreign is in every way the sort of sandbox that someone like him would really want to be able to make because those are the core parts of the Souls-like experience that he's most well-versed in AND they're the bits that he's uniquely passionate about, so he's PERFECT to have as a director leading this.
• It's a completely standalone experience focused on 3-player co-op, but it can also be played totally solo (no 2 player option), and it's NOT a Live Service game. Additionally, it takes place in a parallel world from Elden Ring where it operates independently to the content of the story itself, and the variable region is instead a region known as Limveld (not Limgrave).
–– I see this as something akin to Dissidia that allows for them to play around in the sandbox a bit more with previous greatest hits type things all in one centralized location, married to something like FFXV Comrades where there's a standalone co-op element that's built around delivering a similar experience to the core game but in a more condensed manner than a full RPG. Again, if you look at his background, and the overt inclusion of all the Dark Souls, Bloodborne, & Sekiro details here, it's a sandbox in the very best of ways driven by the things that they liked, but he also mentions explicitly that they looked all all sorts of different types of games for inspiration to make this something different and that they're still committed to ensuring that players can still enjoy the entire thing out-of-the-box, which removes all the downsides of why Live Service is such a drag, and I'm glad it's not one.
• Limveld has randomly generated drops, but a generally consistent geographical layout... however there are some components of that which can apparently modify elements of the map layout which have yet to be shown and weren't in the early playtests that the few journalists got to try. Each session is started by you selecting the boss that you want to fight at the end of Night 3 (though the actual boss has a name different from how it's selected). Each run is unique and works in a Rogue-like way, though there is a form of Rogue-lite meta progression as well in the form of Relic Rites that you can purchase with Murk (along with gestures & skins for character customization).
–– This gets into the heart of where this VERY much has the elements of Bloodborne's Root Chalice dungeons which had difficulty scaling that's more conceptually designed around having multiple players, and procedurally generated challenge content to give players things to do. In the Famitsu interview, Ishizaki even mentions that the Relic Rites as the lasting progression element are like the Blood Gems from Bloodborne in being character-level modifiers – and given that that's what the Chalice dungeon farming is basically for, this has the DNA of something that they've been wanting to do for a while in some capacity. Given that the Bloodborne's Chalice Dungeons still have variables that change what the dungeon elements are like between Pthumeru, Hintertomb, Loran, & Isz – I expect that there's likely a similar type of variable that will alter the physical layout of Limveld beyond just the "Chalice Depth" type difficulty of any of the given bosses. While I was surprised that Elden Ring didn't implement any of the Chalice Dungeon-like procedural replayability, it very much seems like all of that effort went into this experience where it is much better off.
• There are no messages, invasions, character creation, or PvP in the game, but there is still a passive online component. You can see phantoms, and there are unique enemies that form from Bloodstains of defeated players that are an exceptional source of loot if they're defeated. The inventory is limited, there are no weapon requirements or weight limitations, as weapons have passive buffs, so your loadout of picking up weapons will depend on how you're running your build in any given run. Everything is streamlined into the 8 "class" characters who all have their own unique abilities & narratives that will progress as you go through the game, as you can talk to all the others at the Roundtable Hold between sessions. Every time a session starts, aside from the Murk upgrades that you have, you restart at Lv1 and have to level up & progress like you would in a normal Souls-like game. All enemies defeated grant runes to all 3 players, and downed players can be revived by attacking them. Where even simple enemies present a "wall" to players in Souls games, these are meant to feel more like they do when you're starting out stronger, and they're a quick path to upgrading in the 15-minute day cycle between boss fights.
–– There's a very clear focus on creating this standalone as being a "condensed full RPG experience" and while there's the Battle Royal circle that closes in to the boss arena and other elements that are familiar from other formats, the character class unique traits, ultimates, and other more fast-paced design with bosses appearing at a set timer interval actually reminds me a LOT MORE of what Survivor-likes play like. Even the hub world format for games like Death Must Die use for having their various characters talk, along with diving into the experience at Lv1 every time have this really unique feedback loop where the DNA of Souls games very clearly helped to craft elements of that genre in how it fused with Diablo-like ARPGs, and now it's circling back around to be an ACTUAL FromSoft game. The pace means that Invasions, PvP, & Messages just don't match, and while this experience doesn't have the same challenge, it's because those are things that work a lot better in a slower RPG setting. One of the things about replaying Souls games (which only a small number of dedicated players even do) and going for new & interesting builds is that the base enemies aren't so much a barrier as they are just something that slow you down from getting to the equipment that you want if you're playing it in NG+ whereas if you're replaying from Lv1 it's more difficult to get all the requisite things to make a particular build. This format basically does the best of ALL of that so that you can flex into 8 different ways of playing that are all focused on a particular approach & radically different from one another in ways that are collectively complimentary. Attacking your allies to heal them means that you're not getting players who are entirely removed from the core gameplay to be supports either – and I expect it's also why the balance doesn't work for PvP, leading to why the Colosseums were added to Elden Ring directly, but this element exists as a standalone instead of an addition to the base game.
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Overall, this seems like it's gonna be an absolute blast to play whenever it drops in 2025.
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Figured I'd go on a bit of a meander about the visual designs and some of the other interesting opportunities that exist in how they may go about adding in various enemies into the core lineup of Elden Ring enemies by taking a wander through some of the underlying design guidelines & visual elements of the games. Given that it's not limited to just Elden RIng, I've tossed it all into a spoiler tag, and there'll be various links to video references, but I don't expect that the auto embeds will function after a certain point, so they'll probably just end up as links once those don't auto-convert.
Insofar as the game itself:
Aside from just the "rule of cool" bosses, I think that bosses who have something really unique insofar as gameplay is concerned have a high probability to show up if they ALSO have something that has a good alignment of the underlying design rules that Elden Ring's setting uses. Given that we know that the core movesets of bosses are VERY often reused as assets in new From games, I'd also be really interested in how much of the other games' entities are not just ported but potentially even expanded upon from what it was in its source game.
The other gameplay element that's got me thinking a lot about the pacing and the high probability of the returning bosses being updated is that Elden Ring's gameplay has something VERY specific to it that isn't nearly as true of Souls, Sekiro, or Bloodborne which is how its bosses are paced. While the previous games had to give you room for things, and as a result the boss fights become a bit more of a dance, because you're always their only partner. Elden Ring REALLY gives you an overwhelming amount of tools to more effectively interrupt or direct the pace of the fight on your own terms (which ties into the core theme of becoming Elden Lord and being THE person who has to set that sort of tone for the lands over which you now preside), but ESPECIALLY in terms of Spirit Ashes. Shadow of the Erdtree putting more emphasis on them clearly designing boss fights around mechanics with summoned co-operators – especially with the final boss.
Nightreign being a Co-op ARPG that's either solo OR three-player very much focuses in around this element in particular, and the way in which the Cerberus-like Red Wolf of Radagon from the trailer is shown as a single boss, but then also splitting out into 3 separate targets shows that they're VERY focused on striking an intentional balance of an ebb & flow to this element of how the bigger combat encounters are designed. It's one of the things that I think is bound to be SUPER interesting about the game and how it plays.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST:
REGISTRATION FOR THE CLOSED NETWORK TEST OPENS JANUARY 10TH – US Site / EU Site / JP Site
The actual Closed Network Test will start in February, so we'll be getting a solid look at the game REALLY soon. As the network elements are going to be paramount for this to function, I'd also expect that this likely won't be the only one. (Unfortunately it's being limited to cross-generation play, and isn't supporting cross-platform, though maybe fingers crossed they might go for that at some point later depending on what sort of complexities they have to deal with in getting everything working well). Overall though, I expect that we'll be seeing a lot of feedback about the overall gameplay loop, since according to the few journalists who did play it, it took a few hours to really get the feel for it and something like this is gonna work FAR better than anything else they could do to get people to wrap their heads around it in ways that other trailers & showcases won't do as well.
X
The Parasitic Spider from Dark Souls II showed up in the Nightreign trailer, which is really reminiscent of the Parasitic Spider Crab in Elden Ring that controls the Cemetery Shades, and given that Spiders & Parasitism is a common theme that's used, but Elden Ring had in a little bit of a weird middle ground, it'll be neat to see which overlapping designs end up getting brought together.
Spiders have had a lot of themes throughout the Souls games, but the Crab fusion with the subject's head also having the moth feelers on the Cemetery Shades remines me particularly of Bloodborne with the Garden of Eyes whose head is a squishy Spider whose body is like a half-developed cocoon with butterfly wings. Those designs directly overlap with the Amygdala having glowing limbs like the Cemetery Shade's Crab has while the Amygala's Winter Lantern heads were used in Shadow of the Erdtree, and also links to how Mergo's Wet Nurse has the physical form of a headless Amygdala. The Amygdala's tail and fused body is a trait shared by Elden Ring's Pests with their bodies seemingly formed of interconnected parts, and a theme all about rot & rebirth with them having a hatchery in one of the catacombs of the Caelid Waypoint Ruins.
Since in Bloodborne, Patches is an Amyglada-worshipping Spider with a human head, I do hope that he's got some twisted referential appearance in Nightreign where he'll sabotage you somehow before running away or similar Patches-type reference amongst these arachnid types. As things started out with Bloodborne's more simple decapitation & reattaching heads to other bodies (which they also do with crows & dogs), Shadow of the Erdtree opened up on all this a bit more with the Pests by giving us the Spider-Scorpions & Romina, showing this same sort of multi-body fusion between insects being explicitly tied into the Scarlet Rot – and the Parasitic Spider is shown walking in a new Scarlet Rot area during the Nightreign trailer.
This all also comes together with the the Gaping Dragon in Dark Souls & the Fluorescent Flowers in Bloodborne, as the Gaping Dragon isn't just a regular dragon, but it's got a centaur-like extra torso with an additional set of limbs (4 wings, 4 arms, 2 legs), and a similarly multi-segmented body that's very similar body type to all of the 4-armed Pests in Elden Ring. The similarly centipede-like front body and the Pests having a conical snail shell on their heads is all also reminiscent of the Fluorescent Flower overlaps with the Gaping Dragon as well as using thread attacks akin to the Cemetery Shade, as well as having weapons in the Pest Glaive & Mantis Blade that hint at a ken of higher and unknowably alien intellect, which intersects with the Fluorescent Flower name overlapping to the Lumenwood themes that carried over from Bloodborne into Elden Ring that I mentioned when talking about theme overlaps between both games.
All of the Ancient Dragons in Elden Ring & Darkeater Midir from Dark Souls III have (4 wings, 2 arms & 2 legs), the humanoid Dragon God, Consumed King, Magma Wyrms, & Bayle the Dread (2 wings, 2 arms, 2 legs) as well as the more Draconic Kalameet, Ancient Dragon, Sinh, (also 2 wings, 2 arms, 2 legs), the Storm Drake that Nameless King rides (4 wing, 2 legs, no arms), or the Demons' Souls & Dark Souls early Drakes/Dragons, Dark Souls III's Ancient Wyverns and Elden Ring's scaleless Lesser Dragons (2 wings & 2 legs).
Seath the Scaleless has the pale slug-like mutant lower half that shows up in the inhabitants of the Fishing Village in Bloodborne, where those themes get associated to this sort of slimy eldritch appearance that's reminiscent of what the Elden Beast looks like in Elden Ring as it uses Radagon/Marika as a host. Those themes are all interconnected to plants & parasitism: Kos Parasite, Lumenwood, Erdtree, etc. and also have an intersection with designs like the Consumed King & Rom's body growing Scarlet Rot-like fungal flowers on them paired with a heavy overlap into elements of formlessness with things like the Consumed King's child Oscelotte in Dark Souls III & Mergo in Bloodborne being children who can't be seen.
Those are things are a part of the path that comes along with that sort of elevation of self and the loss of a Human Heart that Shadow of the Erdtree explores with an ancient dragon in human form literally named after a flower – Florissax, with the Dragon's Calorbloom flowers growing from the hearts of the deceased Dragon Communion practitioners. All the alien floral themes associated with Kin are a part of what the design of the Pests & Goddess of Rot represent in Elden Ring, just as much as the interconnected relationship between the Runes empowering the host that hosts them within their body, as it's a split between the will of the individual and the Rune as the will of a Greater intellect finding a host.
In juxtaposition to those are the Beast elements as their blood is undecaying and they're the unthinkingly loyal guardians of the Dragons in Farum Azula. Beasts and specifically Wolves are the Shadows of the Empyreans in a dark juxtaposition to the Lumenwood's light themes. Ragagon serves as a representation of attempting to balance Intelligence & Faith and so it's interesting that the first of the confirmed new bosses in Nightreign is a Cerberus Red Wolf of Radagon who can split apart or fuse together and help to carry those themes. They're represented in the elevation in being gifted 5 fingers instead of 4, whereas the Cosmic beings & Ancient dragons have 6 fingers to represent a different type of more highly elevated intellect, which we also see in Bloodborne on beings like Amygdala.
As those elements get more draconic, we start to see things like the Undead Beastmen who can breathe fire, but also there tends to be a lot of motifs of the human being consumed from within by that change, so things like the Magma Wyrms & Dragon God that have overtly human qualities get multiple rows of teeth in semi-separate jaws. Those have a similar overlap to a lot of how Prometheus portrays this sort of dichotomy between the Xenomorphs as Beasts that transform Humans into murderous monsters (which stand in juxtaposition to the pale Engineers & Androids as pale-blooded Artificial Kin, following a lot of the same designs that Bloodborne uses for the Pthumerians & Albinaurics).
www.youtube.com
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Those take on an even greater emphasis on those themes being interconnected that the series has only VERY lightly touched on when Beasts become parasitized and their heads start to become an auxiliary appendage, like Bloodborne's Loran Silverbeasts whose heads split, are capable of breathing flame with an ignition source from their head's twisted sideways jaws in the same way that the new Dragon in the Nightreign trailer does, and who have the Hateful Maggots burst out of their corpses unless they're burned. In Bloodborne, eventually those parasitized Beasts become something like the Bloodletting Beast which, just like the subjects of the Clocktower have their heads eventually lost as they're a vestigial limb at that point, and this is something that Sekiro also explored with the Guardian Ape & a number of other bosses also utilizing the Centipede motif. This theme of living again after being killed is why the Rune of Death breaks into the twin split centipede mark in Elden Ring, which is from a Japanese proverb where if you kill a centipede another one will show up to bite you, and the only way to avoid this is to burn them instead of crush them. (This is why D's twin takes his armor and shows up to kill Fia after he's murdered, and a number of other intertwined elements like Godwyn & Ranni's deaths).
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However, there is a possibility to get a culmination of ALL of those qualities where a Kin, Beast, & Great One ALL overlap where those Draconic facial qualities start to show through again since the Mind & Body are intertwined rather than being a puppeted host. The elemental nature of Fire that beasts & dragons breathe changes to Lightning – hence in Elden Ring, the Dragon Communion hearts forming "Calorblooms" meaning "heat" rather than the Ancient Dragons' Fulgurblooms meaning "lightning" and also getting into why Bayle's lightning is Fire Lightning in parallel to the Dragonkin Soldiers' Ice Lightning as they're both stages of being NEARLY fully draconic but not quite reaching that (especially as Placidusax as the Dragon Lord isn't a "Dragon type" enemy any longer, and has an incantation that requires only Faith and NOT Arcane – the element associated with Blood & physical transformation whereas Bayle's is purely Arcane). This triplicate balance was created but fully unused in Bloodborne as the Great One Beast – something that'd be REALLY neat to see actually completed & brought into Nightreign as a new boss given how it aligns to the underlying themes really well, and how similar it is to a more draconic version of the Red Wolf of Radagon.
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To bring things around to the other side – most of the Draconic elements in Elden Ring are all centered around the split between Faith & Arcane, but there is a very strong presence of draconic loyalty associated with Ranni & other Lunar themes, which go back to Dark Souls with the Moonlight Butterfly and how those themes intersect with the Moonlight Greatsword, as well as the twin helix designs of the Fingerslayer Blade, Godslayer Greatsword & Sacred Relic Sword (thanks to Evangelion's Lance of Longinus as the original god-slayer weapon design). This is likely interconnected to the emerging metamorphosis designs for the transformation in the Garden of Eyes in Bloodborne as well as the moth-like feelers from the Cemetery Shade's Crab having an overlap of Insight rather than Faith leading to changes, and things like the Vacuous Rom having those spider-like qualities but no mind to go along with it as the butterfly is a representation of the spirit of the deceased in Japan, so that type of metamorphosis being transcendental, and Ebrietas having a very similar physiology to Seeth the Scaleless starts to emphasize some of those splits between Sleep & Madness that's mainly represented by Intelligence in Elden Ring. Though there are a lot of different hot/cold binaries, the Glintstone elements are particularly prominent in being unique to that type of cold detachment from the physical form and puppetry like Ranni's own four-limbed doll has that is also heavily thematically tied into the elements of night & darkness that we see in the Cemetery Shades.
www.youtube.com
Like the Glintstone grows from the bodies of the Primal Current Sorcerers in Elden Ring, Seath's artificial scales growing out of his body are crystaline. That magic in transforming sorcerous biology into inorganic matter follows that same underlying design in Elden Ring with the biology that Marika & her shaman people had, which lead to Godrick Grafting, but also why the Dragons that prey upon the sorcerers gradually have their own bodies start to crystalize as well. Especially with the proliferation of the Glintstone-infused Lesser Dragons & the Moonblade-wielding Adula as late-game entites in the base game of Elden Ring, and the sideways icicle motif of the Nightreign title, I'd be exceptionally surprised if Darkeater Midir doesn't make an appearance with all of the darkness-laden themes that also wrap around into this same core motif from the few enemies that they've shown thus far given just how much that design closely matches to the setting in a parallel world of The Lands Between.
Aaaaaand that's enough of the tl;dr meandering for now.
Spiders have had a lot of themes throughout the Souls games, but the Crab fusion with the subject's head also having the moth feelers on the Cemetery Shades remines me particularly of Bloodborne with the Garden of Eyes whose head is a squishy Spider whose body is like a half-developed cocoon with butterfly wings. Those designs directly overlap with the Amygdala having glowing limbs like the Cemetery Shade's Crab has while the Amygala's Winter Lantern heads were used in Shadow of the Erdtree, and also links to how Mergo's Wet Nurse has the physical form of a headless Amygdala. The Amygdala's tail and fused body is a trait shared by Elden Ring's Pests with their bodies seemingly formed of interconnected parts, and a theme all about rot & rebirth with them having a hatchery in one of the catacombs of the Caelid Waypoint Ruins.
Since in Bloodborne, Patches is an Amyglada-worshipping Spider with a human head, I do hope that he's got some twisted referential appearance in Nightreign where he'll sabotage you somehow before running away or similar Patches-type reference amongst these arachnid types. As things started out with Bloodborne's more simple decapitation & reattaching heads to other bodies (which they also do with crows & dogs), Shadow of the Erdtree opened up on all this a bit more with the Pests by giving us the Spider-Scorpions & Romina, showing this same sort of multi-body fusion between insects being explicitly tied into the Scarlet Rot – and the Parasitic Spider is shown walking in a new Scarlet Rot area during the Nightreign trailer.
This all also comes together with the the Gaping Dragon in Dark Souls & the Fluorescent Flowers in Bloodborne, as the Gaping Dragon isn't just a regular dragon, but it's got a centaur-like extra torso with an additional set of limbs (4 wings, 4 arms, 2 legs), and a similarly multi-segmented body that's very similar body type to all of the 4-armed Pests in Elden Ring. The similarly centipede-like front body and the Pests having a conical snail shell on their heads is all also reminiscent of the Fluorescent Flower overlaps with the Gaping Dragon as well as using thread attacks akin to the Cemetery Shade, as well as having weapons in the Pest Glaive & Mantis Blade that hint at a ken of higher and unknowably alien intellect, which intersects with the Fluorescent Flower name overlapping to the Lumenwood themes that carried over from Bloodborne into Elden Ring that I mentioned when talking about theme overlaps between both games.
All of the Ancient Dragons in Elden Ring & Darkeater Midir from Dark Souls III have (4 wings, 2 arms & 2 legs), the humanoid Dragon God, Consumed King, Magma Wyrms, & Bayle the Dread (2 wings, 2 arms, 2 legs) as well as the more Draconic Kalameet, Ancient Dragon, Sinh, (also 2 wings, 2 arms, 2 legs), the Storm Drake that Nameless King rides (4 wing, 2 legs, no arms), or the Demons' Souls & Dark Souls early Drakes/Dragons, Dark Souls III's Ancient Wyverns and Elden Ring's scaleless Lesser Dragons (2 wings & 2 legs).
Seath the Scaleless has the pale slug-like mutant lower half that shows up in the inhabitants of the Fishing Village in Bloodborne, where those themes get associated to this sort of slimy eldritch appearance that's reminiscent of what the Elden Beast looks like in Elden Ring as it uses Radagon/Marika as a host. Those themes are all interconnected to plants & parasitism: Kos Parasite, Lumenwood, Erdtree, etc. and also have an intersection with designs like the Consumed King & Rom's body growing Scarlet Rot-like fungal flowers on them paired with a heavy overlap into elements of formlessness with things like the Consumed King's child Oscelotte in Dark Souls III & Mergo in Bloodborne being children who can't be seen.
Those are things are a part of the path that comes along with that sort of elevation of self and the loss of a Human Heart that Shadow of the Erdtree explores with an ancient dragon in human form literally named after a flower – Florissax, with the Dragon's Calorbloom flowers growing from the hearts of the deceased Dragon Communion practitioners. All the alien floral themes associated with Kin are a part of what the design of the Pests & Goddess of Rot represent in Elden Ring, just as much as the interconnected relationship between the Runes empowering the host that hosts them within their body, as it's a split between the will of the individual and the Rune as the will of a Greater intellect finding a host.
In juxtaposition to those are the Beast elements as their blood is undecaying and they're the unthinkingly loyal guardians of the Dragons in Farum Azula. Beasts and specifically Wolves are the Shadows of the Empyreans in a dark juxtaposition to the Lumenwood's light themes. Ragagon serves as a representation of attempting to balance Intelligence & Faith and so it's interesting that the first of the confirmed new bosses in Nightreign is a Cerberus Red Wolf of Radagon who can split apart or fuse together and help to carry those themes. They're represented in the elevation in being gifted 5 fingers instead of 4, whereas the Cosmic beings & Ancient dragons have 6 fingers to represent a different type of more highly elevated intellect, which we also see in Bloodborne on beings like Amygdala.
As those elements get more draconic, we start to see things like the Undead Beastmen who can breathe fire, but also there tends to be a lot of motifs of the human being consumed from within by that change, so things like the Magma Wyrms & Dragon God that have overtly human qualities get multiple rows of teeth in semi-separate jaws. Those have a similar overlap to a lot of how Prometheus portrays this sort of dichotomy between the Xenomorphs as Beasts that transform Humans into murderous monsters (which stand in juxtaposition to the pale Engineers & Androids as pale-blooded Artificial Kin, following a lot of the same designs that Bloodborne uses for the Pthumerians & Albinaurics).
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Those take on an even greater emphasis on those themes being interconnected that the series has only VERY lightly touched on when Beasts become parasitized and their heads start to become an auxiliary appendage, like Bloodborne's Loran Silverbeasts whose heads split, are capable of breathing flame with an ignition source from their head's twisted sideways jaws in the same way that the new Dragon in the Nightreign trailer does, and who have the Hateful Maggots burst out of their corpses unless they're burned. In Bloodborne, eventually those parasitized Beasts become something like the Bloodletting Beast which, just like the subjects of the Clocktower have their heads eventually lost as they're a vestigial limb at that point, and this is something that Sekiro also explored with the Guardian Ape & a number of other bosses also utilizing the Centipede motif. This theme of living again after being killed is why the Rune of Death breaks into the twin split centipede mark in Elden Ring, which is from a Japanese proverb where if you kill a centipede another one will show up to bite you, and the only way to avoid this is to burn them instead of crush them. (This is why D's twin takes his armor and shows up to kill Fia after he's murdered, and a number of other intertwined elements like Godwyn & Ranni's deaths).
- YouTube
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However, there is a possibility to get a culmination of ALL of those qualities where a Kin, Beast, & Great One ALL overlap where those Draconic facial qualities start to show through again since the Mind & Body are intertwined rather than being a puppeted host. The elemental nature of Fire that beasts & dragons breathe changes to Lightning – hence in Elden Ring, the Dragon Communion hearts forming "Calorblooms" meaning "heat" rather than the Ancient Dragons' Fulgurblooms meaning "lightning" and also getting into why Bayle's lightning is Fire Lightning in parallel to the Dragonkin Soldiers' Ice Lightning as they're both stages of being NEARLY fully draconic but not quite reaching that (especially as Placidusax as the Dragon Lord isn't a "Dragon type" enemy any longer, and has an incantation that requires only Faith and NOT Arcane – the element associated with Blood & physical transformation whereas Bayle's is purely Arcane). This triplicate balance was created but fully unused in Bloodborne as the Great One Beast – something that'd be REALLY neat to see actually completed & brought into Nightreign as a new boss given how it aligns to the underlying themes really well, and how similar it is to a more draconic version of the Red Wolf of Radagon.
- YouTube
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To bring things around to the other side – most of the Draconic elements in Elden Ring are all centered around the split between Faith & Arcane, but there is a very strong presence of draconic loyalty associated with Ranni & other Lunar themes, which go back to Dark Souls with the Moonlight Butterfly and how those themes intersect with the Moonlight Greatsword, as well as the twin helix designs of the Fingerslayer Blade, Godslayer Greatsword & Sacred Relic Sword (thanks to Evangelion's Lance of Longinus as the original god-slayer weapon design). This is likely interconnected to the emerging metamorphosis designs for the transformation in the Garden of Eyes in Bloodborne as well as the moth-like feelers from the Cemetery Shade's Crab having an overlap of Insight rather than Faith leading to changes, and things like the Vacuous Rom having those spider-like qualities but no mind to go along with it as the butterfly is a representation of the spirit of the deceased in Japan, so that type of metamorphosis being transcendental, and Ebrietas having a very similar physiology to Seeth the Scaleless starts to emphasize some of those splits between Sleep & Madness that's mainly represented by Intelligence in Elden Ring. Though there are a lot of different hot/cold binaries, the Glintstone elements are particularly prominent in being unique to that type of cold detachment from the physical form and puppetry like Ranni's own four-limbed doll has that is also heavily thematically tied into the elements of night & darkness that we see in the Cemetery Shades.
- YouTube
Смотрите любимые видео, слушайте любимые песни, загружайте собственные ролики и делитесь ими с друзьями, близкими и целым миром.
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Like the Glintstone grows from the bodies of the Primal Current Sorcerers in Elden Ring, Seath's artificial scales growing out of his body are crystaline. That magic in transforming sorcerous biology into inorganic matter follows that same underlying design in Elden Ring with the biology that Marika & her shaman people had, which lead to Godrick Grafting, but also why the Dragons that prey upon the sorcerers gradually have their own bodies start to crystalize as well. Especially with the proliferation of the Glintstone-infused Lesser Dragons & the Moonblade-wielding Adula as late-game entites in the base game of Elden Ring, and the sideways icicle motif of the Nightreign title, I'd be exceptionally surprised if Darkeater Midir doesn't make an appearance with all of the darkness-laden themes that also wrap around into this same core motif from the few enemies that they've shown thus far given just how much that design closely matches to the setting in a parallel world of The Lands Between.
Aaaaaand that's enough of the tl;dr meandering for now.
Insofar as the game itself:
Aside from just the "rule of cool" bosses, I think that bosses who have something really unique insofar as gameplay is concerned have a high probability to show up if they ALSO have something that has a good alignment of the underlying design rules that Elden Ring's setting uses. Given that we know that the core movesets of bosses are VERY often reused as assets in new From games, I'd also be really interested in how much of the other games' entities are not just ported but potentially even expanded upon from what it was in its source game.
The other gameplay element that's got me thinking a lot about the pacing and the high probability of the returning bosses being updated is that Elden Ring's gameplay has something VERY specific to it that isn't nearly as true of Souls, Sekiro, or Bloodborne which is how its bosses are paced. While the previous games had to give you room for things, and as a result the boss fights become a bit more of a dance, because you're always their only partner. Elden Ring REALLY gives you an overwhelming amount of tools to more effectively interrupt or direct the pace of the fight on your own terms (which ties into the core theme of becoming Elden Lord and being THE person who has to set that sort of tone for the lands over which you now preside), but ESPECIALLY in terms of Spirit Ashes. Shadow of the Erdtree putting more emphasis on them clearly designing boss fights around mechanics with summoned co-operators – especially with the final boss.
Nightreign being a Co-op ARPG that's either solo OR three-player very much focuses in around this element in particular, and the way in which the Cerberus-like Red Wolf of Radagon from the trailer is shown as a single boss, but then also splitting out into 3 separate targets shows that they're VERY focused on striking an intentional balance of an ebb & flow to this element of how the bigger combat encounters are designed. It's one of the things that I think is bound to be SUPER interesting about the game and how it plays.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST:
REGISTRATION FOR THE CLOSED NETWORK TEST OPENS JANUARY 10TH – US Site / EU Site / JP Site
The actual Closed Network Test will start in February, so we'll be getting a solid look at the game REALLY soon. As the network elements are going to be paramount for this to function, I'd also expect that this likely won't be the only one. (Unfortunately it's being limited to cross-generation play, and isn't supporting cross-platform, though maybe fingers crossed they might go for that at some point later depending on what sort of complexities they have to deal with in getting everything working well). Overall though, I expect that we'll be seeing a lot of feedback about the overall gameplay loop, since according to the few journalists who did play it, it took a few hours to really get the feel for it and something like this is gonna work FAR better than anything else they could do to get people to wrap their heads around it in ways that other trailers & showcases won't do as well.
X
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Done with Elden Ring, maybe for life I don't know. This was my final showdown against the last boss (after 120 painful tries):
SotE is possibly the best DLC out there, I guess only Bloodborne's The Old Hunters comes close. Miyazaki underselled it in interviews, it's much bigger than expected and it took me +100h to explore all the Realm of Shadow has to offer. There's enough content here to rival any full game releasing right now in the market (no hyperbole). But what matters the most is that it never falls short on excellency, on music, level design, variety, engaging fights and shining rewards.
The base game already filled the map with content between some empty spaces here and there, but the DLC really strikes the perfect balance by shortening the gaps even more and never missing the same excitement of exploring and finding out out how to reach that area or that one.
There's one aspect that deserves even more praise. I'm convinced SotE has the greatest art direction in gaming. A painting in digital form, it's so consistently good that it makes you stop just to appreciate each area, each color variation in the skies, how it contrasts to the monuments erected across the land, each armature, each design... I tried hard to choose my favorite shots from the +4000 screenshots taken, but this album is proof.
And I think in general that's the ideal way to define From games, as the story is hidden in the details you can't help to keep admiring, like a painting that only shows glimpses of its true meaning but the painter never reveals it fully to you. From mastered the less is more approach, it manages to convey powerful emotional with little. (I would say that's also key to its success, as it doesn't have long cutscenes or dialogues, it never requires the player not interested in poetic stories to engage with it, but if he wants to, the hole goes deep).
Messmer, as an example, just has a few lines but it is a fascinating character for how it is presented (and together with Igon and Thiollier, delivers the best VA in Sotc). Really liked the ambiguity between your compatriots, the journey we have with them.
And the music is stellar. You can feel the once-proud Belurat with its somber chorus, and Promised Consort takes my breath away entirely (the second half is incredible). I also specially like the combat theme in Enir-Ilim and the night theme of Scadu Altus and of course the gentle St.Trina`s theme.
The post-game PvP phase was a solid excuse to keep playing and test the weapons and magics that I collected. This time I played as a Pyromancer with a Faith-focused build and tried a bit of Arcane using the Ancient Meteoric Blade (using Dane`s Footwork as secondary weapon). Both approachs earned some success, on occasion I even got 70%-90% winrate, even with a pool of players that included highly experienced combatants and the insane build variety around.
For invasions, I found Radhan's Starcaller to be game-changer, managed to pull many players to the abyss by pulling them near edges. Miquella's Light makes you truly feel like a god, it has insane range and you can cast from super far (free aimed fireball at end as a bonus). Faith-builds are absolutely destroying. For duels, my usual strategy as pyromancer was baiting the duelist with a free-aimed fireball, and following up with Messmer's Orb. It's super effective.
On Nightreign, I would rather have it tied to the main story somehow, shedding light on some obscure area or character like the Gloam-Eyed Queen or Eochaid. For now I'm more interested on how they will iterate the new gameplay ideas into their next big title. Miyazaki himself said he's yet to make his ideal fantasy game, I wonder if he means by setting or gameplay? Whatever comes next, Elden Ring will forever be unforgettable masterpiece, an epic of biblical proportions, and one of the ultimate dark fantasy experiences.
Elden Ring 10
SotC 12
Last edited:
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Gods, just looking over that album really centers in on why I just can't get enough of going back to Elden Ring just to meander through places I've been countless times, because there's always some interesting little detail to look at and design consideration to a place that's exceptionally interesting. Even then, there are also the little memories that I made when I first emerged into those locations, and like when I initially wandered into the lower regions of Nokstella to see the artificial crystaline stars in the subterranean city before confronting the Dragonkin Soldier of Nokstella, the memories you make of those moments live in your mind as an intertwined part of the fabric of that artwork.
Put plainly, there's something about the experience of visiting their worlds that are well and truly uniquely magical.
Last but not least – The Elden Ring Official Artbook Vol 3 dropped on Christmas, so I'm VERY eagerly anticipating that hopefully shipping soon and being able to dive into all of the artwork in full detail beyond the tiny taste I got from the mini artbook that released with the game. Additionally, after 2 1/2 years of work, TorchTorch finally completed their Dark Moon Ring & opened them for preorder, and they've put in just as much insane meticulous attention to every little detail as they have with everything else Souls or Bloodborne related that they've done.
Being able to wrap up the collection of artbooks & things for the main game JUST as Nightreign is opening that up with the other Souls elements just makes me ridiculously glad to know that I'll have more development material to dive into some time in 2025/2026 depending on when the supplemental books get released.
X
Put plainly, there's something about the experience of visiting their worlds that are well and truly uniquely magical.
Even the times when I'm looking at it partially through a software development lens to find the most satisfying cracks in the experience (in a way that AnyAustin describes brilliantly in a video about GTAV power lines at 22:01), knowing where old pieces of story were reshaped and turned into a different form, it's a detail where the inherent layered incompleteness & development process leading to little inconsistencies actually make it feel MORE like a real historical location because actual history is fragmented and full of repurposed religion, design, & tradition that shifted them to accommodate itself and often left slightly odd amalgamations of tradition that only feel like part of the story – but every little journey into those details is utterly captivating. One of the things that I especially like the most about Shadow of the Erdtree is that that IS its story. There are details that explicitly state that traditions of the tower were taken and adapted into the beliefs of the people of the Erdtree.
It's one of the things that comes from Japanese syncretism of practices that makes it such a prominent part of design. It's probably most apparent in the world-building from the manga version of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, which had a very wide influence on fantasy worlds in Japanese told forms of Western Fantasy – but FromSoftware really does it with a depth & fidelity like no one else. In reading some of the works that influenced it in manga like Pygmalio, BERSERK, or Mushishi, or novel series like Tales from the Flat Earth by Lee Tanith (which I'm on book 4 of at the moment), there's a sense of the impact of that literary richness and mystery to all of them, where we're a bit like Mad Max in getting a snapshot of a piece of a broken world with a familiar echo, but in a unique form.
I think that the reason Miyazaki has yet to make his ideal fantasy game is that his understanding and sense of what an ideal fantasy game is has been continually evolving along with him, even if the core elements that underpin his ideas of those things remain consistent, he always has slightly different questions & existential struggles that he's attempting to portray using all the possible tools of mythology at his disposal that also intertwine with history. (One example is how the Fire Giant's design harkens to the Chinese mythological history where the Flame Emperor, was defeated by the Supreme Divinity (the Yellow Emperor). A servant of the Flame Emperor named Xingtian rose up in revenge and was decapitated, resulting only in him growing a face out of his torso and being consumed by that blind rage. Those same elements are echoed in the Fell God of the Fire Giants, only one of whom yet remains, and that Marika the Eternal wasn't able to destroy the Fell God, so she merely sealed it away.
Those are very different themes of fire than the Promethean elements of flame in Dark Souls which also intertwine to the themes of unified dreams in the Bonfire of Souls from BERSERK, but they're a continual exploration of the struggle of what a world looks like when it gets left behind. So, when Shadow of the Erdtree explores the Tokyo/Babylonian City of the Tower, Messemer's Flame as the obliterating hellfire that harkens back to Operating MEETINGHOUSE from the WWII Tokyo Firebombings being immortalized in the form of artificial giants in the form of Fire Golems, there's an echo between the interconnected Chinese, Japanese, & American historical relationships that forms these types of questions about how you grapple with being on both sides of that conflict. The answers are far removed from the Pure Black & White world affinities of Demon's Souls, but the underlying themes of Fire as a necessary catalyst for bringing about a natural cyclical downfall & rebirth have a different antithetical form in the Frenzied Flame where that decapitation and replacement of one's former self with a seething and destructive maw of vacuous burning hatred was something that came into form relatively late in Elden Ring's development.
Seeing the ways in which those themes of being told to "endure" a horrible suffering that literally never ends leading to Midra is a direct reflection of self-justified hatred that feeds on itself in an insatiable feedback loop to the ruin of everything drawn directly from the finale of Night's Master (the first of Tanith Lee's Tales of the Flat Earth series), with its opposite being a role that embodies the Satanic shadow of a Messianic figure who literally scatters his body to pieces to save the world that echoes many of the ways in which Miquella embodies something of great danger but in a way that's different from that threat, and reflect Marika as the more overtly Christ-like saviour... but when she gives in, it's the essence of the Fire Giant's shared lineage within her that emerges as the red-haired Radagon to fight you and try and mend that broken Golden Order that's been irreparably sundered.
One of the things in Shadow of the Erdtree that's made clear in all of the iconography throughout the Lands of Shadow is that, aside from the one of Marika & Messemer held in his private chamber – all of the statues of Queen Marika the Eternal are headless – just like the Lords of the Frenzied Flame. Even her own body at the end of the game is left as a headless shell – because she's no longer on the side of victory, but she's forced to endure the torture of everlasting rule as an inescapable curse leading to the same ultimate fate as the Fire Giants whose pain was embodied by a defeated ruler and the burning pain within her, and which is slowly tipping from that state of enduring helplessness eternally until it's just consumed by utter hatred & madness – which is why she made Hewg swear to craft a weapon capable of killing a god.
There is a disconnection from humanity that comes with the pursuit of eternity, and it's why Miquella's naïve innocence doesn't notice that as a cage. Not only that, but he doesn't understand the utter horror of how he's using Lord Mohg's body as a vessel to contain General Radahn's soul just to enable his own ascension to Godhood, and how even forcing everyone to love and endure those acts, it doesn't erase the suffering EVERYONE would experience from that. The narrative of Darriwil, Radahn, & Blaidd are all about how they cling to the last fragment of loyalty even as they're consumed by impossible circumstances, and so the burning red eyes of that berserk suffering takes on a totally different form to the burning Yellow when that last fragment of hope vanishes and they're left not just as a half-mad beast howling at the moon, but as an empty vessel being piloted by another lord in place of their own mind when that suffering reaches a breaking point – again, exactly what happens when the Fell God of the Fire Giants awakens within their chests, but also why the Trolls who betrayed the Giants to aid the people of the Erdtree suffer grievously from that, and have begun to succumb to madness of the Frenzied Flame after forsaking their own god.
Those same themes are echoed with the Dragonic storyline in Shadow of the Erdtree, where if consumed, Bayle's Heart threatens to one day take over your body and reform him in antithesis to how, having given up her Ancient Dragon form already to try and seek aid in defeating Bayle, once Dragon Priestess Florissax is freed from her permanent devotion to Dragonlord Placidusax, she gains a human heart and the ability to experience love for the first time ever – the opposite of what happens to those who fall to the addiction of Dragon Communion and become like Bayle in an attempt to seize power over everything, they ravenously and without care predate upon their own kind. While Miyazaki's series have often examined those themes in the form of Humanity & Draconic transformation, the Stone/Priestess Dragon Hearts being transformations that last until death reflect similar themes – but they always feel like there's a slightly different perspective to the underlying elements.
Even while details like the Ancient Dragons being living Gravel Stone while all Lesser Dragons are an amalgamation of various forms of beasts with feathers, claws, talons, and other elements of the Crucible in Elden Ring parallels the history of Seath the Scaleless betraying his draconic bretheren in Dark Souls, the elements of the fantasy are shifting in the ways that Miyazaki's underlying perspective of those stories are shifting, and how those ideas, while thematically consistent, present different versions of what fantasy looks like in a way that feels familiar, and has this underlying element of being a living picture that you can meander through or bury yourself into in literally ANY corner of the worlds and find things like this that not only show you how complete they are, but also in how I don't know that there will ever be something that IS Miyazaki's ideal fantasy game – in the best way possible.
It's the overall shape of those things in Elden Ring that makes me unbelievably interested in seeing what it looks like when that world is subjected to an alternate lens in Nightreign. There's a different director, but also a condensed narrative that intertwines all of those pieces into one place and lets us feel them all at once in a way that's strange & different to the previous experiences, while also being recognizably familiar. Most interestingly we're getting 8 characters who all have their own interconnected narrative elements which is a familiar but also radically different way of approaching the indirect storytelling in that world.
It's one of the things that comes from Japanese syncretism of practices that makes it such a prominent part of design. It's probably most apparent in the world-building from the manga version of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, which had a very wide influence on fantasy worlds in Japanese told forms of Western Fantasy – but FromSoftware really does it with a depth & fidelity like no one else. In reading some of the works that influenced it in manga like Pygmalio, BERSERK, or Mushishi, or novel series like Tales from the Flat Earth by Lee Tanith (which I'm on book 4 of at the moment), there's a sense of the impact of that literary richness and mystery to all of them, where we're a bit like Mad Max in getting a snapshot of a piece of a broken world with a familiar echo, but in a unique form.
I think that the reason Miyazaki has yet to make his ideal fantasy game is that his understanding and sense of what an ideal fantasy game is has been continually evolving along with him, even if the core elements that underpin his ideas of those things remain consistent, he always has slightly different questions & existential struggles that he's attempting to portray using all the possible tools of mythology at his disposal that also intertwine with history. (One example is how the Fire Giant's design harkens to the Chinese mythological history where the Flame Emperor, was defeated by the Supreme Divinity (the Yellow Emperor). A servant of the Flame Emperor named Xingtian rose up in revenge and was decapitated, resulting only in him growing a face out of his torso and being consumed by that blind rage. Those same elements are echoed in the Fell God of the Fire Giants, only one of whom yet remains, and that Marika the Eternal wasn't able to destroy the Fell God, so she merely sealed it away.
Those are very different themes of fire than the Promethean elements of flame in Dark Souls which also intertwine to the themes of unified dreams in the Bonfire of Souls from BERSERK, but they're a continual exploration of the struggle of what a world looks like when it gets left behind. So, when Shadow of the Erdtree explores the Tokyo/Babylonian City of the Tower, Messemer's Flame as the obliterating hellfire that harkens back to Operating MEETINGHOUSE from the WWII Tokyo Firebombings being immortalized in the form of artificial giants in the form of Fire Golems, there's an echo between the interconnected Chinese, Japanese, & American historical relationships that forms these types of questions about how you grapple with being on both sides of that conflict. The answers are far removed from the Pure Black & White world affinities of Demon's Souls, but the underlying themes of Fire as a necessary catalyst for bringing about a natural cyclical downfall & rebirth have a different antithetical form in the Frenzied Flame where that decapitation and replacement of one's former self with a seething and destructive maw of vacuous burning hatred was something that came into form relatively late in Elden Ring's development.
Seeing the ways in which those themes of being told to "endure" a horrible suffering that literally never ends leading to Midra is a direct reflection of self-justified hatred that feeds on itself in an insatiable feedback loop to the ruin of everything drawn directly from the finale of Night's Master (the first of Tanith Lee's Tales of the Flat Earth series), with its opposite being a role that embodies the Satanic shadow of a Messianic figure who literally scatters his body to pieces to save the world that echoes many of the ways in which Miquella embodies something of great danger but in a way that's different from that threat, and reflect Marika as the more overtly Christ-like saviour... but when she gives in, it's the essence of the Fire Giant's shared lineage within her that emerges as the red-haired Radagon to fight you and try and mend that broken Golden Order that's been irreparably sundered.
One of the things in Shadow of the Erdtree that's made clear in all of the iconography throughout the Lands of Shadow is that, aside from the one of Marika & Messemer held in his private chamber – all of the statues of Queen Marika the Eternal are headless – just like the Lords of the Frenzied Flame. Even her own body at the end of the game is left as a headless shell – because she's no longer on the side of victory, but she's forced to endure the torture of everlasting rule as an inescapable curse leading to the same ultimate fate as the Fire Giants whose pain was embodied by a defeated ruler and the burning pain within her, and which is slowly tipping from that state of enduring helplessness eternally until it's just consumed by utter hatred & madness – which is why she made Hewg swear to craft a weapon capable of killing a god.
There is a disconnection from humanity that comes with the pursuit of eternity, and it's why Miquella's naïve innocence doesn't notice that as a cage. Not only that, but he doesn't understand the utter horror of how he's using Lord Mohg's body as a vessel to contain General Radahn's soul just to enable his own ascension to Godhood, and how even forcing everyone to love and endure those acts, it doesn't erase the suffering EVERYONE would experience from that. The narrative of Darriwil, Radahn, & Blaidd are all about how they cling to the last fragment of loyalty even as they're consumed by impossible circumstances, and so the burning red eyes of that berserk suffering takes on a totally different form to the burning Yellow when that last fragment of hope vanishes and they're left not just as a half-mad beast howling at the moon, but as an empty vessel being piloted by another lord in place of their own mind when that suffering reaches a breaking point – again, exactly what happens when the Fell God of the Fire Giants awakens within their chests, but also why the Trolls who betrayed the Giants to aid the people of the Erdtree suffer grievously from that, and have begun to succumb to madness of the Frenzied Flame after forsaking their own god.
Those same themes are echoed with the Dragonic storyline in Shadow of the Erdtree, where if consumed, Bayle's Heart threatens to one day take over your body and reform him in antithesis to how, having given up her Ancient Dragon form already to try and seek aid in defeating Bayle, once Dragon Priestess Florissax is freed from her permanent devotion to Dragonlord Placidusax, she gains a human heart and the ability to experience love for the first time ever – the opposite of what happens to those who fall to the addiction of Dragon Communion and become like Bayle in an attempt to seize power over everything, they ravenously and without care predate upon their own kind. While Miyazaki's series have often examined those themes in the form of Humanity & Draconic transformation, the Stone/Priestess Dragon Hearts being transformations that last until death reflect similar themes – but they always feel like there's a slightly different perspective to the underlying elements.
Even while details like the Ancient Dragons being living Gravel Stone while all Lesser Dragons are an amalgamation of various forms of beasts with feathers, claws, talons, and other elements of the Crucible in Elden Ring parallels the history of Seath the Scaleless betraying his draconic bretheren in Dark Souls, the elements of the fantasy are shifting in the ways that Miyazaki's underlying perspective of those stories are shifting, and how those ideas, while thematically consistent, present different versions of what fantasy looks like in a way that feels familiar, and has this underlying element of being a living picture that you can meander through or bury yourself into in literally ANY corner of the worlds and find things like this that not only show you how complete they are, but also in how I don't know that there will ever be something that IS Miyazaki's ideal fantasy game – in the best way possible.
It's the overall shape of those things in Elden Ring that makes me unbelievably interested in seeing what it looks like when that world is subjected to an alternate lens in Nightreign. There's a different director, but also a condensed narrative that intertwines all of those pieces into one place and lets us feel them all at once in a way that's strange & different to the previous experiences, while also being recognizably familiar. Most interestingly we're getting 8 characters who all have their own interconnected narrative elements which is a familiar but also radically different way of approaching the indirect storytelling in that world.
Last but not least – The Elden Ring Official Artbook Vol 3 dropped on Christmas, so I'm VERY eagerly anticipating that hopefully shipping soon and being able to dive into all of the artwork in full detail beyond the tiny taste I got from the mini artbook that released with the game. Additionally, after 2 1/2 years of work, TorchTorch finally completed their Dark Moon Ring & opened them for preorder, and they've put in just as much insane meticulous attention to every little detail as they have with everything else Souls or Bloodborne related that they've done.
Being able to wrap up the collection of artbooks & things for the main game JUST as Nightreign is opening that up with the other Souls elements just makes me ridiculously glad to know that I'll have more development material to dive into some time in 2025/2026 depending on when the supplemental books get released.
X
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
@X-SOLDIER
your analyses are so full of references and concepts, just shows how much care goes on building up the world, its story and themes.
Actually, I have a few questions that remain after clearing the DLC!
Unrelated but the fan OST arrangements made by Rozen are fantastic:
your analyses are so full of references and concepts, just shows how much care goes on building up the world, its story and themes.
Actually, I have a few questions that remain after clearing the DLC!
- Why Miquella recruited the compatriots, just that they could clear path to Enir-ilim in his place? (since he disposed himself of his body and strenght, I wonder if he could have managed alone; or did he just wanted bodyguards to defend him against any potential threat (like you now, the player itself)?
- Do you think Radahn was charmed by Miquella? He didn't say a word; when Miquella made his vow, he was alone, like a child praying for something rather than two demigods making a pact. Miquella saw Radahn as a platonic ideal of strength after all, so this "vow" could be interpreted as just something he wished in his mind.
- What was the snake skin in Bonny Village? Thought we would face a Snake boss somewhere in the open, but that didn't go anywhere. It's such a random and unique thing to find in the environment. Do you think it could be linked to Messmer?
- Do you think Radahn was charmed by Miquella? He didn't say a word; when Miquella made his vow, he was alone, like a child praying for something rather than two demigods making a pact. Miquella saw Radahn as a platonic ideal of strength after all, so this "vow" could be interpreted as just something he wished in his mind.
- What was the snake skin in Bonny Village? Thought we would face a Snake boss somewhere in the open, but that didn't go anywhere. It's such a random and unique thing to find in the environment. Do you think it could be linked to Messmer?
Unrelated but the fan OST arrangements made by Rozen are fantastic:
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Thanks! It's fun to dive into all the work that goes into these games when you get to poke around more behind-the-scenes.
It feels like this is an airtight contingency plan.
Miquella forcibly recruited someone from absolutely every meaningful faction, such that no matter what the circumstances that lead to Radahn's & Mohg's deaths, they will be able to facilitate whatever he requires of them when those events come to pass. On top of that, Leda has no qualms whatsoever about slaughtering anyone who deviates from that path, so even as he is divesting himself of his powers, there's a means to hold those things together.
This also helps to paint a picture of just how DEEPLY pervasive Miquella's influence was within every group in the Lands Between during & after The Shattering. Redmane Freyja's helm for example, "Golden helm of Redmane Freyja, member of General Radahn's most distinguished knights. A hideous scarlet wound was once hewn into the center of her face. Later, Miquella gently put his lips to it and the unfading scar became the compass that Freyja would thereafter follow." The damage caused by an attack that he facilitated through Malenia against Radahn & the Redmane knights became the wound he healed to compel her loyalty.
This also basically crash-courses the player into understanding the deeply conflicting perspectives in trying to objectively assess information about Miquella & his motives, as this would also be the experience of anyone he didn't manage to sufficiently have direct influence over.
Personally, this is one of those things where I wish that there were some interconnected consequences & opportunities with Miquella's Needle when it comes to the relationships you have with them as that seems likely as an intended path, but it also creates a complication around post-game circumstances for some players being locked into something that would change the experience in a rather significant way which would work if it were all an interconnected experience, but is harder to maintain as DLC where some players get forced into a different route, and would need some arbitrary prerequisites.
Miquella forcibly recruited someone from absolutely every meaningful faction, such that no matter what the circumstances that lead to Radahn's & Mohg's deaths, they will be able to facilitate whatever he requires of them when those events come to pass. On top of that, Leda has no qualms whatsoever about slaughtering anyone who deviates from that path, so even as he is divesting himself of his powers, there's a means to hold those things together.
This also helps to paint a picture of just how DEEPLY pervasive Miquella's influence was within every group in the Lands Between during & after The Shattering. Redmane Freyja's helm for example, "Golden helm of Redmane Freyja, member of General Radahn's most distinguished knights. A hideous scarlet wound was once hewn into the center of her face. Later, Miquella gently put his lips to it and the unfading scar became the compass that Freyja would thereafter follow." The damage caused by an attack that he facilitated through Malenia against Radahn & the Redmane knights became the wound he healed to compel her loyalty.
This also basically crash-courses the player into understanding the deeply conflicting perspectives in trying to objectively assess information about Miquella & his motives, as this would also be the experience of anyone he didn't manage to sufficiently have direct influence over.
Personally, this is one of those things where I wish that there were some interconnected consequences & opportunities with Miquella's Needle when it comes to the relationships you have with them as that seems likely as an intended path, but it also creates a complication around post-game circumstances for some players being locked into something that would change the experience in a rather significant way which would work if it were all an interconnected experience, but is harder to maintain as DLC where some players get forced into a different route, and would need some arbitrary prerequisites.
Radahn's position is something that's contextually suggested in the story, but is something that I don't think was fully certain at all times, and also changed significantly during development depending on which elements were most emphasized about the story and who was in which role for the narrative.
First is that Malenia has always been portrayed as an extension of Miquella's will, even down to her title "Malenia, Blade of Miquella" showing that she is a weapon that is an extension of her brother's will, thanks to his charm. Despite being the strongest, her equipment CLEARLY indicates that her brother is far more: “My brother will keep his promise. He possesses the wisdom, the allure, of a god – he is the most fearsome Empyrean of all.”
This is where I'll mention that there is symbolic narrative at play here when it comes to the depiction of Malenia that pulls a bit from Der Ring des Nibelungen in the form of the Valkyrie Brunhilde who is borne of Odin's true will and after being rent asunder by betrayal (also dealing with incest vs. love) she brings about the death of the most beloved warrior, and she is left to slumber in an isolated mountain where a hero must overcome the ultimate trials to prove himself worthy to claim her. She's also heavily influenced by Jar-eel the Razoress, daughter of the Red Emperor from the mythos in RuneQuest (it's worth noting that the connections to Glorantha/Dragon's Pass with Jar-eel specifically go all the way back as far as Dark Souls, and that mythos also forms a LOT of the underlying elements of the Barbarians vs. the Lunar Empire that becomes the core of Leyndell vs. Caria in Elden Ring). She is THE quintessential warrior whose prowess is unmatched, but has elements of her character that are at the very core foundation of themes that the Souls games have been iterating upon in varying degrees of completion for a LONG time, which here are wrapped around conflicted self-destructive purpose in the impossibility of doing as she is commanded to while also aligning the truth in her & Odin's heart, and also similarly represented in Miquella's self-conflicted nature with St. Trina being a parallel to Radagon/Marika in the same position.
(Note: I'm still going through the whole of Der Ring des Nibelungen as a part of my core research, so I can't expand TOO much on what I know and how it connects beyond the parts in "Die Walküre" aside from just the summaries, as I'm currently going through "Siegfried" at the moment still and haven't gotten to "Götterdämmerung" yet, but as a whole that's a BIG component to a lot of Japanese adaptations of Western fantasy (thanks to Wagner influence during WWII Germany likely being a heavy component of early cross-cultural influence). Additionally, I'm not directly familiar with the RuneQuest mythology, and this specifically was borne out of some of my own research specific to Elden Ring that got into early influence in Japanese adaptations of Western Fantasy when I was looking at things aside from D&D & LotR that took hold there and help shape the core of that mythological approach a bit differently than ones in the West. While that's on my list of things to dive into in proper detail, I don't have much exposure to it aside from those links and a few other miscellaneous articles at the moment).
So, the next element to look at is Millicent's questline – Millicent can use the Waterfowl attack even when you first encounter her as an invader. As soon as Millicent is given the Golden Needle, she begins following the same exact path that her mother Malenia took. She even gets the same prosthetic arm that her mother used and knows her skill with a blade, and is pulled through compulsion to the Haligtree. From Gowry we learn even more context:
Gowry, "Then you might like to learn something of the history of Malenia, Goddess of Scarlet Rot. Queen Marika and her King Consort Radagon were blessed with twin demigods, and Malenia was one of them. She was born an Empyrean, carrying the Scarlet Rot. An Empyrean... is no mere demigod. In the Age of the Elden Ring, and Queen Marika, the precious Empyrean was born. A new god to forge a new Order. Since Malenia fought Radahn, and the great scarlet flower blossomed in Aeonia, I have dedicated myself to her. And to the resplendence of the Order of Rot. The cycle of decay & rebirth."
When Millicent finally reaches the Haligtree she trusts you enough not just to talk about where she's headed and to aid you, but also imparts the information specifically about what her plan is in heading there, which opens up more dialogue from Gowry as well that provides more context.
Millicent, "Again we meet. I can only surmise our purposes are aligned. In which case, allow me to explain myself. I am of Malenia's blood. But in what capacity I know not. I could be sister, daughter, or an offshoot... Whatever the case though, I am certain of a kinship between us... There is something I must return to Malenia. The will that was once her own. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the Scarlet Rot. The pride she abandoned to meet Radahn's measure."
Gowry, "She is to meet them very soon, her sisters. And when she does, she'll be defeated, surely, and begin to flower. Which is why... If you happen to be present for the girl's fight with her sisters, I ask that you side with the sisters and kill Millicent. It must be done by your hand, no other. Millicent trusts you, rather deeply in fact. Sever that trust. Nurtured by betrayal, her bud will flower most vividly. When Malenia ascends to godhood, Millicent too shall be reborn. As a Scarlet Valkyrie. You can't tell me that you don't wish to see it. The superior bud that is Millicent, becoming the finest of flowers? I beg of you, kill her. With your own two hands."
This contextualizes what the flowering of the Scarlet Aeonia represents not JUST for her, but for Malenia as well. Miquella's Needle in Malenia's flesh is something that Millicent wants to remove from Malenia to give her back herself for the same reason that if you align with her against Gowry's-Golden-Needle-driven manipulation, Millicent removes the Golden Needle from herself, rather than blooming into a horrible Scarlet Aeonia – something that is a horrifying fate that she will actively decry by saying,
Millicent, "But this is where things end. I pause to even tell you, but... I took out the needle myself. Tell whoever put you up to this. That if I am to flower into something other than myself, I would rather rot into nothingness as I am. Please. let me pass alone. The Scarlet Rot writhes now, worse than ever. Soon, I won't be more than a mound of flesh. Curse-laden. Untouchable. I wouldn't want such a thing to bring you harm."
When you return, you'll find that she dies naturally. This is different from what happens if you betray her. As she's dying she'll say,
Millicent, "Ahh, how could you... Is this your true heart? Was I... was it all... for this?"
The line, "Is this your true heart?" is especially important to consider in the context that Miquella steals and manipulates the hearts of others for his own end, but also that Millicent's Prosthesis states, "The despair of sweet betrayal transformed Millicent from a mere bud into a magnificent flower. And one day, she will be reborn – as a beautiful Scarlet Valkyrie."
This is all emphasizing that the transformation into the Scarlet Bloom is triggered by a sense of betrayal whilst ALSO under the control of another individual, rather than operating from one's own free will.
When it comes to the conflict itself, the Sword Monuments that detail the battles in the Lands Between touch on this conflict in brief, with the one in Liurnia reading, "This marks Malenia's southward march. The Blade of Miquella and her Cleanrot Knights. Grant her wings never to be clipped." followed by the two in Caelid stating, "The Battle of Aeonia. Radahn and Malenia locked in stalemate. Then, the scarlet rot blooms." followed by "The Starscourge Conflict. Radahn alone holds Sellia secure. And stands tall, to shatter the stars."
So, we know that Malenia was sent down to confront Radahn directly. This would suggest that there is an inherent split between the two. Additionally, there is the detail that the lands that belong to the Carians and the Lunar royal lineage & those of Leyndell & the Erdtree are STILL separate territories. If you look at the Map of the Lands Between, you'll see that all the territory of Leyndell is bordered in Brown – whereas the lands that belong to the Carian Lunar family, Liurnia & Caelid, are STILL bordered in GREEN. (This also holds true in the DLC, as the Carians hold no territory in the Lands of Shadow).
This is important because the Haligtree itself is explicitly NOT a bordered territory. The who concept of the Unalloyed Gold is very heavily contingent upon a separation from the Golden Order, and Miquella's entire dynasty was designed to re-integrate with the Carians, a bond that Radagon's divorce had severed, and provides a lot of context into the Great Rune of the Unborn being the form of Miquella's Rune, and her Phase 2 transition being, "Ahh, my beloved... Have no fear, I will hold thee. Patience. Ye will be countless born, forever and ever." This aligns with Rennala being entranced in a perpetual dream and dedicated to the art of... Rebirth – the same fundamental goal of the Order of Rot that's manipulating Malenia, but the form which takes the way that Miquella is constantly reborn as an unblossomed bud that can never bloom on his own in a state of perpetual youth in juxtaposition to his sister. He is always in a between state and that power was left to her by Lord Radagon in the form of the Ember Egg. It's the only Great Rune that's always active without any link to a Divine Tower, because Miquella is in both states.
Sorcery explicitly protects against the Madness & Sleep statuses, and the fact that Ranni, Rogier, & Rennala are all cast into a slumber, and that Miquella's current state within his cocoon is described by Sir Gideon as being "asleep" reinforce the elements with St. Trina and the concept of Death & Rebirth being aligned to dreams the way that Bloodborne does with the "Awaken Above Ground" at tombstones being your method of travel, matching to Rennala's own quote about rebirth immediately after her battle, "Where did ye flee, my sweetings? Come out from whence ye hide. There are books and light aplenty. Dither not; come out say I! Or will ye be gravestones? To be better born anew?"
This overlaps to the fact that the Villiage of the Albinaurics is awash in poison, and the Crystal Caverns directly below Raya Lucaria Academy is the location of the Lake of Rot. As per the Poison Armament incantation that you get from the Scarab outside the Swamp of Aeonia, "Those who dwell within poison know rot all too well. The death that begets life, that comes to all equally. That is to say: it is the cycle of rebirth put into practice." Matching to how the Meteoric Ore Blade is found in the Caelid Waypoint Ruins where the tombs are a festering mass of juvenile Pests spawning from the opened tombs - Gowry himself secretly hiding in the guise of a human but possessing the body of one of the Pests. resembling the way that the Pests are also all spawning from cocoons around the Graveyard at the base of the Haligtree, as well as worshipping in the Lake of Rot below Raya Lucaria Academy.
This is where it's important to dig into the elements of how this all informs Malenia's path & history before getting deeper into the interconnected elements with the Carians.
First is worth noting that the core element of Malenia & her mentor come from the same place as Zorayas, D, Miquella, and a number of the other elements in the base game & Shadow of the Erdtree – the novel Night's Master by Tanith Lee. In that book, there are a duo known as Kazir the blind master and Ferazin the Flower-Born. His song rescues her and when she is tricked into death, he tends her grave for a year, watering it and eventually watering it with his own tears until she regrows from her grave. (The Ghost Glovewarts in Elden Ring also have a parallel to that symbolism of rebirth). In the narrative itself, the two of them become somewhat the subject of their own legends like that he slew a powerful serpent, when in reality it died of age & sorrow and he was protecting the charm that brought about that cycle of destruction & despair, they're set up in a way that that's indirectly referred back to the way that the Blind Swordsman is in Elden Ring in some later novels
(Note: I am still reading the Tales of a Flat Earth series and am mid-way through the 4th of the 5 books, so there is some context here that's potentially a bit incomplete in my ability to expand upon the shared mythology as while their story is VERY self-contained in Night's Master, the two are mentioned a few times since as legendary figures, so I'm not sure if there are any other elements of that which will eventually open up beyond that or provide echoes back to those characters at a later point in that mythology. And yes, I do jump through multiple series at once rather unevenly at times, but especially in this case as Tales of a Flat Earth are written narrative whereas Der Ring das Nibelungen is an operatic play that means that consuming both of them takes a very different type of focus).
The Prosthesis-Wearer Heirloom that you get at the start of Gowry's Quest states, "Though born into the accursed rot, when the young girl encountered her mentor and his flowing blade, she gained wings of unparalleled strength." Her mentor is the Blind Swordsman who we know of from the Blue Dancer Charm, "The dancer in blue represents a fairy, who in legend bestowed a flowing sword upon a blind swordsman. Blade in hand, the swordsman sealed away an ancient god — a god that was Rot itself." and this, in turn reflects upon the relic enshrined at the Lake of Rot – the Scorpion Stinger, "Dagger fashioned from a great scorpion's tail, glistening with scarlet rot. A ceremonial tool used by heretics, crafted from the relic of a sealed outer god."
All of these are design elements which are amalgamated into a reconstituted form in Romina, Saint of the Bud.
Her Rotten Butterflies only trigger Scarlet Rot when they stop moving, and the incantation states, "Summons a myriad of butterflies while performing a gentle twirl. The butterflies break apart on contact, scattering rot and setting off a chain reaction. The scarlet butterflies are as the Goddess of Rot's wings. Bereft of a master, they were soothed by Romina, who reached out to them." focusing on that sense of abandonment, while her Poleblade has the same floating movement that Malenia does and emphasizes its symbolism, "Weapon of Romina, Saint of the Bud. A scarlet glaive with a dangling bud-like blade. Attacks cause buildup of rot. Once, in the crumbling, burning church, Romina held the bud in speechless silence. That bud would become her blade."
Not only is her body that of a butterfly-winged fairy & a flower petals & seeds fused with a centipede & scorpion, but the asset for the thorn-encircled stinger is even called a "Needle" which is the other crucial element, even having that form in the Ash of War, The Poison Flower Blooms Twice, which causes a recipient of Poison/Rot to detonate in a damage burst like Frostbite/Bleed, emphasizing the way in which that blooming occurs.
Romina's form of flowering rebirth is only possible after fire burns her church and opens the buds, and this is the same visual language that's used for the Erdtree supposedly never having seeds, and the various other reasons why it can't die, but why it explicitly needs to be burned for a new Elden Lord to ascend, as the Full Bloom forms of the Erdtree Guardians are more vulnerable to fire but receive more healing from the Erdtree's sap via the Flask of Tears as that's the form of the god which they're preying upon, but the similarly designed Curseblade Masks reduce the healing Flask's effectiveness as they're feeding on injuring themselves in an attempt to rise to godhood. This contextualizes Malenia's Great Rune and her relationship to the Haligtree, where the reduction of the healing flasks is offset by her sustainance from feeding on combat with others.
This is because her master the Blind Swordsman developed the guard-countering technique as per the Curved Sword Talisman, "It is said that a blind swordsman was the originator of this technique — the art of allowing one's opponent to strike so as to leave them vulnerable to a well-timed reply." This allows Malenia who is also blind to be able to still be effective in combat. The Flowing-Curved Sword which is being taken in a coffin to Ordina Liturgical Town (base of the Black Knives & entrance to the Haligtree) offers more, "Legends speak of a master of the sword garbed in blue, and his curved blade that was patterned after flowing water. Strong attack unleashes a series of strikes akin to a dance, offering a glimpse into the legend." This contextualizes the hovering, flowing movement that Malenia, Millicent, & the Black Knife Assassins all use.
Blue Silver is a metal borne of the same mother as the Albinaurics themselves, hence it being worn by the archers there, and also being the color of the armor of the Black Knife Assassins both in that same place. It provides protection against both magic & frost – both of the elements connected to Ranni's character, but in direct juxtaposition to the underlying theme that defines the Barbarians who also follow the same creed where their Blue Cloth symbolizes that flowing as the means by which Rot is prevented from victory, "Cowl of a nomadic warrior. The blue color of its fabric symbolizes brisk waters, as fluid and flowing as the sword in the hand of its wearer. Just as still waters turn foul, stagnation leads to decay. Warriors must remain ever-drifting." and is the underlying creed of Nepheli Loux becoming the rightful heir to Stormvale by defeating Godrick, Gideon, & Godfrey with you and refusing to allow the stagnant winds to take hold – especially as she sees the injustices of the Village of the Albinaurics which further interconnect these themes to Malenia and also outside of her.
In Ranni's case, that cold magic has to be made pliant through love & human connection to YOU as the player willingly being her Consort Eternal as she ascends to godhood and presides over the Age of Stars. This is in a reflected juxtaposition to the relationship that Miquella & Radahn have, which is an embodiment of the mirrored reverse of those things. This HEAVILY suggests that Radahn didn't agree to any form of that union, but that this was instead the result of Miquella's continued coercion & vision like the Miquella's Knight Sword removing glintstone & replacing it with Amber similarly to how Radagon gave the Amber egg with that rune to Rennala, "Sword forged by servants of Miquella of the Haligtree, with a design modeled after those carried by Carian knights. Instead of glintstone however, amber from the Haligtree is embedded in the blade. A sumptuous piece, yet it has never been offered to any knight — an ill-starred sword with no master."
An ill-starred dynasty looking to Radahn to control the stars FOR him.
The level of interconnection there being changed between some elements in the release version to what they were in 1.0 that make the differences more apparent and provide more context.
Blue Silver & the Albinaurics:
• Release version: "Chainmail armor crafted with blue silver. Worn by the wolf-riding Albinauric archers. Blue silver is a metal born from the same mother as the archers themselves, and provides protection from magic and frost."
• 1.0 Version: "Armor worn by females of the artificial lifeforms known as Children of Silver. Formed of the same silver from which these beings
are birthed, this is the only material that doesn't irritate their skin. These maids constructed in Raya Lucaria headed to the Paling Tower, to enter Miquella's service."
Loretta:
• Release Version: "Silver helm of Loretta, a knight who served Miquella's Haligtree. Loretta was once a royal Carian knight, and her lapis-lazuli blue cape is the emblem of the knightly pride that continues to guide her. Loretta, once a royal Carian knight, went on a journey in search of a haven for Albinaurics, and determined that the Haligtree was their best chance for eventual salvation."
• 1.0 Version: "Silver armor of the Arbor Sentinels who serve the sacred tree of Miquella, the Scion Empyrean. Hailing from Raya Lucaria, these enchanted knights once belonged to the Carian royal family, but were later gifted to Miquella, recipient of the Vision, by King Consort Radagon. The lapis blue trimmings reveal these origins."
Additionally there's the never-implemented Abundance Twinblade: "Twinblade that contain the power of the Rune of Abundance. The holy power within the blade can call upon part of Miquella's own strength." as well as the Abindance & Decay Twinblade: "Twinblade symbolizing twins Miquella and Malenia. Miquella and his sister were born from an inseparable fate. The blades contain the Runes of both Abundance and Decay." showing that there was an early conceptualization of Miquella's Rune that eventually changed.
This was implemented as the Legendary armament of the Tower, Euporia in Shadow of the Erdtree, took it in a different direction more in line with Godwyn the Golden, "Twinblade symbolizing abundance. The secret treasure of the tower. Though the blades, fashioned from golden shoots, are largely wilted and darkened, their luster can be restored by dealing damage to foes. However, damage dealt to Those Who Live in Death will have no such effect." which reflects that back in 1.0, all the Knights at the Haligtree have armor which states, "<armor piece> used by soldiers/knights of Miquella, the Golden Twin" showing that those themes, and how they connected to Godwyn in the main game as well as Shadow of the Erdtree are heavily in flux in how that relationship & Radahn's aren't really fully clarified at various points in the narrative, and remain in flux during a lot of development as those themes are shifted around and redefined.
The 1.0 version of the Haligtree is also the only location where the Oracles appear (as there are none in Leyndell) and the Bubble attacks that they utilize are all the same Glintstone Blue as those of the Claymen hinting at that shared origin, before they were altered in the release version to be Golden like the incantation, and starting to further shift some more of those elements again. (Hence the symbolism of The Dark Moon of Ranni & Eclipsed Sun of Godwyn as the two reflections of one another shifting more towards Ranni & Miquella).
There's also the detail that Radahn was still referred to as the "God of War" in 1.0, whereas Malenia's role was that of the "Red Queen" as per the Cleanrot Knight Equipment:
• Release Version: "Armor of the Cleanrot Knights, celebrated for their undefeated campaign in the Shattering. The Cleanrot Knights vowed to fight alongside Malenia, despite the inevitable, if gradual, putrefaction of their flesh. Their acceptance of their fate made these battles the fiercest of all."
• 1.0 Version: "Armor of a Wing Knight, honorbound to Malenia, the Red Queen. These knights, considered the strongest in the Shattering, descended upon General Radahn's army in an almighty battle, continuing to fight even as their bodies came apart. Only after their work was done did they allow themselves to succumb. Still plagued by the fungal rot deployed in that battle, the armor itself is decaying."
This really puts the two of them as THE ultimates of their respective factions vying for control post-Shattering. Even despite that, Malenia's equipment all focuses on herself as being a warrior and being relentless & rotten, whereas Radahn's focuses on him using his power for & out of kindness. Beyond the well-known example of the Remembrance of the Starscourge giving context to Radahn's relationship with his steed Leonard, "The Red Lion General wielded gravitational powers which he learned in Sellia during his younger days. All so he would never have to abandon his beloved but scrawny steed." There is also the altered lore between the Release Version & 1.0 that was noteworthy in establishing a similar element of his character even back at an earlier point.
The Longtail Cat Talisman in 1.0:
"A brooch depicting a long-tailed cat, known to be the beloved pet of General Radahn. Reduces fall damage. This black cat was known to have enjoyed jumping down from great heights; it would leap from the great bell-tower of Raya Lucaria as a kitten, and once fully grown, from the great heavenward roots that twisted through the Erdtree Capital skies."
The Longtail Cat Talisman in the Release Version:
"A brooch depicting Lacrima, the long-tailed cat. Grants immunity to fall damage, but does not prevent death from a high fall. Lacrima features in the fables of Raya Lucaria, in which she is described as a faerie cat who was fond of playing in the great bell tower."
Even while that's removed from the release version, the sense of who Radahn was, and that he loved the things about his heritage that even Radagon hesitated to embrace like the name "Redmanes" focuses on his lineage to the Giants, in addition to his leonine royal position. That kindness and acceptance are a core element to his character that make the nature of how he would respond to Miquella's request an inherently difficult one to answer, which is likely why we don't get an verbal acknowledgment one way or another. Moreso than ANY of that is that the moniker, "Miquella the Kind" that is used throughout Shadow of the Erdtree is used to emphasize that his kindness is anything but truth, which is in absolute antithesis to everything about Radahn's portrayal.
This brings things to the Carian & Leyndell unification which takes two forms – Ranni & the Elden Lord VS. Radahn & Miquella.
Radahn's choice seems fairly well defined now as in opposition given that he not ONLY didn't guide the stars to Miquella's favor – he arrested their movement completely to prevent his fate from being manipulated by ANYONE – which is about the ONLY possible way that Miquella would have been stopped, and also why he remained frozen in slumber during the entirety of the main game's campaign. He maintained this even as his mind rotted away and everything else aside from his kindness and protective inclination towards Leonard was erased from him, which reinforces the same thing that happens with Blaidd later on. That protective nature he clung to is in opposition to Miquella's use of him, rather than in alignment to it.
This also builds into how the Young Lion's Helm includes the quote from Malenia that she whispers to Radahn when she's fighting him in Caelid, "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort." JUST before she blooms into the flower that obliterates Caelid and destroys Radahn's mind with Rot that reduces him to a crazed beast left clinging to the final vestiges of his humanity... and STILL keeping the stars firmly locked in their places. That Malenia's Scarlet Bloom could only have been triggered by an experience of Betrayal & Manipulation in equal parts at the delivery of this line reflects on Miquella's defiance towards Radahn's will, and using Malenia as a tool to obtain something even greater than herself for her brother.
This is something that you can actually see her say to him during the VERY first story cinematic narrated by Ranni, although we don't know if that was always what was planned as her line, it's fairly clear that there's a narrative here that's meant to represent that same elements as Gowry & Millicent's narrative. Malenia's death at Radahn's hand was Radahn's defiance against Miquella's plan which was seen as a betrayal. Rather than uniting the strongest of the Erdtree & Moon under The Shattering, it was keeping them separated.
Essentially, it seems as though Ranni's path has always been the sole path which is meant to show the Carians having agency, rather than Leyndell. Radahn's arresting of the stars froze her own future as well as his fate, which is what leads your path to need to bring an end to her brother's story, which aligns to the wishes of both Blaidd & Jerren.
When the topic of bringing Radahn back comes about Redmane Freyja explicitly mentions that Jerren would be opposed to the idea, and in him hunting down Sellen amongst other things dealing with preventing the sorcerous reconstitution of an individual into another's body also being thematically intertwined into the relationship that she had with Pidia/Seluvis.
If you attempt to attack & betray Ranni – she & Seluvis both vanish & Blaidd becomes hostile, indicating that the nature by which she was able to circumvent a natural death and attach herself to a puppet was likely connected to Seluvis' knowledge out of necessity, especially as we know that Seluvis is simply the puppet persona of Pidia, and he's previously attempted to gain some advantage over Ranni using an assassin disguised as Blaidd whose mask he find outside of his tower. Thus once Ranni gets the Finger Slayer Blade and is able to invert that relationship, Pidia's puppets turn on him and kill him, rendering Seluvis inert and enabling Ranni her freedom to act as she wishes.
During her slumber, Seluvis is also responsible for taking the Amber Starlight Shard that you take from in front of Miquella's Statue in Leyndell and turning it into a potion that he attempts to use to gain control of Ranni as a puppet before she can free herself from that bond. Doing this will have her banish you, and even instantly kill you if you attempt to continually interact with her after that betrayal. This is in a stark juxtaposition to giving a sleeping potion to Florissax, the Dragon Priestess who is forced to sacrifice her sleep to Lord Placidusax every night. If you give her Thiollier's Concoction while she sleeps, defeating Bayle & confessing this to her results in her pledging herself to you in exchange for that transgression, becoming the only Spirit Ash who speaks to you directly as her noble Lord. (In the second case, Florissax succumbing to that slumber is something she still sees as HER transgression, and is much closer to the Arthur, Guinevere, Lancelot dynamic).
Again, the same actions taken from a position where you have a different understanding of the agency of the relationship between both parties changes the nature of what you're doing for/to them. Again, this is in a VERY purposeful juxtaposition to the same dynamic between Gowry & Millicent as it's testing things about who you truly are. Is the woman you're helping simply an opportunity to acquire the most powerful tool that exists so that you can manipulate it for your own power – or are you considering specifically what SHE desires in addition to your own wants, as well as whether or not she's free enough to understand her own wishes. In Florissax's case her Incantation indicates she's never known love, and thus her attachment to Placidusax is one of absolute obligation where she has no choice, just like how the Needle removes the agency that Millicent has over herself even as it suppresses the Scarlet Rot to shape her into a tool as a means to an end, whereas Ranni's mission is about extracting herself from various forces that prevent her from having agency over herself.
This is the core of the decision for why you have to allow Melina to sacrifice herself as a kindling maiden, and not try to save her against her own will by becoming the kindling yourself via becoming host to the Three Fingers. You have to understand when denying someone's wishes is a path to heroism vs. when it is a path to damnation & destruction. The same is true for why you don't allow Zorayas to forget the horrible truth of the nature of her birth, nor do you spare her the pain by killing her. You defeat Rykard & free her from the system which would persecute or manipulate her regardless of her own agency.
(Note: Zorayas' story in Night's Master is an extremely painful story about her as the heir to a kingdom and the pain of self-loathing that is a result of the abuse & rape that she endured as a child leaving her physically deformed with a hunched stance nearly identical to Zorayas' human form in Elden Ring. Even as she becomes an unstoppably powerful queen, her inability to ever feel truly loved by anyone is eventually what leads to her own self-destruction, and thus the path where you kill Rykard & spare her to receive her letter in Elden Ring is specifically crafted such that you give this version of her story a way to experience something that is otherwise impossible for her to have obtained. This sort of meta narrative understanding for why that narrative has the focus that it does helps a lot in understanding the particulars of the pitfalls & other confrontations presented in Elden Ring).
This is to conclude that Radahn is placed into a position where his kindness & position put him into a place where despite his authority, there really isn't a good way for him to object to Miquella outright other than winning the scramble for power during The Shattering – which he did. The E3 2019 Announcement trailer also shows us more of that battle than we see anywhere else – Radahn in the aftermath of the attack, his body glowing and burning with gold in a field surrounded by lifeless corpses.
I can think of few moments that stand out more clearly as Radahn's answer to Miquella being "No." that stand more starkly than this, despite it being something that we never see in the game, and it being something that was even pre-Closed Beta Test, the core nature of Radahn seems as though it has always been designed to ensure that it evokes a sense of sympathy and justice in death, so that in Shadow of the Erdtree, the very idea of Radahn being forced back to life as a consort vessel for another's ascension to godhood feels like the abuse of power that it is, – even for one whose own power seems unmatched, it's still possible for him to be the victim of a power dynamic just as much as any of the demigods, or even Queen Marika herself.
First is that Malenia has always been portrayed as an extension of Miquella's will, even down to her title "Malenia, Blade of Miquella" showing that she is a weapon that is an extension of her brother's will, thanks to his charm. Despite being the strongest, her equipment CLEARLY indicates that her brother is far more: “My brother will keep his promise. He possesses the wisdom, the allure, of a god – he is the most fearsome Empyrean of all.”
This is where I'll mention that there is symbolic narrative at play here when it comes to the depiction of Malenia that pulls a bit from Der Ring des Nibelungen in the form of the Valkyrie Brunhilde who is borne of Odin's true will and after being rent asunder by betrayal (also dealing with incest vs. love) she brings about the death of the most beloved warrior, and she is left to slumber in an isolated mountain where a hero must overcome the ultimate trials to prove himself worthy to claim her. She's also heavily influenced by Jar-eel the Razoress, daughter of the Red Emperor from the mythos in RuneQuest (it's worth noting that the connections to Glorantha/Dragon's Pass with Jar-eel specifically go all the way back as far as Dark Souls, and that mythos also forms a LOT of the underlying elements of the Barbarians vs. the Lunar Empire that becomes the core of Leyndell vs. Caria in Elden Ring). She is THE quintessential warrior whose prowess is unmatched, but has elements of her character that are at the very core foundation of themes that the Souls games have been iterating upon in varying degrees of completion for a LONG time, which here are wrapped around conflicted self-destructive purpose in the impossibility of doing as she is commanded to while also aligning the truth in her & Odin's heart, and also similarly represented in Miquella's self-conflicted nature with St. Trina being a parallel to Radagon/Marika in the same position.
(Note: I'm still going through the whole of Der Ring des Nibelungen as a part of my core research, so I can't expand TOO much on what I know and how it connects beyond the parts in "Die Walküre" aside from just the summaries, as I'm currently going through "Siegfried" at the moment still and haven't gotten to "Götterdämmerung" yet, but as a whole that's a BIG component to a lot of Japanese adaptations of Western fantasy (thanks to Wagner influence during WWII Germany likely being a heavy component of early cross-cultural influence). Additionally, I'm not directly familiar with the RuneQuest mythology, and this specifically was borne out of some of my own research specific to Elden Ring that got into early influence in Japanese adaptations of Western Fantasy when I was looking at things aside from D&D & LotR that took hold there and help shape the core of that mythological approach a bit differently than ones in the West. While that's on my list of things to dive into in proper detail, I don't have much exposure to it aside from those links and a few other miscellaneous articles at the moment).
So, the next element to look at is Millicent's questline – Millicent can use the Waterfowl attack even when you first encounter her as an invader. As soon as Millicent is given the Golden Needle, she begins following the same exact path that her mother Malenia took. She even gets the same prosthetic arm that her mother used and knows her skill with a blade, and is pulled through compulsion to the Haligtree. From Gowry we learn even more context:
Gowry, "Then you might like to learn something of the history of Malenia, Goddess of Scarlet Rot. Queen Marika and her King Consort Radagon were blessed with twin demigods, and Malenia was one of them. She was born an Empyrean, carrying the Scarlet Rot. An Empyrean... is no mere demigod. In the Age of the Elden Ring, and Queen Marika, the precious Empyrean was born. A new god to forge a new Order. Since Malenia fought Radahn, and the great scarlet flower blossomed in Aeonia, I have dedicated myself to her. And to the resplendence of the Order of Rot. The cycle of decay & rebirth."
When Millicent finally reaches the Haligtree she trusts you enough not just to talk about where she's headed and to aid you, but also imparts the information specifically about what her plan is in heading there, which opens up more dialogue from Gowry as well that provides more context.
Millicent, "Again we meet. I can only surmise our purposes are aligned. In which case, allow me to explain myself. I am of Malenia's blood. But in what capacity I know not. I could be sister, daughter, or an offshoot... Whatever the case though, I am certain of a kinship between us... There is something I must return to Malenia. The will that was once her own. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the Scarlet Rot. The pride she abandoned to meet Radahn's measure."
Gowry, "She is to meet them very soon, her sisters. And when she does, she'll be defeated, surely, and begin to flower. Which is why... If you happen to be present for the girl's fight with her sisters, I ask that you side with the sisters and kill Millicent. It must be done by your hand, no other. Millicent trusts you, rather deeply in fact. Sever that trust. Nurtured by betrayal, her bud will flower most vividly. When Malenia ascends to godhood, Millicent too shall be reborn. As a Scarlet Valkyrie. You can't tell me that you don't wish to see it. The superior bud that is Millicent, becoming the finest of flowers? I beg of you, kill her. With your own two hands."
This contextualizes what the flowering of the Scarlet Aeonia represents not JUST for her, but for Malenia as well. Miquella's Needle in Malenia's flesh is something that Millicent wants to remove from Malenia to give her back herself for the same reason that if you align with her against Gowry's-Golden-Needle-driven manipulation, Millicent removes the Golden Needle from herself, rather than blooming into a horrible Scarlet Aeonia – something that is a horrifying fate that she will actively decry by saying,
Millicent, "But this is where things end. I pause to even tell you, but... I took out the needle myself. Tell whoever put you up to this. That if I am to flower into something other than myself, I would rather rot into nothingness as I am. Please. let me pass alone. The Scarlet Rot writhes now, worse than ever. Soon, I won't be more than a mound of flesh. Curse-laden. Untouchable. I wouldn't want such a thing to bring you harm."
When you return, you'll find that she dies naturally. This is different from what happens if you betray her. As she's dying she'll say,
Millicent, "Ahh, how could you... Is this your true heart? Was I... was it all... for this?"
The line, "Is this your true heart?" is especially important to consider in the context that Miquella steals and manipulates the hearts of others for his own end, but also that Millicent's Prosthesis states, "The despair of sweet betrayal transformed Millicent from a mere bud into a magnificent flower. And one day, she will be reborn – as a beautiful Scarlet Valkyrie."
This is all emphasizing that the transformation into the Scarlet Bloom is triggered by a sense of betrayal whilst ALSO under the control of another individual, rather than operating from one's own free will.
When it comes to the conflict itself, the Sword Monuments that detail the battles in the Lands Between touch on this conflict in brief, with the one in Liurnia reading, "This marks Malenia's southward march. The Blade of Miquella and her Cleanrot Knights. Grant her wings never to be clipped." followed by the two in Caelid stating, "The Battle of Aeonia. Radahn and Malenia locked in stalemate. Then, the scarlet rot blooms." followed by "The Starscourge Conflict. Radahn alone holds Sellia secure. And stands tall, to shatter the stars."
So, we know that Malenia was sent down to confront Radahn directly. This would suggest that there is an inherent split between the two. Additionally, there is the detail that the lands that belong to the Carians and the Lunar royal lineage & those of Leyndell & the Erdtree are STILL separate territories. If you look at the Map of the Lands Between, you'll see that all the territory of Leyndell is bordered in Brown – whereas the lands that belong to the Carian Lunar family, Liurnia & Caelid, are STILL bordered in GREEN. (This also holds true in the DLC, as the Carians hold no territory in the Lands of Shadow).
This is important because the Haligtree itself is explicitly NOT a bordered territory. The who concept of the Unalloyed Gold is very heavily contingent upon a separation from the Golden Order, and Miquella's entire dynasty was designed to re-integrate with the Carians, a bond that Radagon's divorce had severed, and provides a lot of context into the Great Rune of the Unborn being the form of Miquella's Rune, and her Phase 2 transition being, "Ahh, my beloved... Have no fear, I will hold thee. Patience. Ye will be countless born, forever and ever." This aligns with Rennala being entranced in a perpetual dream and dedicated to the art of... Rebirth – the same fundamental goal of the Order of Rot that's manipulating Malenia, but the form which takes the way that Miquella is constantly reborn as an unblossomed bud that can never bloom on his own in a state of perpetual youth in juxtaposition to his sister. He is always in a between state and that power was left to her by Lord Radagon in the form of the Ember Egg. It's the only Great Rune that's always active without any link to a Divine Tower, because Miquella is in both states.
Sorcery explicitly protects against the Madness & Sleep statuses, and the fact that Ranni, Rogier, & Rennala are all cast into a slumber, and that Miquella's current state within his cocoon is described by Sir Gideon as being "asleep" reinforce the elements with St. Trina and the concept of Death & Rebirth being aligned to dreams the way that Bloodborne does with the "Awaken Above Ground" at tombstones being your method of travel, matching to Rennala's own quote about rebirth immediately after her battle, "Where did ye flee, my sweetings? Come out from whence ye hide. There are books and light aplenty. Dither not; come out say I! Or will ye be gravestones? To be better born anew?"
This overlaps to the fact that the Villiage of the Albinaurics is awash in poison, and the Crystal Caverns directly below Raya Lucaria Academy is the location of the Lake of Rot. As per the Poison Armament incantation that you get from the Scarab outside the Swamp of Aeonia, "Those who dwell within poison know rot all too well. The death that begets life, that comes to all equally. That is to say: it is the cycle of rebirth put into practice." Matching to how the Meteoric Ore Blade is found in the Caelid Waypoint Ruins where the tombs are a festering mass of juvenile Pests spawning from the opened tombs - Gowry himself secretly hiding in the guise of a human but possessing the body of one of the Pests. resembling the way that the Pests are also all spawning from cocoons around the Graveyard at the base of the Haligtree, as well as worshipping in the Lake of Rot below Raya Lucaria Academy.
This is where it's important to dig into the elements of how this all informs Malenia's path & history before getting deeper into the interconnected elements with the Carians.
First is worth noting that the core element of Malenia & her mentor come from the same place as Zorayas, D, Miquella, and a number of the other elements in the base game & Shadow of the Erdtree – the novel Night's Master by Tanith Lee. In that book, there are a duo known as Kazir the blind master and Ferazin the Flower-Born. His song rescues her and when she is tricked into death, he tends her grave for a year, watering it and eventually watering it with his own tears until she regrows from her grave. (The Ghost Glovewarts in Elden Ring also have a parallel to that symbolism of rebirth). In the narrative itself, the two of them become somewhat the subject of their own legends like that he slew a powerful serpent, when in reality it died of age & sorrow and he was protecting the charm that brought about that cycle of destruction & despair, they're set up in a way that that's indirectly referred back to the way that the Blind Swordsman is in Elden Ring in some later novels
(Note: I am still reading the Tales of a Flat Earth series and am mid-way through the 4th of the 5 books, so there is some context here that's potentially a bit incomplete in my ability to expand upon the shared mythology as while their story is VERY self-contained in Night's Master, the two are mentioned a few times since as legendary figures, so I'm not sure if there are any other elements of that which will eventually open up beyond that or provide echoes back to those characters at a later point in that mythology. And yes, I do jump through multiple series at once rather unevenly at times, but especially in this case as Tales of a Flat Earth are written narrative whereas Der Ring das Nibelungen is an operatic play that means that consuming both of them takes a very different type of focus).
The Prosthesis-Wearer Heirloom that you get at the start of Gowry's Quest states, "Though born into the accursed rot, when the young girl encountered her mentor and his flowing blade, she gained wings of unparalleled strength." Her mentor is the Blind Swordsman who we know of from the Blue Dancer Charm, "The dancer in blue represents a fairy, who in legend bestowed a flowing sword upon a blind swordsman. Blade in hand, the swordsman sealed away an ancient god — a god that was Rot itself." and this, in turn reflects upon the relic enshrined at the Lake of Rot – the Scorpion Stinger, "Dagger fashioned from a great scorpion's tail, glistening with scarlet rot. A ceremonial tool used by heretics, crafted from the relic of a sealed outer god."
All of these are design elements which are amalgamated into a reconstituted form in Romina, Saint of the Bud.
Her Rotten Butterflies only trigger Scarlet Rot when they stop moving, and the incantation states, "Summons a myriad of butterflies while performing a gentle twirl. The butterflies break apart on contact, scattering rot and setting off a chain reaction. The scarlet butterflies are as the Goddess of Rot's wings. Bereft of a master, they were soothed by Romina, who reached out to them." focusing on that sense of abandonment, while her Poleblade has the same floating movement that Malenia does and emphasizes its symbolism, "Weapon of Romina, Saint of the Bud. A scarlet glaive with a dangling bud-like blade. Attacks cause buildup of rot. Once, in the crumbling, burning church, Romina held the bud in speechless silence. That bud would become her blade."
Not only is her body that of a butterfly-winged fairy & a flower petals & seeds fused with a centipede & scorpion, but the asset for the thorn-encircled stinger is even called a "Needle" which is the other crucial element, even having that form in the Ash of War, The Poison Flower Blooms Twice, which causes a recipient of Poison/Rot to detonate in a damage burst like Frostbite/Bleed, emphasizing the way in which that blooming occurs.
Romina's form of flowering rebirth is only possible after fire burns her church and opens the buds, and this is the same visual language that's used for the Erdtree supposedly never having seeds, and the various other reasons why it can't die, but why it explicitly needs to be burned for a new Elden Lord to ascend, as the Full Bloom forms of the Erdtree Guardians are more vulnerable to fire but receive more healing from the Erdtree's sap via the Flask of Tears as that's the form of the god which they're preying upon, but the similarly designed Curseblade Masks reduce the healing Flask's effectiveness as they're feeding on injuring themselves in an attempt to rise to godhood. This contextualizes Malenia's Great Rune and her relationship to the Haligtree, where the reduction of the healing flasks is offset by her sustainance from feeding on combat with others.
This is because her master the Blind Swordsman developed the guard-countering technique as per the Curved Sword Talisman, "It is said that a blind swordsman was the originator of this technique — the art of allowing one's opponent to strike so as to leave them vulnerable to a well-timed reply." This allows Malenia who is also blind to be able to still be effective in combat. The Flowing-Curved Sword which is being taken in a coffin to Ordina Liturgical Town (base of the Black Knives & entrance to the Haligtree) offers more, "Legends speak of a master of the sword garbed in blue, and his curved blade that was patterned after flowing water. Strong attack unleashes a series of strikes akin to a dance, offering a glimpse into the legend." This contextualizes the hovering, flowing movement that Malenia, Millicent, & the Black Knife Assassins all use.
Blue Silver is a metal borne of the same mother as the Albinaurics themselves, hence it being worn by the archers there, and also being the color of the armor of the Black Knife Assassins both in that same place. It provides protection against both magic & frost – both of the elements connected to Ranni's character, but in direct juxtaposition to the underlying theme that defines the Barbarians who also follow the same creed where their Blue Cloth symbolizes that flowing as the means by which Rot is prevented from victory, "Cowl of a nomadic warrior. The blue color of its fabric symbolizes brisk waters, as fluid and flowing as the sword in the hand of its wearer. Just as still waters turn foul, stagnation leads to decay. Warriors must remain ever-drifting." and is the underlying creed of Nepheli Loux becoming the rightful heir to Stormvale by defeating Godrick, Gideon, & Godfrey with you and refusing to allow the stagnant winds to take hold – especially as she sees the injustices of the Village of the Albinaurics which further interconnect these themes to Malenia and also outside of her.
In Ranni's case, that cold magic has to be made pliant through love & human connection to YOU as the player willingly being her Consort Eternal as she ascends to godhood and presides over the Age of Stars. This is in a reflected juxtaposition to the relationship that Miquella & Radahn have, which is an embodiment of the mirrored reverse of those things. This HEAVILY suggests that Radahn didn't agree to any form of that union, but that this was instead the result of Miquella's continued coercion & vision like the Miquella's Knight Sword removing glintstone & replacing it with Amber similarly to how Radagon gave the Amber egg with that rune to Rennala, "Sword forged by servants of Miquella of the Haligtree, with a design modeled after those carried by Carian knights. Instead of glintstone however, amber from the Haligtree is embedded in the blade. A sumptuous piece, yet it has never been offered to any knight — an ill-starred sword with no master."
An ill-starred dynasty looking to Radahn to control the stars FOR him.
The level of interconnection there being changed between some elements in the release version to what they were in 1.0 that make the differences more apparent and provide more context.
Blue Silver & the Albinaurics:
• Release version: "Chainmail armor crafted with blue silver. Worn by the wolf-riding Albinauric archers. Blue silver is a metal born from the same mother as the archers themselves, and provides protection from magic and frost."
• 1.0 Version: "Armor worn by females of the artificial lifeforms known as Children of Silver. Formed of the same silver from which these beings
are birthed, this is the only material that doesn't irritate their skin. These maids constructed in Raya Lucaria headed to the Paling Tower, to enter Miquella's service."
Loretta:
• Release Version: "Silver helm of Loretta, a knight who served Miquella's Haligtree. Loretta was once a royal Carian knight, and her lapis-lazuli blue cape is the emblem of the knightly pride that continues to guide her. Loretta, once a royal Carian knight, went on a journey in search of a haven for Albinaurics, and determined that the Haligtree was their best chance for eventual salvation."
• 1.0 Version: "Silver armor of the Arbor Sentinels who serve the sacred tree of Miquella, the Scion Empyrean. Hailing from Raya Lucaria, these enchanted knights once belonged to the Carian royal family, but were later gifted to Miquella, recipient of the Vision, by King Consort Radagon. The lapis blue trimmings reveal these origins."
Additionally there's the never-implemented Abundance Twinblade: "Twinblade that contain the power of the Rune of Abundance. The holy power within the blade can call upon part of Miquella's own strength." as well as the Abindance & Decay Twinblade: "Twinblade symbolizing twins Miquella and Malenia. Miquella and his sister were born from an inseparable fate. The blades contain the Runes of both Abundance and Decay." showing that there was an early conceptualization of Miquella's Rune that eventually changed.
This was implemented as the Legendary armament of the Tower, Euporia in Shadow of the Erdtree, took it in a different direction more in line with Godwyn the Golden, "Twinblade symbolizing abundance. The secret treasure of the tower. Though the blades, fashioned from golden shoots, are largely wilted and darkened, their luster can be restored by dealing damage to foes. However, damage dealt to Those Who Live in Death will have no such effect." which reflects that back in 1.0, all the Knights at the Haligtree have armor which states, "<armor piece> used by soldiers/knights of Miquella, the Golden Twin" showing that those themes, and how they connected to Godwyn in the main game as well as Shadow of the Erdtree are heavily in flux in how that relationship & Radahn's aren't really fully clarified at various points in the narrative, and remain in flux during a lot of development as those themes are shifted around and redefined.
The 1.0 version of the Haligtree is also the only location where the Oracles appear (as there are none in Leyndell) and the Bubble attacks that they utilize are all the same Glintstone Blue as those of the Claymen hinting at that shared origin, before they were altered in the release version to be Golden like the incantation, and starting to further shift some more of those elements again. (Hence the symbolism of The Dark Moon of Ranni & Eclipsed Sun of Godwyn as the two reflections of one another shifting more towards Ranni & Miquella).
There's also the detail that Radahn was still referred to as the "God of War" in 1.0, whereas Malenia's role was that of the "Red Queen" as per the Cleanrot Knight Equipment:
• Release Version: "Armor of the Cleanrot Knights, celebrated for their undefeated campaign in the Shattering. The Cleanrot Knights vowed to fight alongside Malenia, despite the inevitable, if gradual, putrefaction of their flesh. Their acceptance of their fate made these battles the fiercest of all."
• 1.0 Version: "Armor of a Wing Knight, honorbound to Malenia, the Red Queen. These knights, considered the strongest in the Shattering, descended upon General Radahn's army in an almighty battle, continuing to fight even as their bodies came apart. Only after their work was done did they allow themselves to succumb. Still plagued by the fungal rot deployed in that battle, the armor itself is decaying."
This really puts the two of them as THE ultimates of their respective factions vying for control post-Shattering. Even despite that, Malenia's equipment all focuses on herself as being a warrior and being relentless & rotten, whereas Radahn's focuses on him using his power for & out of kindness. Beyond the well-known example of the Remembrance of the Starscourge giving context to Radahn's relationship with his steed Leonard, "The Red Lion General wielded gravitational powers which he learned in Sellia during his younger days. All so he would never have to abandon his beloved but scrawny steed." There is also the altered lore between the Release Version & 1.0 that was noteworthy in establishing a similar element of his character even back at an earlier point.
The Longtail Cat Talisman in 1.0:
"A brooch depicting a long-tailed cat, known to be the beloved pet of General Radahn. Reduces fall damage. This black cat was known to have enjoyed jumping down from great heights; it would leap from the great bell-tower of Raya Lucaria as a kitten, and once fully grown, from the great heavenward roots that twisted through the Erdtree Capital skies."
The Longtail Cat Talisman in the Release Version:
"A brooch depicting Lacrima, the long-tailed cat. Grants immunity to fall damage, but does not prevent death from a high fall. Lacrima features in the fables of Raya Lucaria, in which she is described as a faerie cat who was fond of playing in the great bell tower."
Even while that's removed from the release version, the sense of who Radahn was, and that he loved the things about his heritage that even Radagon hesitated to embrace like the name "Redmanes" focuses on his lineage to the Giants, in addition to his leonine royal position. That kindness and acceptance are a core element to his character that make the nature of how he would respond to Miquella's request an inherently difficult one to answer, which is likely why we don't get an verbal acknowledgment one way or another. Moreso than ANY of that is that the moniker, "Miquella the Kind" that is used throughout Shadow of the Erdtree is used to emphasize that his kindness is anything but truth, which is in absolute antithesis to everything about Radahn's portrayal.
This brings things to the Carian & Leyndell unification which takes two forms – Ranni & the Elden Lord VS. Radahn & Miquella.
Radahn's choice seems fairly well defined now as in opposition given that he not ONLY didn't guide the stars to Miquella's favor – he arrested their movement completely to prevent his fate from being manipulated by ANYONE – which is about the ONLY possible way that Miquella would have been stopped, and also why he remained frozen in slumber during the entirety of the main game's campaign. He maintained this even as his mind rotted away and everything else aside from his kindness and protective inclination towards Leonard was erased from him, which reinforces the same thing that happens with Blaidd later on. That protective nature he clung to is in opposition to Miquella's use of him, rather than in alignment to it.
This also builds into how the Young Lion's Helm includes the quote from Malenia that she whispers to Radahn when she's fighting him in Caelid, "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort." JUST before she blooms into the flower that obliterates Caelid and destroys Radahn's mind with Rot that reduces him to a crazed beast left clinging to the final vestiges of his humanity... and STILL keeping the stars firmly locked in their places. That Malenia's Scarlet Bloom could only have been triggered by an experience of Betrayal & Manipulation in equal parts at the delivery of this line reflects on Miquella's defiance towards Radahn's will, and using Malenia as a tool to obtain something even greater than herself for her brother.
This is something that you can actually see her say to him during the VERY first story cinematic narrated by Ranni, although we don't know if that was always what was planned as her line, it's fairly clear that there's a narrative here that's meant to represent that same elements as Gowry & Millicent's narrative. Malenia's death at Radahn's hand was Radahn's defiance against Miquella's plan which was seen as a betrayal. Rather than uniting the strongest of the Erdtree & Moon under The Shattering, it was keeping them separated.
Essentially, it seems as though Ranni's path has always been the sole path which is meant to show the Carians having agency, rather than Leyndell. Radahn's arresting of the stars froze her own future as well as his fate, which is what leads your path to need to bring an end to her brother's story, which aligns to the wishes of both Blaidd & Jerren.
When the topic of bringing Radahn back comes about Redmane Freyja explicitly mentions that Jerren would be opposed to the idea, and in him hunting down Sellen amongst other things dealing with preventing the sorcerous reconstitution of an individual into another's body also being thematically intertwined into the relationship that she had with Pidia/Seluvis.
If you attempt to attack & betray Ranni – she & Seluvis both vanish & Blaidd becomes hostile, indicating that the nature by which she was able to circumvent a natural death and attach herself to a puppet was likely connected to Seluvis' knowledge out of necessity, especially as we know that Seluvis is simply the puppet persona of Pidia, and he's previously attempted to gain some advantage over Ranni using an assassin disguised as Blaidd whose mask he find outside of his tower. Thus once Ranni gets the Finger Slayer Blade and is able to invert that relationship, Pidia's puppets turn on him and kill him, rendering Seluvis inert and enabling Ranni her freedom to act as she wishes.
During her slumber, Seluvis is also responsible for taking the Amber Starlight Shard that you take from in front of Miquella's Statue in Leyndell and turning it into a potion that he attempts to use to gain control of Ranni as a puppet before she can free herself from that bond. Doing this will have her banish you, and even instantly kill you if you attempt to continually interact with her after that betrayal. This is in a stark juxtaposition to giving a sleeping potion to Florissax, the Dragon Priestess who is forced to sacrifice her sleep to Lord Placidusax every night. If you give her Thiollier's Concoction while she sleeps, defeating Bayle & confessing this to her results in her pledging herself to you in exchange for that transgression, becoming the only Spirit Ash who speaks to you directly as her noble Lord. (In the second case, Florissax succumbing to that slumber is something she still sees as HER transgression, and is much closer to the Arthur, Guinevere, Lancelot dynamic).
Again, the same actions taken from a position where you have a different understanding of the agency of the relationship between both parties changes the nature of what you're doing for/to them. Again, this is in a VERY purposeful juxtaposition to the same dynamic between Gowry & Millicent as it's testing things about who you truly are. Is the woman you're helping simply an opportunity to acquire the most powerful tool that exists so that you can manipulate it for your own power – or are you considering specifically what SHE desires in addition to your own wants, as well as whether or not she's free enough to understand her own wishes. In Florissax's case her Incantation indicates she's never known love, and thus her attachment to Placidusax is one of absolute obligation where she has no choice, just like how the Needle removes the agency that Millicent has over herself even as it suppresses the Scarlet Rot to shape her into a tool as a means to an end, whereas Ranni's mission is about extracting herself from various forces that prevent her from having agency over herself.
This is the core of the decision for why you have to allow Melina to sacrifice herself as a kindling maiden, and not try to save her against her own will by becoming the kindling yourself via becoming host to the Three Fingers. You have to understand when denying someone's wishes is a path to heroism vs. when it is a path to damnation & destruction. The same is true for why you don't allow Zorayas to forget the horrible truth of the nature of her birth, nor do you spare her the pain by killing her. You defeat Rykard & free her from the system which would persecute or manipulate her regardless of her own agency.
(Note: Zorayas' story in Night's Master is an extremely painful story about her as the heir to a kingdom and the pain of self-loathing that is a result of the abuse & rape that she endured as a child leaving her physically deformed with a hunched stance nearly identical to Zorayas' human form in Elden Ring. Even as she becomes an unstoppably powerful queen, her inability to ever feel truly loved by anyone is eventually what leads to her own self-destruction, and thus the path where you kill Rykard & spare her to receive her letter in Elden Ring is specifically crafted such that you give this version of her story a way to experience something that is otherwise impossible for her to have obtained. This sort of meta narrative understanding for why that narrative has the focus that it does helps a lot in understanding the particulars of the pitfalls & other confrontations presented in Elden Ring).
This is to conclude that Radahn is placed into a position where his kindness & position put him into a place where despite his authority, there really isn't a good way for him to object to Miquella outright other than winning the scramble for power during The Shattering – which he did. The E3 2019 Announcement trailer also shows us more of that battle than we see anywhere else – Radahn in the aftermath of the attack, his body glowing and burning with gold in a field surrounded by lifeless corpses.
I can think of few moments that stand out more clearly as Radahn's answer to Miquella being "No." that stand more starkly than this, despite it being something that we never see in the game, and it being something that was even pre-Closed Beta Test, the core nature of Radahn seems as though it has always been designed to ensure that it evokes a sense of sympathy and justice in death, so that in Shadow of the Erdtree, the very idea of Radahn being forced back to life as a consort vessel for another's ascension to godhood feels like the abuse of power that it is, – even for one whose own power seems unmatched, it's still possible for him to be the victim of a power dynamic just as much as any of the demigods, or even Queen Marika herself.
So first & foremost is that in mythology the Snake & the Tree are a VERY well known interconnected pair. In the Samudra Manthana (the story of the Indras & Asuras creating Amrita that created the absolute cosmological divide between them), the serpent & king of the Nagas, Vasuki is used as the churning rope to churn the Ocean of Milk, the divine tree Kalpavriksha is one of the treasures emerging from that endeavour. There's also Nidhogg gnawing at the roots of Yggdrasil as well as Jörmungandr & Yggdrasil in Norse mythology, as well as the Edenian Serpent along with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil from Abrahamic mythology. (It's worth noting that the Serpent/Satan is not the same as the fallen angel Lucifer, just the same as the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil is not the same as the Tree of Life – which is to say that most Western sources will directly conflate them as they're seen as the same in most contexts HOWEVER occasionally there are points where Japanese having a different approach to Abrahamic mythology will treat them as explicitly different entities, and can differentiate the symbolism that it attributes to those things, even before you get to the complicated elements of problematic messianic figures).
Simply put, Snakes & Trees have a particular relationship that involves an ideologically opposed nature to the endeavours of obtaining godlike powers or immortality, and how one is treasured while the other is feared. While churning the Ocean of Milk, Vasuki's poison Halahala is the antithesis of Amrita, making the link between the Indra & Asura schism fairly straightfoward. In Abrahamic mythology, the tree itself is the actual SOURCE of the forbidden fruit, but it isn't seen as anathema rather as something divinely sanctified – whereas the Serpent is trapped or otherwise blamed for the ills that come about despite the tree being at fault. This in particular makes them an EXTREMELY useful component of visual design language for creating entities in a Western Fantasy format that communicate themes well regardless of cultural background, but also adds in a number of paths for complexity about the true nature of the relationship between them
There is another DEEPLY important historical mythological element here which is Pandora's relationship to Eve. In the narrative of the Garden of Eden, Eve's temptation results in them being cast from the garden & humanity burdened with Sin, reinforcing that God's divinity is not to be questioned but obeyed as righteousness. However, in the mythology of Pandora, the tempter is the god Hermes/Mercury (whose lineage may trace back to a Mesopotamian serpent god), and the moral of the story is she is sent to Prometheus in punishment for his stealing fire, and that while all the evils escape HOPE is trapped inside such that none may defy the will of Zeus. Rather than God being righteously divine, the Zeus manipulates circumstances such that it is impossible for anyone to resist him out of fear of the horrors that he's caused a scapegoat to suffer, whilst boosting greater love of the one who actually created the suffering, and casting blame upon the Serpent who facilitated accelerated that as an even worse evil.
Notably, the underlying mechanics of an omniscient, omnipotent god placing beings with free will in a finite space for an eternal period of time, without the knowledge of the difference between good & evil, AND placing a tempter within that space means that it's a statistical impossibility for Adam & Eve NOT to eventually eat the fruit of the tree & be cast out, so they are functionally the same story. This is a large component to how the Roman Empire's transition to Christianity utilizing religion as a tool for imperial unification likely became extremely effective in understanding ways to change the moral lesson from a known story structure to one that focuses on obedience & faith in absolute authority rather than understanding that it should always be seen for what it is. This overlaps with how the initial unification of Japan into a singular empire used Buddhism in the same way as a tool for unification, and the Shinto traditions became embedded within that. Both of those are critical & core elements of historical context with interconnected elements that are deeply explored in both Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind as well as in BERSERK, which make them easy to assimilate into the core components of mythology in the Souls series with its focus on the moral questions around Promethean fire, and eventually bringing a different form of that into Elden Ring as well.
This now brings us to Elden Ring's core mythology where there are a few outer gods that we know of indirectly, the only one who has an active presence that's also one of the eldest is the Serpent-God that Rykard feeds himself to. The Recusants of Volcano Manor stand in an antithetical relationship to Leyndell & the Erdtree, as both are now in a form where they simply seek to consume everything else and overpower the other – which is a monstrous fate regardless of who wins, hence the need for the Serpent to be slain before it destroys the world as Rykard saw in his vision just before he was devoured AND for the Erdtree to burn as well.
Prior to the Age of the Erdtree, the Deathbirds tended the Ghostflame to burn the dead to ashes where their sacrificial rites were focused on the spirit (restores FP), and the Serpent-God used sacrificial offerings to bring biological life to others hence finding the Serpend-God's Curved Sword on the Ruin-Strewn Precipice underneath one of the Land Octopus whose ovaries require human blood for reproduction (this and Rykard's Blasphemous Blade from within the Serpent's own body both restore HP on kill).
Additionally, the Triple Serpent motif on the Taker's Cameo talisman that also restores HP on kill is the same serpent motif used on the crossguards for Messemer's Spear of the Impaler, and this motif ALSO exists at the base of the ice-lightning Dragon Halberd. This seems to hint at some of the disconnected elements of the artificial draconic nature that link to themes of consuming others hearts for their power in Dragon Communion. The Ancient Dragonkin Soldiers name is identical to the Ancient Dragon-Man in the Lands of Shadow in Japanese, so I'm not sure if the differentiation between Dragon-Man & Dragonkin were intentional or overlooked in the Shadow of the Erdtree localization. Suffice to say that the Serpent itself is about an amalgamation of power through taking a physical element of one being into/onto oneself. We see the Lesser Dragons assimilating those things into themselves, just as we see the Serpent-Snails doing the same to their environments.
This leads to the most ancient practice which is that of the Godskins. The pieces of the Godskin Noble's set states that, "Nobles are the most ancient apostles who are said to have assimilated inhuman physiology. Not unlike the crucible, the Erdtree in its primordial form." where as the Godskin Apostle set indicates more about them, "The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame. But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away." So, we know that not only did they serve the Gloam-Eyed Queen, the physical powers that they wield are Serpentine in nature, and they also possess a Black Flame (originally the type of fire that was going to consume the Erdtree when Melina acts as its Kindling).
The Godskin Duo are located at the Dragon Temple within Farum Azula, and the position of the draconic head in this place is important because this ritualistic setup is mirrored at the Temple of Eiglay with the cast off skin of the Serpent God, where you discover the Serpent's Amnion which was the result of the birthing ritual by which Zorayas was created. This location is especially notable as mythologically the name comes from the Lithuanian Eglė the Queen of Serpents.
In the mythology, Elgė discovers a snake in her clothes and it agrees to leave if she agrees to marry it. She consents, and when three days later thousands of snakes arrive her family attempts to deceive them with other offerings until threatened, they give up Eglė to them as she promised. Her bridegroom, Žilvinas the prince of snakes appears in human form and takes her to their subterranean, undersea palace where they have 4 children. One day when her children ask about her family, they are initially forbidden to return but eventually permitted and told the incantation to summon him and instructed to tell no one else. However, now that she's back her family doesn't want to let them return and plot to kill Žilvinas, frightening the children until the youngest daughter gives up the incantation, and her family murders Žilvinas. Upon learning that her husband is dead when she calls out to him, she turns her children and then herself all irreversably into living trees.
The incantation "Žilvinas, dear Žilvinėlis, If alive – may the sea foam milk, If dead – may the sea foam blood…" has a particularly good overlap into the themes with the Samudra Manthana's Ocean of Milk & Halahala poison, but this tale's location also has a strong overlap to the Dragon Palace from Japanese mythology with the Rip Van Winkle-like tale of Urashima Taro who is invited to the undersea palace after rescuing a turtle and spends a few days with the princess Otohime and is given the Tamatebako to protect him from harm – so long as he never opens it. When he returns to land, he discovers he's been gone for more than a hundred years, and upon opening the box, ages instantly. Another parallel to Pandora's Box with a different lesson, but which helps to frame the context between humans & the draconic passage of time being interconnected to these themes, and the Subterranean lairs that have to be reached via supernatural means (the Sending Gate through the secret Man-Serpent throne room in Volcano Manor, or Lady Tanith sending you there).
This circles around into two elements that we know for certain – The Gloam-Eyed Queen (almost certainly Melina) is bodyless, and her brother Messemer is intertwined with the Serpents that Marika represses and hides away in the Lands of Shadow to disconnect them as her own children. The Serpents became the scapegoat for Erdtree's tool of vengeance & hatred as the Duelists in that attire were driven from the Colosseums, "The snake is viewed as a traitor to the Erdtree, and the audience delighted in seeing these bronze effigies beaten and battered." However, the shed Snake skin outside of Bonny Village where nearby the body of one of the Shaman is growing into a tree speaks that it was the SNAKE who was first betrayed. Even further reinforcing that element is the fact that Enir-Ilim is build from bodies, and the Golden Trees found throughout are ALSO made of things that were once human. Messemer is the force that the Empyrean Grandam in Belurat thinks ill of even as the Tower above is replete with the trees of the once-living. No matter if it's in the Lands Between or the Lands of Shadow – the Serpent is reviled.
This creates a circumstance that mythologically reinforces the role of characters like the Serpent, Satan, & Judas – where the salvation of everyone else is only possible to be facilitated with them acting as a scapegoat and for all of the love to be forever irrevocably turned away from them. Like Messemer, if they draw their definition from that relationship, it's exploring a different avenue of Morgott loving and protecting a kingdom which will never love him in return & Mohg despising and wanting to overthrow a kingdom which will never embrace the accursed Hornsent – but Messemer would burn both of them to death regardless, because that is what his mother willed him to do. However, this betrayal has VERY poetic consequences which is that everyone is turned into trees by being hewn into the Erdtree as the form of immortality, such that that the Serpents are creatures of flame who serve as the kindling to burn them away, no matter how immortal they are. Summoned Spirits are from the ashes of those who didn't return to the Erdtree.
Messemer's Kindling, "The kindling that burned inside Messmer the Impaler. A dark thing, eaten away at by a wicked serpent. Burns the sealing tree said to be found at the old Rauh ruins. Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire." Despite that dark component, the Winged Serpents bound into his body are anything but base & wicked, but rather they are kind & accepting as his Helm states. "Black helm of Messmer the Impaler, crowned with two intertwined winged serpents. Slightly enhances incantations of Messmer's flame as well as Fire Knight skills. The winged snakes were Messmer's constant companions. They were there when the base serpent was sealed away behind his eye. They were there through his eternity of suffering. They will accompany him yet, in his hideous new form, born when he destroyed the grace granted by his mother. They have accepted his fate as much as he." They bear the transformation with dignity & comfort that nothing else would offer even as what they represent and bring about is reviled by ALL.
The base-game's Candletree Wooden Shield is found with the Black Knife Assassin & Necromancer, and its symbolism used pervasively within the Haligtree, "Thought to represent a surreptitious prophecy of cardinal sin, the lit candle-tree design was forbidden." and even the Catch Flame incantation, "Incantation originating from a sinister prophecy. Momentarily sparks flame from the caster's hand. This incantation can be cast without delay after performing another action. The flame of ruin is anathema to the Erdtree. But prophets sometimes glimpse it within the faith all the same. Sadly when this occurs their sole reward is banishment." though The Shattering started to expose some of that hypocrisy with the Perfumer's Spark Aromatic, "Art of the perfumers who fought In the Shattering. Craftable with a perfume bottle. Uses FP to broadly scatter sparks in a wide arc straight ahead. Though fire was prohibited to those who served the Erdtree, this rule was forgotten as the war drew ever on."
This is also why Leyndell's core design has a VERY particular design element that all of the natural lighting in the entire city is NOT from flame. It's from glowing flower petals placed into chandeliers and other candle-holders. The presence of torches & other fire sources are because in 1.0 Leyndell didn't have any resident forces, and it was occupied by the Dragon Communion practicing Exiled Knights who were there to worship Gransax, and those torches all follow specifically where they've gone through the city. This is one of those rather meticulous details that's obfuscated by the changes made for the release version and wasn't fully redesigned so there is some contradiction to its portrayal that doesn't make sense without the original design context.
So, this would suggest that the Serpents were the original source of the Shaman's power to be able to assimilate the flesh of others into themselves, which lead to their persecution at Bonny Village with them being put into Jars to purify the spirits of the convicts and turn them into saints in the form of the Living Jars. This also gives context on why the Godskin Apostles are wearing what appears to be supple human skin, but gaining Serpentine powers akin to the Primordial Crucible. There seems to have been some direct relationship between the Serpent-God & the Shaman, but there was a seduction & betrayal of some kind – something which is EXPLICITLY STATED when speaking about the beginning about how Marika obtained her power at the Gate of Divinity that split things between Gold & Shadow.
And what of the Shaman village where Marika came from?
No one there is alive. The only thing we find is yet again, another person turned into a tree, and the central thing in that place? The location of the Minor Erdtree incantation – a spell that ONLY Melina casts in the base game if you summon her to fight against King Morgott. "Secret incantation of Queen Marika. Only the kindness of gold, without Order. Creates a small, illusory Erdtree that continuously restores the HP of nearby allies. Marika bathed the village of her home in gold, knowing full well that there was no one to heal."
There is a CONSTANT layer of continually obfuscated betrayal & overwriting of history by those in power, with only tiny little elements peeking through to force questions to the perspectives that you're being shown when everything doesn't quite add up. Like the torches in Leyndell, this is oftentime just residual inconsistency of changes in the design decisions that don't fully penetrate to what's been implemented in development just as much as they are at their point of inception something that is at one time deeply & fully understood as an outlying element of the narrative that has its own tiny story often bolstered by an external knowledge of history or local mythology to cultural references that are assimilated & syncretized to make multiple avenues of interpretation valid.
Given that this form of the shed serpent skin only appears at the Temply of Eiglay in Volcano Manor & outside of Bonny Village just beyond where a woman is turned into a tree – I think that that specifically is reason to look at that mythology as an implied element of some of the narrative that we don't see directly between the Snake-God & Erdtree in the conflict that took place between Marika & the Gloam-Eyed Queen that resulted in Destined Death being sealed away.
One other reinforcing detail to this is one of the ONLY remaining pieces of VASTLY different lore from 1.0 which are the Skeletal Militiamen Ashes:
• Release Version: "Ashen remains in which spirits yet dwell. Use to summon the spirits of two skeletal militiamen. These are the spirits of militiamen who live in Death, and will continue to rise again until properly finished off. This is the grotesque fate of those who come into contact with Deathroot."
• 1.0 Version: "Spirit ashes. Summons the spirits of two skeletal men-at-arms from nearby a rebirth monument found throughout the land. (Summoning consumes FP.) Following the Night of Black Knives, fragments of death were strewn throughout the realm, giving birth to those who lived beyond death. This valiant pair of soldiers were touched by a fragment of death while defending their village."
This presents a version of the lore which was VERY different, and where the presence of the Black Flame robbed of its god-slaying powers was much more prevalent. This and Ghostflame weren't really differentiated well, and even Ghostflame didn't get its frostbiting nature until later on. The narrative around this particular purpose of Melina acting as Kindling & being this reflection of Marika also reaches back to elements like Miranda's Prayer & the Flower Crucible as unused items that Melina holds in addition to being able to use the Minor Erdtree incantation that reflect very different forms that the story had interconnected into the flower & butterfly design elements about Marika's children early on.
What I think is MOST interesting is that a Godskin Apostle wielding the Godskin Peeler, surrounded by flame in a temple was one of the VERY first pieces of promotional Concept Art EVER released of Elden Ring, and given that Messemer has the EXACT same overly-elongated physical body proportions directly intertwined with benevolent winged Serpents, those particular mythological elements being about the facilitation of the death of the gods themselves & how to wield that power were parts of the conflict that existed in early moments of the story that were overwritten in multiple forms before we got to the version that exists, but remain such that there are glimpses of that influence still in a way that feels ancient and overwritten – but not forgotten.
Simply put, Snakes & Trees have a particular relationship that involves an ideologically opposed nature to the endeavours of obtaining godlike powers or immortality, and how one is treasured while the other is feared. While churning the Ocean of Milk, Vasuki's poison Halahala is the antithesis of Amrita, making the link between the Indra & Asura schism fairly straightfoward. In Abrahamic mythology, the tree itself is the actual SOURCE of the forbidden fruit, but it isn't seen as anathema rather as something divinely sanctified – whereas the Serpent is trapped or otherwise blamed for the ills that come about despite the tree being at fault. This in particular makes them an EXTREMELY useful component of visual design language for creating entities in a Western Fantasy format that communicate themes well regardless of cultural background, but also adds in a number of paths for complexity about the true nature of the relationship between them
There is another DEEPLY important historical mythological element here which is Pandora's relationship to Eve. In the narrative of the Garden of Eden, Eve's temptation results in them being cast from the garden & humanity burdened with Sin, reinforcing that God's divinity is not to be questioned but obeyed as righteousness. However, in the mythology of Pandora, the tempter is the god Hermes/Mercury (whose lineage may trace back to a Mesopotamian serpent god), and the moral of the story is she is sent to Prometheus in punishment for his stealing fire, and that while all the evils escape HOPE is trapped inside such that none may defy the will of Zeus. Rather than God being righteously divine, the Zeus manipulates circumstances such that it is impossible for anyone to resist him out of fear of the horrors that he's caused a scapegoat to suffer, whilst boosting greater love of the one who actually created the suffering, and casting blame upon the Serpent who facilitated accelerated that as an even worse evil.
Notably, the underlying mechanics of an omniscient, omnipotent god placing beings with free will in a finite space for an eternal period of time, without the knowledge of the difference between good & evil, AND placing a tempter within that space means that it's a statistical impossibility for Adam & Eve NOT to eventually eat the fruit of the tree & be cast out, so they are functionally the same story. This is a large component to how the Roman Empire's transition to Christianity utilizing religion as a tool for imperial unification likely became extremely effective in understanding ways to change the moral lesson from a known story structure to one that focuses on obedience & faith in absolute authority rather than understanding that it should always be seen for what it is. This overlaps with how the initial unification of Japan into a singular empire used Buddhism in the same way as a tool for unification, and the Shinto traditions became embedded within that. Both of those are critical & core elements of historical context with interconnected elements that are deeply explored in both Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind as well as in BERSERK, which make them easy to assimilate into the core components of mythology in the Souls series with its focus on the moral questions around Promethean fire, and eventually bringing a different form of that into Elden Ring as well.
This now brings us to Elden Ring's core mythology where there are a few outer gods that we know of indirectly, the only one who has an active presence that's also one of the eldest is the Serpent-God that Rykard feeds himself to. The Recusants of Volcano Manor stand in an antithetical relationship to Leyndell & the Erdtree, as both are now in a form where they simply seek to consume everything else and overpower the other – which is a monstrous fate regardless of who wins, hence the need for the Serpent to be slain before it destroys the world as Rykard saw in his vision just before he was devoured AND for the Erdtree to burn as well.
Prior to the Age of the Erdtree, the Deathbirds tended the Ghostflame to burn the dead to ashes where their sacrificial rites were focused on the spirit (restores FP), and the Serpent-God used sacrificial offerings to bring biological life to others hence finding the Serpend-God's Curved Sword on the Ruin-Strewn Precipice underneath one of the Land Octopus whose ovaries require human blood for reproduction (this and Rykard's Blasphemous Blade from within the Serpent's own body both restore HP on kill).
Additionally, the Triple Serpent motif on the Taker's Cameo talisman that also restores HP on kill is the same serpent motif used on the crossguards for Messemer's Spear of the Impaler, and this motif ALSO exists at the base of the ice-lightning Dragon Halberd. This seems to hint at some of the disconnected elements of the artificial draconic nature that link to themes of consuming others hearts for their power in Dragon Communion. The Ancient Dragonkin Soldiers name is identical to the Ancient Dragon-Man in the Lands of Shadow in Japanese, so I'm not sure if the differentiation between Dragon-Man & Dragonkin were intentional or overlooked in the Shadow of the Erdtree localization. Suffice to say that the Serpent itself is about an amalgamation of power through taking a physical element of one being into/onto oneself. We see the Lesser Dragons assimilating those things into themselves, just as we see the Serpent-Snails doing the same to their environments.
This leads to the most ancient practice which is that of the Godskins. The pieces of the Godskin Noble's set states that, "Nobles are the most ancient apostles who are said to have assimilated inhuman physiology. Not unlike the crucible, the Erdtree in its primordial form." where as the Godskin Apostle set indicates more about them, "The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame. But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away." So, we know that not only did they serve the Gloam-Eyed Queen, the physical powers that they wield are Serpentine in nature, and they also possess a Black Flame (originally the type of fire that was going to consume the Erdtree when Melina acts as its Kindling).
The Godskin Duo are located at the Dragon Temple within Farum Azula, and the position of the draconic head in this place is important because this ritualistic setup is mirrored at the Temple of Eiglay with the cast off skin of the Serpent God, where you discover the Serpent's Amnion which was the result of the birthing ritual by which Zorayas was created. This location is especially notable as mythologically the name comes from the Lithuanian Eglė the Queen of Serpents.
In the mythology, Elgė discovers a snake in her clothes and it agrees to leave if she agrees to marry it. She consents, and when three days later thousands of snakes arrive her family attempts to deceive them with other offerings until threatened, they give up Eglė to them as she promised. Her bridegroom, Žilvinas the prince of snakes appears in human form and takes her to their subterranean, undersea palace where they have 4 children. One day when her children ask about her family, they are initially forbidden to return but eventually permitted and told the incantation to summon him and instructed to tell no one else. However, now that she's back her family doesn't want to let them return and plot to kill Žilvinas, frightening the children until the youngest daughter gives up the incantation, and her family murders Žilvinas. Upon learning that her husband is dead when she calls out to him, she turns her children and then herself all irreversably into living trees.
The incantation "Žilvinas, dear Žilvinėlis, If alive – may the sea foam milk, If dead – may the sea foam blood…" has a particularly good overlap into the themes with the Samudra Manthana's Ocean of Milk & Halahala poison, but this tale's location also has a strong overlap to the Dragon Palace from Japanese mythology with the Rip Van Winkle-like tale of Urashima Taro who is invited to the undersea palace after rescuing a turtle and spends a few days with the princess Otohime and is given the Tamatebako to protect him from harm – so long as he never opens it. When he returns to land, he discovers he's been gone for more than a hundred years, and upon opening the box, ages instantly. Another parallel to Pandora's Box with a different lesson, but which helps to frame the context between humans & the draconic passage of time being interconnected to these themes, and the Subterranean lairs that have to be reached via supernatural means (the Sending Gate through the secret Man-Serpent throne room in Volcano Manor, or Lady Tanith sending you there).
This circles around into two elements that we know for certain – The Gloam-Eyed Queen (almost certainly Melina) is bodyless, and her brother Messemer is intertwined with the Serpents that Marika represses and hides away in the Lands of Shadow to disconnect them as her own children. The Serpents became the scapegoat for Erdtree's tool of vengeance & hatred as the Duelists in that attire were driven from the Colosseums, "The snake is viewed as a traitor to the Erdtree, and the audience delighted in seeing these bronze effigies beaten and battered." However, the shed Snake skin outside of Bonny Village where nearby the body of one of the Shaman is growing into a tree speaks that it was the SNAKE who was first betrayed. Even further reinforcing that element is the fact that Enir-Ilim is build from bodies, and the Golden Trees found throughout are ALSO made of things that were once human. Messemer is the force that the Empyrean Grandam in Belurat thinks ill of even as the Tower above is replete with the trees of the once-living. No matter if it's in the Lands Between or the Lands of Shadow – the Serpent is reviled.
This creates a circumstance that mythologically reinforces the role of characters like the Serpent, Satan, & Judas – where the salvation of everyone else is only possible to be facilitated with them acting as a scapegoat and for all of the love to be forever irrevocably turned away from them. Like Messemer, if they draw their definition from that relationship, it's exploring a different avenue of Morgott loving and protecting a kingdom which will never love him in return & Mohg despising and wanting to overthrow a kingdom which will never embrace the accursed Hornsent – but Messemer would burn both of them to death regardless, because that is what his mother willed him to do. However, this betrayal has VERY poetic consequences which is that everyone is turned into trees by being hewn into the Erdtree as the form of immortality, such that that the Serpents are creatures of flame who serve as the kindling to burn them away, no matter how immortal they are. Summoned Spirits are from the ashes of those who didn't return to the Erdtree.
Messemer's Kindling, "The kindling that burned inside Messmer the Impaler. A dark thing, eaten away at by a wicked serpent. Burns the sealing tree said to be found at the old Rauh ruins. Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire." Despite that dark component, the Winged Serpents bound into his body are anything but base & wicked, but rather they are kind & accepting as his Helm states. "Black helm of Messmer the Impaler, crowned with two intertwined winged serpents. Slightly enhances incantations of Messmer's flame as well as Fire Knight skills. The winged snakes were Messmer's constant companions. They were there when the base serpent was sealed away behind his eye. They were there through his eternity of suffering. They will accompany him yet, in his hideous new form, born when he destroyed the grace granted by his mother. They have accepted his fate as much as he." They bear the transformation with dignity & comfort that nothing else would offer even as what they represent and bring about is reviled by ALL.
The base-game's Candletree Wooden Shield is found with the Black Knife Assassin & Necromancer, and its symbolism used pervasively within the Haligtree, "Thought to represent a surreptitious prophecy of cardinal sin, the lit candle-tree design was forbidden." and even the Catch Flame incantation, "Incantation originating from a sinister prophecy. Momentarily sparks flame from the caster's hand. This incantation can be cast without delay after performing another action. The flame of ruin is anathema to the Erdtree. But prophets sometimes glimpse it within the faith all the same. Sadly when this occurs their sole reward is banishment." though The Shattering started to expose some of that hypocrisy with the Perfumer's Spark Aromatic, "Art of the perfumers who fought In the Shattering. Craftable with a perfume bottle. Uses FP to broadly scatter sparks in a wide arc straight ahead. Though fire was prohibited to those who served the Erdtree, this rule was forgotten as the war drew ever on."
This is also why Leyndell's core design has a VERY particular design element that all of the natural lighting in the entire city is NOT from flame. It's from glowing flower petals placed into chandeliers and other candle-holders. The presence of torches & other fire sources are because in 1.0 Leyndell didn't have any resident forces, and it was occupied by the Dragon Communion practicing Exiled Knights who were there to worship Gransax, and those torches all follow specifically where they've gone through the city. This is one of those rather meticulous details that's obfuscated by the changes made for the release version and wasn't fully redesigned so there is some contradiction to its portrayal that doesn't make sense without the original design context.
So, this would suggest that the Serpents were the original source of the Shaman's power to be able to assimilate the flesh of others into themselves, which lead to their persecution at Bonny Village with them being put into Jars to purify the spirits of the convicts and turn them into saints in the form of the Living Jars. This also gives context on why the Godskin Apostles are wearing what appears to be supple human skin, but gaining Serpentine powers akin to the Primordial Crucible. There seems to have been some direct relationship between the Serpent-God & the Shaman, but there was a seduction & betrayal of some kind – something which is EXPLICITLY STATED when speaking about the beginning about how Marika obtained her power at the Gate of Divinity that split things between Gold & Shadow.
And what of the Shaman village where Marika came from?
No one there is alive. The only thing we find is yet again, another person turned into a tree, and the central thing in that place? The location of the Minor Erdtree incantation – a spell that ONLY Melina casts in the base game if you summon her to fight against King Morgott. "Secret incantation of Queen Marika. Only the kindness of gold, without Order. Creates a small, illusory Erdtree that continuously restores the HP of nearby allies. Marika bathed the village of her home in gold, knowing full well that there was no one to heal."
There is a CONSTANT layer of continually obfuscated betrayal & overwriting of history by those in power, with only tiny little elements peeking through to force questions to the perspectives that you're being shown when everything doesn't quite add up. Like the torches in Leyndell, this is oftentime just residual inconsistency of changes in the design decisions that don't fully penetrate to what's been implemented in development just as much as they are at their point of inception something that is at one time deeply & fully understood as an outlying element of the narrative that has its own tiny story often bolstered by an external knowledge of history or local mythology to cultural references that are assimilated & syncretized to make multiple avenues of interpretation valid.
Given that this form of the shed serpent skin only appears at the Temply of Eiglay in Volcano Manor & outside of Bonny Village just beyond where a woman is turned into a tree – I think that that specifically is reason to look at that mythology as an implied element of some of the narrative that we don't see directly between the Snake-God & Erdtree in the conflict that took place between Marika & the Gloam-Eyed Queen that resulted in Destined Death being sealed away.
One other reinforcing detail to this is one of the ONLY remaining pieces of VASTLY different lore from 1.0 which are the Skeletal Militiamen Ashes:
• Release Version: "Ashen remains in which spirits yet dwell. Use to summon the spirits of two skeletal militiamen. These are the spirits of militiamen who live in Death, and will continue to rise again until properly finished off. This is the grotesque fate of those who come into contact with Deathroot."
• 1.0 Version: "Spirit ashes. Summons the spirits of two skeletal men-at-arms from nearby a rebirth monument found throughout the land. (Summoning consumes FP.) Following the Night of Black Knives, fragments of death were strewn throughout the realm, giving birth to those who lived beyond death. This valiant pair of soldiers were touched by a fragment of death while defending their village."
This presents a version of the lore which was VERY different, and where the presence of the Black Flame robbed of its god-slaying powers was much more prevalent. This and Ghostflame weren't really differentiated well, and even Ghostflame didn't get its frostbiting nature until later on. The narrative around this particular purpose of Melina acting as Kindling & being this reflection of Marika also reaches back to elements like Miranda's Prayer & the Flower Crucible as unused items that Melina holds in addition to being able to use the Minor Erdtree incantation that reflect very different forms that the story had interconnected into the flower & butterfly design elements about Marika's children early on.
What I think is MOST interesting is that a Godskin Apostle wielding the Godskin Peeler, surrounded by flame in a temple was one of the VERY first pieces of promotional Concept Art EVER released of Elden Ring, and given that Messemer has the EXACT same overly-elongated physical body proportions directly intertwined with benevolent winged Serpents, those particular mythological elements being about the facilitation of the death of the gods themselves & how to wield that power were parts of the conflict that existed in early moments of the story that were overwritten in multiple forms before we got to the version that exists, but remain such that there are glimpses of that influence still in a way that feels ancient and overwritten – but not forgotten.
Also, thanks for those. Elden Ring's soundtrack is just... so damn good.
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
I had the SotE art books show up today, and got reminded of something I hadn't thought of in a long time when I saw the concept art of Metyr.
In the Lands of Shadow, when looking at the above-ground Finger Ruins that have that big tonal bell/whistle in the center and the fingerprint rippling patterns coming out from it, as well as the way that the massive stone forms of the Fingers bubble and grow out from the liquid of the ruins below Manus Metyr matches to how they continually spawn all over Metyr's body. This central source of a vibration that travels vast distances which Ymir is capable of detecting reminded me of the way that Non-Newtonian Fluids respond to vibrations when they're placed on a speaker... they grow fingers.
While I have no idea whether or not this particular phenomenon was actually an inspiration for why the Two-Fingers are a primary symbol for the game, there is a VERY deep level of interconnecting themes within the base game & DLC that all align extremely well for this, but especially the ways in which the fingers are a bit different here, and which also connect to the early parts of those concepts around Runes that came from Bloodborne as well (which I've mentioned before), so I figured I'd compile all of that while I've got it in the front of my mind:
Lastly, keeping MY fingers crossed for next week when everyone finds out whether or not they got into Nightreign's closed beta test!
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In the Lands of Shadow, when looking at the above-ground Finger Ruins that have that big tonal bell/whistle in the center and the fingerprint rippling patterns coming out from it, as well as the way that the massive stone forms of the Fingers bubble and grow out from the liquid of the ruins below Manus Metyr matches to how they continually spawn all over Metyr's body. This central source of a vibration that travels vast distances which Ymir is capable of detecting reminded me of the way that Non-Newtonian Fluids respond to vibrations when they're placed on a speaker... they grow fingers.
While I have no idea whether or not this particular phenomenon was actually an inspiration for why the Two-Fingers are a primary symbol for the game, there is a VERY deep level of interconnecting themes within the base game & DLC that all align extremely well for this, but especially the ways in which the fingers are a bit different here, and which also connect to the early parts of those concepts around Runes that came from Bloodborne as well (which I've mentioned before), so I figured I'd compile all of that while I've got it in the front of my mind:
The Smithing Talisman states that, "In ancient times, smithing was a divine act, and blacksmiths interpreted the script they perceived in the wrinkles of molten steel to imbue weapons with souls." giving a context to this fingerprint-like pattern as a mark that gives life to things that are inorganic (hence the Smithscript throwing weapons being able to return), as well as the Living Magma that the Smithing Golems are occasionally petting being similar to the non-mimicking form of the Silver Tears – who have started to harden much in the same way that eventually that life fades from the Smithing Golems like Taylew. The Spiritgrave Stones even indicate the manner in which those things fade and how those are associated with an extreme passage of time, "A piece of a gravestone that has started to turn into a spirit. Mainly found on the Gravesite Plain. In places to where the dead have been brought since antiquity, the oldest gravestones turn into spirits and then fade away."
The base game establishes that living beings of non-organic matter were the form of life before the current era in things like the Dragoncrest Talismans, "The ancient dragons, who ruled in the prehistoric era before the Erdtree, would protect their lord as a wall of living rock." and their scales even fall as Gravel Stone, "Such compound stones, found in lands once beset by ancient dragons, are said to be the scales of those very beasts." which starts to give a bit more context to the loss of those scales in the Lesser Dragons, and gets into things like how the biological material that the Lesser Dragons consumes starts to shape the nature of their bodies like the dragons who consume Glinstone Sorcerers, and thus end up turning to consume the Ancient Dragons for their Gravel Stone.
Added to that is how the Primeval Current turns sorcerers' bodies to Glintstone like the Crystalians, as evidenced by the Primal Glintstone Blade talisman, "An old glintstone blade that has been stained with blood. The old sorcerers would slice open their hearts with these blades to imbue a primal glintstone with their soul, and thus did they die." as well as Sellen's Primal Glintstone showing that this isn't just a biological transformation but it's one of their soul as well, "Glintstone from within the sorceress Sellen's body. Seemingly half-alive, blood vessels are visible within. In essence, a primal glintstone is a sorcerer's soul. If transplanted into a compatible new body after their original body dies, the sorcerer will rise again."
The Claymen of the old dynasty & Stonediggers are still forms of this non-organic life similar to the mix of hues that we see in the Fingers, and while the hardness of the Stonediggers' bodies is higher than that of the Crystalians, it's lesser than that of the Primeval Sorcerer's bodies. Similarly, the Alabaster Lords & Onyx Lords also have skin of stone and were brought into being from a meteoric impact per their swords, "Greatsword forged from blue-white/golden-hued meteoric ore. The blade conceals gravity-manipulating magic. A weapon unique to the Alabaster/Onyx Lords, a race of ancients with skin of stone who were said to have risen to life when a meteor struck long ago." which is precisely the same as how Metyr arrives as the FIRST falling star in the Lands Between, "The mother of all Two Fingers and Fingercreepers
was in turn a magnificently gleaming daughter of the Greater Will, and the first shooting star to fall upon the Lands Between." even before the arrival of the Elden Beast brought about the Erdtree, "It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring."
This would have signified the ending the age of the Ancient Dragons and the cessation of Dragonlord Placidusax's rule, "The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return." though it doesn't detail what else happened with who his god was who fled or the deeper conflict that around around the time of the Ancient Dragons and their bitter feud with the Lesser Dragons that lead to the conflict with Bayle. This also places particular emphasis on that sort of inorganic immortality as being an absence of humanity as the Rock Heart shows a human turning to stone, "The last thing the partaker saw with human eyes was a sunset, its colors faded and tarnished—a remote thing from eternity." whereas the more organic Priestess Heart shows an Ancient Dragon becoming more human, "The priestess was once an ancient dragon herself, but sacrificed that form for feeble flesh to aid in the destruction of Bayle the Dread." with the Dragonbolt of Florissax further emphasizing, "There was a time when the priestess never knew love, and thus never used this incantation herself." making a juxtaposition between her relationship with Placidusax being a matter of the loyalty & honor rather than love (thanks to Dragonheart for inspiring a lot of that mythological foundation in the Drakengard series before it became a Souls staple).
This brings us back to the transition of the relationship from one age to the next in rule over the world between the Dragons & Humans in the form of Fingers, as the Ancient Dragons have an additional finger that emerges from their wrist. That symbolism is explained in the Cinquedea, "The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind." as this is what differentiates the five-fingered Beastmen of Farum Azula like Gurranq from the four-fingered Demi-Humans who still go feral at night, and even the Demi-Human Queen's Staff capable of the intelligence necessary for Sorcery notes her lower intelligence compared to Humans, "Glintstone staff styled as a scepter. A gift once given to the demi-humans to foster peace, it can be wielded even by those of low intelligence. Sneered at by fools in the academy." The Demi-Humans cower in fear if their mother/Queen is killed and then become disorganized, hence why Kenneth Haight struggles in maintaining peace with them in Limgrave but understand the nature of their kind. The sole exception being Boc who is abused and mistreated by them for his gentle and intelligent nature as a seamster, and whose mother is also dead – once again making a parallel to the role of the maternal figure that Metyr & Marika both serve in connection to the Stars.
The Primeval Current in the Sorcery Founding Rain of Stars describes the arrival of these sorts of changes coming from beyond, "The eldest primeval sorcery, said to have been discovered by an ancient astrologer. A sorcery of legendary status. Summons a dark cloud of stars overhead. Shortly after, the cloud will release a violent deluge of star rain. Thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery. The glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land." and this is in line with what we learn of Primeval Sorcery from Sellen, "Our powers draw upon the powers embedded in glintstone, but what is the nature of such power? Glintstone is the amber of the cosmos, golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life and houses its vitality, while Glintstone contains residual life. And thus, the vitality of the stars. It should not be forgotten that glintstone sorcery is the study of the stars and the life therein." and that she expands upon during her questline, "Do you recall what I once told you? That glintstone is the amber of the cosmos, and sorcery is the study of the stars, and the life therein. When you become Elden Lord, please illuminate me. Lay bare the secrets of life which course the Elden Ring. Next time, I will be your student." and which Count Ymir expands upon in relation to the Fingers, "I, too, am a glintstone sorcerer. We study the stars, and examine the life therein. Are you familiar with our findings? Long ago, we began as stardust, born of a great rupture far across the skies. We, too, are children of the Greater Will. Is that not divine? Is that not sublime? ...and yet, none can fathom its implications, its utter brilliance!"
Ymir continues this through-line and describes an inherent flaw in the very nature of the world itself, "I fear that you have borne witness to the whole of it. The conceits – the hypocrisy – of the world built upon the Erdtree. The follies of men. Their bitter suffering. Is there no hope for redemption? The answer, sadly, is clear. There never was any hope. They were each of them defective. Unhinged, from the start. Marika herself. And the fingers that guided her. And this is what troubles me. No matter our efforts, if the roots are rotten, …then we have little recourse." "Do you recall what I said? That Marika, and the fingers that guided her, were unsound from the start. Well, the truth lies deeper still. It is their mother who is damaged and unhinged. The fingers are but unripe children. Victims in their own right. We all need a mother, do we not? A new mother, a true mother, who will not give birth to further malady." This echoes the doubts that we hear very early on from White Mask Varré if you mention that the Two Fingers in the Roundtable Hold didn't seem right, "Ah-ha, your intuition serves you well. My doubts had been piling up, you see… The words of the Two Fingers cannot be trusted. Truly, naught but rambling, senile delusions. I believe, that when the Elden Ring was shattered, the Two Fingers were corrupted, their guidance; skewed. Even worse, the Fingers harbor no love for our kind. That's the part that irks the most."
This links to why Ymir's Questline is to become a Mother of Fingers, and adds a detail to Sellen's quest being the aim to revive study of the Primeval Current in how the Hermit Village which occupied by Demi-Humans is where you will discover the Glintstone Crown of Errant Sorcerer Wilhelm friend of Vargram the Raging Wolf. That little village is important not only because Wilhelm studied the Primeval Current, but that another sorcerer there can be seen attempting to teach sorcery to the Demi-Humans, and several others guard Azur's body along with Demi-Human Queen Maggie. It is in this same village where the voice of Boc's Mother is embedded into clay, "Twisted clay sculpt in the shape of a demi-human head. Emits a voice that says, 'You're beautiful.' A wistful fetish that imparts voices and words on an eternal journey. Unconditional love. Unrestrained assurance. It must have been a mother speaking."
That is a necessary item which will keep Boc from judging his own physical form and asking for a Larval Tear so that he can be reborn into a fleeting new form by Rennala's Amber Egg – which will lead to his death shortly thereafter. In the base game Larval Tears are described as, "Core of a creature of Mimicry known as a Silver Tear as much a substance as it is a living organism." whereas the ones in the Lands of Shadow are instead, "An exceptionally rare creature that burgeons from spiritgraves and lives only a fleeting existence. Neither flesh nor spirit, but something in between." giving even more context to this nature of embedding life directly into un-living matter, and allowing it to take the form of something living. – Thus bringing everything back full circle to these design elements for the Fingers who communicate not through words, but only through strange undulations & movements guided by the vibrations of the otherworldly tone of a cosmic will acting through Marika & Metyr to form the foundation of the religion in the Lands Between. The Two-Fingers gesture found in the Lands of Shadow between Marika's home & the golden Finger Ruins of Dheo, and the Two Fingers Talisman stating, "A talisman engraved with the legend of the Two Fingers. Fingers cannot speak, yet these are eloquent. Persistently they wriggle, spelling out mysteries in the air. Thus did we gain the words. The words of our faith."
Bloodborne's Pearl Slugs represent the interaction of the Great Ones, "Of the all the strange lifeforms that reside in the nooks and crannies of the old labyrinth, the slugs are clear signs of the left-behind Great Ones." and they leave behind Phantasm Shells. Mother Kos' body was teeming with parasites, and the Kos Parasite specifically stimulates the movement of those Phantasms within a Lumenwood (this having a rather complex translation overlap with Stars & the Erdtree that I went over in an earlier post). This is what points to the Leucochloridium paradoxum parasite in slugs, as foundation for all of the Eyes/Runes & cyclical parasitism symbolism in Elden Ring that is also heavily linked into the appearance of the Two Fingers, especially on the Divine Towers with their seemingly wooden corpses as they have to die for that parasite to be passed on – which is true of the hosts of all the Great Runes, and needing to go to the corpse to find them – but the fact that Ranni's corpse is found there while her VERY biologically flesh & blood Two-Fingers are found below the Cathedral of Manus Celes has strong echoes of what Manus Metyr shows, and links those same themes to the Primeval Current.
This twisting twin form being variably organic & more complex is seen in the Fingerslayer Blade Ranni uses to slay her Two Fingers, which is made of a corpse in the Eternal City just as the Sacred Relic Sword was made of the body of Marika/Radagon, emphasizing something about this nature between organic & inorganic matter in this form being used to slay gods hence the Elden Beast wielding it against you, and the same form is used in Vargram's Godslayer Greatsword. That same shape is used with Ymir's Maternal Staff as well as the Staff of the Great Beyond, "Staff fashioned from the tail-fingers of Metyr, the Mother of Fingers, and the microcosm raised aloft over the crux they form. Catalyst for casting both sorceries and incantations. The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come." which points to this as a transmitting conduit for a signal from the Greater Will, with the ocular star at its center looking the same as the Runes found throughout the game. The most potent version of an ocular Rune design is seen in the chest of the Fire Giant, which mirrors the swirling of the Troll's Hammer, "Mining tool of stonedigger trolls used to crack bedrock. Trolls are descended from the giants, and these were supposedly once used as ceremonial smithing tools. In the distant past, smithing was considered divine." again reinforcing a theme that Shadow of the Erdtree emphasizes in giving life to non-living matter as an ancient divinity.
The Caryll Runes in Bloodborne are the transcription of the inhuman sounds of the Great Ones into a physical form that embeds that concept into the mind of a Hunter. Similarly, the Elden Beast, "It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order." The Elden Ring that symbolized the Golden Order is a Rune just the same, and one which represents this same sort of cosmic vibration in the form of the communication from an outer god imparting their will upon everything else. This non-newtonian fluid vibration is the clearest overlapping design link to the undulating movement of the eyestalks of Leucochloridium paradoxum that I've found which not ONLY has parallel thematic ties to manipulation by an external actor, but which ALSO applies to non-biological materials – which ties everything together with the massive frozen stone fingers we find all throughout the Lands of Shadow's Finger Ruins, which are utterly distinct from their purely wooden/flesh forms in the Lands Between.
A final note for some other links:
While there's also some additional overlap with things like the Divine Towers' meteorite-embedded forms all having a twisting mass of raw, unshaped stone around them, how the Divine Tower in Belurat's hewn stone crumbles apart into living bodies which directly interconnects to the whole form of the Divine Gateway being a mass of living beings seemingly petrified, as well as the nature of Marika & her people being able to synthesize their bodies with other organic material and being fused into trees & jars (similar to the nature of the Lesser Dragons & Dragon Cult being practiced by the worshippers of the Erdtree while Communion of eating hearts was shunned) – those links are a bit limited to more loose surface-level elements that interconnect to the same fusion & parasitism themes. I haven't put the same time into those as they're a bit more messy to try and unpack, since there's still a lot about the Hornsent religious practices of the Tower being a tumultuous historical midpoint between the ancient times & current era of the Erdtree as compared to something like the Primeval Current vs. modern Sorcery of Raya Lucaria having a clear link to the Fingers thanks to Sellen & Ymir.
The mythology of the beginning of the flaws with Marika being directly interconnected to Metyr from what Ymir speaks about is what provides THE most directly concrete element to help link those together even while there's a lot of parallel themes and overlapping implications. Without something like that, it's hard to tell how much of anything with the Fingers was an influence on the Spiral as the religion of the Tower before Marika, as while a lot of the trees that they keep have this same basic form, it's hard to tell how much of those are something that become the foundation of concepts that are more interconnected to the Omen Horns or sacrificial practices with the shaman, and how many things were connected to the Scadutree/Erdtree – which is thanks to the directly acknowledged syncretism between both religions in the Spiraltree Seal, "The majesty of the white tower, stretching to reach the gods, even inspired a secret faith in the invaders, the people of the Erdtree."
As such, I don't expect that there's too much about those things that I'll be able to extract as clearly as I can with most of the other details, but I still felt it was worth noting that there is some more to that history, and that one of the things I haven't had time to poke around at are the ancient structures in the Finger Ruins which seem to have a similar design as the Altars for the Stone-Sheathed Sword, "A sword that none can pull from its scabbard of cracked stone. Relic of a lost civilization from a time long past, said to have served a ritual purpose at altars of light and darkness." It can be transformed between the Sword of Light & Sword of Darkness, and while there may be some overlaps with that, I didn't end up wandering into those areas today when I was looking back over things. I felt it was at least worth pointing to, as they have a similar dichotomy of existential themes of a Yin & Yang as a spiritual force being formed directly from inanimate stone that feels a bit like the other god-slaying blades & ancient divinity of smithing, especially as the Darkness is a holy resistance debuff & the Light is a holy damage buff that carry those themes separately rather than being intertwined & sharing the same designs directly around making gods more vulnerable to the types of things that they would typically be resilient towards.
So, while those other elements still generally match, it takes a lot more interconnecting steps to reach them because it's wrapped up in what's much more of a fragmented & only partially retained history. As such they're good overall themes, but they take a lot of additional work to dig those connections out of them, and aren't NEARLY as neatly presented by what the game gives as the other things I covered – which is what makes those other elements of the story interesting for OTHER reasons.
The base game establishes that living beings of non-organic matter were the form of life before the current era in things like the Dragoncrest Talismans, "The ancient dragons, who ruled in the prehistoric era before the Erdtree, would protect their lord as a wall of living rock." and their scales even fall as Gravel Stone, "Such compound stones, found in lands once beset by ancient dragons, are said to be the scales of those very beasts." which starts to give a bit more context to the loss of those scales in the Lesser Dragons, and gets into things like how the biological material that the Lesser Dragons consumes starts to shape the nature of their bodies like the dragons who consume Glinstone Sorcerers, and thus end up turning to consume the Ancient Dragons for their Gravel Stone.
Added to that is how the Primeval Current turns sorcerers' bodies to Glintstone like the Crystalians, as evidenced by the Primal Glintstone Blade talisman, "An old glintstone blade that has been stained with blood. The old sorcerers would slice open their hearts with these blades to imbue a primal glintstone with their soul, and thus did they die." as well as Sellen's Primal Glintstone showing that this isn't just a biological transformation but it's one of their soul as well, "Glintstone from within the sorceress Sellen's body. Seemingly half-alive, blood vessels are visible within. In essence, a primal glintstone is a sorcerer's soul. If transplanted into a compatible new body after their original body dies, the sorcerer will rise again."
The Claymen of the old dynasty & Stonediggers are still forms of this non-organic life similar to the mix of hues that we see in the Fingers, and while the hardness of the Stonediggers' bodies is higher than that of the Crystalians, it's lesser than that of the Primeval Sorcerer's bodies. Similarly, the Alabaster Lords & Onyx Lords also have skin of stone and were brought into being from a meteoric impact per their swords, "Greatsword forged from blue-white/golden-hued meteoric ore. The blade conceals gravity-manipulating magic. A weapon unique to the Alabaster/Onyx Lords, a race of ancients with skin of stone who were said to have risen to life when a meteor struck long ago." which is precisely the same as how Metyr arrives as the FIRST falling star in the Lands Between, "The mother of all Two Fingers and Fingercreepers
was in turn a magnificently gleaming daughter of the Greater Will, and the first shooting star to fall upon the Lands Between." even before the arrival of the Elden Beast brought about the Erdtree, "It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring."
This would have signified the ending the age of the Ancient Dragons and the cessation of Dragonlord Placidusax's rule, "The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return." though it doesn't detail what else happened with who his god was who fled or the deeper conflict that around around the time of the Ancient Dragons and their bitter feud with the Lesser Dragons that lead to the conflict with Bayle. This also places particular emphasis on that sort of inorganic immortality as being an absence of humanity as the Rock Heart shows a human turning to stone, "The last thing the partaker saw with human eyes was a sunset, its colors faded and tarnished—a remote thing from eternity." whereas the more organic Priestess Heart shows an Ancient Dragon becoming more human, "The priestess was once an ancient dragon herself, but sacrificed that form for feeble flesh to aid in the destruction of Bayle the Dread." with the Dragonbolt of Florissax further emphasizing, "There was a time when the priestess never knew love, and thus never used this incantation herself." making a juxtaposition between her relationship with Placidusax being a matter of the loyalty & honor rather than love (thanks to Dragonheart for inspiring a lot of that mythological foundation in the Drakengard series before it became a Souls staple).
This brings us back to the transition of the relationship from one age to the next in rule over the world between the Dragons & Humans in the form of Fingers, as the Ancient Dragons have an additional finger that emerges from their wrist. That symbolism is explained in the Cinquedea, "The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind." as this is what differentiates the five-fingered Beastmen of Farum Azula like Gurranq from the four-fingered Demi-Humans who still go feral at night, and even the Demi-Human Queen's Staff capable of the intelligence necessary for Sorcery notes her lower intelligence compared to Humans, "Glintstone staff styled as a scepter. A gift once given to the demi-humans to foster peace, it can be wielded even by those of low intelligence. Sneered at by fools in the academy." The Demi-Humans cower in fear if their mother/Queen is killed and then become disorganized, hence why Kenneth Haight struggles in maintaining peace with them in Limgrave but understand the nature of their kind. The sole exception being Boc who is abused and mistreated by them for his gentle and intelligent nature as a seamster, and whose mother is also dead – once again making a parallel to the role of the maternal figure that Metyr & Marika both serve in connection to the Stars.
The Primeval Current in the Sorcery Founding Rain of Stars describes the arrival of these sorts of changes coming from beyond, "The eldest primeval sorcery, said to have been discovered by an ancient astrologer. A sorcery of legendary status. Summons a dark cloud of stars overhead. Shortly after, the cloud will release a violent deluge of star rain. Thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery. The glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land." and this is in line with what we learn of Primeval Sorcery from Sellen, "Our powers draw upon the powers embedded in glintstone, but what is the nature of such power? Glintstone is the amber of the cosmos, golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life and houses its vitality, while Glintstone contains residual life. And thus, the vitality of the stars. It should not be forgotten that glintstone sorcery is the study of the stars and the life therein." and that she expands upon during her questline, "Do you recall what I once told you? That glintstone is the amber of the cosmos, and sorcery is the study of the stars, and the life therein. When you become Elden Lord, please illuminate me. Lay bare the secrets of life which course the Elden Ring. Next time, I will be your student." and which Count Ymir expands upon in relation to the Fingers, "I, too, am a glintstone sorcerer. We study the stars, and examine the life therein. Are you familiar with our findings? Long ago, we began as stardust, born of a great rupture far across the skies. We, too, are children of the Greater Will. Is that not divine? Is that not sublime? ...and yet, none can fathom its implications, its utter brilliance!"
Ymir continues this through-line and describes an inherent flaw in the very nature of the world itself, "I fear that you have borne witness to the whole of it. The conceits – the hypocrisy – of the world built upon the Erdtree. The follies of men. Their bitter suffering. Is there no hope for redemption? The answer, sadly, is clear. There never was any hope. They were each of them defective. Unhinged, from the start. Marika herself. And the fingers that guided her. And this is what troubles me. No matter our efforts, if the roots are rotten, …then we have little recourse." "Do you recall what I said? That Marika, and the fingers that guided her, were unsound from the start. Well, the truth lies deeper still. It is their mother who is damaged and unhinged. The fingers are but unripe children. Victims in their own right. We all need a mother, do we not? A new mother, a true mother, who will not give birth to further malady." This echoes the doubts that we hear very early on from White Mask Varré if you mention that the Two Fingers in the Roundtable Hold didn't seem right, "Ah-ha, your intuition serves you well. My doubts had been piling up, you see… The words of the Two Fingers cannot be trusted. Truly, naught but rambling, senile delusions. I believe, that when the Elden Ring was shattered, the Two Fingers were corrupted, their guidance; skewed. Even worse, the Fingers harbor no love for our kind. That's the part that irks the most."
This links to why Ymir's Questline is to become a Mother of Fingers, and adds a detail to Sellen's quest being the aim to revive study of the Primeval Current in how the Hermit Village which occupied by Demi-Humans is where you will discover the Glintstone Crown of Errant Sorcerer Wilhelm friend of Vargram the Raging Wolf. That little village is important not only because Wilhelm studied the Primeval Current, but that another sorcerer there can be seen attempting to teach sorcery to the Demi-Humans, and several others guard Azur's body along with Demi-Human Queen Maggie. It is in this same village where the voice of Boc's Mother is embedded into clay, "Twisted clay sculpt in the shape of a demi-human head. Emits a voice that says, 'You're beautiful.' A wistful fetish that imparts voices and words on an eternal journey. Unconditional love. Unrestrained assurance. It must have been a mother speaking."
That is a necessary item which will keep Boc from judging his own physical form and asking for a Larval Tear so that he can be reborn into a fleeting new form by Rennala's Amber Egg – which will lead to his death shortly thereafter. In the base game Larval Tears are described as, "Core of a creature of Mimicry known as a Silver Tear as much a substance as it is a living organism." whereas the ones in the Lands of Shadow are instead, "An exceptionally rare creature that burgeons from spiritgraves and lives only a fleeting existence. Neither flesh nor spirit, but something in between." giving even more context to this nature of embedding life directly into un-living matter, and allowing it to take the form of something living. – Thus bringing everything back full circle to these design elements for the Fingers who communicate not through words, but only through strange undulations & movements guided by the vibrations of the otherworldly tone of a cosmic will acting through Marika & Metyr to form the foundation of the religion in the Lands Between. The Two-Fingers gesture found in the Lands of Shadow between Marika's home & the golden Finger Ruins of Dheo, and the Two Fingers Talisman stating, "A talisman engraved with the legend of the Two Fingers. Fingers cannot speak, yet these are eloquent. Persistently they wriggle, spelling out mysteries in the air. Thus did we gain the words. The words of our faith."
Bloodborne's Pearl Slugs represent the interaction of the Great Ones, "Of the all the strange lifeforms that reside in the nooks and crannies of the old labyrinth, the slugs are clear signs of the left-behind Great Ones." and they leave behind Phantasm Shells. Mother Kos' body was teeming with parasites, and the Kos Parasite specifically stimulates the movement of those Phantasms within a Lumenwood (this having a rather complex translation overlap with Stars & the Erdtree that I went over in an earlier post). This is what points to the Leucochloridium paradoxum parasite in slugs, as foundation for all of the Eyes/Runes & cyclical parasitism symbolism in Elden Ring that is also heavily linked into the appearance of the Two Fingers, especially on the Divine Towers with their seemingly wooden corpses as they have to die for that parasite to be passed on – which is true of the hosts of all the Great Runes, and needing to go to the corpse to find them – but the fact that Ranni's corpse is found there while her VERY biologically flesh & blood Two-Fingers are found below the Cathedral of Manus Celes has strong echoes of what Manus Metyr shows, and links those same themes to the Primeval Current.
This twisting twin form being variably organic & more complex is seen in the Fingerslayer Blade Ranni uses to slay her Two Fingers, which is made of a corpse in the Eternal City just as the Sacred Relic Sword was made of the body of Marika/Radagon, emphasizing something about this nature between organic & inorganic matter in this form being used to slay gods hence the Elden Beast wielding it against you, and the same form is used in Vargram's Godslayer Greatsword. That same shape is used with Ymir's Maternal Staff as well as the Staff of the Great Beyond, "Staff fashioned from the tail-fingers of Metyr, the Mother of Fingers, and the microcosm raised aloft over the crux they form. Catalyst for casting both sorceries and incantations. The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come." which points to this as a transmitting conduit for a signal from the Greater Will, with the ocular star at its center looking the same as the Runes found throughout the game. The most potent version of an ocular Rune design is seen in the chest of the Fire Giant, which mirrors the swirling of the Troll's Hammer, "Mining tool of stonedigger trolls used to crack bedrock. Trolls are descended from the giants, and these were supposedly once used as ceremonial smithing tools. In the distant past, smithing was considered divine." again reinforcing a theme that Shadow of the Erdtree emphasizes in giving life to non-living matter as an ancient divinity.
The Caryll Runes in Bloodborne are the transcription of the inhuman sounds of the Great Ones into a physical form that embeds that concept into the mind of a Hunter. Similarly, the Elden Beast, "It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order." The Elden Ring that symbolized the Golden Order is a Rune just the same, and one which represents this same sort of cosmic vibration in the form of the communication from an outer god imparting their will upon everything else. This non-newtonian fluid vibration is the clearest overlapping design link to the undulating movement of the eyestalks of Leucochloridium paradoxum that I've found which not ONLY has parallel thematic ties to manipulation by an external actor, but which ALSO applies to non-biological materials – which ties everything together with the massive frozen stone fingers we find all throughout the Lands of Shadow's Finger Ruins, which are utterly distinct from their purely wooden/flesh forms in the Lands Between.
A final note for some other links:
While there's also some additional overlap with things like the Divine Towers' meteorite-embedded forms all having a twisting mass of raw, unshaped stone around them, how the Divine Tower in Belurat's hewn stone crumbles apart into living bodies which directly interconnects to the whole form of the Divine Gateway being a mass of living beings seemingly petrified, as well as the nature of Marika & her people being able to synthesize their bodies with other organic material and being fused into trees & jars (similar to the nature of the Lesser Dragons & Dragon Cult being practiced by the worshippers of the Erdtree while Communion of eating hearts was shunned) – those links are a bit limited to more loose surface-level elements that interconnect to the same fusion & parasitism themes. I haven't put the same time into those as they're a bit more messy to try and unpack, since there's still a lot about the Hornsent religious practices of the Tower being a tumultuous historical midpoint between the ancient times & current era of the Erdtree as compared to something like the Primeval Current vs. modern Sorcery of Raya Lucaria having a clear link to the Fingers thanks to Sellen & Ymir.
The mythology of the beginning of the flaws with Marika being directly interconnected to Metyr from what Ymir speaks about is what provides THE most directly concrete element to help link those together even while there's a lot of parallel themes and overlapping implications. Without something like that, it's hard to tell how much of anything with the Fingers was an influence on the Spiral as the religion of the Tower before Marika, as while a lot of the trees that they keep have this same basic form, it's hard to tell how much of those are something that become the foundation of concepts that are more interconnected to the Omen Horns or sacrificial practices with the shaman, and how many things were connected to the Scadutree/Erdtree – which is thanks to the directly acknowledged syncretism between both religions in the Spiraltree Seal, "The majesty of the white tower, stretching to reach the gods, even inspired a secret faith in the invaders, the people of the Erdtree."
As such, I don't expect that there's too much about those things that I'll be able to extract as clearly as I can with most of the other details, but I still felt it was worth noting that there is some more to that history, and that one of the things I haven't had time to poke around at are the ancient structures in the Finger Ruins which seem to have a similar design as the Altars for the Stone-Sheathed Sword, "A sword that none can pull from its scabbard of cracked stone. Relic of a lost civilization from a time long past, said to have served a ritual purpose at altars of light and darkness." It can be transformed between the Sword of Light & Sword of Darkness, and while there may be some overlaps with that, I didn't end up wandering into those areas today when I was looking back over things. I felt it was at least worth pointing to, as they have a similar dichotomy of existential themes of a Yin & Yang as a spiritual force being formed directly from inanimate stone that feels a bit like the other god-slaying blades & ancient divinity of smithing, especially as the Darkness is a holy resistance debuff & the Light is a holy damage buff that carry those themes separately rather than being intertwined & sharing the same designs directly around making gods more vulnerable to the types of things that they would typically be resilient towards.
So, while those other elements still generally match, it takes a lot more interconnecting steps to reach them because it's wrapped up in what's much more of a fragmented & only partially retained history. As such they're good overall themes, but they take a lot of additional work to dig those connections out of them, and aren't NEARLY as neatly presented by what the game gives as the other things I covered – which is what makes those other elements of the story interesting for OTHER reasons.
Lastly, keeping MY fingers crossed for next week when everyone finds out whether or not they got into Nightreign's closed beta test!
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Got my Redeem code for the Nightreign Network Test today!!
Initially I couldn't redeem it because it wasn't valid for my region, which reminded me that PSN accounts are perma-region locked. So, I went and set up a new EU-based PSN account to grab access to the store. That took a bit, but I managed to get that all validated, redeeming it worked this time, downloaded it, then swapped over to my actual account – ...that all worked brilliantly and I could start it up!
The only caveat to my plan is that the PS5 demo itself is hard blocked from any type of console screen recording/sharing, meaning that the only people who'll be able to stream the Test Sessions are people with external capture who most likely stream for a living. So, the number of active Nightreign streams during any of those windows are gonna be much MUCH smaller than the limited number of people who got access to Closed Network Test. While that doesn't impact me immediately, not being able to watch my own footage is too bad – and knowing that there won't be nearly as much footage of various player experiences to check out to sate the urge to be able to play again once the Closed Network Test ends is something that'll probably make the wait for the full release feel extra long.
As that also means that I'll have to rely on memory for recounting my experiences, and... that's not my strong suit these days, I'll try to drop in my thoughts about each of the test sessions into this thread after they start on Friday (though given that a couple of them run from 4am-7am, I'm not sure whether I'll do that immediately, or after I wake up since I usually go to sleep around 3-4am)
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Initially I couldn't redeem it because it wasn't valid for my region, which reminded me that PSN accounts are perma-region locked. So, I went and set up a new EU-based PSN account to grab access to the store. That took a bit, but I managed to get that all validated, redeeming it worked this time, downloaded it, then swapped over to my actual account – ...that all worked brilliantly and I could start it up!
The only caveat to my plan is that the PS5 demo itself is hard blocked from any type of console screen recording/sharing, meaning that the only people who'll be able to stream the Test Sessions are people with external capture who most likely stream for a living. So, the number of active Nightreign streams during any of those windows are gonna be much MUCH smaller than the limited number of people who got access to Closed Network Test. While that doesn't impact me immediately, not being able to watch my own footage is too bad – and knowing that there won't be nearly as much footage of various player experiences to check out to sate the urge to be able to play again once the Closed Network Test ends is something that'll probably make the wait for the full release feel extra long.
As that also means that I'll have to rely on memory for recounting my experiences, and... that's not my strong suit these days, I'll try to drop in my thoughts about each of the test sessions into this thread after they start on Friday (though given that a couple of them run from 4am-7am, I'm not sure whether I'll do that immediately, or after I wake up since I usually go to sleep around 3-4am)
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Release Date officially announced – May 30th!!
Regular/digital versions can be preordered wherever, and the Deluxe editions won't be up in the Bandai Namco store until April 'cause of digital rennovations. Some official gameplay (without HUD) is up from Famitsu as well.
Bandai Namco also put up a Starter Guide & Gameplay Guide that're neat to look over.
The most interesting things control-wise are that Items got swapped over to Up on the D-Pad, while Down cycles through them. Character Skill & Ultimate are Triangle+L2/R2 respectively (replacing duplicate control for weapon swapping from one-handed to two-handed). Map controls are a bit different, and the images of the Menus are all sleeker and trimmed down. It looks like there're only Healing Flasks, so not quite sure how FP management works, and assumedly Magic is tied to an individual staff now?
Related: the four playable Nightfarers in the Network Test are:
• Wylder (Grappling Hook Knight)
• Guardian (Heavy Shield Halberd Bird)
• Recluse (Big Hat Mage Lady)
• Duchess (Time Twisting Miss Bloodborne)
Aside from that, everything else seems pretty straightforward. The Roundtable hold having a practice area to test out characters & abilities outside of a run is a really nice touch. Lookin' forward to giving it a go in a couple of days.
X
Regular/digital versions can be preordered wherever, and the Deluxe editions won't be up in the Bandai Namco store until April 'cause of digital rennovations. Some official gameplay (without HUD) is up from Famitsu as well.
Bandai Namco also put up a Starter Guide & Gameplay Guide that're neat to look over.
The most interesting things control-wise are that Items got swapped over to Up on the D-Pad, while Down cycles through them. Character Skill & Ultimate are Triangle+L2/R2 respectively (replacing duplicate control for weapon swapping from one-handed to two-handed). Map controls are a bit different, and the images of the Menus are all sleeker and trimmed down. It looks like there're only Healing Flasks, so not quite sure how FP management works, and assumedly Magic is tied to an individual staff now?
Related: the four playable Nightfarers in the Network Test are:
• Wylder (Grappling Hook Knight)
• Guardian (Heavy Shield Halberd Bird)
• Recluse (Big Hat Mage Lady)
• Duchess (Time Twisting Miss Bloodborne)
Aside from that, everything else seems pretty straightforward. The Roundtable hold having a practice area to test out characters & abilities outside of a run is a really nice touch. Lookin' forward to giving it a go in a couple of days.
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
The Japanese Playstation blog article has some info about FP restoration, and it looks like FP is a VERY precious resource. (It's very much worth going through that one, since unfortunately the English PlayStation blog doesn't currently have any of this info yet).
Apparently you can recover FP by using certain Items or touching a Grace, but it's specifically difficult thus making Weapon Skills, Magic, & Incantations something that are something that's only used when it's essential. However, the "Recluse" character being a dedicated mage apparently has some abilities that allow them to restore FP – so it'll be interesting to try them out and see exactly how that works. Luckily they played all four & have some info on how that works in all the individual character breakdowns, and it seems like all the different character feel very different to play and are a ton of fun. Some brief mentions:
• Wylder apparently has really good survivability in aggressive CQC and an ability to stagger even big bosses really effectively.
• Guardian has a lot of stamina, can draw aggro, deal guard counters, break apart swarms as well as protect & rapidly revive allies.
• Recluse has ways to coordinate different elemental damage to trigger huge magic attacks, and make enemies take increased damage while hits dealt restore the attackers' HP & FP
• Duchess is agile, her ability to re-trigger damage can make big hits just incredible, and her stealth is apparently just utterly incredible.
(Honestly, it's worth reading the whole overview because the nuances to them all sound AWESOME).
Another interesting point that's brought up is that the Bow & Crossbow ammunition is unlimited – which makes sense given the way it's streamlined and that there's a dedicated Archer character (albeit not in the Network Test build, but who's crouching in the screenshot that the promo producer Yasuhiro Kitao showed the other day).
So given what we've heard & seen in the reveal trailer, it looks like we know at least something about the other 4:
• Archer
• Spirit Summoner
• Parry/Deflect
• Barbarian/Heavy Weapons
Given how well they've rounded out the 4 here in the Network Test, and that it's gonna be out at the end of May, I'm curious when we'll get a bit more information on the other 4. On that note, it's worth mentioning their plan for content overall.
Thankfully they reiterate that it's not got any plans for being anything like a live service or having paid content within the game, but that balance patches and things like that are expected as usual. That being said – they are considering DLC and want to be able to deliver new characters & bosses within fiscal year (by March 2026). However they go about it, I am glad that it's not as a Live Service thing – which is SUCH a good call on their part.
In that article, it also mentions that ALL the weapons are from Elden Ring & along with the 8 unique character weapons. While there're enemies from Shadow of the Erdtree, none of the weapons from that are included currently. I expect that this is likely because both SotE & Nightreign had some degree of concurrent development, and so everything they worked off of was likely based off of the final balance patch in Elden Ring, so that Nightreign has a well-tested baseline for its equipment – especially since it works fairly differently within this game with no weight & also having passives, you need to have the gear already be basically Dev Complete. (I'd expect it's possible that the SotE weapons may end up being one of the things that they want to include later on as they add in bosses & other characters).
For Single-Player they've done a sort of "reverse scaling" from how everything's built & balanced for the standard 3-person team (it's like how calling in cooperators in Souls games typically scale up the boss HP for each added player but in reverse). While that DOES allow for Nightreign to be an experience that doesn't force it to always be online or be mutliplayer – even with the scaling to a Single-Player mode, it's still going to be significantly difficult going at it Solo, because bosses like the three-headed Red Wolf boss will still split into 3 different bodies since they're designed to be a group effort.
The Souls community being what it is, and the runs having drops that are procedurally generated, I can't WAIT to see the ridiculous challenges that some of the hardcore Solo players decide to take on with this – speaking of which:
It also notes that the returning bosses' attack timings are NOT the same as any of the games they're from – so that while you'll likely recognize and be able to anticipate what moves familiar enemies will use, you still have to learn everything from experiencing it first-hand. So, even if you're a FromSoft veteran – you won't have an automatic way to breeze through everything with muscle memory – and this includes the Elden Ring bosses as well.
That's a really neat way to level the playing field and make it so that things are familiar, but also new. I'm sure I'll end up getting caught out by timings a bunch because of that, but that oddly makes me excited to re-learn bosses again, which itself is a big draw to the game. Keeping my fingers crossed things go smoothly.
Given that there are 5 test sessions – I think I'm gonna try to stick to one character for each play session, so that I can get as much time into learning them as I can. Then that'll let me spend the last day getting to try out whoever I want based on a well-rounded experience with everyone, as well as allowing for any potential issues breaking things during one of them.
I may end up shifting away from that if I end up getting absolutely steamrolled with one of the characters. Given that the 3-Day-Cycles apparently run about 35-40 mins, I'm figuring that I'll end up doing about 6 or so runs (since I very much doubt I'll end up getting all the way through early on, plus I know I'll be checking out the various features of the game and Roundtable Hold & whatnot as well). Trying to get all this into my head so that I can figure out who to start out with.
X
Apparently you can recover FP by using certain Items or touching a Grace, but it's specifically difficult thus making Weapon Skills, Magic, & Incantations something that are something that's only used when it's essential. However, the "Recluse" character being a dedicated mage apparently has some abilities that allow them to restore FP – so it'll be interesting to try them out and see exactly how that works. Luckily they played all four & have some info on how that works in all the individual character breakdowns, and it seems like all the different character feel very different to play and are a ton of fun. Some brief mentions:
• Wylder apparently has really good survivability in aggressive CQC and an ability to stagger even big bosses really effectively.
• Guardian has a lot of stamina, can draw aggro, deal guard counters, break apart swarms as well as protect & rapidly revive allies.
• Recluse has ways to coordinate different elemental damage to trigger huge magic attacks, and make enemies take increased damage while hits dealt restore the attackers' HP & FP
• Duchess is agile, her ability to re-trigger damage can make big hits just incredible, and her stealth is apparently just utterly incredible.
(Honestly, it's worth reading the whole overview because the nuances to them all sound AWESOME).
Another interesting point that's brought up is that the Bow & Crossbow ammunition is unlimited – which makes sense given the way it's streamlined and that there's a dedicated Archer character (albeit not in the Network Test build, but who's crouching in the screenshot that the promo producer Yasuhiro Kitao showed the other day).
So given what we've heard & seen in the reveal trailer, it looks like we know at least something about the other 4:
• Archer
• Spirit Summoner
• Parry/Deflect
• Barbarian/Heavy Weapons
Given how well they've rounded out the 4 here in the Network Test, and that it's gonna be out at the end of May, I'm curious when we'll get a bit more information on the other 4. On that note, it's worth mentioning their plan for content overall.
Thankfully they reiterate that it's not got any plans for being anything like a live service or having paid content within the game, but that balance patches and things like that are expected as usual. That being said – they are considering DLC and want to be able to deliver new characters & bosses within fiscal year (by March 2026). However they go about it, I am glad that it's not as a Live Service thing – which is SUCH a good call on their part.
In that article, it also mentions that ALL the weapons are from Elden Ring & along with the 8 unique character weapons. While there're enemies from Shadow of the Erdtree, none of the weapons from that are included currently. I expect that this is likely because both SotE & Nightreign had some degree of concurrent development, and so everything they worked off of was likely based off of the final balance patch in Elden Ring, so that Nightreign has a well-tested baseline for its equipment – especially since it works fairly differently within this game with no weight & also having passives, you need to have the gear already be basically Dev Complete. (I'd expect it's possible that the SotE weapons may end up being one of the things that they want to include later on as they add in bosses & other characters).
For Single-Player they've done a sort of "reverse scaling" from how everything's built & balanced for the standard 3-person team (it's like how calling in cooperators in Souls games typically scale up the boss HP for each added player but in reverse). While that DOES allow for Nightreign to be an experience that doesn't force it to always be online or be mutliplayer – even with the scaling to a Single-Player mode, it's still going to be significantly difficult going at it Solo, because bosses like the three-headed Red Wolf boss will still split into 3 different bodies since they're designed to be a group effort.
The Souls community being what it is, and the runs having drops that are procedurally generated, I can't WAIT to see the ridiculous challenges that some of the hardcore Solo players decide to take on with this – speaking of which:
It also notes that the returning bosses' attack timings are NOT the same as any of the games they're from – so that while you'll likely recognize and be able to anticipate what moves familiar enemies will use, you still have to learn everything from experiencing it first-hand. So, even if you're a FromSoft veteran – you won't have an automatic way to breeze through everything with muscle memory – and this includes the Elden Ring bosses as well.
That's a really neat way to level the playing field and make it so that things are familiar, but also new. I'm sure I'll end up getting caught out by timings a bunch because of that, but that oddly makes me excited to re-learn bosses again, which itself is a big draw to the game. Keeping my fingers crossed things go smoothly.
Given that there are 5 test sessions – I think I'm gonna try to stick to one character for each play session, so that I can get as much time into learning them as I can. Then that'll let me spend the last day getting to try out whoever I want based on a well-rounded experience with everyone, as well as allowing for any potential issues breaking things during one of them.
I may end up shifting away from that if I end up getting absolutely steamrolled with one of the characters. Given that the 3-Day-Cycles apparently run about 35-40 mins, I'm figuring that I'll end up doing about 6 or so runs (since I very much doubt I'll end up getting all the way through early on, plus I know I'll be checking out the various features of the game and Roundtable Hold & whatnot as well). Trying to get all this into my head so that I can figure out who to start out with.
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
So, the first Network Test was VERY full of network struggles. Most of the time was them doing unexpected server maintenance, and I didn't manage to get into any of the actual sessions – which was pretty close to what most people encountered.
However I did get some time to meander around the Roundtable Hold, and check out some details as well as bash around in the Sparring Arena with the four characters which immediately give me a bunch of thoughts about them.
First is that everyone's dodges are VERY different – Wylder has a typical Souls roll with some decent distance, Guardian has a really short distance sidestep, Recluse has a really floaty jump that lifts her up slightly and is about medium between those two, and Duchess has the ducking Bloodborne-esque sidestep & does a back handspring when dashing backwards. This along with the quick dashing & wall jumping not only feels different in a significant way from past games, but also makes it feel different even at Lv 1 with all the characters even without any unique equipment.
Second is while I didn't mess around too much with the levels, the difference from Level 1 to Level 2 is SIGNIFICANT, and the progression feels meaningful, and all the different characters will have stats that vary a lot in their HP/FP/Stamina distribution as you progress (Max Level is 15).
Added to that is something that I haven't actually gotten to use but is a design detail you can see about the characters for how they'll continue to remain different from one another even as you move through the meta-progression. The set of 3 Relic Rites available for the characters are all different in a way which seems like it'll be akin to Bloodborne's differently shaped Blood Gems – Wylder's are Red/Red/Blue, Guardian's are Red/Red/Yellow, Duchess's are Green/Green/Green, & Recluse's are Green/Green/Red.
Third is a general thing – Using your character-specific Skills & Ultimates feels great, and the Ultimates also making you completely immune to damage is a HUGE deal, which means that learning to time them is gonna be important. The fact that it's Triangle+R2 means that you're gonna have to be able to anticipate timing since you can't just hit it reactively. That being said, everyone's Skills & Ultimates are significantly different as is when & how often you'll use them and crucially whether or not you hold down R2 when using it.
So, now I'll get into the various thoughts that I have about the characters. ONG-BAL made a video going over all of them, and as that's got the Akills & Ult in Korean, I'll add in Sekiro Dubi's footage of the character selection:
Wylder – His playstyle is very much the classic Souls. He's got a parry shield & sword. He's got a passive that lets him tank through one shot that would otherwise kill him. His Skill with the hookshot to pull little enemies towards you or pull you into big enemies is straightforward. His big pilebunker explosion is one that you can charge up, and given that this also extends the invulnerability window, I expect that you'll always want to be holding it down since the quick version pushed you back which is good as an escape, but I think almost all the time you'd want to press the advantage there rather than back off. The fact that you're essentially guaranteed a stun/stagger and you know you can't get wrecked out of it is monumentally useful. Given that really big multi-person salvos of damage are more effective than critical, but locking down opponents with a critical hit still carries a lot of weight, I think that there's some amount of nuance that'll become more apparent over time, but he's VERY much the character to be taking point, while the different abilities that others have serve to help back him up.
He's a very quick to pick up character and feels very classic Souls, so it's obvious why you'd want to start out with him as the iconic character because he's THE quintessential baseline for solving problems with a well-rounded understanding of the Souls combat system, who seems to be able to pivot pretty well into whatever, and make an opening.
Guardian – He's a tough defensive character, and the poking Halberd/Shield combo feels incredibly comfortable to me (since a poking Halberd is one of my preferred weapons). His character ability lets him keep his short-range dash even while guarding which seems optimal for his design. His Skill to knock back a group and disrupt seems like it'll be really helpful in teaming up, but that he'll excel if/when he's caught out on his own, His Ultimate is possibly the most interesting of all of them, because it's a brief flight, a further boost up, and then the crash down to deal a big AoE. First is that you can get some pretty good distance, and movement will vary the range that it hits over, but the delay is identical regardless. However – if you keep R2 held when he lands – he'll remain locked in place and that VERY wide AoE provides a defense boost to everyone in the area.
Using his Ultimate against the Marionette, it prevented any damage to me and hits took away my stamina instead just like if you're guarding with a shield, but I'm not sure exactly how that works for other characters in the area (if it drains my stamina or theirs) or when that guard ability breaks, since the Marionette couldn't knock me out of it even when my Stamina was at 0. This is apparently what makes him exceptionally good at assisting in reviving downed characters, since that big damage splash clears a lot, and can protect a character reviving any still-downed ally. That along with the fact that the wing motif on his shield makes up for the face that his left wing is injured (hence his limited flight) gives him just an awesome and unique silhouette (something that the game has done brilliantly btw). Overall, he's probably gonna be a go-to character for me.
Duchess – Her stamina-conserving double dash and daggers feel really good for that quick/aggressive playstyle. Her Skill to re-trigger damage is actually exceptionally helpful to allow you to keep pressure while you dash back to recover, so it makes for really interesting pacing to her kit that I think a lot of people are gonna REALLY like. Another thing is that it works for hit, but it does NOT seem to re-trigger anything for criticals (likely due to how those animations always lock out additional damage sources), so you want to use it for big multi-hitting chains. She's a really unique-feeling opportunist and how quick she is really stands out from all the others even with the quicker overall pace of the gameplay.
Her attack patterns make it so that she seems like she'll be a really nice pair to anyone else because the in-and-out nature of her ability to move around the field seems exceptionally beneficial. Additionally, since L3 is the "dash" now & there is no crouching her Ultimate seems like it's an absolutely INCREDIBLE asset to be able to clutch allow a team to press the advantage, or potentially even initiate against a strong opponent unawares. This ultimate is one where team chat coordination seems like it'd be more useful when you want to be proactive about it during things out on the field, even though it's got its exceptionally strong reactive potential during the boss battles, where I expect that this paired with her damage-doubling will be capable of reviving fallen allies extremely well similar to Guardian – but especially later into the run when that gets more difficult to do while a boss is pressuring you. (That said, her base playstyle is one I'm a little less proficient at and she doesn't have much risk management on her own the way Guardian does, so while I expect a LOT of Bloodborne & Souls players will be able to run solo with her super effectively, it'll take some getting used to for me – but I do look forward to it).
Recluse – She is by FAR the most complex, and requires you to think a lot about what you're doing such that you're gonna NEED to be keeping at a reasonable distance. Her Skill allowing you to restore FP when absorbing an element means that for me it was VASTLY easier to off-hand the staff because then regular casting is L1, and then absorbing FP is Triangle+L2. Heavy Attack is a different spell though, so two-handing might end up being more helpful but it's a little hard to say before being able to try a bunch of different equipment builds. She's actually the reason I considered seeing if I can remap the Skill/Ultimate and Two-Handing so that it's quicker since L1/R1 are buttons whereas L2/R2 are triggers (since the Menu did mention remapping in the controls), but I didn't get to testing that before the Server closed.
So, not ONLY need to be keeping an eye out for a good opportunity to trigger it frequently as a way to manage your FP reserves for normal attacks but as soon as you've got 3, the ability changes so that Triange+L2 will can trigger the Magic Cocktail making hers the only ability isn't a timed cooldown, but rather one that requires active chores. This means that even if you're hanging back and not dealing damage yourself, you can be recharging and still putting out bigger magic attacks regularly from the backlines... – but you ALSO need to pay attention to what elements are hitting who – since you can apparently absorb hits from your ALLIES as well as from enemies. The importance to that is the fact that Holy, Lightning, Fire, & Magic will ALL provide different combinations, resulting in different effects from the Magic Cocktail. The only one I got to see was the triple Magic because that's all I had in the Sparring Arena, but there's a Reddit post that lists all of them that I'm gonna try and commit to memory that shows JUST how different they are, and how you'll want to adapt your tactics around the effects you want to (and are able to) trigger.
She is... significantly complex in a way that seems ridiculously satisfying and the Ultimate being the Bloodseal to cause all attacks to restore HP/FP really makes it so that it syncs up with when she needs to recharge/have everyone push the offensive as much as possible, especially since holding it down makes no difference, and she's just twirling around & immune means that using it to avoid getting hit & incentivizing everyone to dive in as aggressively as possible makes perfect sense – but you also want to make sure that you avoiding that hit isn't one that'll down one of your team members. So, having a good sense of the overall flow of the battle is gonna be important, and while having backup weapons will be really key to not getting stuck without any FP – the difference in dodges & stats as you level up mean that it'll be VERY different playing her, but also what options you'll be employing in group fights will be based on not only the Elemental loadout of just you or your team, but in the damage types that the bosses deal. She seems like she's gonna be absurdly satisfying to learn, and is a character that I'm most looking forward to doing multiple runs with and trying to master.
Lastly on that gameplay stuff is that while I haven't gotten to use, the Visual Codex in the Roundtable Hold does show some neat stuff, like the fact that the Mines are interconnected underground and provide alternate pathways through to places. Additionally, things like the Gravewort flower will cause the 3 Phantoms to attach themselves over you like the Carian Swords that'll auto-attack enemies who come close, so while crafting isn't in the game, the field components still have a unique and interesting purpose that seems like it'll shape the gameplay in ways that're interesting to learn. Sekiro Dubi's got a video of all its content:
The final thing that I can comment on at the moment is that this game FEELS different tonally in a really interesting way, but also visually it's more different than most people would likely notice at a glance. The Roundtable Hold is loosely similar, but the growth of moss, trees, and foliage through the rafters, and even on the statues and things inside immediately feels NOTHING like the mystical Roundtable Hold OR the one in Leyndell. Even before you can walk outside and look around at its placement on a tiny little island, or that the basement stairs past where Master Hewg would be is a room that's mostly bare underground, it has a totally different presence which holds true to the various warriors hanging around there. That along with the background music makes it feel like a place that's just... like it belongs in a deep forest somewhere, which is a vibe that I don't think is true of ANYTHING in The Lands Between.
Additionally, while the artwork on the walls is a little repetitive, there is a new image of Lord Godfrey, and one of the side rooms has a smaller portrait of Lord Radagon... but noticeably, there isn't a single piece of iconography of Queen Marika ANYWHERE that you can currently access within the Roundtable Hold (there are a few closed doors). With the overt repetition of the artwork hung on the walls, that feels monumentally intentional and really makes the ancient forest-like feel of this Roundtable Hold feel like it's nearly untouched by the elements that are most recognizable from Marika's Golden Order. It's a very different Lands Between – even with my having yet to set foot into Limveld.
Given that they're considering the possibility of a make-up session for things today, I'm not sure if that'll change my approach. I do know that right now I'm most inclined to start out with Guardian to get my legs and get a sense of the gameplay loop, and second to that I really want to test out what sorts of variance exists with Recluse since there's just... SO much variation I want to wrap my head around and they both have a team support aspect that I not only understand, but that matches what I do.
I primarily played as a mid-range massive AoE shield character back in FFXV Comrades, and there's a lot here that feels familiar to that in how it's taken the combat and various details from the base game and then REALLY opened them up around a team multiplayer gameplay loop.
One final fun fact: Duchess seems to be based on the character from FromSoft's VR game Deracine:
X
However I did get some time to meander around the Roundtable Hold, and check out some details as well as bash around in the Sparring Arena with the four characters which immediately give me a bunch of thoughts about them.
First is that everyone's dodges are VERY different – Wylder has a typical Souls roll with some decent distance, Guardian has a really short distance sidestep, Recluse has a really floaty jump that lifts her up slightly and is about medium between those two, and Duchess has the ducking Bloodborne-esque sidestep & does a back handspring when dashing backwards. This along with the quick dashing & wall jumping not only feels different in a significant way from past games, but also makes it feel different even at Lv 1 with all the characters even without any unique equipment.
Second is while I didn't mess around too much with the levels, the difference from Level 1 to Level 2 is SIGNIFICANT, and the progression feels meaningful, and all the different characters will have stats that vary a lot in their HP/FP/Stamina distribution as you progress (Max Level is 15).
Added to that is something that I haven't actually gotten to use but is a design detail you can see about the characters for how they'll continue to remain different from one another even as you move through the meta-progression. The set of 3 Relic Rites available for the characters are all different in a way which seems like it'll be akin to Bloodborne's differently shaped Blood Gems – Wylder's are Red/Red/Blue, Guardian's are Red/Red/Yellow, Duchess's are Green/Green/Green, & Recluse's are Green/Green/Red.
Third is a general thing – Using your character-specific Skills & Ultimates feels great, and the Ultimates also making you completely immune to damage is a HUGE deal, which means that learning to time them is gonna be important. The fact that it's Triangle+R2 means that you're gonna have to be able to anticipate timing since you can't just hit it reactively. That being said, everyone's Skills & Ultimates are significantly different as is when & how often you'll use them and crucially whether or not you hold down R2 when using it.
So, now I'll get into the various thoughts that I have about the characters. ONG-BAL made a video going over all of them, and as that's got the Akills & Ult in Korean, I'll add in Sekiro Dubi's footage of the character selection:
Wylder – His playstyle is very much the classic Souls. He's got a parry shield & sword. He's got a passive that lets him tank through one shot that would otherwise kill him. His Skill with the hookshot to pull little enemies towards you or pull you into big enemies is straightforward. His big pilebunker explosion is one that you can charge up, and given that this also extends the invulnerability window, I expect that you'll always want to be holding it down since the quick version pushed you back which is good as an escape, but I think almost all the time you'd want to press the advantage there rather than back off. The fact that you're essentially guaranteed a stun/stagger and you know you can't get wrecked out of it is monumentally useful. Given that really big multi-person salvos of damage are more effective than critical, but locking down opponents with a critical hit still carries a lot of weight, I think that there's some amount of nuance that'll become more apparent over time, but he's VERY much the character to be taking point, while the different abilities that others have serve to help back him up.
He's a very quick to pick up character and feels very classic Souls, so it's obvious why you'd want to start out with him as the iconic character because he's THE quintessential baseline for solving problems with a well-rounded understanding of the Souls combat system, who seems to be able to pivot pretty well into whatever, and make an opening.
Guardian – He's a tough defensive character, and the poking Halberd/Shield combo feels incredibly comfortable to me (since a poking Halberd is one of my preferred weapons). His character ability lets him keep his short-range dash even while guarding which seems optimal for his design. His Skill to knock back a group and disrupt seems like it'll be really helpful in teaming up, but that he'll excel if/when he's caught out on his own, His Ultimate is possibly the most interesting of all of them, because it's a brief flight, a further boost up, and then the crash down to deal a big AoE. First is that you can get some pretty good distance, and movement will vary the range that it hits over, but the delay is identical regardless. However – if you keep R2 held when he lands – he'll remain locked in place and that VERY wide AoE provides a defense boost to everyone in the area.
Using his Ultimate against the Marionette, it prevented any damage to me and hits took away my stamina instead just like if you're guarding with a shield, but I'm not sure exactly how that works for other characters in the area (if it drains my stamina or theirs) or when that guard ability breaks, since the Marionette couldn't knock me out of it even when my Stamina was at 0. This is apparently what makes him exceptionally good at assisting in reviving downed characters, since that big damage splash clears a lot, and can protect a character reviving any still-downed ally. That along with the fact that the wing motif on his shield makes up for the face that his left wing is injured (hence his limited flight) gives him just an awesome and unique silhouette (something that the game has done brilliantly btw). Overall, he's probably gonna be a go-to character for me.
Duchess – Her stamina-conserving double dash and daggers feel really good for that quick/aggressive playstyle. Her Skill to re-trigger damage is actually exceptionally helpful to allow you to keep pressure while you dash back to recover, so it makes for really interesting pacing to her kit that I think a lot of people are gonna REALLY like. Another thing is that it works for hit, but it does NOT seem to re-trigger anything for criticals (likely due to how those animations always lock out additional damage sources), so you want to use it for big multi-hitting chains. She's a really unique-feeling opportunist and how quick she is really stands out from all the others even with the quicker overall pace of the gameplay.
Her attack patterns make it so that she seems like she'll be a really nice pair to anyone else because the in-and-out nature of her ability to move around the field seems exceptionally beneficial. Additionally, since L3 is the "dash" now & there is no crouching her Ultimate seems like it's an absolutely INCREDIBLE asset to be able to clutch allow a team to press the advantage, or potentially even initiate against a strong opponent unawares. This ultimate is one where team chat coordination seems like it'd be more useful when you want to be proactive about it during things out on the field, even though it's got its exceptionally strong reactive potential during the boss battles, where I expect that this paired with her damage-doubling will be capable of reviving fallen allies extremely well similar to Guardian – but especially later into the run when that gets more difficult to do while a boss is pressuring you. (That said, her base playstyle is one I'm a little less proficient at and she doesn't have much risk management on her own the way Guardian does, so while I expect a LOT of Bloodborne & Souls players will be able to run solo with her super effectively, it'll take some getting used to for me – but I do look forward to it).
Recluse – She is by FAR the most complex, and requires you to think a lot about what you're doing such that you're gonna NEED to be keeping at a reasonable distance. Her Skill allowing you to restore FP when absorbing an element means that for me it was VASTLY easier to off-hand the staff because then regular casting is L1, and then absorbing FP is Triangle+L2. Heavy Attack is a different spell though, so two-handing might end up being more helpful but it's a little hard to say before being able to try a bunch of different equipment builds. She's actually the reason I considered seeing if I can remap the Skill/Ultimate and Two-Handing so that it's quicker since L1/R1 are buttons whereas L2/R2 are triggers (since the Menu did mention remapping in the controls), but I didn't get to testing that before the Server closed.
So, not ONLY need to be keeping an eye out for a good opportunity to trigger it frequently as a way to manage your FP reserves for normal attacks but as soon as you've got 3, the ability changes so that Triange+L2 will can trigger the Magic Cocktail making hers the only ability isn't a timed cooldown, but rather one that requires active chores. This means that even if you're hanging back and not dealing damage yourself, you can be recharging and still putting out bigger magic attacks regularly from the backlines... – but you ALSO need to pay attention to what elements are hitting who – since you can apparently absorb hits from your ALLIES as well as from enemies. The importance to that is the fact that Holy, Lightning, Fire, & Magic will ALL provide different combinations, resulting in different effects from the Magic Cocktail. The only one I got to see was the triple Magic because that's all I had in the Sparring Arena, but there's a Reddit post that lists all of them that I'm gonna try and commit to memory that shows JUST how different they are, and how you'll want to adapt your tactics around the effects you want to (and are able to) trigger.
She is... significantly complex in a way that seems ridiculously satisfying and the Ultimate being the Bloodseal to cause all attacks to restore HP/FP really makes it so that it syncs up with when she needs to recharge/have everyone push the offensive as much as possible, especially since holding it down makes no difference, and she's just twirling around & immune means that using it to avoid getting hit & incentivizing everyone to dive in as aggressively as possible makes perfect sense – but you also want to make sure that you avoiding that hit isn't one that'll down one of your team members. So, having a good sense of the overall flow of the battle is gonna be important, and while having backup weapons will be really key to not getting stuck without any FP – the difference in dodges & stats as you level up mean that it'll be VERY different playing her, but also what options you'll be employing in group fights will be based on not only the Elemental loadout of just you or your team, but in the damage types that the bosses deal. She seems like she's gonna be absurdly satisfying to learn, and is a character that I'm most looking forward to doing multiple runs with and trying to master.
Lastly on that gameplay stuff is that while I haven't gotten to use, the Visual Codex in the Roundtable Hold does show some neat stuff, like the fact that the Mines are interconnected underground and provide alternate pathways through to places. Additionally, things like the Gravewort flower will cause the 3 Phantoms to attach themselves over you like the Carian Swords that'll auto-attack enemies who come close, so while crafting isn't in the game, the field components still have a unique and interesting purpose that seems like it'll shape the gameplay in ways that're interesting to learn. Sekiro Dubi's got a video of all its content:
The final thing that I can comment on at the moment is that this game FEELS different tonally in a really interesting way, but also visually it's more different than most people would likely notice at a glance. The Roundtable Hold is loosely similar, but the growth of moss, trees, and foliage through the rafters, and even on the statues and things inside immediately feels NOTHING like the mystical Roundtable Hold OR the one in Leyndell. Even before you can walk outside and look around at its placement on a tiny little island, or that the basement stairs past where Master Hewg would be is a room that's mostly bare underground, it has a totally different presence which holds true to the various warriors hanging around there. That along with the background music makes it feel like a place that's just... like it belongs in a deep forest somewhere, which is a vibe that I don't think is true of ANYTHING in The Lands Between.
Additionally, while the artwork on the walls is a little repetitive, there is a new image of Lord Godfrey, and one of the side rooms has a smaller portrait of Lord Radagon... but noticeably, there isn't a single piece of iconography of Queen Marika ANYWHERE that you can currently access within the Roundtable Hold (there are a few closed doors). With the overt repetition of the artwork hung on the walls, that feels monumentally intentional and really makes the ancient forest-like feel of this Roundtable Hold feel like it's nearly untouched by the elements that are most recognizable from Marika's Golden Order. It's a very different Lands Between – even with my having yet to set foot into Limveld.
Given that they're considering the possibility of a make-up session for things today, I'm not sure if that'll change my approach. I do know that right now I'm most inclined to start out with Guardian to get my legs and get a sense of the gameplay loop, and second to that I really want to test out what sorts of variance exists with Recluse since there's just... SO much variation I want to wrap my head around and they both have a team support aspect that I not only understand, but that matches what I do.
I primarily played as a mid-range massive AoE shield character back in FFXV Comrades, and there's a lot here that feels familiar to that in how it's taken the combat and various details from the base game and then REALLY opened them up around a team multiplayer gameplay loop.
One final fun fact: Duchess seems to be based on the character from FromSoft's VR game Deracine:
X
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Ok, so first real test went off 4-7am my time (played Guardian), and then they announced a make-up from 12-15 which just wrapped up a bit ago (played Recluse), and then there's another one from 20-23 later today. Suffice to say, I'm getting my hours in.
The first session was when I played Guardian, and it was absolutely frantic as HELL. There's a lot to learn about what to do & where to go, how to get there, which places have what things, and you have to be sprinting everywhere at top speed all the time, and coordinating, or you're gonna get absolutely rolled. By the second session, I felt loosely aware of the map enough to play as Recluse, and there was ONE SESSION where myself as Recluse, along with a Guardian & Duchess made it to the Nightlord Tricephalus – and got wiped out about 1/3rd of the way into the fight – though I'll get to that in a bit.
First – you will have to un-wire your brain from navigation impulses. You can vault over walls and up cliffs by spamming jump, You can leap off of cliff with reckless abandon. For the first 2-3 games, I kept navigating through areas and running around walls rather than over them. That's the first major hurdle to being able to actually make use of the map. Spirit Springs make everything easy, and they're simple to find.
Second is that you have to know which starting zone you're going for, and how that hooks into one of the tougher enemies to get early drops that matter. Pinning locations is essential, and I'm still not the best at using it since you can't practice it within the Roundtable Hold. So, I'll try and detail some things about what it's like.
Ex: If you end up dropping in the South East you'll clear out a Fire Worshipper camp, drop down through a hole in the floor in one area, loop around into a tiny underground area to take out a Fire Monk, and then head out of the underground, if you have a Stonesword Key, you can pop open an Evergaol, if not move towards a church in the South to get an extra healing flask and a scarab, take out a dragon – and if you're REALLY quick you'll be able to beat the dragon as the Night Rain starts coming down. Of all the starting points, this is by FAR the most ideal.
Ex2: Starting more in the top, you're gonna have to take on a fortress where you have to know to run underneath the bridge and come in through the sewers fighting hands, make your way up a series of tiered floors through some mages, and fight a Crystalian at the top... which brings me to the first issue. This is a great run if you've got a Guardian/Wylder, but as I found out later – if you've got two Duchesses & a Recluse... you are basically dealing absolutely ZERO damage to the Crystalian no matter what you toss at it, because you have no gear yet, you'll burn a massive amount of time, and possibly even die – at which point it's SUCH a long run back compares to the South East that you're gonna be out about 20,000 Runes and stuck at level 1 with basically nothing to show for it.
– Until you know what's where you're gonna be in a mad scramble of people pinning places and making suggestions for places to go, and then just giving it your best shot. Dying not ONLY makes you drop your runes and resets you, but you also lose a level, which is manageable as Guardian even if it suchs – but as Recluse... unless you're level 6-7 by the time the first boss shows up your HP is SO SMALL that you'll basically be unable to do anything without getting insta-KO'd by literally anything that hits you. Once you get a sense of what you should be doing and can start to get more bandwidth to try other things out, it gets REALLY fun... assuming something doesn't go annoyingly sideways (like the aforementioned Crystalian drop zone).
This is where I'm gonna call out the few things that I think are a bit less than ideal at the moment.
So, now that that's out of the way, I wanna jump to the Bosses because they are NOT all created equal.
Not by a country mile.
So, all of that out of the way, and me running on like 3-4 hours of sleep, and about to dive back into another session of this in 2 hours with Duchess – I've gotta say that...
I REALLY like it.
For the sort of thing that's an in-development slice of something where they're doing this primarily for testing the network stuff, it's extremely fun. The weirdest thing is un-wiring my brain to get it into this gameplay loop, and knowing what types of weapons work, what familiar items do. What's worth buying from a Merchant, how important leveling is by which point, etc. I figure that I'll have more collected thoughts by Sunday's final test. Given that the 20-23 test today is the third one I've done almost uninterrupted, I'm probably gonna sleep early rather than write a follow-up about Duchess.
The final two tests are at 12-15 Sunday and then 4-7am that "night" so, assuming all goes according to plan I'll be doing Wylder during Sunday, and then the very last one I'll honestly probably just be back with Recluse since I've had far and away the most fun with her. (Since you have to manage SO MUCH with her kit – but also because I've been playing Elden Ring maxed out and just using whatever spells and things I want for fun, it's got a lot of the same appeal to making various magic builds, and knowing what things overlap & work together). Also, post-Wylder I'll have a window where I can actually look up anything by other people who've been playing this for tips & whatnot before my final play session.
As such – I'll probably make my follow-up post about the Nightreign Closed Network Test some time on Monday.
EDIT:
Just played the third session and wanted to add in my thoughts now. Duchess is INSANELY lightweight. Her double dodge and overall agility and the timing with her stuff makes her top-notch for survivability. She's great for rushdown, and can use basically whatever weapons with ease. I FINALLY have a Relic Rite that works for the proper character that causes the final hit of a combo to re-trigger and hit nearby enemies which is insane for crowd control.
Despite all of that, there's not quite enough variation to her kit to keep me hooked into the core gameplay loop with her... and I think that I'm gonna feel the same way about Wylder, since they have similar types of kits that are suited to specialize in the regular Souls-like combat loop, and Wylder is about pushing in and engaging whereas she's more about floating in & out with disengaging tactics. Guardian has the shield-counter & diving from above AoE that I find interesting, but his crowd clear whirlwind is really well-suited to making him an aggressive tank who can also help manage the pace of the fight (he's a godsend in tough fights with a heavy weapon to rapidly res).
...but I've gotten REALLY hooked on the bigger complexity part so I went back to Recluse.
There's just something about managing the different elements that is SO satisfying, and is a weird chores challenge that just grabs every facet of my brain, because it's dynamically shifting as the composition of your party happens upon new things. I haven't QUITE got all of them memorized yet, but I'm getting pretty close – and that alone feels like it's a satisfying reason to lock in more time on her. (The only thing that I have as feedback on her kit is the same as the Relic Rites – they need to use the unique visual indicators and not just change the colors 'cause colorblind folks should be able to use that without having to guess).
So – how'd that go?
My first match once I did had a Guardian who was just aggressively spear-heading through everything and the Wylder & I were just trying to keep up with his fixed route through the map. We all got good gear, and took out the Demi-Human Duo, got Invaded by Morgott targeting the Guardian, summarily beat the Draconic Tree Sentinel, and made it to Gladius. We were going through the fight SUPER smoothly... and then the only hard disconnect I've had the whole time dropped me to the title screen.
The match after that was just one other person, so probably some network hiccups. The session after had a Duchess & Wylder, and we got the Centipede Demon & Morgott into the final battle. Had good gear, Made it through until he had about 1/6th or less of his HP remaining, and then just got unlucky with both Duchess & Wylder BARELY not being out of his AoE, getting downed simultaneously as I was in a casting animation for Magic Cocktail and got taken out before I could pivot to do anything.
The last 20 mins was one where there was a Duchess getting perpetually lost who eventually d/c'd, and the Wylder & I meandered around the map with me leading, and managed to beat the Demi-Human Duo with just the two of us, and were fighting through some other stuff when the test session eventually closed and dropped us both from the game.
The MASSIVE downside to getting disconnected vs. dying is that you pick up Relic Rites no matter what point you get to in a run when you're defeated, and they're better the farther you get. However... the disconnection just hard resets you to the Roundtable Hold, so the match that we blitzed through and conquered didn't net us anything. I'm curious how they'll handle that sort of thing in the proper game.
Lastly, when you beat the second boss, you go to the "Spirit Sanctuary" to fight the Night Lord, and you do that by walking into this liquid of anti-gravity bubbles that appear in the middle of the Golden Tree and float you up there. There's a whole cycle to the Tree appearing & pushing back the Night that's around in how it grows the whole time & appears that's really REALLY interesting. Also, while in Limveld you interact with Merchants that're just there in ethereal form (so you don't accidentally attack them), sometimes the one who appears in the Spirit Sanctuary is just... part of the room. Like it's like the Divine Gateway where everything is all just made of the same eerie pale material.
The little nuances and details behind all the designs are SUPER facinating as is the fact that when Morgott invades you it attempts to bring the Night early. It reminded me of how in the base game Morgott used to command the Night's Watchmen and there's the whole mechanic where they & the Death Rite Birds will appear during the night time ...and then there's the hour where the Erdtree's blessing gets strong just before the dawn and makes you collect more Runes. I think that there's some core world-building theme that we're getting to see from a slightly different direction in a way that's really neat.
It's getting easier to get a sense of what to do on the map, but even after 9 hours I'm nowhere CLOSE to feeling fully familiar with how to get around & everything that's there. Ok, goin' ta sleep and NOW I expect to make a follow-up post on Monday.
X
The first session was when I played Guardian, and it was absolutely frantic as HELL. There's a lot to learn about what to do & where to go, how to get there, which places have what things, and you have to be sprinting everywhere at top speed all the time, and coordinating, or you're gonna get absolutely rolled. By the second session, I felt loosely aware of the map enough to play as Recluse, and there was ONE SESSION where myself as Recluse, along with a Guardian & Duchess made it to the Nightlord Tricephalus – and got wiped out about 1/3rd of the way into the fight – though I'll get to that in a bit.
First – you will have to un-wire your brain from navigation impulses. You can vault over walls and up cliffs by spamming jump, You can leap off of cliff with reckless abandon. For the first 2-3 games, I kept navigating through areas and running around walls rather than over them. That's the first major hurdle to being able to actually make use of the map. Spirit Springs make everything easy, and they're simple to find.
Second is that you have to know which starting zone you're going for, and how that hooks into one of the tougher enemies to get early drops that matter. Pinning locations is essential, and I'm still not the best at using it since you can't practice it within the Roundtable Hold. So, I'll try and detail some things about what it's like.
Ex: If you end up dropping in the South East you'll clear out a Fire Worshipper camp, drop down through a hole in the floor in one area, loop around into a tiny underground area to take out a Fire Monk, and then head out of the underground, if you have a Stonesword Key, you can pop open an Evergaol, if not move towards a church in the South to get an extra healing flask and a scarab, take out a dragon – and if you're REALLY quick you'll be able to beat the dragon as the Night Rain starts coming down. Of all the starting points, this is by FAR the most ideal.
Ex2: Starting more in the top, you're gonna have to take on a fortress where you have to know to run underneath the bridge and come in through the sewers fighting hands, make your way up a series of tiered floors through some mages, and fight a Crystalian at the top... which brings me to the first issue. This is a great run if you've got a Guardian/Wylder, but as I found out later – if you've got two Duchesses & a Recluse... you are basically dealing absolutely ZERO damage to the Crystalian no matter what you toss at it, because you have no gear yet, you'll burn a massive amount of time, and possibly even die – at which point it's SUCH a long run back compares to the South East that you're gonna be out about 20,000 Runes and stuck at level 1 with basically nothing to show for it.
– Until you know what's where you're gonna be in a mad scramble of people pinning places and making suggestions for places to go, and then just giving it your best shot. Dying not ONLY makes you drop your runes and resets you, but you also lose a level, which is manageable as Guardian even if it suchs – but as Recluse... unless you're level 6-7 by the time the first boss shows up your HP is SO SMALL that you'll basically be unable to do anything without getting insta-KO'd by literally anything that hits you. Once you get a sense of what you should be doing and can start to get more bandwidth to try other things out, it gets REALLY fun... assuming something doesn't go annoyingly sideways (like the aforementioned Crystalian drop zone).
This is where I'm gonna call out the few things that I think are a bit less than ideal at the moment.
HP Variation between characters:
The HP difference between the characters is a LITTLE bit too skewed only because of the Night Rain – Recluse literally can't get caught out in it or you'll die before you can make it back in – whereas the others have a LOT more leniency on being able to be outside the circle and farming enemies – not to mention fighting something outside the circle without getting one-shot. Because Flasks heal a fixed % of HP, Recluse literally doesn't get the same exchange of time for expended Flask resources in a way that skews things a bit unevenly around a core game mechanic.
Sprinting as a toggle:
Given that Stealth has been replaced with Springing (L3) there's no longer fall damage, and there's a jump-based wall vaulting mechanic – it's a little bit odd to know what actions will/won't reset your movement state. In the main game falling, jumping, and whatnot take you out of sprinting which is what I think is causing it here. The visual indication also isn't really super clear (compared to the whole body crouch vs. standing when you're using that for stealth in the base game). So there are a LOT of times where I land from leaping off a cliff, or I vault something, only to accidentally UN-Sprint my movement, which is annoying but it's also a make-or-break thing with the way that the game is currently paced (especially if you're Recluse caught out in the rain). This is something that could benefit from a little UI/UX bumping, but it'll also be less of an issue if the next point gets addressed instead.
Each Day Cycle should be like 3-4 minutes longer:
There's enough weird terrain barriers where slipping down a cliff and needing to loop around to a Spiritspring is necessary – but right now you're NEVER going to check your map, and the map tools for zooming & things in general are just... useless, because you have to be sprinting at your maximum efficiency everywhere or you're not gonna get through the bosses.
The improved speed and things are good, and optimization for efficiency is good, but this game NEEDS some better margins for exploration. There are big encampments where you have to wander around and fight a bunch of Leyndell Knights, or Misbegotten, or Fire Tanks, or Zamor Ice Warriors – and it can be a little awkward to find all of them without getting turned around, but you don't really have the time to manage that in a way that feels satisfying even when you're familiar with what you're supposed to be doing. This is something that, once again, doesn't make as much of a difference on a character like Guardian or Wylder where you can run a range of really versatile builds, but with Recluse where you're attempting to look at all the different spells on Staffs & Seals, and figure out how that's gonna overlap or shift things with your Magic Cocktail to fundamentally change everything about how you interact with combat, you NEED time to actually read the descriptions on the items and make decisions about them.
This even comes into the way that you totally ignore certain features on the map. Those trees with the Hawks that take you up into the sky? Never used them because you don't know where it's gonna take you, and you're time-pressured to get to very specifc places FAST. The gameplay loop needs a bit more time to breathe, and for you to be able to actually EXPLORE the map, rather than panic memorize things that work – because that's harder to do when you have two other people who are relying on you to make the most of the time you're collectively investing into that run, and can only communicate on where to go specifically.
I know this is something where they've been tweaking the timing a lot, and they've also been looking at things like Battle Royale & Survivor-like games which have that tight "20 minute" loop (you have unlimited time to check upgrades, so they usually run closer to 25-30 minutes), and I'm hoping that another part of this is gonna be looking at a slice of the player data across the 15 hours of sessions to see where things are getting stalled out in ways where internal testing is ALWAYS going to start to skew towards being overly proficient. Also, there IS an underlying unlock progression and balancing that's a part of the core game that's not present here, which I think will end up playing into how the game actually plays outside of what it's like on this build.
Dying Timer & Movement:
This brings me to the Death timer during the Day & "Dying" Movement. Against bosses, you just stay downed until you're revived or everyone dies, and so there's a sense of a tactical approach to the situation that feels really good... except that you can try to crawl, but... you're not going to move towards what you want. You're going to move "forward" in whichever direction your character is laying on the ground, and you can only turn INCREDIBLY slowly. If you're trying to stay close to another downed comrade, you'll probably end up moving away from them about half the time. It's basically like you have the controls of riding Torrent but it like 1/10th speed... but even that's optimal compared to the rest of the game's death's when you're in the field.
During the Day there's a spinning progress bar around you that vanishes insanely quickly and is ridiculously difficult to see on another player – and if that runs out: you die, lose a level, and get reset elsewhere near-ish by. I think literally 85% of my & my teammate's deaths in the field were when we saw them downed, and then sprinted across the field – only to have them literally die JUST before the attack lands. I've had at least 5 deaths where my teammate was literally in the air doing a jump attack that didn't connect before I died. And trying to move towards them to help is just as utterly futile & frustrating.
When that's you just dying at level 1 it's mildly annoying because there's not actually any penalty for that happening aside from losing a little time to run back and grab your Runes... but when that's the difference between you dropping irreversibly from Level 3 to Level 2 AND still needing to run back & pick up your unspent Runes.. it's basically hamstringing the momentum of your entire run 3-4 minutes in... and that SUCKS. Honestly the speed that goes down at should just be like 6-10 seconds longer. It makes a huge difference when you're still all made of glass in the first Day and you have to turn your attention to a teammate you have no direct comms with – and doing that might just get you BOTH killed for not managing the enemies near you first when you're still in the first 4 levels of the game loop.
This is one of those things that's exacerbated when playing as Recluse, because you have to be further back from close-range fighters like the other 3 characters so that you can keep the Elements you're pulling from them & the opponent in a tighter angle of vision. This also means that it takes them longer to reach you if they push forward and missed taking out an enemy that catches you as you go to follow – they have to no ONLY notice you're down, but then turn around to come get you – assuming that they didn't hop off a cliff and need to locate a Spirit Spring or something to get back.
A few minor UI Quality of Life changes:
You should have a visual indicator when you have enough Runes to level up. Since dashing over to a Site of Grace is something that's often deviating you out of your way, it's super annoying when you have to do that to see you're like 700 Runes off. Given how streamlined everything else is, you really need to be able to see your own equipment when buying from a Merchant so that you can make more smooth comparisons against what you already have. Doesn't make a difference in the base game with unlimited storage, but makes ALL the difference here. Also, the UI for the Skill & Art recharging vs. being fully charged aren't NEARLY differentiated enough to be able to easily read out of your peripheral vision – which is critical for a game like this (see Overwatch Ultimates charging for something that's a good example of readability). Other than that, the UI is REALLY pretty and the streamlined format works well for the game.
Weird Relic Rites & Post-Boss/Hard Enemy Rewards:
One of the odd things (which I'm gonna assume is a Beta thing because they've removed the other 4 characters) is that I have constantly gotten character-exclusive bonuses on Relic colors that that character literally can't use (also I've only gotten them for characters I haven't played as well which is some dumb RNG). Ex: I have gotten two Duchess-specific bonuses... both Red relics... and she's triple green. I'm hoping that's cleared up.
The other is that the post-boss effects that are sometimes a trivial bonus to something, and other times are insane things like, sometimes you get a 20% damage bonus against Gravity Enemies... which I think you can find in a single unmarked field on a random area of the map. While another might give you a Frost Storm burst or a Lightning Storm spell that goes off every time you sprint (which has no cooldown). Right now the Relic Rites don't have a really noticeable impact on your Meta Progression or feel like they're meaningfully shaping any character's starting kit to feel at all customized, but that's harder to judge as a miscellaneous slice of the game out of context.
The HP difference between the characters is a LITTLE bit too skewed only because of the Night Rain – Recluse literally can't get caught out in it or you'll die before you can make it back in – whereas the others have a LOT more leniency on being able to be outside the circle and farming enemies – not to mention fighting something outside the circle without getting one-shot. Because Flasks heal a fixed % of HP, Recluse literally doesn't get the same exchange of time for expended Flask resources in a way that skews things a bit unevenly around a core game mechanic.
Sprinting as a toggle:
Given that Stealth has been replaced with Springing (L3) there's no longer fall damage, and there's a jump-based wall vaulting mechanic – it's a little bit odd to know what actions will/won't reset your movement state. In the main game falling, jumping, and whatnot take you out of sprinting which is what I think is causing it here. The visual indication also isn't really super clear (compared to the whole body crouch vs. standing when you're using that for stealth in the base game). So there are a LOT of times where I land from leaping off a cliff, or I vault something, only to accidentally UN-Sprint my movement, which is annoying but it's also a make-or-break thing with the way that the game is currently paced (especially if you're Recluse caught out in the rain). This is something that could benefit from a little UI/UX bumping, but it'll also be less of an issue if the next point gets addressed instead.
Each Day Cycle should be like 3-4 minutes longer:
There's enough weird terrain barriers where slipping down a cliff and needing to loop around to a Spiritspring is necessary – but right now you're NEVER going to check your map, and the map tools for zooming & things in general are just... useless, because you have to be sprinting at your maximum efficiency everywhere or you're not gonna get through the bosses.
The improved speed and things are good, and optimization for efficiency is good, but this game NEEDS some better margins for exploration. There are big encampments where you have to wander around and fight a bunch of Leyndell Knights, or Misbegotten, or Fire Tanks, or Zamor Ice Warriors – and it can be a little awkward to find all of them without getting turned around, but you don't really have the time to manage that in a way that feels satisfying even when you're familiar with what you're supposed to be doing. This is something that, once again, doesn't make as much of a difference on a character like Guardian or Wylder where you can run a range of really versatile builds, but with Recluse where you're attempting to look at all the different spells on Staffs & Seals, and figure out how that's gonna overlap or shift things with your Magic Cocktail to fundamentally change everything about how you interact with combat, you NEED time to actually read the descriptions on the items and make decisions about them.
This even comes into the way that you totally ignore certain features on the map. Those trees with the Hawks that take you up into the sky? Never used them because you don't know where it's gonna take you, and you're time-pressured to get to very specifc places FAST. The gameplay loop needs a bit more time to breathe, and for you to be able to actually EXPLORE the map, rather than panic memorize things that work – because that's harder to do when you have two other people who are relying on you to make the most of the time you're collectively investing into that run, and can only communicate on where to go specifically.
I know this is something where they've been tweaking the timing a lot, and they've also been looking at things like Battle Royale & Survivor-like games which have that tight "20 minute" loop (you have unlimited time to check upgrades, so they usually run closer to 25-30 minutes), and I'm hoping that another part of this is gonna be looking at a slice of the player data across the 15 hours of sessions to see where things are getting stalled out in ways where internal testing is ALWAYS going to start to skew towards being overly proficient. Also, there IS an underlying unlock progression and balancing that's a part of the core game that's not present here, which I think will end up playing into how the game actually plays outside of what it's like on this build.
Dying Timer & Movement:
This brings me to the Death timer during the Day & "Dying" Movement. Against bosses, you just stay downed until you're revived or everyone dies, and so there's a sense of a tactical approach to the situation that feels really good... except that you can try to crawl, but... you're not going to move towards what you want. You're going to move "forward" in whichever direction your character is laying on the ground, and you can only turn INCREDIBLY slowly. If you're trying to stay close to another downed comrade, you'll probably end up moving away from them about half the time. It's basically like you have the controls of riding Torrent but it like 1/10th speed... but even that's optimal compared to the rest of the game's death's when you're in the field.
During the Day there's a spinning progress bar around you that vanishes insanely quickly and is ridiculously difficult to see on another player – and if that runs out: you die, lose a level, and get reset elsewhere near-ish by. I think literally 85% of my & my teammate's deaths in the field were when we saw them downed, and then sprinted across the field – only to have them literally die JUST before the attack lands. I've had at least 5 deaths where my teammate was literally in the air doing a jump attack that didn't connect before I died. And trying to move towards them to help is just as utterly futile & frustrating.
When that's you just dying at level 1 it's mildly annoying because there's not actually any penalty for that happening aside from losing a little time to run back and grab your Runes... but when that's the difference between you dropping irreversibly from Level 3 to Level 2 AND still needing to run back & pick up your unspent Runes.. it's basically hamstringing the momentum of your entire run 3-4 minutes in... and that SUCKS. Honestly the speed that goes down at should just be like 6-10 seconds longer. It makes a huge difference when you're still all made of glass in the first Day and you have to turn your attention to a teammate you have no direct comms with – and doing that might just get you BOTH killed for not managing the enemies near you first when you're still in the first 4 levels of the game loop.
This is one of those things that's exacerbated when playing as Recluse, because you have to be further back from close-range fighters like the other 3 characters so that you can keep the Elements you're pulling from them & the opponent in a tighter angle of vision. This also means that it takes them longer to reach you if they push forward and missed taking out an enemy that catches you as you go to follow – they have to no ONLY notice you're down, but then turn around to come get you – assuming that they didn't hop off a cliff and need to locate a Spirit Spring or something to get back.
A few minor UI Quality of Life changes:
You should have a visual indicator when you have enough Runes to level up. Since dashing over to a Site of Grace is something that's often deviating you out of your way, it's super annoying when you have to do that to see you're like 700 Runes off. Given how streamlined everything else is, you really need to be able to see your own equipment when buying from a Merchant so that you can make more smooth comparisons against what you already have. Doesn't make a difference in the base game with unlimited storage, but makes ALL the difference here. Also, the UI for the Skill & Art recharging vs. being fully charged aren't NEARLY differentiated enough to be able to easily read out of your peripheral vision – which is critical for a game like this (see Overwatch Ultimates charging for something that's a good example of readability). Other than that, the UI is REALLY pretty and the streamlined format works well for the game.
Weird Relic Rites & Post-Boss/Hard Enemy Rewards:
One of the odd things (which I'm gonna assume is a Beta thing because they've removed the other 4 characters) is that I have constantly gotten character-exclusive bonuses on Relic colors that that character literally can't use (also I've only gotten them for characters I haven't played as well which is some dumb RNG). Ex: I have gotten two Duchess-specific bonuses... both Red relics... and she's triple green. I'm hoping that's cleared up.
The other is that the post-boss effects that are sometimes a trivial bonus to something, and other times are insane things like, sometimes you get a 20% damage bonus against Gravity Enemies... which I think you can find in a single unmarked field on a random area of the map. While another might give you a Frost Storm burst or a Lightning Storm spell that goes off every time you sprint (which has no cooldown). Right now the Relic Rites don't have a really noticeable impact on your Meta Progression or feel like they're meaningfully shaping any character's starting kit to feel at all customized, but that's harder to judge as a miscellaneous slice of the game out of context.
So, now that that's out of the way, I wanna jump to the Bosses because they are NOT all created equal.
Not by a country mile.
First: You can end up fighting bosses with some sub-optimal gear on Night One, and oftentimes the rush through the Night Rain to get to the arena if you're a little behind on levels means you can't hit a Grace on your way to replenish flasks. If you've had to heal your way through the closing circle... you're also probably starting this fight off with 1-2 heals.
Before the fight, there's a preliminary collection of enemies that spawn. I know that they're a mob of like 8 Demi-Humans for the first boss, and I honestly can't remember for the second one. These will also potentially knock you into a less-than-ideal state to kick off the fight.
NIGHT ONE:
• The Centipede Demon:
I think that with every time I've fought it COMBINED, I've only even been HIT by it... MAYBE 4-5 times IN TOTAL, and I don't think I've ever even so much as been KO'd by it, and have NEVER died to it. Like... there's literally nothing to say here. It's a night & day difference. Yes, pieces break off of it, but you can rush those down solo before they ever hit you, so you basically have a single target the whole time, and he's jumping up into the sky like a third of the fight giving you all the time to heal or do whatever you want.
No matter how sub-optionally a run was going – this a goddamn cake walk that's just a free pass to Day 2.
• Demi-Human Queen & Demi-Human Swordman:
The Swordsman Bloodhound stepping with most of his moves means he's insanely hard to keep track of, and his attacks will one-shot Recluse even up to about level 7-8 (as will some of the Demi-Human Queen's magic). On top of that, when the Queen reaches about 1/2 HP, the arena will start constantly spawning random gold Demi-Humans so there are at least 4-5 extra targets on the field that are all the same size as the Swordman, which means he's even harder to consistently target. If you're a character like Recluse whose Skill has to target a particular entity and draw a specific elemental magic from something on the field – it's already insanely complicated even with just the two bosses... but this ALSO means that all characters have like 200% more lock-on targets to cycle past in order to target an ally if they get downed. The times that we've managed this have been when one of us randomly gets an utterly INSANE incantation drop like Ancient Dragon's Lightning Strike or Meteor Shower to just bombard everything in sight OR when there's a Duchess or Wylder who can single handledly keep the Swordman's aggro, and kite them to the opposite end of the arena and not get downed by just playing Cat & Mouse, while staying out of range of the Queen's magic.
This fight is OPPRESSIVE AS ALL HELL, and I'd say a good 60% of my runs have ended on this fight.
NIGHT TWO:
The Fell Omen:
Morgott's pre-boss fight are two Omens like the ones you fight on the ay to the Divine Tower to get his & Mohg's Great Runes in the base game. They're an absolute breeze. They spawn side-by-side, and you just rush them down into nothing.
Morgott himself is tough. On top of this, he can arbitrarily invade you in the middle of Day 2 (which happened to me 3 times in a row playing as Guardian, ironically the first two times he was targeting me directly when I had a weapon with the passive "Make you less likely to be targeted by enemies" equipped). The best thing is that there's a specific reticle locked onto whichever of your companions Morgott is hunting (also true in the boss fight). This means that you can tactically juggle aggro to have one of you focus on dodging, and the other two focus on kicking his ass, then as soon as the target swaps, if you're not targeted, you go assist the other party member who's downed. While in my early runs as Guardian he absolutely bodied me, on the second Test as Recluse, we had a Recluse, Recluse, Duchess party where he literally spawned in when we were all in an underground dead-end hallway – and we managed to cycle around in front and behind him to take him down.
If you get invaded and beat him, your Ults charge faster... if he beats YOU... you get cursed and take more damage from everything for the rest of the run, so it's a REALLY important thing not to split up too far on Day 2. Ideally, you're hoping that he doesn't invade so that you can face him as the boss of Day 2, and also because the cost of the time to take on his invasion doesn't offset all the things you lose out on. The one time that happened and I had a good run going is when we made it to the end of Night 2, and took on the Night Lord.
Draconic Tree Sentinel & Royal Cavalry Duo:
The pre-fight is a group of like Leyndell Knights & Soldiers – oh, and there's a big pool of water in the middle of the arena, so all those lightning effects are gonna have a whole section where they gain an AoE that'll catch you, and again, this will drain your resources even before the boss fight kicks off.
So not ONLY is this the same Malformed Tree Sentinel acting as the guardian to Leyndell/Malekith who's already oppressive in his base form, with his delayed hit lightning attacks, big AoE attacks, heavy weapon hits, and high mobility with his mount who also breathes fireballs... on top of that – he can now also do the Placidusax's Thundercloud Form to lock in on and crash down at a target... when a huge section of the arena will turn his lightning strikes into a massive AoE catch. And if that wasn't enough – now he's got two Lendell knights on horseback along with him, who will continue to fight if their mounts get killed (because unlike him, they're not a single entity)... but once they get downed, he ALSO gains the ability to summon spectral versions of them to do mounted charge attacks from either side of him – just like the Demi-Human Queen.
Especially because a good amount of the time, you get pushed into this AFTER confronting Morgott – meaning you're taking extra damage from everything OR you're under-leveled/equipped because you had to fight a boss during the day, you're being punished for getting unlucky. The best AoE spells are Lightning... which are significantly nerfed against Lightning-based enemies – and that also means that as Recluse it's VERY difficult to not accidentally toss Lightning into your Magic Cocktail to make it less effective or to suddenly dash you into a place you don't want to be and getting one-shot from it.
Suffice to say, I've never even gotten REMOTELY close to beating this fight.
NIGHT THREE: Gladius
If you beat the Night 2 boss, you get a big weird drippy mass in the middle that you use to go DIRECTLY to teleport into a Site of Grace with a Merchant to Level up and tweak your loadout for the boss fight, walk down a hallway & open a door. Interestingly what you're walking out of is a pale tree that looks VERY similar to something like a version of the Erdtree from Leyndell with the entryway and everything, and given that the Golden Tree is pushing back the Night Rain both times, there's some interesting stuff going on thematically, where this whole area feels like this weird extra-dimensional plane. By FAR some of the coolest stuff, and again – as this part of the gameplay loop hooks into the non-frantic testing & exploration, it's IMMENSELY interesting especially because you actually have time to look around and take stock of your surroundings before stepping through the door once everyone's ready.
So, here's how my one run went as Recluse at Level 13 (two from max), and going into the fight with 5 flasks because we were able to hit up a church both days, and I don't think we hit a SINGLE hiccup, because all three of us knew what our kits were and stayed really well coordinated the whole time.
Gladius has got a medium-range fire breath attack burst in a forward bone with a really quick wind up... which instantly one-shot me.
Got revived and kept my distance, but each death is about 3 extra hits to revive from. The massive arena and his sword attacks having a ridiculous AoE sweep means that I HAVE to stay farther back than Guardian & Duchess, because I literally don't have the capability to dodge those things, on top of needing to mitigate the fact that Fire damage is less than ideal because he's using that element all the time. Additionally, a lot of the good Lightning AoE spells will push you into close range as a Magic Cocktail, so extra caution there since I had a few good AoE spells like Ancient Dragon's Lightning Strike. We got to the point where he splits himself & then basically the second one person goes down, it's game over. You can't get over to an ally with two of them on you, and once again, targeting a downed comrade is WAY harder when you go from being 1 of 2 targetable entities to 1 of 4 (or for Recluse it goes from being 1 of 3 to being 1 of 5). Duchess & I both got downed at about the same time, and Guardian couldn't make it over with all 3 on him.
Before the fight, there's a preliminary collection of enemies that spawn. I know that they're a mob of like 8 Demi-Humans for the first boss, and I honestly can't remember for the second one. These will also potentially knock you into a less-than-ideal state to kick off the fight.
NIGHT ONE:
• The Centipede Demon:
I think that with every time I've fought it COMBINED, I've only even been HIT by it... MAYBE 4-5 times IN TOTAL, and I don't think I've ever even so much as been KO'd by it, and have NEVER died to it. Like... there's literally nothing to say here. It's a night & day difference. Yes, pieces break off of it, but you can rush those down solo before they ever hit you, so you basically have a single target the whole time, and he's jumping up into the sky like a third of the fight giving you all the time to heal or do whatever you want.
No matter how sub-optionally a run was going – this a goddamn cake walk that's just a free pass to Day 2.
• Demi-Human Queen & Demi-Human Swordman:
The Swordsman Bloodhound stepping with most of his moves means he's insanely hard to keep track of, and his attacks will one-shot Recluse even up to about level 7-8 (as will some of the Demi-Human Queen's magic). On top of that, when the Queen reaches about 1/2 HP, the arena will start constantly spawning random gold Demi-Humans so there are at least 4-5 extra targets on the field that are all the same size as the Swordman, which means he's even harder to consistently target. If you're a character like Recluse whose Skill has to target a particular entity and draw a specific elemental magic from something on the field – it's already insanely complicated even with just the two bosses... but this ALSO means that all characters have like 200% more lock-on targets to cycle past in order to target an ally if they get downed. The times that we've managed this have been when one of us randomly gets an utterly INSANE incantation drop like Ancient Dragon's Lightning Strike or Meteor Shower to just bombard everything in sight OR when there's a Duchess or Wylder who can single handledly keep the Swordman's aggro, and kite them to the opposite end of the arena and not get downed by just playing Cat & Mouse, while staying out of range of the Queen's magic.
This fight is OPPRESSIVE AS ALL HELL, and I'd say a good 60% of my runs have ended on this fight.
NIGHT TWO:
The Fell Omen:
Morgott's pre-boss fight are two Omens like the ones you fight on the ay to the Divine Tower to get his & Mohg's Great Runes in the base game. They're an absolute breeze. They spawn side-by-side, and you just rush them down into nothing.
Morgott himself is tough. On top of this, he can arbitrarily invade you in the middle of Day 2 (which happened to me 3 times in a row playing as Guardian, ironically the first two times he was targeting me directly when I had a weapon with the passive "Make you less likely to be targeted by enemies" equipped). The best thing is that there's a specific reticle locked onto whichever of your companions Morgott is hunting (also true in the boss fight). This means that you can tactically juggle aggro to have one of you focus on dodging, and the other two focus on kicking his ass, then as soon as the target swaps, if you're not targeted, you go assist the other party member who's downed. While in my early runs as Guardian he absolutely bodied me, on the second Test as Recluse, we had a Recluse, Recluse, Duchess party where he literally spawned in when we were all in an underground dead-end hallway – and we managed to cycle around in front and behind him to take him down.
If you get invaded and beat him, your Ults charge faster... if he beats YOU... you get cursed and take more damage from everything for the rest of the run, so it's a REALLY important thing not to split up too far on Day 2. Ideally, you're hoping that he doesn't invade so that you can face him as the boss of Day 2, and also because the cost of the time to take on his invasion doesn't offset all the things you lose out on. The one time that happened and I had a good run going is when we made it to the end of Night 2, and took on the Night Lord.
Draconic Tree Sentinel & Royal Cavalry Duo:
The pre-fight is a group of like Leyndell Knights & Soldiers – oh, and there's a big pool of water in the middle of the arena, so all those lightning effects are gonna have a whole section where they gain an AoE that'll catch you, and again, this will drain your resources even before the boss fight kicks off.
So not ONLY is this the same Malformed Tree Sentinel acting as the guardian to Leyndell/Malekith who's already oppressive in his base form, with his delayed hit lightning attacks, big AoE attacks, heavy weapon hits, and high mobility with his mount who also breathes fireballs... on top of that – he can now also do the Placidusax's Thundercloud Form to lock in on and crash down at a target... when a huge section of the arena will turn his lightning strikes into a massive AoE catch. And if that wasn't enough – now he's got two Lendell knights on horseback along with him, who will continue to fight if their mounts get killed (because unlike him, they're not a single entity)... but once they get downed, he ALSO gains the ability to summon spectral versions of them to do mounted charge attacks from either side of him – just like the Demi-Human Queen.
Especially because a good amount of the time, you get pushed into this AFTER confronting Morgott – meaning you're taking extra damage from everything OR you're under-leveled/equipped because you had to fight a boss during the day, you're being punished for getting unlucky. The best AoE spells are Lightning... which are significantly nerfed against Lightning-based enemies – and that also means that as Recluse it's VERY difficult to not accidentally toss Lightning into your Magic Cocktail to make it less effective or to suddenly dash you into a place you don't want to be and getting one-shot from it.
Suffice to say, I've never even gotten REMOTELY close to beating this fight.
NIGHT THREE: Gladius
If you beat the Night 2 boss, you get a big weird drippy mass in the middle that you use to go DIRECTLY to teleport into a Site of Grace with a Merchant to Level up and tweak your loadout for the boss fight, walk down a hallway & open a door. Interestingly what you're walking out of is a pale tree that looks VERY similar to something like a version of the Erdtree from Leyndell with the entryway and everything, and given that the Golden Tree is pushing back the Night Rain both times, there's some interesting stuff going on thematically, where this whole area feels like this weird extra-dimensional plane. By FAR some of the coolest stuff, and again – as this part of the gameplay loop hooks into the non-frantic testing & exploration, it's IMMENSELY interesting especially because you actually have time to look around and take stock of your surroundings before stepping through the door once everyone's ready.
So, here's how my one run went as Recluse at Level 13 (two from max), and going into the fight with 5 flasks because we were able to hit up a church both days, and I don't think we hit a SINGLE hiccup, because all three of us knew what our kits were and stayed really well coordinated the whole time.
Gladius has got a medium-range fire breath attack burst in a forward bone with a really quick wind up... which instantly one-shot me.
Got revived and kept my distance, but each death is about 3 extra hits to revive from. The massive arena and his sword attacks having a ridiculous AoE sweep means that I HAVE to stay farther back than Guardian & Duchess, because I literally don't have the capability to dodge those things, on top of needing to mitigate the fact that Fire damage is less than ideal because he's using that element all the time. Additionally, a lot of the good Lightning AoE spells will push you into close range as a Magic Cocktail, so extra caution there since I had a few good AoE spells like Ancient Dragon's Lightning Strike. We got to the point where he splits himself & then basically the second one person goes down, it's game over. You can't get over to an ally with two of them on you, and once again, targeting a downed comrade is WAY harder when you go from being 1 of 2 targetable entities to 1 of 4 (or for Recluse it goes from being 1 of 3 to being 1 of 5). Duchess & I both got downed at about the same time, and Guardian couldn't make it over with all 3 on him.
So, all of that out of the way, and me running on like 3-4 hours of sleep, and about to dive back into another session of this in 2 hours with Duchess – I've gotta say that...
I REALLY like it.
For the sort of thing that's an in-development slice of something where they're doing this primarily for testing the network stuff, it's extremely fun. The weirdest thing is un-wiring my brain to get it into this gameplay loop, and knowing what types of weapons work, what familiar items do. What's worth buying from a Merchant, how important leveling is by which point, etc. I figure that I'll have more collected thoughts by Sunday's final test. Given that the 20-23 test today is the third one I've done almost uninterrupted, I'm probably gonna sleep early rather than write a follow-up about Duchess.
The final two tests are at 12-15 Sunday and then 4-7am that "night" so, assuming all goes according to plan I'll be doing Wylder during Sunday, and then the very last one I'll honestly probably just be back with Recluse since I've had far and away the most fun with her. (Since you have to manage SO MUCH with her kit – but also because I've been playing Elden Ring maxed out and just using whatever spells and things I want for fun, it's got a lot of the same appeal to making various magic builds, and knowing what things overlap & work together). Also, post-Wylder I'll have a window where I can actually look up anything by other people who've been playing this for tips & whatnot before my final play session.
As such – I'll probably make my follow-up post about the Nightreign Closed Network Test some time on Monday.
EDIT:
Just played the third session and wanted to add in my thoughts now. Duchess is INSANELY lightweight. Her double dodge and overall agility and the timing with her stuff makes her top-notch for survivability. She's great for rushdown, and can use basically whatever weapons with ease. I FINALLY have a Relic Rite that works for the proper character that causes the final hit of a combo to re-trigger and hit nearby enemies which is insane for crowd control.
Despite all of that, there's not quite enough variation to her kit to keep me hooked into the core gameplay loop with her... and I think that I'm gonna feel the same way about Wylder, since they have similar types of kits that are suited to specialize in the regular Souls-like combat loop, and Wylder is about pushing in and engaging whereas she's more about floating in & out with disengaging tactics. Guardian has the shield-counter & diving from above AoE that I find interesting, but his crowd clear whirlwind is really well-suited to making him an aggressive tank who can also help manage the pace of the fight (he's a godsend in tough fights with a heavy weapon to rapidly res).
...but I've gotten REALLY hooked on the bigger complexity part so I went back to Recluse.
There's just something about managing the different elements that is SO satisfying, and is a weird chores challenge that just grabs every facet of my brain, because it's dynamically shifting as the composition of your party happens upon new things. I haven't QUITE got all of them memorized yet, but I'm getting pretty close – and that alone feels like it's a satisfying reason to lock in more time on her. (The only thing that I have as feedback on her kit is the same as the Relic Rites – they need to use the unique visual indicators and not just change the colors 'cause colorblind folks should be able to use that without having to guess).
So – how'd that go?
My first match once I did had a Guardian who was just aggressively spear-heading through everything and the Wylder & I were just trying to keep up with his fixed route through the map. We all got good gear, and took out the Demi-Human Duo, got Invaded by Morgott targeting the Guardian, summarily beat the Draconic Tree Sentinel, and made it to Gladius. We were going through the fight SUPER smoothly... and then the only hard disconnect I've had the whole time dropped me to the title screen.
The match after that was just one other person, so probably some network hiccups. The session after had a Duchess & Wylder, and we got the Centipede Demon & Morgott into the final battle. Had good gear, Made it through until he had about 1/6th or less of his HP remaining, and then just got unlucky with both Duchess & Wylder BARELY not being out of his AoE, getting downed simultaneously as I was in a casting animation for Magic Cocktail and got taken out before I could pivot to do anything.
The last 20 mins was one where there was a Duchess getting perpetually lost who eventually d/c'd, and the Wylder & I meandered around the map with me leading, and managed to beat the Demi-Human Duo with just the two of us, and were fighting through some other stuff when the test session eventually closed and dropped us both from the game.
The MASSIVE downside to getting disconnected vs. dying is that you pick up Relic Rites no matter what point you get to in a run when you're defeated, and they're better the farther you get. However... the disconnection just hard resets you to the Roundtable Hold, so the match that we blitzed through and conquered didn't net us anything. I'm curious how they'll handle that sort of thing in the proper game.
Lastly, when you beat the second boss, you go to the "Spirit Sanctuary" to fight the Night Lord, and you do that by walking into this liquid of anti-gravity bubbles that appear in the middle of the Golden Tree and float you up there. There's a whole cycle to the Tree appearing & pushing back the Night that's around in how it grows the whole time & appears that's really REALLY interesting. Also, while in Limveld you interact with Merchants that're just there in ethereal form (so you don't accidentally attack them), sometimes the one who appears in the Spirit Sanctuary is just... part of the room. Like it's like the Divine Gateway where everything is all just made of the same eerie pale material.
The little nuances and details behind all the designs are SUPER facinating as is the fact that when Morgott invades you it attempts to bring the Night early. It reminded me of how in the base game Morgott used to command the Night's Watchmen and there's the whole mechanic where they & the Death Rite Birds will appear during the night time ...and then there's the hour where the Erdtree's blessing gets strong just before the dawn and makes you collect more Runes. I think that there's some core world-building theme that we're getting to see from a slightly different direction in a way that's really neat.
It's getting easier to get a sense of what to do on the map, but even after 9 hours I'm nowhere CLOSE to feeling fully familiar with how to get around & everything that's there. Ok, goin' ta sleep and NOW I expect to make a follow-up post on Monday.
X
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
So, the last two sessions of the Network test were an absolute blast.
First is that them re-enabling Passwords which they had to disable to stabilize the network loads after the first day did make things a little less stable, but it wasn't too bad. The positive is that this also improved the overall quality in matches, since as a solo random, you'd be more likely to get paired with Password Duos just needing a third player.
I managed to get through and beat the final boss with a Duchess pair where we took out bosses and went to regions of the map I'd never seen before. We beat an Ancient Dragon in an Evergaol, and took out various ruins & other things with just monstrous efficiency, and by Day 2 we happened into an INSANELY effective build where one of them had a Fire weapon that could bleed, the other had a Rivers of Blood ability, and my offhand L2 spell was Adula's Moonblade to trigger Frostbite, which the fire reset – so we were bursting out %based damage on bosses, which they could rapidly Rewind & re-trigger & my Ultimate allowed us to heal back from. The Centipede Demon didn't stand a chance even before we got properly kitted up, and Morgott was locked onto targeting me for the Boss fight, which let me just kite him around & cast when he paused to attack as those two's speed let them absolutely rip into him to pieces. Gladius was a bit of a challenge, but the mobility those two had made reviving easy, and I can revive at range, so even at Level 13, he went down hard and we were just popping a barrage of unused consumables in victory together at the end.
I had other matches, but they're a bit fuzzy and I can't quite recall many of the other matches, but it was very back-to-back, and I just kept playing Recluse the whole time. (Oh, and I remembered that the pre-Centipede Demon fight are a bunch of Finger Creepers)
The final test I just took it easier, and tried a password for a little community of a Japanese Souls streamer I follow. I got to play a couple games with the JP folk there where the quality made up for taking a while to find matches (and the latency wasn't a problem at all in those matches). I found out that you can change equipment in the practice arena so I practiced various Magic Cocktail combos (which I have mostly memorized now aside from the non-magic ones) while waiting, and then did a couple random matches again to end out the test – and was reminded that some runs can go comically poorly but still be fun. First are my two Password Runs.
The first one was my most memorable one. I paired up with a Wylder & Duchess, and the Duchess disconnected in the first minute, so we ran the entire thing as a duo. He had locations well-optimized and we blitzed through everything with absolutely crazy efficiency. We beat Centipede Demon & Morgott and made it into the final boss with the help of some INSANE abilities, like that I triggered Founding Rain of Stars while walking, as well as activating Holy Land at low HP. We got Gladius down to about 1/6th of his health when an unlucky swing caught him going to revive me. Just CRAZY fun against the odds.
The next match sync'd back up with that same Wylder & a Guardian (who apparently was trying him for the first time). This one took us all the way, and while I didn't have ANY really insane passive abilities this time around. We lucked into another Centipede & Morgott run and managed to hit max level, but this time around I ended up having a staff with Stars of Ruin & Rennala's Full Moon. While Rennala's Full Moon is amazing still, Stars of Ruin is an utterly GOD TIER spell – but for a different reason than you'd expect. One of Recluse's most common assets are Glintstone Pebble & Night Comet, because they're amazing for targeting & reviving an ally at range. Night Comet will even penetrate to damage a boss while targeted to your ally. So... founding Rain of Stars blasts out 12 targeted hits, which means that you can target and revive a downed ally from range – even if they're at 3 bars.
Lastly, the final match I had was a double Duchess where we got into the issue of being dropped by the Crystalian. We couldn't beat her, lost thousands of Runes, got stuck at level 1 for ages, and one of the Duchesses dropped after we got stuck. However, the other stayed on, and was clearly a new player, so I took point, highlighted some spots & ran us through things as best I could to get us some gear, and we were only level 4 by the time the Night 1 boss arrived, rather than being closer to level 8 like you'd typically be able to reach. That being said, I lucked into a Demi-Human Staff that only needed me to be Level 3 to use it which had Meteorite of Astel on it, and at the very last Rise we visited as the Rains hit, I got a Flask that eliminates FP usage for a time. So, as the Centipede Demon dropped down and then leapt into the sky, I had a non-stop hail of Meteors crashing down on him without cease for like 15 seconds, and got him to about 1/2 HP with the Duchess' rewing assistance. With a little bit of a struggle we took him out and moved on as the test window was about to wrap up. We fought some first tanks, which reminded me that Recluse's elemental nature means that she really needs a single strong physical character or two Duchesses working in tandem to effectively take them out since matching elements with their resistances doesn't help (same issue as the Crystalian).
And that closed things out on a bit of a casual laugh that even when a run is kinda going to shit... it's still a BLAST to play and give it your best attempt anyway!
The sprinting controls is already something that going back to Elden Ring has me crouching when I want to dash, so the muscle memory is strong. It's also hard to overstate JUST how satisfying the gameplay in general is at that elevated above realism level of leaping off of cliffs and speeding in a trio towards targets, even as the core of the Souls combat is still there, but with the character Skills & Ultimates all giving it something extra for a depth that's more than just your equipment loadout.
It still has some little oddities that are as expected of an in-development build, and so I shared feedback on both the open JP survey & the direct EN one I got sent. The English one had an open comment field for ~4000 characters, whereas the JP survey had a ton of comment fields with ~2000 characters each (a single of which is WAY more content in Japanese than 4000 characters in English). I did the JP on as I was passing out for the night, and did the EN one just a few minutes ago, so I've got that here:
There're some REALLY fascinating Lore tidbits all over the place in the visuals, and it wasn't until the day where I was taking it a bit more easily & had people to more reliably run point that I really got to notice things like the changes in the sky, the crazy ethereal structure way off in the distance, and various other things. There are apparently other "Night Invasion" events, like one where a swarm of ants attack you, and oddly I only ever encountered that alone in a ravine on my very first run, where I thought those were just the normal enemies in that particular lowpoint of the map. Curious what that'll be like as there're more of them in the full game.
Additionally, the map content DOES change a bit between runs – The Crystalian at the top of the castle will occasionally be a Golem with a bow & arrow instead and the whole fort will be Leyndell Soldiers with an Omen in the basement, rather than Mages & Finger Creepers, some of the layout of where various things are located changes as well. It's... a lot more different than you think that it is with only a few hours in.
I had a couple runs where we ran through the mines grabbing Smithing Stones, which is something that I think would feel worth it only on Day 2 if you KNOW you have an equipment tier you're gonna keep, but provides some interesting alternatives. There are also some strategies using the Spirit Springs facing the opposite direction to bypass to the top of a fort and rush down bosses, or use the Spirit Hawk to drop out of the sky into a church at a map edge and then rush back from another direction. The more I played, the more I'd end up seeing things I hadn't run into even as I was heading towards where familiar things were, and got to learn tactics from other players.
The way that the different types of equipment are located in certain areas is really handy. There're equipment stands with Bows and others with Staffs, and they often tend to be in towers where you'd expect ranged weapons, whereas Seals are usually on tables, and regular weapons are in chests.
Lastly, the Relic Rites have up to 3 different effects, and they can be REALLY powerful like boosting stamina regen of all allies, increasing rune gain, using your flasks heals everyone in the party, and various other things. Really just... something that makes me eagerly anticipate the end of May to build up those, which helps to incentivize trying out other characters (especially because the Murk currency exists but didn't have a way to use it that I could see in this build).
REALLY looking forward to May 30th, (and hope that maybe in the future they'll support cross-platform play, but it's clear they're still pretty new at this, and that's a lot to tackle with it being VERY make or break to the whole experience).
X
First is that them re-enabling Passwords which they had to disable to stabilize the network loads after the first day did make things a little less stable, but it wasn't too bad. The positive is that this also improved the overall quality in matches, since as a solo random, you'd be more likely to get paired with Password Duos just needing a third player.
I managed to get through and beat the final boss with a Duchess pair where we took out bosses and went to regions of the map I'd never seen before. We beat an Ancient Dragon in an Evergaol, and took out various ruins & other things with just monstrous efficiency, and by Day 2 we happened into an INSANELY effective build where one of them had a Fire weapon that could bleed, the other had a Rivers of Blood ability, and my offhand L2 spell was Adula's Moonblade to trigger Frostbite, which the fire reset – so we were bursting out %based damage on bosses, which they could rapidly Rewind & re-trigger & my Ultimate allowed us to heal back from. The Centipede Demon didn't stand a chance even before we got properly kitted up, and Morgott was locked onto targeting me for the Boss fight, which let me just kite him around & cast when he paused to attack as those two's speed let them absolutely rip into him to pieces. Gladius was a bit of a challenge, but the mobility those two had made reviving easy, and I can revive at range, so even at Level 13, he went down hard and we were just popping a barrage of unused consumables in victory together at the end.
I had other matches, but they're a bit fuzzy and I can't quite recall many of the other matches, but it was very back-to-back, and I just kept playing Recluse the whole time. (Oh, and I remembered that the pre-Centipede Demon fight are a bunch of Finger Creepers)
The final test I just took it easier, and tried a password for a little community of a Japanese Souls streamer I follow. I got to play a couple games with the JP folk there where the quality made up for taking a while to find matches (and the latency wasn't a problem at all in those matches). I found out that you can change equipment in the practice arena so I practiced various Magic Cocktail combos (which I have mostly memorized now aside from the non-magic ones) while waiting, and then did a couple random matches again to end out the test – and was reminded that some runs can go comically poorly but still be fun. First are my two Password Runs.
The first one was my most memorable one. I paired up with a Wylder & Duchess, and the Duchess disconnected in the first minute, so we ran the entire thing as a duo. He had locations well-optimized and we blitzed through everything with absolutely crazy efficiency. We beat Centipede Demon & Morgott and made it into the final boss with the help of some INSANE abilities, like that I triggered Founding Rain of Stars while walking, as well as activating Holy Land at low HP. We got Gladius down to about 1/6th of his health when an unlucky swing caught him going to revive me. Just CRAZY fun against the odds.
The next match sync'd back up with that same Wylder & a Guardian (who apparently was trying him for the first time). This one took us all the way, and while I didn't have ANY really insane passive abilities this time around. We lucked into another Centipede & Morgott run and managed to hit max level, but this time around I ended up having a staff with Stars of Ruin & Rennala's Full Moon. While Rennala's Full Moon is amazing still, Stars of Ruin is an utterly GOD TIER spell – but for a different reason than you'd expect. One of Recluse's most common assets are Glintstone Pebble & Night Comet, because they're amazing for targeting & reviving an ally at range. Night Comet will even penetrate to damage a boss while targeted to your ally. So... founding Rain of Stars blasts out 12 targeted hits, which means that you can target and revive a downed ally from range – even if they're at 3 bars.
Lastly, the final match I had was a double Duchess where we got into the issue of being dropped by the Crystalian. We couldn't beat her, lost thousands of Runes, got stuck at level 1 for ages, and one of the Duchesses dropped after we got stuck. However, the other stayed on, and was clearly a new player, so I took point, highlighted some spots & ran us through things as best I could to get us some gear, and we were only level 4 by the time the Night 1 boss arrived, rather than being closer to level 8 like you'd typically be able to reach. That being said, I lucked into a Demi-Human Staff that only needed me to be Level 3 to use it which had Meteorite of Astel on it, and at the very last Rise we visited as the Rains hit, I got a Flask that eliminates FP usage for a time. So, as the Centipede Demon dropped down and then leapt into the sky, I had a non-stop hail of Meteors crashing down on him without cease for like 15 seconds, and got him to about 1/2 HP with the Duchess' rewing assistance. With a little bit of a struggle we took him out and moved on as the test window was about to wrap up. We fought some first tanks, which reminded me that Recluse's elemental nature means that she really needs a single strong physical character or two Duchesses working in tandem to effectively take them out since matching elements with their resistances doesn't help (same issue as the Crystalian).
And that closed things out on a bit of a casual laugh that even when a run is kinda going to shit... it's still a BLAST to play and give it your best attempt anyway!
The sprinting controls is already something that going back to Elden Ring has me crouching when I want to dash, so the muscle memory is strong. It's also hard to overstate JUST how satisfying the gameplay in general is at that elevated above realism level of leaping off of cliffs and speeding in a trio towards targets, even as the core of the Souls combat is still there, but with the character Skills & Ultimates all giving it something extra for a depth that's more than just your equipment loadout.
It still has some little oddities that are as expected of an in-development build, and so I shared feedback on both the open JP survey & the direct EN one I got sent. The English one had an open comment field for ~4000 characters, whereas the JP survey had a ton of comment fields with ~2000 characters each (a single of which is WAY more content in Japanese than 4000 characters in English). I did the JP on as I was passing out for the night, and did the EN one just a few minutes ago, so I've got that here:
Things that would be extremely desirable with Recluse & some general improvements to the UI:
• Being able to remap the Skill/Ultimate controls (∆+L2 & ∆+R2) to swap with the two-handing controls (∆+L1 & ∆+R1). Especially for Recluse needing to use her Magic Cocktail skill constantly in battle & quickly after casting a spell, hitting a button (R1/L1) is MUCH faster than pulling an adaptive trigger (L2/R2). Plus, it's a Skill used to recover FP, so if the ∆ hold doesn't register, accidentally triggering an L2 Weapon Art or Spell COSTS a LOT of FP & takes a long time to recover from vs. accidentally triggering an L1/R1 attack/spell.
• There should be additional UI for the Magic/Fire/Holy/Lightning elemental affinity on a target beyond only just the change in color. Fights have a lot of active visual effects, so it's especially difficult to distinguish between the 4 elements (especially Holy & Lightning) & the Magic Cocktail that you get from combining them are all VERY different. That's a critically important strategy to streamline so (and so it isn't impacted by colorblindness). Having a unique appearance magical/burning/electrical/holy shape to the circling effects or using the small icons that appear in Recluse's Ultimate on the target would be extremely helpful (even if it's just something extra you can toggle on/off from settings).
• The UI for the character Skills & Ultimates charging & being ready is currently VERY difficult to read from peripheral vision. Recluse's absorbed elements should be slightly brighter, so that it's easier to tell which ones you have, and the skill/ultimate icons should be a bit brighter when ready vs. inactive. Also, rather than filling up from the bottom, a rotating circle (like the death timer) is a MUCH better way to be able to understand how close your abilities are to being recharged, so that you can have a reliable rhythm to using them on cooldown & the pace of battles is easier to make efficient use of them all.
• Related: The circling timer for how long an ally has left before they die & reset during the Day Cycles are nearly impossible to see, whereas the 1/3 bars you have to eliminate are VERY prominent. This timer also feels like it goes by a couple seconds little too quickly, as I think that almost all of my deaths during the day cycle had an ally jumping/swinging to hit me, or attempting to target me when the timer ran out and I died in front of them & lost a level. Making that easier to see and maybe 2 seconds longer could make a really big difference especially in the first 1-4 levels during a run.
• The main UI should indicate when you have enough Runes to level up. That's an important decision to be able to make quickly, since running to a site of Grace can be out of the way & being 300 Runes short and needing to dash off to kill one enemy & run back feels antithetical to the fast-paced game loop.
• It's hard to tell when your character stops dashing, which sometimes makes you toggle it off accidentally when hitting an obstacle, so some UI help to that would be nice.
Misc:
• It'd be nice if the cursor snapped to the map icon locations more easily for Pins, since you almost never need to pin to an arbitrary location.
• Being able to attempt a password 2-player-only run would be fun, since you have to do that if a player drops connection during a 3-player game.
Lastly, on the pacing:
• Even sprinting through everywhere with two Relic Rites for bonus Runes, I almost always ended runs at Level 13 in these tests. If getting to Level 15 by reaching the Spirit Sanctuary is slightly easier, then the pace of the Day Cycle will feel a bit better. Right now, the Night Rain coming in doesn't feel like a rush... because EVERYTHING is a rush. Even for players at max level during Day 2, there's still HUGE value in hurrying to unlock new equipment & unique effects from defeating tough field enemies & saving more Runes for the Spirit Shelter Merchant.
Can't wait for the full release in May!!
• Being able to remap the Skill/Ultimate controls (∆+L2 & ∆+R2) to swap with the two-handing controls (∆+L1 & ∆+R1). Especially for Recluse needing to use her Magic Cocktail skill constantly in battle & quickly after casting a spell, hitting a button (R1/L1) is MUCH faster than pulling an adaptive trigger (L2/R2). Plus, it's a Skill used to recover FP, so if the ∆ hold doesn't register, accidentally triggering an L2 Weapon Art or Spell COSTS a LOT of FP & takes a long time to recover from vs. accidentally triggering an L1/R1 attack/spell.
• There should be additional UI for the Magic/Fire/Holy/Lightning elemental affinity on a target beyond only just the change in color. Fights have a lot of active visual effects, so it's especially difficult to distinguish between the 4 elements (especially Holy & Lightning) & the Magic Cocktail that you get from combining them are all VERY different. That's a critically important strategy to streamline so (and so it isn't impacted by colorblindness). Having a unique appearance magical/burning/electrical/holy shape to the circling effects or using the small icons that appear in Recluse's Ultimate on the target would be extremely helpful (even if it's just something extra you can toggle on/off from settings).
• The UI for the character Skills & Ultimates charging & being ready is currently VERY difficult to read from peripheral vision. Recluse's absorbed elements should be slightly brighter, so that it's easier to tell which ones you have, and the skill/ultimate icons should be a bit brighter when ready vs. inactive. Also, rather than filling up from the bottom, a rotating circle (like the death timer) is a MUCH better way to be able to understand how close your abilities are to being recharged, so that you can have a reliable rhythm to using them on cooldown & the pace of battles is easier to make efficient use of them all.
• Related: The circling timer for how long an ally has left before they die & reset during the Day Cycles are nearly impossible to see, whereas the 1/3 bars you have to eliminate are VERY prominent. This timer also feels like it goes by a couple seconds little too quickly, as I think that almost all of my deaths during the day cycle had an ally jumping/swinging to hit me, or attempting to target me when the timer ran out and I died in front of them & lost a level. Making that easier to see and maybe 2 seconds longer could make a really big difference especially in the first 1-4 levels during a run.
• The main UI should indicate when you have enough Runes to level up. That's an important decision to be able to make quickly, since running to a site of Grace can be out of the way & being 300 Runes short and needing to dash off to kill one enemy & run back feels antithetical to the fast-paced game loop.
• It's hard to tell when your character stops dashing, which sometimes makes you toggle it off accidentally when hitting an obstacle, so some UI help to that would be nice.
Misc:
• It'd be nice if the cursor snapped to the map icon locations more easily for Pins, since you almost never need to pin to an arbitrary location.
• Being able to attempt a password 2-player-only run would be fun, since you have to do that if a player drops connection during a 3-player game.
Lastly, on the pacing:
• Even sprinting through everywhere with two Relic Rites for bonus Runes, I almost always ended runs at Level 13 in these tests. If getting to Level 15 by reaching the Spirit Sanctuary is slightly easier, then the pace of the Day Cycle will feel a bit better. Right now, the Night Rain coming in doesn't feel like a rush... because EVERYTHING is a rush. Even for players at max level during Day 2, there's still HUGE value in hurrying to unlock new equipment & unique effects from defeating tough field enemies & saving more Runes for the Spirit Shelter Merchant.
Can't wait for the full release in May!!
There're some REALLY fascinating Lore tidbits all over the place in the visuals, and it wasn't until the day where I was taking it a bit more easily & had people to more reliably run point that I really got to notice things like the changes in the sky, the crazy ethereal structure way off in the distance, and various other things. There are apparently other "Night Invasion" events, like one where a swarm of ants attack you, and oddly I only ever encountered that alone in a ravine on my very first run, where I thought those were just the normal enemies in that particular lowpoint of the map. Curious what that'll be like as there're more of them in the full game.
Additionally, the map content DOES change a bit between runs – The Crystalian at the top of the castle will occasionally be a Golem with a bow & arrow instead and the whole fort will be Leyndell Soldiers with an Omen in the basement, rather than Mages & Finger Creepers, some of the layout of where various things are located changes as well. It's... a lot more different than you think that it is with only a few hours in.
I had a couple runs where we ran through the mines grabbing Smithing Stones, which is something that I think would feel worth it only on Day 2 if you KNOW you have an equipment tier you're gonna keep, but provides some interesting alternatives. There are also some strategies using the Spirit Springs facing the opposite direction to bypass to the top of a fort and rush down bosses, or use the Spirit Hawk to drop out of the sky into a church at a map edge and then rush back from another direction. The more I played, the more I'd end up seeing things I hadn't run into even as I was heading towards where familiar things were, and got to learn tactics from other players.
The way that the different types of equipment are located in certain areas is really handy. There're equipment stands with Bows and others with Staffs, and they often tend to be in towers where you'd expect ranged weapons, whereas Seals are usually on tables, and regular weapons are in chests.
Lastly, the Relic Rites have up to 3 different effects, and they can be REALLY powerful like boosting stamina regen of all allies, increasing rune gain, using your flasks heals everyone in the party, and various other things. Really just... something that makes me eagerly anticipate the end of May to build up those, which helps to incentivize trying out other characters (especially because the Murk currency exists but didn't have a way to use it that I could see in this build).
REALLY looking forward to May 30th, (and hope that maybe in the future they'll support cross-platform play, but it's clear they're still pretty new at this, and that's a lot to tackle with it being VERY make or break to the whole experience).
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