FFIX....Another Ultimania project?

[Makoeyes987]

FFVII fans and Xenogears fans...ready..

...

.....

......

FIGHT!!!!



Seriously. I get what you're saying but honestly, let's not try to derail this topic too far from its original topic, please? I'm sure you both could come up with enough points to prove yourselves right on the subject but really, let's try to stay on topic here.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Fair enough, guys. Sorry for any offtrackness.

 

[curiousACfan]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=544.msg20285#msg20285 date=1235175904]I dunno, either FFVII has the dumbest overall fanbase or it's pretty unclear, because the FF7 Ultimania is usually the most cited in debates.[/quote]

You are right about that, but I think that's probably because so many of us were around before there was an Ultimania for it. When debates start, we're like, "Oh fuck, not this again. *copy & paste*"

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G.]Well, the OVERALL story is clear, but many aspects such as Sephiroth/Jenova's battle of wills[/quote]

Okay, I'll give you that one. I really, really have to give you that one.

Basically everything else, though, was clear.

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G.]the Reunion[/quote]

Eh, I thought that one was clear.

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G.]the circumstances and the whys of Aeris death[/quote]

That one was also clear. I know people often thought Aeris had to die for Holy to work, but they explained how it works in the game.

And I think part of that misunderstanding was because many fans just wanted to give more meaning to her death. When the intended meaning was that there was no meaning to it. It just happened, and it sucked for the people who knew her.

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G.]and what body does Sephiroth has, etc rather unclear by nature of the translation.
[/quote]

I think that was clear too. At least in retrospect. The party does figure out that they hadn't been following Sephiroth's real body, so that left only one other candidate (the body of Jenova from the Shinra building).

So why does this happen with FF7 and no other game?

My guess is that part of it is the timing of the game's release. Another is misunderstandings about the word "clone" from people who might have missed stuff like Zangan's letter.

Another part is the limited visual demonstrations.

Cutting away to the battle screen or dropping a little ball was their way of saying "Hey, that thing that looks like Sephiroth? Well, it's not him and it just threw its arm at you" or "It actually transformed right in front of you. No, really, I'm not making this up."

And another part of it is that FFVII inspired more fanfiction than just about any other game. Which is probably also related to the time of its release.

People who played the game once, maybe twice, misunderstood a few things or simply went with artistic license and changed some things for their own stories. Then other people read those stories or talked to those people on message boards.

Eight years later, not even the guys who made the damn game could remember how it went down.

Hojo says in black and white that Sephiroth is controlling Jenova for the Reunion to get the Black Materia.

While true, I think Hojo killed his credibility with a lot of players when he somehow confused Cloud with Zack. After that, everything he said was taken with an ounce of caution.

Especially when he managed to do it again later.

Jenova SAYS that her goal is to obey her master Sephiroth

A much better point. Still, I have to let M.O.G. have that point about the UO clearing that shit up.

@curiousACfan

Holy shit. What a cache of awesome FFX information. God. Thank you so much for sharing this 4 year old info from the FFX UO. Goddamn.

No problem. It always surprises me how little exposure that translation has gotten. It should have been spread far and wide years ago.



Alright, now I'm about to get started on that translation.

 

[curiousACfan]

Ugh. Guys, page 43 is unbelievably boring. I literally fell asleep during translation! I have experienced firsthand the expression "bored to tears."

The good news, though, is that I finished translating it and I don't think nodding off affected the accuracy of the information I gathered. Though if it had, it couldn't serve to do anything but make it more interesting.

Here it is. Hope you find something of interest in it. Goddamn. Just goddamn.

The relationship between the moons and the radiance of the crystals
Two moons
When Terra's attempt at Fusion with Gaia failed, they partially melded, but there remained parts which did not. From that day on, Gaia's original blue moon and Terra's red moon both orbited around Gaia (for more details on Fusion, refer to P.40, "Gaia and Terra&quot.

The crystals and the two moons
The color each moon radiates is the true radiance of its planet, received from the light of each crystal. The color of Gaia's crystal is blue and the color of Terra's crystal is red, and their own moon shines with their radiance. [See Figure 4]

Therefore, because Terra's crystal is inferior to Gaia's and the moons travel in constant ellipses, the nature of the moons' waxing and waning is such that, as Gaia's moon draws closer to being in front of Terra's, portions of Terra's moon on the other side are covered in shadow. [See Figure 5]

As the two moons go around in orbit like in [Figure 6], every sixteen days, the positions of the blue and the red switch, and the two moons are stacked one in front of the other.

Only Gaia's radiance is strong enough to be seen when its moon is directly in the back, as seen in [Figure 7].

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2860/moons.jpg
[Figure 4] Picture from development (Illustration: Hideo Minaba)

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1686/moons2.jpg
[Figure 5] Picture from development (Illustration: Hideo Minaba)

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6667/moons3.jpg
[Figure 6] Cycle of the two moons
Day 1
Gaia's moon: Becomes stacked in front of Terra's moon; more visible
Terra's moon: Becomes stacked behind Gaia's moon; more hidden

Day 16
Gaia's moon: Becomes stacked behind Terra's moon; more hidden
Terra's moon: Becomes stacked in front of Gaia's moon; more visible

Day 32
Gaia's moon: Becomes stacked in front of Terra's moon; more visible
Terra's moon: Becomes stacked behind Gaia's moon; more hidden

Day 48
Gaia's moon: Becomes stacked behind Terra's moon; more hidden
Terra's moon: Becomes stacked in front of Gaia's moon; more visible

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1876/moons4.jpg
[Figure 7] Picture from development (Illustration: Hideo Minaba)

The crystals and the Shimmering Island
The light of the Shimmering Island is the radiance of the crystals emanating from the dimensional interval where Gaia and Terra are joined together, and is the subject of religious faith for the inhabitants of Esto Gaza.

When the gate to enter or leave Terra is open, this radiance is at its greatest.



So there you have it: FF astronomy is boring as shit.

By the way, Mako wanted me to find out if the book had anything to say on the eidolon Ark or the boss Ozma.

Specifically, he was wondering if Ark might be from Terra and if Ozma might be a dead eidolon. This book doesn't have a lot to say about either beyond basic battle and bestiary data, but what it does offer might be helpful.

[Edit to fix bad memory about Ark from the game; had him confused with something else for a second. Anyway, nothing useful about him.]

Ozma, though, I have better news about. The English strategy guide called that little rock at the Chocobo Air Garden an "Eidolon grave," right? That's what started the belief that Ozma is a dead eidolon, I think.

Well, the good news is, the maps section of the book also calls that rock an eidolon grave, or summon burial mound (??????).

So, I guess I was able to answer that much.

 

[Mantichorus]

Hey, I for one was always interested in how the lunar cycle...s in FFIX worked. Thanks for all the new info.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Aww, I'm sorry you were so bored with that section. But I thought it was pretty cool, and thank you so much for doing it!!!!

And cool, so I guess Ozma is a dead, forgotten Eidolon. I'm glad.

And I guess Ark is an Eidolon from Terra. Okay, cool

Thanks so much for this!!

 

[Tetsujin]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=544.msg20921#msg20921 date=1235221419]

And cool, so I guess Ozma is a dead, forgotten Eidolon. I'm glad.


[/quote]

You're glad that it's dead and forgotten? You're so cold, man.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Fuck that tie-dye ball. If it's so cheap that it'd use Curse three times in a row, and finish it off with Meteor, then yes.

It deserves being dead and forgotten.

Worst super-boss in FF. Ever.

 

[Tetsujin]

Maybe it's being a cheap ass because people want it to be dead and forgotten? It just wants some love, man D=

 

[Makoeyes987]

You gotta show love to get love >O

You know, I just remembered one thing that I always wondered about FFIX...I don't know if the Ultimania would say anything but maybe...

I always wondered...do Black Mages have genders? And...how did Vivi have children? What was up with that? Does anyone even have any idea or know what the hell that's about?

 

[Tetsujin]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=544.msg20954#msg20954 date=1235223548]
You gotta show love to get love >O

You know, I just remembered one thing that I always wondered about FFIX...I don't know if the Ultimania would say anything but maybe...

I always wondered...do Black Mages have genders? And...how did Vivi have children? What was up with that? Does anyone even have any idea or know what the hell that's about?
[/quote]

Good question there.

More importantly though...how does a Black Mage look like underneath that hat? =o

 

[Strangelove]

[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=544.msg20288#msg20288 date=1235176570]
So why does this happen with FF7 and no other game? Hell, Xenogears, which is far, far more complex than FF7, never had ten years straight of bad theories based on bad interpretations, confused fans asking dumb questions, pointless debates because nobody understood, or much of a reputation for having an unclear story.
[/quote]
Didn't Xenogears have its Perfect Guide for years, though? (Pretty much since its release.)

I don't know much about Xenogears and its fandom, but I always thought the PG got brought up when things needed clarifying, like how FFVII fans use the Ultimanias.

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=544.msg20291#msg20291 date=1235176939]
Dude. You asked what the FFX Ultimania guide says, but I'm reading through it and I see a poster from 2005 named "vilaeth" posting there, talking about it.

Coincidence?
[/quote]
I completely forgot about that I remembered it when CACF mentioned Yevon using Gravity spells/etc. But I think I've forgotten most of it.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=544.msg20974#msg20974 date=1235226683]
[quote author=The Notorious M.O.G. link=topic=544.msg20288#msg20288 date=1235176570]

I don't know much about Xenogears and its fandom, but I always thought the PG got brought up when things needed clarifying, like how FFVII fans use the Ultimanias.

[/quote]

I've seen Perfect Works get brought up pretty often in Xenogears discussions myself.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, it's just recently being translated seriously. By one guy, no less.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29956195@N08/sets/72157607374709460/

 

[Max Payne]

What? I thought that was translated before. I remember reading it. Years ago at that.

That's weird.

 

[Cthulhu]

[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=544.msg20968#msg20968 date=1235224916]
More importantly though...how does a Black Mage look like underneath that hat? =o
[/quote]

Like a black blob with glowing eyes? You can see right underneath the hat, and real people know that you can't hide a face in blackness with just a hat, especially not in bright (day) light and whatnot.

Besides, they're animated dolls, they have no face.

 

[curiousACfan]

There's nothing about the Black Mages having genders from what I can see at a glance (just Type A, B and C), and I don't see anything about Vivi's kids. The book doesn't really talk about the ending of the game much.

Just what's in the main timeline and the characters' personal timelines (mentions that each goes back to their homes on March 17th, the day after the Iifa Tree stopped moving). All it says about Vivi is that he went to the Black Mage Village on the 17th.

The only other thing of interest I've noticed is that all the structures from Terra are identified. They include Gulug Volcano, the Desert Palace, Ipsen's Castle, Oeilvert, and, of course, the Iifa Tree.

 

[Cthulhu]

[quote author=curiousACfan link=topic=544.msg21018#msg21018 date=1235240865]
The only other thing of interest I've noticed is that all the structures from Terra are identified. They include Gulug Volcano, the Desert Palace, Ipsen's Castle, Oeilvert, and, of course, the Iifa Tree.
[/quote]

Yar, I never got the impression those sites were from another planet, was that ever hinted at in the game anywhere?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Those places all have Terran writing in them. And Gulug Volcano reacts with the Gulug Stone...an artifact from Terra.

 

[curiousACfan]

From just playing the game, I don't think you'd ever get that impression, Cthulhu. Most of them obviously have some kind of connection to Terra, of course, but the concept that they were literally lifted from one planet to the other is something no one considered without the Ultimania.

I might have to concede that the Ultimania really helps make better sense of that aspect of things. Otherwise, those locations are just sort of conveniently there. You know they have a connection to Terra, of course, but you still wonder how the hell they got there.

Garland is really the only person who could have built them if they were constructed on Gaia, and there's no obvious reason for him to have done so. And, of course, you're left wondering why the Gulug Stone would be in Oeilvert.

So, yeah, I guess the Ultimania does help make sense of some things with IX. Had to think about it alittle.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I toyed with the idea that somehow Oeilvert was teleported from Terra to Gaia, or at least built thousand of years ago by Terrans.

I mean, at the very least you KNOW it came from Terra. Remember the talking faces? They talk about Terra's history, preserving it, show you blueprints for the Invincible...things only Terrans would know from the past.

 

[curiousACfan]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=544.msg21328#msg21328 date=1235273724]
I toyed with the idea that somehow Oeilvert was teleported from Terra to Gaia, or at least built thousand of years ago by Terrans.[/quote]

Correction then: One person considered that those structures may have come from Terra prior to the Ultimania. XD

I have to say the thought never crossed my mind, nor did the idea that Terra and Gaia were physically merging -- much less that Terra was inside of Gaia! I thought it was just sitting out in space somewhere.

As for Oeilvert, I never knew why it was there. I knew the people of Terra didn't build it on Gaia since they were asleep, and I didn't see a reason for Garland to do it.

This definitely does help make more sense of that.

By the way, in case you're wondering which part of the Ultimania identifies which buildings came from Terra, it's on page 42, near the bottom, on the right. The "Kuja's dilemma" section (????????).

Also, that part about the "summon burial mound" is on page 491. I haven't scanned it, so let me know if you wanted it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I knew there had to be *some* dimensional connection. Remember the observatory in Pandemonium? Which Garland showed Zidane, and it had Terra and Gaia slowly merging, and Gaia turning red? And then the same in Memoria?

And how would the Ifa Tree be getting the souls to put into Gaia if Terra and Gaia weren't dimensionally linked? I knew that they *were* but I didn't know that it was literally INSIDE the planet. That threw me.

I mean, spirits can't just be broadcast like radio waves, after all.

Also, cool, thanks for letting me know the sources! And that's okay, you don't need to scan that. Its cool

 

[Ⓐaron]

This thread makes me want to replay FFIX. I think I'm finally going to hook up my PS2 again.

well done @ translators.

 

[curiousACfan]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=544.msg21336#msg21336 date=1235276909]
I knew there had to be *some* dimensional connection. Remember the observatory in Pandemonium? Which Garland showed Zidane, and it had Terra and Gaia slowly merging, and Gaia turning red? And then the same in Memoria?[/quote]

A dimensional connection, sure. That much was obvious with the Shimmering Island. The physical connection just never occurred to me. In retrospect, the hint was there, but it seemed metaphorical at the time.

I mean, spirits can't just be broadcast like radio waves, after all.

If we can accept a giant destructive tree that plays with souls, we could have believed that too.

Also, cool, thanks for letting me know the sources! And that's okay, you don't need to scan that. Its cool

No problem. If you change your mind, let me know.