Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
A few more to get you going this morning! Have a wonderful Cloud X Tif day!
Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)
- Thread starter Tennyo
- Start date
While I primarily like hanging out in this club to celebrate Cloti, I also enjoy interesting discussion that pertains to the couple, which sometimes strays into LTD territory. I try to keep all my discussion posts Cloti-centric, but I also understand that sometimes people want a safe space to discuss the merits of a pairing without being exposed to the LTD thread, which can get really intense sometimes.
I agree with Ite that we should avoid talking about the fandom or the fans here, but I don't think if the discussion occasionally drifts into LTD territory that it's a bad thing, as long as it's primarily Cloti-focused and doesn't get heated. But that's just me.
I agree with Ite that we should avoid talking about the fandom or the fans here, but I don't think if the discussion occasionally drifts into LTD territory that it's a bad thing, as long as it's primarily Cloti-focused and doesn't get heated. But that's just me.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
I believe that this was an example of us being able to police ourselves without getting the mods involved. Which is a good thing. As for the reason I come to this club is just to have interesting conversations about our favorite couple and of course to share some pictures every now and then.
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
I hope my comments before don’t seem like I’m targeting any particular shippers, as I can’t stand that kind of behavior from any ship at all. My general opinion on the LTD is that the debate itself is misguided in nature, so I do believe what I said applies to people of all ships. Didn’t mean to help derail the thread!
odekopeko
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Peko
I haven't been here a while. But I've caught up on posts and lovely fanarts. This one was too cute to pass up.
Tifa: What's this?
Answer: Carrot
Cloud: Something you put in curry
T: What's this?
A: Broccoli
C: Something you put in stew
T: What's this?
A: Onion
C: ... It's spicy.
T: What's this?
A: Bell pepper
Cloud grits his teeth
C: ... It's bitter
Tifa: What's this?
Answer: Carrot
Cloud: Something you put in curry
T: What's this?
A: Broccoli
C: Something you put in stew
T: What's this?
A: Onion
C: ... It's spicy.
T: What's this?
A: Bell pepper
Cloud grits his teeth
C: ... It's bitter
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Good Evening all. Below is your daily fix of sexy fan art tweets of Cloud X Tifa.
Final_Heaven
Pro Adventurer
Who is Shinji?
iamhorde
Pro Adventurer
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Happy Friday all! Let us celebrate with more tweets of Tifa and Cloud fan arts. I have some shots of domestic Cloud X Tifa in this bunch. Lets have a great weekend!
insanehobbit
Pro Adventurer
Another Saturday night, another long post.
Cloud, Tifa and Aerith spend quite a bit of time together in Ch. 9 - 12, so if the Remake wanted to play up the whole triangular nature of their relationships, this would have been the time to do it. But honestly, outside of a couple moments in Ch. 11 (which stand out because of how incongruous they are with the preceding scenes), I just don't see it.
I would argue that Tifa is the "protagonist" of these chapters, or at least the character whose motivations are driving the plot forward. Tifa wants to find out what Shinra's plan is for Sector 7 and then wants to get back to stop it. Cloud and Aerith are there to help her.
Most of the time, we see the three of them working rather effectively as a trio, but when they do break up into duos within the trio, it's almost always CloTi and AerTi, which again makes sense from a narrative perspective, since this is really Tifa's arc. Aerith also has a mini-arc in Ch. 11 with the ghosts. Cloud is just along for the ride.
In conclusion, the true LTD in the Remake is CloTi vs. AerTi.
Cloud, Tifa and Aerith spend quite a bit of time together in Ch. 9 - 12, so if the Remake wanted to play up the whole triangular nature of their relationships, this would have been the time to do it. But honestly, outside of a couple moments in Ch. 11 (which stand out because of how incongruous they are with the preceding scenes), I just don't see it.
I would argue that Tifa is the "protagonist" of these chapters, or at least the character whose motivations are driving the plot forward. Tifa wants to find out what Shinra's plan is for Sector 7 and then wants to get back to stop it. Cloud and Aerith are there to help her.
Most of the time, we see the three of them working rather effectively as a trio, but when they do break up into duos within the trio, it's almost always CloTi and AerTi, which again makes sense from a narrative perspective, since this is really Tifa's arc. Aerith also has a mini-arc in Ch. 11 with the ghosts. Cloud is just along for the ride.
This dynamic is established pretty early on. We actually few shows that highlight the "triangle" dynamic, with two characters talking to each other, and the third on the outside looking in:
Again, most of the time, no character is "left out" so to speak. It's more often the two characters are trying to figure out how to support the one. Though, it should be noted that Tifa is never the character left out.
Fun(?) fact. If you don't choose to wake up Aerith first, there is not a single shot in all of Ch. 10 where Cloud and Aerith are the only two characters in the shot. (This is not to say there's never a frame with just the two of them, but the shot itself will begin or end to also include Tifa). Cloud and Tifa begin the chapter with just the two of them (asking him if he believes Corneo; fighting back to back against the Sahagins). Meanwhile, AerTi spend plenty of time together in the middle of the chapter, saving each other and planning a date.
Even in Ch. 9, not including the Corneo interrogation scene, which really is something they're doing as a trio, there are only two shots that only have Cloud and Aerith in them. First, is when Cloud helps Aerith up, which is a pretty quick shot, since Aerith then immediately runs to Tifa to introduce herself. The second is when Aerith is explaining who she is to Tifa, and Cloud is standing (mostly out of focus) in the background.
Going back to the end of Ch. 10, when they're attacked by Sahagins, there's a couple of interesting framing choices:
When the Sahagins charge them, Tifa and Aerith rearrange themselves off screen so that the shot ends with just Cloud and Tifa in the frame. Then Aerith gets her own shot for her reaction. Even before they tell Aerith to go, the game is already framing Cloud and Tifa together as her protectors.
This subsequent moment reinforces that dynamic. Cloud and Tifa share a shot. Aerith gets her own. (Why these gifs are different sizes, god only knows)
Though it's never explicitly said, I think Ch. 10 establishes (largely through visuals such as the above) Tifa as Aerith's bodyguard/protector as much as Cloud, and this is a dynamic that continues for the rest of the game.
Ch. 10 I think we can safely say is the AerTi chapter, with a bit of CloTi sprinkled in between. So when Ch. 11 arrives and the hetero LTD rears its ugly head again, it feels weird. I think (and this definitely just my personal opinion) that this Chapter was designed as a nod to the LTD-dynamic in the OG, but it's not as if the characters have suddenly reverted back to their OG selves. I think these scenes are deliberately edited so that at first glance, it appears as if Cloud is torn between the two, but if you look closely (or uhh, over analyze like I do), his bias is clear, and it's the same one that he's had for the rest of the game.
Here are the two scenes when the girls fall, and Cloud asks them if they're okay:
The first of these is sneaky, sneaky. (1) has Cloud landing and then turning his head, and we cut on that motion to (2), which is his POV shot. Note how both Tifa and Aerith are in the frame. Aerith starts to get up, but the shot doesn't really follow her movement, so I would assume he's still looking at both of them when we cut to (3). He doesn't move in this shot and he's in the same position as he was in (1), but we see him at a different angle, which is kind of disorienting. We then cut to (4), a shot of Aerith, which looks like the reverse shot of (3), so it's reasonable to assume that Cloud is addressing Aerith. Note how she's looking a bit off center, so we know this is not Cloud's POV shot. (5) has Tifa walking through them, perhaps a bit pissed. (6) is actually the first time we have a shot that truly establishes the geography of the characters. Cloud is looking at where Tifa was, but was he always looking that way or did he turn towards her after the fact? We don't know!
If the game wanted to make it clear who Cloud was looking at when he asked the question, it would have had a wide shot like (6) first. As it stands, the clearly wants us to think that Cloud asked Aerith, but whether that was really the case, I honestly can't say for sure.
Contrast this with the second scene. (1) is a very wide shot, but it does establish the geography of the characters, and we hold on that shot long enough to see that Cloud is hovering over Tifa. (3) has Tifa looking directly at the camera here. She's obviously not breaking the fourth wall here so we can safely assume this is Cloud's POV. (4) has Aerith respond, and I would say it's pretty clear Cloud is not looking her way.
In the second scene, Cloud is definitely talking to Tifa, but because of the weird way the first scene was edited, most people probably come away from these two scenes thinking the LTD is "balanced" so to speak.
Speaking of the LTD, let's take a look at that infamous scene that's already been discussed to death. Am I adding anything new to the discourse? Probably not. Am I going to talk about it anyways? Duh.
I feel many moments in this game (esp involving any combination of these 3 characters) get taken out of context, and this is definitely one of them. When you look at the scene itself, this isn't about Cloud not being able to choose between the two girls. Rather this scene is about Tifa (just take a cursory glance at the thumbnails), and more specifically Aerith and Cloud trying to reassure her.
(1) starts with Tifa and her discomfort. (2) Has her looking to Cloud and Aerith for guidance. (3) has Aerith looking to Cloud, but Cloud looks back to Tifa before it cuts to (4) - Tifa's still not reassured. So Aerith tries a different tact in (5) by grabbing onto Cloud. Note in (5b), Cloud is still looking at Tifa. (6) is a close-up of Aerith, but she's also looking at Tifa. (7) is a quick shot, but enough for us to register....some kind of emotion on Tifa's face. Jealousy could certainly be one of them. It's only in (8) that Aerith is finally looking at Cloud, who doesn't really appear to be looking her way. (9a) starts off with just Cloud and Aerith, with Cloud turning away. (9b) cuts on the moment Tifa grabs his arm to (10a) a close-up of Tifa. (10) is appears to be a mirror of the shot with Aerith in (8), but while the camera is more or less static in (8), in (10), it actually pans up a bit, so we can better see Cloud's surprise in (10b). (11) we finally get a close-up of Cloud and boy does he not know what to do. (12) is the famous LTD shot, which is a boon for the marketing department, but again, not really what this scene is about.
When Aerith grabs Cloud's arm. Cloud doesn't react. Instead, we cut to Tifa's reaction. When Tifa grabs Cloud's arm, we do not cut to Aerith's reaction. Instead, and this is done rather subtlety, we see Cloud's.
Not going to go too into detail on this one. But here is Cloud and Aerith protecting Tifa from the Phantom in the control room. This is mostly here as a comp to what happens with Eligor.
While Cloud and Aerith have a shared goal, their actions almost seem at odds. Just look at the framing in (4a) + (4b) and (8a) + (8b). The save itself is very action-y, but note how much focus there is on Cloud in (9) and (11) compared to Eligor below.
There's a sense of balance and symmetry that doesn't exist in the previous scene. We basically spend the same number of shots on Cloud's physical support (1)-(4) as Tifa's emotional support (8)-(11). While the duos in this scene are Cloud-Aerith, and Tifa-Aerith, I do think this is a nice CloTi moment too, because whether they're doing it consciously or not, Cloud and Tifa are saving Aerith as a unit. Again, just as like at the end of Ch. 10, here we see both Cloud and Tifa being Aerith's protectors. Will also note that in this scene we have close-ups of Aerith and Tifa, but not Cloud.
Here's a random shot from the Phantom fight. We get a back shot of all three, but for some reason, only Cloud and Tifa are in the front view. This choice was a bit confusing to me, but perhaps telling in how comfortable the game is in framing these two together.
In Ch. 12, the trio is physically separated, but that separation is into the duos we started out with - Aerith and Tifa at the bottom of the pillar with Wedge. Cloud and Tifa on top.
A few moments from these chapters, where one character calls out the name of another in concern:
Both Cloud and Aerith are watching when Tifa is running off, but we get a close-up of just Cloud.
Almost the exact same scene, with Tifa running off and Aerith and Cloud looking on (he doesn't react, but you can kinda hear him grunt). This time, while Aerith does come into focus, we do not get a close-up of her as we did of Cloud in the previous scene. (Look at me, undermining my own AerTi agenda!)
Here, Cloud calls Aerith's name, but he remains out of focus in the background. We then cut to a close-up of Aerith and then a close-up of...Tifa? (ah, there's my AerTi agenda again) before the game returns control to the player.
Cloud calls Aerith when she's offscreen. Again, we have the verbal emphasis of the name, but not the added visual emphasis as was the case in the sewers.
Again, most of the time, no character is "left out" so to speak. It's more often the two characters are trying to figure out how to support the one. Though, it should be noted that Tifa is never the character left out.
Fun(?) fact. If you don't choose to wake up Aerith first, there is not a single shot in all of Ch. 10 where Cloud and Aerith are the only two characters in the shot. (This is not to say there's never a frame with just the two of them, but the shot itself will begin or end to also include Tifa). Cloud and Tifa begin the chapter with just the two of them (asking him if he believes Corneo; fighting back to back against the Sahagins). Meanwhile, AerTi spend plenty of time together in the middle of the chapter, saving each other and planning a date.
Even in Ch. 9, not including the Corneo interrogation scene, which really is something they're doing as a trio, there are only two shots that only have Cloud and Aerith in them. First, is when Cloud helps Aerith up, which is a pretty quick shot, since Aerith then immediately runs to Tifa to introduce herself. The second is when Aerith is explaining who she is to Tifa, and Cloud is standing (mostly out of focus) in the background.
Going back to the end of Ch. 10, when they're attacked by Sahagins, there's a couple of interesting framing choices:
When the Sahagins charge them, Tifa and Aerith rearrange themselves off screen so that the shot ends with just Cloud and Tifa in the frame. Then Aerith gets her own shot for her reaction. Even before they tell Aerith to go, the game is already framing Cloud and Tifa together as her protectors.
This subsequent moment reinforces that dynamic. Cloud and Tifa share a shot. Aerith gets her own. (Why these gifs are different sizes, god only knows)
Though it's never explicitly said, I think Ch. 10 establishes (largely through visuals such as the above) Tifa as Aerith's bodyguard/protector as much as Cloud, and this is a dynamic that continues for the rest of the game.
Ch. 10 I think we can safely say is the AerTi chapter, with a bit of CloTi sprinkled in between. So when Ch. 11 arrives and the hetero LTD rears its ugly head again, it feels weird. I think (and this definitely just my personal opinion) that this Chapter was designed as a nod to the LTD-dynamic in the OG, but it's not as if the characters have suddenly reverted back to their OG selves. I think these scenes are deliberately edited so that at first glance, it appears as if Cloud is torn between the two, but if you look closely (or uhh, over analyze like I do), his bias is clear, and it's the same one that he's had for the rest of the game.
Here are the two scenes when the girls fall, and Cloud asks them if they're okay:
The first of these is sneaky, sneaky. (1) has Cloud landing and then turning his head, and we cut on that motion to (2), which is his POV shot. Note how both Tifa and Aerith are in the frame. Aerith starts to get up, but the shot doesn't really follow her movement, so I would assume he's still looking at both of them when we cut to (3). He doesn't move in this shot and he's in the same position as he was in (1), but we see him at a different angle, which is kind of disorienting. We then cut to (4), a shot of Aerith, which looks like the reverse shot of (3), so it's reasonable to assume that Cloud is addressing Aerith. Note how she's looking a bit off center, so we know this is not Cloud's POV shot. (5) has Tifa walking through them, perhaps a bit pissed. (6) is actually the first time we have a shot that truly establishes the geography of the characters. Cloud is looking at where Tifa was, but was he always looking that way or did he turn towards her after the fact? We don't know!
If the game wanted to make it clear who Cloud was looking at when he asked the question, it would have had a wide shot like (6) first. As it stands, the clearly wants us to think that Cloud asked Aerith, but whether that was really the case, I honestly can't say for sure.
Contrast this with the second scene. (1) is a very wide shot, but it does establish the geography of the characters, and we hold on that shot long enough to see that Cloud is hovering over Tifa. (3) has Tifa looking directly at the camera here. She's obviously not breaking the fourth wall here so we can safely assume this is Cloud's POV. (4) has Aerith respond, and I would say it's pretty clear Cloud is not looking her way.
In the second scene, Cloud is definitely talking to Tifa, but because of the weird way the first scene was edited, most people probably come away from these two scenes thinking the LTD is "balanced" so to speak.
Speaking of the LTD, let's take a look at that infamous scene that's already been discussed to death. Am I adding anything new to the discourse? Probably not. Am I going to talk about it anyways? Duh.
I feel many moments in this game (esp involving any combination of these 3 characters) get taken out of context, and this is definitely one of them. When you look at the scene itself, this isn't about Cloud not being able to choose between the two girls. Rather this scene is about Tifa (just take a cursory glance at the thumbnails), and more specifically Aerith and Cloud trying to reassure her.
(1) starts with Tifa and her discomfort. (2) Has her looking to Cloud and Aerith for guidance. (3) has Aerith looking to Cloud, but Cloud looks back to Tifa before it cuts to (4) - Tifa's still not reassured. So Aerith tries a different tact in (5) by grabbing onto Cloud. Note in (5b), Cloud is still looking at Tifa. (6) is a close-up of Aerith, but she's also looking at Tifa. (7) is a quick shot, but enough for us to register....some kind of emotion on Tifa's face. Jealousy could certainly be one of them. It's only in (8) that Aerith is finally looking at Cloud, who doesn't really appear to be looking her way. (9a) starts off with just Cloud and Aerith, with Cloud turning away. (9b) cuts on the moment Tifa grabs his arm to (10a) a close-up of Tifa. (10) is appears to be a mirror of the shot with Aerith in (8), but while the camera is more or less static in (8), in (10), it actually pans up a bit, so we can better see Cloud's surprise in (10b). (11) we finally get a close-up of Cloud and boy does he not know what to do. (12) is the famous LTD shot, which is a boon for the marketing department, but again, not really what this scene is about.
When Aerith grabs Cloud's arm. Cloud doesn't react. Instead, we cut to Tifa's reaction. When Tifa grabs Cloud's arm, we do not cut to Aerith's reaction. Instead, and this is done rather subtlety, we see Cloud's.
Not going to go too into detail on this one. But here is Cloud and Aerith protecting Tifa from the Phantom in the control room. This is mostly here as a comp to what happens with Eligor.
While Cloud and Aerith have a shared goal, their actions almost seem at odds. Just look at the framing in (4a) + (4b) and (8a) + (8b). The save itself is very action-y, but note how much focus there is on Cloud in (9) and (11) compared to Eligor below.
There's a sense of balance and symmetry that doesn't exist in the previous scene. We basically spend the same number of shots on Cloud's physical support (1)-(4) as Tifa's emotional support (8)-(11). While the duos in this scene are Cloud-Aerith, and Tifa-Aerith, I do think this is a nice CloTi moment too, because whether they're doing it consciously or not, Cloud and Tifa are saving Aerith as a unit. Again, just as like at the end of Ch. 10, here we see both Cloud and Tifa being Aerith's protectors. Will also note that in this scene we have close-ups of Aerith and Tifa, but not Cloud.
Here's a random shot from the Phantom fight. We get a back shot of all three, but for some reason, only Cloud and Tifa are in the front view. This choice was a bit confusing to me, but perhaps telling in how comfortable the game is in framing these two together.
In Ch. 12, the trio is physically separated, but that separation is into the duos we started out with - Aerith and Tifa at the bottom of the pillar with Wedge. Cloud and Tifa on top.
A few moments from these chapters, where one character calls out the name of another in concern:
Both Cloud and Aerith are watching when Tifa is running off, but we get a close-up of just Cloud.
Almost the exact same scene, with Tifa running off and Aerith and Cloud looking on (he doesn't react, but you can kinda hear him grunt). This time, while Aerith does come into focus, we do not get a close-up of her as we did of Cloud in the previous scene. (Look at me, undermining my own AerTi agenda!)
Here, Cloud calls Aerith's name, but he remains out of focus in the background. We then cut to a close-up of Aerith and then a close-up of...Tifa? (ah, there's my AerTi agenda again) before the game returns control to the player.
Cloud calls Aerith when she's offscreen. Again, we have the verbal emphasis of the name, but not the added visual emphasis as was the case in the sewers.
In conclusion, the true LTD in the Remake is CloTi vs. AerTi.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I am fairly certain that in the train graveyard when Cloud asks first if they’re ok, he is at least asking the two girls, maybe focusing more on Tifa who hurt herself. In this infamous shot where Tifa passes between them, just like @odekopeko I was sure she sounded pissed. Relistening made me realise she wasn’t, she was stifling down that pain (ankle maybe). I also realised as some of you may know that this is when Aerith realised she internalises her pain and won’t show it - hence why she is worried for her in the Drums because of the plate fall, not knowing that Cloud already lifted Tifa’s pain and how she feels much better (also why Tifa is confused by the ask and doesn’t know what to answer because uh, everything is good?).
Cloud realises during that first moment in the train graveyard that he has failed to save Tifa and she’s hurt, which is why he really makes sure after this that she won’t get hurt again. Hence the emphasis on the second scene.
Just like you did I looked a lot at those few chapters and came to realise that Cloud painfully doesn’t treat the two girls the same way. It is very obvious from the way he reacts to the way he acts. He will save and help both, yes, but he does pay an enormous attention to Tifa’s emotional well-being as well (this is remarkable during the plate fall), which he does not for Aerith. Again, thank you for your well-put post @insanehobbit!
Cloud realises during that first moment in the train graveyard that he has failed to save Tifa and she’s hurt, which is why he really makes sure after this that she won’t get hurt again. Hence the emphasis on the second scene.
Just like you did I looked a lot at those few chapters and came to realise that Cloud painfully doesn’t treat the two girls the same way. It is very obvious from the way he reacts to the way he acts. He will save and help both, yes, but he does pay an enormous attention to Tifa’s emotional well-being as well (this is remarkable during the plate fall), which he does not for Aerith. Again, thank you for your well-put post @insanehobbit!
a_apple 2.0
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- a_apple
I disagree here, I heard this a couple of times already but c'mon that scene is delicious drama. It's a text book case. The last couple of chapters Cloud was occupied to save Aerith from physical harm, that's her stick, she is a total free spirit but she literally needs someone who will protect her since she is your "mage" character. So when all three of them fall down that wagon the first thing Cloud does is to make sure she is alright, like always, that's his job, he is her bodyguard after all she isn't like Tifa who does crazy stunts 24/7. Almost every action scene in chapter 10 leads to this concept being reinforced, Tifa can handle herself but Aerith needs someone who looks out for her. Just for him to realize that not Aerith was injured by that fall, but precious Tifa.
Not only did she hurt her foot but from her body language alone we can tell that she feels hurt by him seemingly not caring about her well being and looking at Clouds body language you can tell that either he is also shocked about his carelessness towards her or just shocked at her being hurt at all. The point is however that this bothered him so much that he makes the rest of the upcoming chapters sure that she knows he cares very much.
The biggest example of that would be the second time he rescues the girls. He looks demonstrative straight at Tifa's face and asks if she is okay even though Aerith is just next to him. If you now look at Tifa's body language and facial expression you can tell how reassured this makes her of the place she holds in his heart. After that you get a million other scenes where he is very occupied with her emotional and physical well being.
So in conclusion, it's almost like Cloud wavered between the girls for whatever reason in that moment, realized Tifa was hurt by that and therefore wanted to show her she is still waifu #1
It's Cloud's birthday today in Japan (8/11), which means an influx of amazing art!
And there's so many more, too many to keep up with, honestly. I'm sure more will be coming out as the day progresses too!
And there's so many more, too many to keep up with, honestly. I'm sure more will be coming out as the day progresses too!
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Actually, I walked in the scene thinking like you, @a_apple 2.0 but watching the scenes in slo-mo really does change your mind.
When Cloud turns around, this is what he sees:
(this is a thumbnail, you normally can click on it). It's literally the first shot you see when he turns around; he sees both girls, this is why I'm saying he asked both. However, after that, I do agree that Aerith takes his attention away when she answers that she's good. And what's more interesting is that when Tifa answers, you see her moving, but it's not from Cloud's POV, Cloud's POV is as @insanehobbit said stuck in the back, where she fell. And after Aerith worries for Tifa, we have her looking at Cloud who is still stuck where Tifa fell - it's hilarious, you can see she looks at him like "mmh, what's going on, why aren't you moving?" while Cloud is like "IfailedTifaIfailedTifaTifaishurtwhatdoIdo" lol. It's only when Tifa calls them that they both turn to her. I totally agree with the rest of your POV, he made extra sure after this that Tifa wouldn't get hurt and that she would know he was only interested in her answer lol.
When Cloud turns around, this is what he sees:
(this is a thumbnail, you normally can click on it). It's literally the first shot you see when he turns around; he sees both girls, this is why I'm saying he asked both. However, after that, I do agree that Aerith takes his attention away when she answers that she's good. And what's more interesting is that when Tifa answers, you see her moving, but it's not from Cloud's POV, Cloud's POV is as @insanehobbit said stuck in the back, where she fell. And after Aerith worries for Tifa, we have her looking at Cloud who is still stuck where Tifa fell - it's hilarious, you can see she looks at him like "mmh, what's going on, why aren't you moving?" while Cloud is like "IfailedTifaIfailedTifaTifaishurtwhatdoIdo" lol. It's only when Tifa calls them that they both turn to her. I totally agree with the rest of your POV, he made extra sure after this that Tifa wouldn't get hurt and that she would know he was only interested in her answer lol.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
This is probably how Cloud would spend his birthday with the ones that he loves dearly.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Please excuse the double post but here are the last few I couldn't fit in the previous post.
insanehobbit
Pro Adventurer
I think the game wants you to think that Cloud is wavering at the moment in Ch. 11, but he really isn't. (It could have made it much more clear who he was facing when he first spoke, but it deliberately chose not to. I would almost say it's bad editing, except it's clearly intentional, to ramp up the perceived drama)
And if he is, why wait until Ch. 11 to start doing so? When they wake up in the basement in Ch. 9, he has an entire conversation with Tifa, and it's not until Aerith wakes up on her own that he even remembers she's there.
In Ch. 10, they don't really interact on a one-on-one basis at all. When the Sahagins shows up, he's intending to protect both Tifa and Aerith, but Tifa wants to protect Aerith too.
This isn't even to disparage Aerith or his relationship with her by any means. I'm sure this is what happens in all the chapters when Barret is with Cloud and Tifa as well. I'm just too lazy to go through it.
I think there's a difference between what the game wants the player to take away from the scenes (which in the case of Ch. 11 is the juicy LTD drama) vs. what the characters are actually doing. In the case of Cloud, his Remake characterization is pretty consistent in that whenever she's around, he has one brain cell screaming 'Tifa!' all the time. I don't see why that would change for one specific moment in Ch. 11.
Regardless, we are really splitting hairs here, though I guess that's my fault lol
And if he is, why wait until Ch. 11 to start doing so? When they wake up in the basement in Ch. 9, he has an entire conversation with Tifa, and it's not until Aerith wakes up on her own that he even remembers she's there.
In Ch. 10, they don't really interact on a one-on-one basis at all. When the Sahagins shows up, he's intending to protect both Tifa and Aerith, but Tifa wants to protect Aerith too.
This isn't even to disparage Aerith or his relationship with her by any means. I'm sure this is what happens in all the chapters when Barret is with Cloud and Tifa as well. I'm just too lazy to go through it.
I think there's a difference between what the game wants the player to take away from the scenes (which in the case of Ch. 11 is the juicy LTD drama) vs. what the characters are actually doing. In the case of Cloud, his Remake characterization is pretty consistent in that whenever she's around, he has one brain cell screaming 'Tifa!' all the time. I don't see why that would change for one specific moment in Ch. 11.
Regardless, we are really splitting hairs here, though I guess that's my fault lol
Eerie
Fire and Blood
That's why I said that watching the scenes in slo-mo (at 0.25 speed) really does change your mind. Because you see past what the game wants you to believe (for example, I thought for sure Tifa is pissed there) VS what actually happens (she isn't, she's in physical pain). Although the EN version is playing in the LTD more than the JP and FR versions I guess.
But really, seeing characters moving in slo-mo allows you to discern better what they are doing/thinking. It allows you to see what's actually happening in a scene and get past of "this feeling" you first had while watching, especially since I know when I first watched a playthrough, I thought the LTD would be more balanced, and my brain was kind of wired that way.
But really, seeing characters moving in slo-mo allows you to discern better what they are doing/thinking. It allows you to see what's actually happening in a scene and get past of "this feeling" you first had while watching, especially since I know when I first watched a playthrough, I thought the LTD would be more balanced, and my brain was kind of wired that way.
a_apple 2.0
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- a_apple
These scenes aren't intended to be seen in slow motion and dissected to that extend tho. The first feeling you got while watching them is most of the time the right one, there are of course exceptions like when there is a redherring but I don't think that's the case here. I think it's actually very simple it goes like this:
When there were dangerous encounters in the prior chapter, like passing that bridge or the Ninja turtle things, there was a clear difference shown between Aerith and Tifa and how they handle danger> then we have Cloud and the girls fall down that wagon > because of his prior experience with Aerith Cloud assumes she must have hurt herself > just to realize that Tifa is hurt
Edit:
Also I agree about the difference between the english and jp dub, but I think the only change they did was in how they shown Tifa expressing her distress, in the English dub she straight out tells Cloud "What about me, man wtf??" While in the jp version she puts on a brave face even though it's clear that she injured herself, she just seems emotionally close off which is much more fitting to her character.
When there were dangerous encounters in the prior chapter, like passing that bridge or the Ninja turtle things, there was a clear difference shown between Aerith and Tifa and how they handle danger> then we have Cloud and the girls fall down that wagon > because of his prior experience with Aerith Cloud assumes she must have hurt herself > just to realize that Tifa is hurt
Edit:
Also I agree about the difference between the english and jp dub, but I think the only change they did was in how they shown Tifa expressing her distress, in the English dub she straight out tells Cloud "What about me, man wtf??" While in the jp version she puts on a brave face even though it's clear that she injured herself, she just seems emotionally close off which is much more fitting to her character.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Hey, Tifa also got in trouble in ch10, it was Aerith who saved her, and Cloud got in trouble because he straight jumped where she was to save her but ok, only Aerith is in need of help? I think ch10 does tell you that the three of them work perfectly well as a team, that all three of them can get into trouble and the other two will help. Cloud and Tifa are really set up as Aerith's bodyguard, but that's also neglecting the fact that Aerith saves both of them because she is not so much a damsel in distress rather than a light ditzy character.
Plus as we can see, Tifa is still down when Aerith is up, yet he somehow would only ask Aerith? I think that'd be very OOC for Cloud. He asks both, but gets distracted by Aerith's bubbly answer - which does absolutely relieve him BTW.
I tend to think that we should not necessarily trust our first impression, especially when we watch something with a bias, because we will interpret a scene differently according to our bias. Which is why stepping out, taking it slowly to try to catch the devs' intent is more fun to me. Especially since the devs have said again and again that they do not think about the characters' relationships BUT about the characters themselves and how to work on them. Rereading a bunch of interviews and rewatching some Remake scenes is really, really interesting.
I also think that the devs knew perfectly that people were going to watch scecnes in slo-mo, there are a LOT of details you don't necessarily catch at full speed, like Cloud jumping exactly where Tifa stood to save her in ch10.
Plus as we can see, Tifa is still down when Aerith is up, yet he somehow would only ask Aerith? I think that'd be very OOC for Cloud. He asks both, but gets distracted by Aerith's bubbly answer - which does absolutely relieve him BTW.
I tend to think that we should not necessarily trust our first impression, especially when we watch something with a bias, because we will interpret a scene differently according to our bias. Which is why stepping out, taking it slowly to try to catch the devs' intent is more fun to me. Especially since the devs have said again and again that they do not think about the characters' relationships BUT about the characters themselves and how to work on them. Rereading a bunch of interviews and rewatching some Remake scenes is really, really interesting.
I also think that the devs knew perfectly that people were going to watch scecnes in slo-mo, there are a LOT of details you don't necessarily catch at full speed, like Cloud jumping exactly where Tifa stood to save her in ch10.
a_apple 2.0
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- a_apple
I guess we have to agree to disagree at this point lol
insanehobbit
Pro Adventurer
I don't think it's a red herring, per se. I think 99.99% of people will take away from the scene that Cloud was looking at Aerith first and that's totally fine. In fact, that's the intention.
Though I would add, it's also a way for the game approximate what Tifa feels in that scene. She didn't see what happened, so she assumes that Cloud was only talking to Aerith. If the game made it more clear that he was actually asking both of them, Tifa's reaction would seem silly/childish to us. If instead, the we had just a shot focusing on Tifa on the ground while Cloud and Aerith were talking off-screen so we better see what she sees (or rather doesn't see), it would be both visually uninteresting and a weird shot. The game also never shows us the same scene from different angles, so that too is out of the question.
The game instead splits the difference, so the vast majority of the people who play will assume the obvious answer. For the 0.001% of us weirdos, it's more ambiguous. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter in the slightest. But if we're talking about the nitty-gritty of Cloud's characterization, then it does make a difference. I've already explained why I think it's ambiguous (esp compared to the other crash), so I'm not going to repeat myself, but I will also add that I've rewatched and broken down more of this game than I can even remember at this point, and this is literally the only scene where I'm not sure what's happening or who is talking to whom. Take that as you will, but I'm happy to move on.
Though I would add, it's also a way for the game approximate what Tifa feels in that scene. She didn't see what happened, so she assumes that Cloud was only talking to Aerith. If the game made it more clear that he was actually asking both of them, Tifa's reaction would seem silly/childish to us. If instead, the we had just a shot focusing on Tifa on the ground while Cloud and Aerith were talking off-screen so we better see what she sees (or rather doesn't see), it would be both visually uninteresting and a weird shot. The game also never shows us the same scene from different angles, so that too is out of the question.
The game instead splits the difference, so the vast majority of the people who play will assume the obvious answer. For the 0.001% of us weirdos, it's more ambiguous. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter in the slightest. But if we're talking about the nitty-gritty of Cloud's characterization, then it does make a difference. I've already explained why I think it's ambiguous (esp compared to the other crash), so I'm not going to repeat myself, but I will also add that I've rewatched and broken down more of this game than I can even remember at this point, and this is literally the only scene where I'm not sure what's happening or who is talking to whom. Take that as you will, but I'm happy to move on.