So I was thinking.....one of the most used arguments I heard people use to not accepting Cloud and Tifa as a canon couple was their lack of PDA. "They don't act like a couple!" they said, so now that Remake is out I'm really curious if this argument still stands since Remake!Cloti can't keep their hands off each other
Anyway, thank you guys for being so considerate! I have watched the playthrough of the OG and currently playing the remake (though I also already know what happens because I like spoiling myself lol). I have to say though, since Aerith is alive and with the message at the end of the game, I'm a little apprehensive of drastic changes in the story. (Like what if they kill Tifa. Man I really hope not, just typing that hurts)
I doubt SE will do it like that---much more kill Tifa. She won't be able to fulfill her role in the story if she dies. Furthermore, even if Aerith lives, I don't think SE will throw a curve ball at the players and make her end with Cloud considering the amount of unresolved tension Cloud and Tifa has in Part 1 of the Remake. They can't just plant all these seeds for a Cloud and Tifa resolution, only for it to not go anywhere with it and not give it a payoff. That's not subversion but just utter betrayal of audience's expectations as directed by the narrative. Granted they kinda did the same with Aerith in the OG, but that's different because of their roles in the story and in Cloud's arc (and hers was a perfect subversion that betrays nothing in the narrative).
Tifa is just too necessary and intimately woven for Cloud's arc that to remove her, his entire arc would crumble (because she is literally the reason that kickstarted his arc). In the Remake, this connection is made even more palpable from the very beginning, thus, pulling an Aerith with Tifa before Cloud's arc is resolved is just impossible. And the resolution of Cloud's arc involves the reveal of his feelings for Tifa. While Cloud and Tifa can grow as persons separately, their stories and arcs just cannot be divorced from each other.
So I was thinking.....one of the most used arguments I heard people use to not accepting Cloud and Tifa as a canon couple was their lack of PDA. "They don't act like a couple!"
But is PDA what makes a couple canon? Because most (if not all) of the canon couples in Dragonball has almost nil PDAs despite all of them having children. Doesn't make them any less canon.
Be warned though, make sure you read the rules of that thread. The rules tend to be strictly enforced in there due to the nature of the conversation. It is an interesting place to read different point of views and to have your view points challenged. Please don't feel discouraged when I say this but it can get pretty hectic in there.
Like others have said, in here the Cloti Club, we are mostly Cloud X Tifa shippers and are pretty mellow. Enjoy your stay!
But is PDA what makes a couple canon? Because most (if not all) of the canon couples in Dragonball has almost nil PDAs despite all of them having children. Doesn't make them any less canon.
Oh, I ultimately agree with you! I personally don't think it's necessary at all. Not just in DB, but pretty much most shounen couple lacks PDA.
My comment was more direct to the argument itself. Something that I heard a lot throughout the years ( when ppl runner out of arguments to disprove them, this one would always show up), but now not even this one is valid anymore since Remake kinda killed it for good o/
Oh, I ultimately agree with you! I personally don't think it's necessary at all. Not just in DB, but pretty much most shounen couple lacks PDA.
My comment was more direct to the argument itself. Something that I heard a lot throughout the years ( when ppl runner out of arguments to disprove them, this one would always show up), but now not even this one is valid anymore since Remake kinda killed it for good o/
Goku has canonically never kissed chi chi and only married her because he thought marriage was a type of food if I remember correctly. STILL a canon couple
Someone else said described it perfectly for me, cloti body language/the lingering looks/in the touches, the kind of touches that are only reserved for each other. It's a love language and sometimes you need to experience it yourself to understand. I could get people reading it as platonic in the most extreme case, but fortunately scenes like the train roll exist.
I was commenting on someone else's tweet with the "train roll" gif a while back. The scene was slowed down just a bit that I noticed their legs are intertwined in this scene. Most people drew fanart with them differently, but Tifa's right leg is actually in between Cloud's, and her thighs are practically straddling his right leg. That's a really weird way to go about showing them being platonic to me.
Sometimes I am so confused about this world. If a woman can even accept and be resolved to take care of such a broken man on a wheel chair without knowing when he will come back. And the man has half of his conscious life fulfilled with the feeling towards her, 8 years out of 16 years before he is broken if I am correct. Why not some of people just give the bless to them and leave the LTD end instead of insisting it's just a child romance and one-sided from the woman?
Verse, are you the Mideel Nurse? Oh, man. How long did she take care of him in Mideel? Tifa's a keeper imo.
@Yumelinh I'm still waiting for my Japanese copy of the book, as well as the Turks novel, but from what I've read:
Honestly, Nojima's prose wasn't that great. It read more like character snippets for me, and scenes seriously lacked description. But, Cloud talking to Tifa about building a new life with her by his side in "a different way" felt like a proposal. Them visiting Aerith's grave together, and Cloud putting his hand on her shoulder to comfort her? That wasn't him turning her down or rejecting her like I was lead to believe at first.
Seemed like they were in a honeymoon phase at the start, laughing together, drinking together, and then, after the honeymoon phase wore off, they started discovering annoying things about each other that any normal couple does when they adjust to married life. But that doesn't mean they can't or didn't work out. Obviously from what I saw in AC (and now ACC), that look Tifa gave Cloud, and that shy smile he returned, meant things would work out just fine.
Goku has canonically never kissed chi chi and only married her because he thought marriage was a type of food if I remember correctly. STILL a canon couple
I ship no one in DB but even I call bullshit on that. One of the many many reasons I don't consider DBS (Dragonball BullShit) to ever happen, although I was told that was an error on translation or the joke not coming across well (that is, a misunderstanding between Goku and Vegeta). But either way, I don't really care because that show and its characters (more like caricatures) are dead to me.
I ship no one in DB but even I call bullshit on that. One of the many many reasons I don't consider DBS (Dragonball BullShit) to ever happen, although I was told that was an error on translation or the joke not coming across well (that is, a misunderstanding between Goku and Vegeta). But either way, I don't really care because that show and its characters (more like caricatures) are dead to me.
I was commenting on someone else's tweet with the "train roll" gif a while back. The scene was slowed down just a bit that I noticed their legs are intertwined in this scene. Most people drew fanart with them differently, but Tifa's right leg is actually in between Cloud's, and her thighs are practically straddling his right leg. That's a really weird way to go about showing them being platonic to me.
Verse, are you the Mideel Nurse? Oh, man. How long did she take care of him in Mideel? Tifa's a keeper imo.
Honestly, Nojima's prose wasn't that great. It read more like character snippets for me, and scenes seriously lacked description. But, Cloud talking to Tifa about building a new life with her by his side in "a different way" felt like a proposal. Them visiting Aerith's grave together, and Cloud putting his hand on her shoulder to comfort her? That wasn't him turning her down or rejecting her like I was lead to believe at first.
Seemed like they were in a honeymoon phase at the start, laughing together, drinking together, and then, after the honeymoon phase wore off, they started discovering annoying things about each other that any normal couple does when they adjust to married life. But that doesn't mean they can't or didn't work out. Obviously from what I saw in AC (and now ACC), that look Tifa gave Cloud, and that shy smile he returned, meant things would work out just fine.
I ship no one in DB but even I call bullshit on that. One of the many many reasons I don't consider DBS (Dragonball BullShit) to ever happen, although I was told that was an error on translation or the joke not coming across well (that is, a misunderstanding between Goku and Vegeta). But either way, I don't really care because that show and its characters (more like caricatures) are dead to me.
Not that one, I've seen and read OG DB and that was funny the first time. More the joke that he never kissed his wife whom he fathered two kids with. Never made sense to me and is just not funny. Makes adult Goku more into a creeep, imo.
I never muched cared because dragonball is basically the one show where I really don't care about romance, it's just not why I watch it.
But I think I've heard Akira Toriyama say something about Goku not really understanding love or something like that, and that he saw his wife and family more like battle partners, which is really messed up if true.
But to be honest, the only good writing in that show to me was always vegetas character progression, never cared for Goku and it always just felt like mostly mindless action to me. The dynamic between Goku and Vegeta are what made that entire show for me.
I like Goku, but because Goku is stupid. In DBZ he's also a horrible father so there's that. Vegeta though, now he has a great character progression and arc <3
I'm so out of the loop. I haven't watched a single episode of DB/DBZ. I just remember my brothers watching it, and all I remember the characters doing was standing around shouting or talking, and like, maybe a couple of seconds of fighting.
I don't remember it either. Just saw it on Twitter last night. I think it's when you revisit Mideel and talk to the nurse. Need to add her to the Cloti support roster.
Also, from my years of being the lonely nerd girl who plays otome games, I've never known this pose to be platonic:
It's so commonly used. Like whenever my the hero is protecting me the MC.
Thanks for the correction! I remembered that nurse as a cloti shipper lol, and somehow I thought she said "took care of". Keeper is the fact, but I simply think Tifa must be resolved to not only watch over and take care of Cloud at very first beginning. But anyway, fact is the fact, Tifa decided to accompany vegetable Cloud.
I like Goku, but because Goku is stupid. In DBZ he's also a horrible father so there's that. Vegeta though, now he has a great character progression and arc <3
I was commenting on someone else's tweet with the "train roll" gif a while back. The scene was slowed down just a bit that I noticed their legs are intertwined in this scene. Most people drew fanart with them differently, but Tifa's right leg is actually in between Cloud's, and her thighs are practically straddling his right leg. That's a really weird way to go about showing them being platonic to me.
Verse, are you the Mideel Nurse? Oh, man. How long did she take care of him in Mideel? Tifa's a keeper imo.
Honestly, Nojima's prose wasn't that great. It read more like character snippets for me, and scenes seriously lacked description. But, Cloud talking to Tifa about building a new life with her by his side in "a different way" felt like a proposal. Them visiting Aerith's grave together, and Cloud putting his hand on her shoulder to comfort her? That wasn't him turning her down or rejecting her like I was lead to believe at first.
Seemed like they were in a honeymoon phase at the start, laughing together, drinking together, and then, after the honeymoon phase wore off, they started discovering annoying things about each other that any normal couple does when they adjust to married life. But that doesn't mean they can't or didn't work out. Obviously from what I saw in AC (and now ACC), that look Tifa gave Cloud, and that shy smile he returned, meant things would work out just fine.
Sorry new here didn't mean to post this. Was in the middle of putting my thoughts down but well doing it on my phone, stupid idea.
Anyway while Im typing. I wondered what you guys think of other characters in the franchise like Locke, Lulu and Edward who lost loved ones and had to deal with loss and move on.
Dont get why some cleirth shippers still see Cloud at the end of ACC pinning for Aerith like he is forbidden by her to find happiness from a potiential other particular with Tifa in their minds.
Dont get why some cleirth shippers still see Cloud at the end of ACC pinning for Aerith like he is forbidden by her to find happiness from a potiential other particular with Tifa in their minds.
One Cloud X Aerith argument that I always found hilarious when it is mentioned. Is the argument against the Zack and Aerith pairing, It is when Aerith says "Look Forward, Not backwards." Those very words are detrimental to the CLoud X Aerith pairing. Without you ever realizing it you are discrediting your own argument.
I guess when you are set in your ways one does not think that the same rule should apply to both situations. We can only move on when it is about Zack and Aerith. (2 plus year relationship) so it is alright for Aerith to move on to be with Cloud But, when it is about Aerith and Cloud (1 month relationship) Cloud suddenly is not allowed to move on from Aerith to be with Tifa. The math does not balance the equation at all. It has too many imaginary numbers involved.
Sorry new here didn't mean to post this. Was in the middle of putting my thoughts down but well doing it on my phone, stupid idea.
Anyway while Im typing. I wondered what you guys think of other characters in the franchise like Locke, Lulu and Edward who lost loved ones and had to deal with loss and move on.
Dont get why some cleirth shippers still see Cloud at the end of ACC pinning for Aerith like he is forbidden by her to find happiness from a potiential other particular with Tifa in their minds.
Can't say much about Locke and Edward since I played FFVI once 20 years ago so I don't remember a lot about it aside from the general plot.
(have been trying to play it again for years but something about the steam versions graphical upgrade just bothers me, I have 2 copies of FFVI for the ps1 though, should just use them).
But in the case of Lulu, she's neither the main character, nor have we ever met Chappu really so it's no surprise that people don't care about that relationship as much. I guarantee you that if Chappu had been in our party for 50% of FFX, that people wouldn't be as ok with Lulu getting together with Wakka in FF10-2
It also doesn't help that FFVII always ALMOST gives you the idea that death might not necessarily mean the end of the relationship, which is pretty ironic considering the fact that the finality of death was kind of an important factor in FFVII. As well as the fact that a lot of people felt like Aeriths death did not come at the end of a story arc, people feel like their story wasn't done yet, so they feel unfulfilled, they expect the story to go on, son they think it has to happen. But again, the idea that death "just happens" and doesn't come at some perfect romantic end of your story type time is another thing that the designers tried to purposefully show with FFVII.
Welcome to the forum @gilbaxnomfux! Please don't apologize for your post, questions and activity are always encouraged!
Dont get why some cleirth shippers still see Cloud at the end of ACC pinning for Aerith like he is forbidden by her to find happiness from a potiential other particular with Tifa in their minds.
Cloud never needed a blessing in love, he was right on track with the blessing he gave himself with the woman he wanted. Aerith is a symbol of his failure and AC/C was the story that resolved this. Additionally there are not really any references that support or encourage a Cloud pining for Aerith.
She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.
^ and just basically that quote. Aerith isn't mentioned in that dynamic because there is no place for her.
Also the same people you refer to will happily tell you how fast Aerith moved on from Zack but Cloud/Aerith is an exception to this rule because - cue 3k word essays on ambiguous scenes and quotes because there's not really much else to go on other than air. Because Cloud/Aerith never got an adequate amount of time to justify a lot of what is argued in their defence. For the record, I do think there is a romantic dynamic between Cloud and Aerith but it absolutely doesn't exist post ACC/DoC. A Cloud at peace is seen in the side novel, The Kids are Alright, talking about his family to another family very much like his. It isn't a man with unfinished romance. I would like to think Cloud's memories of Aerith are more peaceful that that now. Think how Aerith would like to Cloud to remember her; not in a way he would be emotionally ravaged, basically.
Oh and also, Aerith wouldn't tolerate Cloud pining over her for the rest of his days. She would manifest in front of him to kick his ass and tell him to get it together cause Tifa is waiting and worth more than that.
Also, from my years of being the lonely nerd girl who plays otome games, I've never known this pose to be platonic: View attachment 6613
It's so commonly used. Like whenever my the hero is protecting me the MC.
Also the same people you refer to will happily tell you how fast Aerith moved on from Zack but Cloud/Aerith is an exception to this rule because - cue 3k word essays on ambiguous scenes and quotes because there's not really much else to go on other than air. Because Cloud/Aerith never got an adequate amount of time to justify a lot of what is argued in their defence. For the record, I do think there is a romantic dynamic between Cloud and Aerith but it absolutely doesn't exist post ACC/DoC. A Cloud at peace is seen in the side novel, The Kids are Alright, talking about his family to another family very much like his. It isn't a man with unfinished romance. I would like to think Cloud's memories of Aerith are more peaceful that that now. Think how Aerith would like to Cloud to remember her; not in a way he would be emotionally ravaged, basically.
That's pretty much it! OG Cloud/Aerith is debatable (and by debatable I mean the nature of these feelings bc the feelings are definitely there), but anything post-lifestream, AC/C, and DoC it shouldn't be a question anymore. There's enough content to back up the fact that once Cloud regains himself, he's pretty much into Tifa as he has always been before, and the only time Aerith is even brought up btw their relationship is when Tifa is being insecure due to a hard time in their relationship. AC/C and Ultimanias has described many time the nature of Cloud's feelings towards Aerith post-OG and not even once it was described as love.
Found an interesting video. Maybe our resident translator could see if the translation is correct in the video, verses what is being said in the English Subs.
