Fat Princess: Helping to create...

[Arianna]

If the game was killing fat people on the sole basis of their attractiveness, or hurting them depending on their weight, or something similar to the effect of mocking them (like Silent Hill 3, if I didn't misunderstand or read/see a bad translation), somethring very stereotypical and just plain wrong - then yes, I'd personally be offended. I still have not looked at the links given, but I did wish to explain my neutrality to the subject. If it's something not harmful or vindictive, I don't care; actually, I wish more games would feature people of size - Final Fantasy VII did that. Wedge, the guy who fixes the buggie at Cosmo Canyon, assorted other non-playable characters... That goes for height, weight, skin color, etc.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm sorry, huh? When in Silent Hill 3 do you hunt or kill fat people based on their looks?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

If the game was killing fat people on the sole basis of their attractiveness, or hurting them depending on their weight, or something similar to the effect of mocking them (like Silent Hill 3, if I didn't misunderstand or read/see a bad translation)

Silent Hill 3? I don't know what you're talking about, homes. SH2 has one fat person, but he was killing people because of he perceived them making fun of his weight.

Is it "better" if the misrepresentation is something like Soul Calibur IV, or Dead or Alive, when the characters are all gravity defying physically impossible tits of doom?

This is why I only play SC2, since the costumes have just gotten ridiculous.

 

[Arianna]

I'm sorry, huh? When in Silent Hill 3 do you hunt or kill fat people based on their looks?

Again, what I saw could be totally screwed up...

The one monster you fight - the big, fat monster:

In an interview I came across it was explained that the monster is that way 'cause it represents what's repulsive and disgusting.

That was insulting to me.

 

[Max Payne]

I'm not trying to perceive anything. People see it. I could just say to you, stop being blind, and open your eyes to negative bullshit

Yeah you are. People see it that way because they're ignorant of it, and don't understand it's meant to just be funny and stupid, not offensive. They see the word fat and jump to their guns. There's also a shitload of more people who don't see it, and are clearly aware of it's comedic aims.

A lot of people seeing it doesn't mean shit. It's the intention of the creators of the media in question and it's purposes.

Again, just because its "diversionary fun" doesn't exclude it from critique or the fact it was made by society and carries messages FROM society. I've explained the intention of the creators means nothing if it still carries with it the negative connotations society has regarding women and weight.

The fact that the game is neither about that idiocy, nor does it make a point out of it, means it's all bullshit. People are perceiving the game that way, that doesn't make it so very awful.

And news flash. Women can be just as sexist or more, than men. That's supposed to make it okay?

No shit want a cookie for stating the obvious?

And I dunno. You could be right or wrong. But that still doesn't mean anything

It means people are full of shit.

 

[Dumb Apple]

Their sexuality and looks are not the base sum of their appearance and appeal.

... so, being a fat female is not the base sum of her appearance or lack of appeal. Meaning, the only reason you are getting is because she is the stereotypical damsel in distress, which is the course "action" she is taking.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Again, what I saw could be totally screwed up...

The one monster you fight - the big, fat monster:

In an interview I came across it was explained that the monster is that way 'cause it represents what's repulsive and disgusting.

That was insulting to me.

The Insane Cancer? It was supposed to be a representation of the "cancerous" growth within Heather, and furthermore, it tried to kill you. Killing it doesn't seem that offensive, imo.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Whatever monster it was, it's nothing human. It's a demon. Its repulsion has nothing to do with its weight and everything to do with it being covered in gore, exposed skin, and whatever manner of suffering its supposed to represent. The actual imagery of the monsters aren't meant to represent any real demographic of people in reality. They're demons. They come in all shapes and sizes.

 

[Max Payne]

Whatever monster it was, it's nothing human. It's a demon. Its repulsion has nothing to do with its weight and everything to do with it being covered in gore, exposed skin, and whatever manner of suffering its supposed to represent. The actual imagery of the monsters aren't meant to represent any real demographic of people in reality. They're demons. They come in all shapes and sizes.

The fact that the monsters are horrifically overweight is certainly a factor in their frightening appearance.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah you are. People see it because they want to be offended by it. They see the word fat and jump to their guns. There's also a shitload of more people who don't see it, and are clearly aware of it's comedic aims.

Then I"ll say people are choosing to bury their heads in the sand and to conform to bullshit messages of weight and female objectification

And that doesn't matter. The main thing patriarchy and sexism has going for it is the majority adhere to it and purport it. No shit.

A lot of people seeing it doesn't mean shit. It's the intention of the creators of the media in question and it's purposes.

Likewise a lot of people NOT seeing it doesn't mean shit. The intention means fuck all. By that reasoning, anyone can get away with making a ridiculous, and offensive bit of racist/sexist piece of shit by saying it wasn't their intent. Bullocks excuse is bullocks. Actions speak louder than words.

I'll take the cookie though, and throw it at you

You brought up the fact a woman did it. Who fucking cares? That means something?

... so, being a fat female is not the base sum of her appearance or lack of appeal. Meaning, the only reason you are getting is because she is the stereotypical damsel in distress, which is the course "action" she is taking.

No where near the same thing. She is nothing more than a damsel of distress who eats and has to be rescued. Sadly, her being an object and eating til fat IS the base sum of her role in this game.

@Ninra

Yeah, if its the Insane Cancer, I'm not sure it has ANY type of gender. It's just a demon, Arriana. It's not anything but a monster trying to kill you.

@Bacon again

Yeah, and monsters can be horrific by being deathly underweight and emaciated. Like I said, all shapes and sizes dude.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Seriously, the game contains sexy nurse demons, but I don't think it's trying to tell you that you should kill sexy nurses. Insane Cancers don't have faces, just a stump on top of their overweight-looking bodies.

 

[Max Payne]

Intention means everything idiot, the game isn't saying fat people have no self control or anything else of the such. What bullshit. No one is insulting anyone here, unless you take everything out of context and make it out to be offensive. The game doesn't even relate to reality.

The whole thing is about shitting all over the damsel in distress stereotype.

 

[A]

..."a new generation of fat-hating, heteronormative assholes"? Or should these critics STFU and get over it?

Linky to article

Linky to a gameplay video

With Fat Princess slated to come out this year, some of you may have caught some wind of this little controversy surrounding the title and its major objective--retrieving a kidnapped princess, while the you/the enemy has fattened her to make the rescue attempt more difficult. To some this may seem like just a clever game mechanic amidst a cutesy action-strategy game, but to others it's nothing short of offensive.



Also referenced in the article is Feministgamers.com, which has this to say about why it's important to address sexism in games:



With all this in mind, do you think there is any merit to the outrage over a game like Fat Princess? Would an alternative to a princess have been better, such as a treasure chest or an animal? Do you think games like this helping to reinforce negative images of women? Should games be more responsible in presenting images to the contrary?

I'm sure obese/overweight woman would feel 'incredibly confident' after this is released.

I don't find this offensive, but I can see why people would feel bad about playing this game. It's like reading through a fashion magazine and seeing all these ads of skinny, tall people. How is this supposed to make you feel good about yourself? Especially if you're obese/overweight.

Anyways, I doubt anyone would buy this game. Looks shitty as hell.

I think people are taking this way too seriously.

I don't think it's a matter of them taking it too seriously, but people who find something offensive like this is partly because they've been victimized to which ever they find offensive in the past. Like, if someone was really obese three years ago, and they were ridiculed and teased by it, I don't think they'll necessarily feel good about themselves if they see a reflection of what they 'supposedly did,' by eating and... gaining weight.

 

[Makoeyes987]

As I've already explained, you can unintentionally fucking reinforce and convey sexist, misogynistic or other negative societal messages regarding any race, or gender. Because people who don't know or understand can unintentionally conform to a patriarchal mindset of male privilege or female objectification.

You could unintentionally do something or say something offensive and not mean it. But that doesn't change the fact its offensive, Bacon. Get real. If they did something offensive accidentally, its offensive. Their intent on making a game doesn't alleviate the message.

If cat called a woman because I learned it from my friends growing up and I TRULY BELIEVE it to be a way of positively showing I think the woman is attractive, it doesn't change the fact that I did a sexist act. Intention doesn't change everything.

@A

Holy fucking shit A, go tell it on the mountain.

Yeah, the fact that overweight women are bombarded left and right by these same messages over and over again in media and society doesn't help the fact that this message here in this game would be conveyed as negative bullshit as well. It's the same shit in another box.

 

[Max Payne]

As I've already explained, you can unintentionally fucking reinforce and convey sexist, misogynistic or other negative societal messages regarding any race, or gender. Because people who don't know or understand can unintentionally conform to a patriarchal mindset of male privilege or female objectification.

You could unintentionally do something or say something offensive and not mean it. But that doesn't change the fact its offensive, Bacon. Get real. If they did something offensive accidentally, its offensive. Their intent on making a game doesn't alleviate the message. If you see something negative in the game, it's because you're perceiving it that way.

There's no goddamn hate message here.

If cat called a woman because I learned it from my friends growing up and I TRULY BELIEVE it to be a way of positively showing I think the woman is attractive, it doesn't change the fact that I did a sexist act. Intention doesn't change everything.

HAHAHAHA. That's not what your argument was. You said the game was meant to reinforce stereotypes and support some bullshit genderfail concept or fat hate. That there's really some bullshit message being conveyed here.

The guys making the games themselves said that the only message the game has, is that the princesses' people love her no matter what, and will do everything in their power to save her, fat or not.

Many of the people that are looking forward to this game are overweight, a lot of them female, and they think it's cute, see how it could be offensive, but don't care.

If they find it offensive, that's unfortunate, but it's not because the game creators want to make them feel bad.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Uh yeah it was. They can still unconsciously create a game that unwittingly reinforces gender stereotypes and genderfail concepts of fat hate. Even if its not their intent.

And yeah, maybe that was his intentional message but another one got created and conveyed too, due to the nature of reality and the society we live in. Even if he had no intention of doing it, the actual action of the game does so by portraying said overweight women in that light.

And how do you know how many people are looking forward to it? Generalizing now? Bullshit.

I don't think the game creators WANT TO MAKE ANYONE FEEL BAD. But the fact is, is that they made something offensive.

 

[A]

Many of the people that are looking forward to this game are overweight, a lot of them female, and they think it's cute, see how it could be offensive, but don't care.

How do you know this?

 

[Max Payne]

How do you know this?

because most of the people commenting on it on the message board for the game(a message board anyway) said they were. Well not most.

Some even had to post pictures because people wouldn't believe them.

Uh yeah it was. They can still unconsciously create a game that unwittingly reinforces gender stereotypes and genderfail concepts of fat hate. Even if its not their intent.

They didn't unconsciously do anything, they were aware of their art and design choices, that's a bullshit assumption. They did it because they wanted to stand out. Not because they're trying to make anyone feel bad. The fact is the game doesn't relate to real life. The situation is completely inapplicable. There is no message here that applies to real people. It's a completely over the top fictional situation that makes no sense at all.

And yeah, maybe that was his intentional message but another one got created and conveyed too, due to the nature of reality and the society we live in. Even if he had no intention of doing it, the actual action of the game does so by portraying said overweight women in that light.

There's no reality to this game. It's all about being over the top and unrealistic. The situations in this game don't apply to anyone in real life.

And how do you know how many people are looking forward to it? Generalizing now? Bullshit.

because they said they do on the fucking boards idiot.

I don't think the game creators WANT TO MAKE ANYONE FEEL BAD. But the fact is, is that they made something offensive.

No one said that people might not find it offensive, I said it's silly to get upset over.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah because message board comments are CLEARLY INDICATIVE of the population at large.

Calling out bullshit again. It's not.

Wow. How the hell do you know, first of all. And second, if its unconscious, they'd be unaware of it. Even if they made the choice. That's the entire fucking point of an unconscious choice. You are unaware of it, even when you believe to be aware of everything. You're ignoring the fucking point. The fact is, is it conveys those negative societal attitudes and messages. Intent be damned.

 

[A]

because most of the people commenting on it on the message board for the game said they were.

Not everyone does that; it's probably still a very small percentage.

EDIT:

because most of the people commenting on it on the message board for the game(a message board anyway) said they were. Well not most.

Some even had to post pictures because people wouldn't believe them.

That doesn't prove anything.

 

[Max Payne]

Yeah because message board comments are CLEARLY INDICATIVE of the population at large.

No one said they represented the population at large, are you getting stupider or something? A lot of people said it looks fun and want to try it out, that's all.

Wow. How the hell do you know, first of all. And second, if its unconscious, they'd be unaware of it.

I know because they said so in their interviews. They did it to stand out, and because they thought it was cute and funny. If someone does something intentionally, it's not unconscious you idiot.

Even if they made the choice. That's the entire fucking point of an unconscious choice. You are unaware of it, even when you believe to be aware of everything. You're ignoring the fucking point. The fact is, is it conveys those negative societal attitudes and messages. Intent be damned.

The fact is, there's no societal attitude or message conveyed in this game. It's all bullshit.

They thought it was cute and funny. The situations in this game are complete fictional, unrealistic, and illogical and don't apply to real people at all. Doesn't relate to anyone in real life. At all. And you can't bullshit and say they do.

People are taking a simple silly concept meant to stand out as something completely retarded.

That doesn't prove anything.

It proves that not everyone is looking to make a big deal out of it.

 

[A]

It proves that not everyone is looking to make a big deal out of it.

How is finding something offensive making a big deal of it? Sure, people bitch, but that's about it.

 

[Max Payne]

How is finding something offensive making a big deal of it? Sure, people bitch, but that's about it.

When there's groups of people complaining about how awful a game is without ever even playing it, I'd say they're making a big deal about it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Still doesn't fucking prove anything Dacon. And you generalized and said people as a whole. NOT the members of the damn board. Doesn't prove jack shit, other than those that commented are the ones eagerly looking forward to it. Stop trying to make that as if that means something, cause it doesn't. All it proves is, is that the commentors don't give a shit. Period.

No, Mr. Idiot, they can do something intentional AND ALSO do something unintentional at the same time. They're not mutual exclusive, numbnuts. You can try to intentionally help someone up but accidentally step on their foot or drop them again.

The fact is, you're full of shit.

Messages EXIST IN EVERYTHING. If you truly believe things can exist outside of cultural bias and human interpretation, you're naive. Stop saying it carries nothing when it does. What they thought, means nothing. I don't care what they thought because it doesn't change the message in the portrayal of whatever they meant. Believe what you want, but don't tell me it has no message because clearly people see that it does. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

[Meteo]

We're really grabbing at straws here aren't we? How anyone could be genuinely offended by a concept so ridiculously unrealistic, and purposefully comical is astounding. It's overblown controversies like this that made being "politically correct" socially obligatory.

The one thing to keep in mind when defining what is offensive and what isn't, is that interpretation is everything, but interpretation is an infinitely diverse variable. If a group of obese feminists deem this game as undeniably offensive, why does their subjective interpretation become the precedent for judgment?

The guys making the games themselves said that the only message the game has, is that the princesses' people love her no matter what, and will do everything in their power to save her, fat or not.

Which not only dissuades an offensive interpretation, but in fact promotes an overall message of social acceptance despite stereotypically negative superficiality.