FFVII CHARACTER SMACKDOWN - The Neutrals Championship
- Thread starter fancy
- Start date
fancy
pants
- AKA
- Fancy
Battle Post - ROUND 1-3
Doctor - A considerate physician who runs a clinic down in Mideel and has experience with cases involving mako poisoning...
Are you ready Team Chocobo?
Elder Hargo - A wise man of Cosmo Canyon who doesn’t believe in the Promised Land, but also doesn’t believe that such an idea is merely a fairytale...
Are you ready Team Moogle?
___________________
The countdown begins when the first team player posts!
Round 1-3
Your Teams...
Ergo Proxy
LicoriceAllsorts
Minato
Channy
BforB
Clement Rage
Your Champions...
VS
The Location...
Fish Room (Forgotten Capital)
Your Teams...
Ergo Proxy
LicoriceAllsorts
Minato
Channy
BforB
Clement Rage
Your Champions...
The Location...
Fish Room (Forgotten Capital)
Doctor - A considerate physician who runs a clinic down in Mideel and has experience with cases involving mako poisoning...
Are you ready Team Chocobo?
Elder Hargo - A wise man of Cosmo Canyon who doesn’t believe in the Promised Land, but also doesn’t believe that such an idea is merely a fairytale...
Are you ready Team Moogle?
___________________
The countdown begins when the first team player posts!
Last edited:
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Elder Hargo has a clear terrain advantage here. He's one of the foremost experts on the Cetra, and they're in the City of the Ancients. Meanwhile, the Doctor, a man of science has little understanding of mystical things, he could do nothing to help Cloud with a spiritual ailment, and outsourced his care to his loved ones, how negligent is that? He takes every opportunity to leave the room and get away from his patient, that's not a man with the determination or will to win a fight. I mean, the nurse is the one that can actually restore HP and MP, the Doc takes every opportunity to do nothing at all.
Elder Hargo is also old enough to have proper combat experience against the Gi, and has familiarity with Cetra lore. If anyone can weaponise that fish, it's Hargo.
Elder Hargo is also old enough to have proper combat experience against the Gi, and has familiarity with Cetra lore. If anyone can weaponise that fish, it's Hargo.
fancy
pants
- AKA
- Fancy
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww SHIT!
Let the record show that the battle phase of Round 1-3 was initiated by Team Moogle on 12th May, 23:03 GMT.
All players have until...
14th May, 23:03 GMT
...to make their cases.
Here's a link to a time zone converter in case anyone needs it.
Will this be Team Moogle's 3rd victory in a row?? Will Team Chocobo deliver a counterargument that will blow the socks off spectators?? Oooh, I can scarcely contain my excitement!!
Best of luck to both teams!
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
Elder Hargo is a fan of the Ancients, not an expert. Being in the Forgotten City is more likely to distract Hargo from the fight more then anything else. Which he can ill afford given that he is up against a much younger man, Doc is by no means young, yet Hargo probably has about 50 years on him.
As for combat experience, let's try to remember that hippy central is actually much much more connected to the outside world and urbanised then Mideel. Mideel is an harsh place, with no easily accessible shores, Mako energy in a monster infested forest that their town have no natural defenses against. It's plagued by earthquakes and the Lifestream sometimes gushes out there. Powerful monsters like the green dragon that called for SOLDIER intervention after leaks at the Mako Reactor in Nibelheim are likely produced there all the time.
When the Meteor comes to destroy the Planet this is a place where it's greeted with quiet resignation of those who feel this generally falls in line with their lot in life thus far. I'd wager the contents of it's weapon shop as rather more used by it's citizens then the Tiger Lily Arms Shop. Mideel doesn't offer franchised stores that ship food in and pilgrims that come and spend their money. Food has to be gathered in the jungle in Mideel.
As for the Doctor's will and determination. Yes; He steps outside to give Cloud and Tifa some room, he doesn't go alone, he candidly tells the others to go with him, when the enormous man with a gun for an arm that just barged into his clinic mumbles his misgivings about his new patient under his breath, the doc doesn't hesitate to tell him speak up. He's not intimidated by a group of armed strangers. A lone geriatric old man isn't either.
As for combat experience, let's try to remember that hippy central is actually much much more connected to the outside world and urbanised then Mideel. Mideel is an harsh place, with no easily accessible shores, Mako energy in a monster infested forest that their town have no natural defenses against. It's plagued by earthquakes and the Lifestream sometimes gushes out there. Powerful monsters like the green dragon that called for SOLDIER intervention after leaks at the Mako Reactor in Nibelheim are likely produced there all the time.
When the Meteor comes to destroy the Planet this is a place where it's greeted with quiet resignation of those who feel this generally falls in line with their lot in life thus far. I'd wager the contents of it's weapon shop as rather more used by it's citizens then the Tiger Lily Arms Shop. Mideel doesn't offer franchised stores that ship food in and pilgrims that come and spend their money. Food has to be gathered in the jungle in Mideel.
As for the Doctor's will and determination. Yes; He steps outside to give Cloud and Tifa some room, he doesn't go alone, he candidly tells the others to go with him, when the enormous man with a gun for an arm that just barged into his clinic mumbles his misgivings about his new patient under his breath, the doc doesn't hesitate to tell him speak up. He's not intimidated by a group of armed strangers. A lone geriatric old man isn't either.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
We see one earthquake, which flattens the town. That's not how a place that is used to earthquakes reacts, they'd build their buildings to take the hits if it was a regular occurrence. Tifa has to suggest they move Cloud before the it occurs to the doctor. He doesn't seem experienced with this kind of thing.
Elder Hargo says his job is to gather the wisdom of the Ancients, and Cosmo Canyon is the foremost authority on the Cetra and the Planet. Bugenhagen is able to figure out how to work their machinery almost immediately. If there's any kind of security system, Hargo will be able to turn it on.
Talk of dragons is supposition, they seem native to the Nibel mountains anyway. Isn't it the Genesis copies that were the problem and the Makonoids? You can't fit dragons in those Mako tanks.
Mideel is described as a 'sleepy resort town' by one of its residents, not some harsh unrelenting battle for survival. It's also extremely fertile and lush, making gathering food far more easy than in the barren stone wastes of Cosmo Canyon, which is required to be fortified against threats.
Cosmo Canyon is in the middle of a barren maze of Canyons where there is an active threat to the town in living memory through the Gi. Elder Hargo most likely fought in that war, the same one that killed Red XIII's parents and drove his species to the brink of extinction. There's no sense of an active, organised threat to the town of Mideel, they rely on AVALANCHE to fend off the only threat that arrives.
Are we sure the old man isn't intimidated? No matter what answer the party gives, he allows them to take the (valuable) elixir with no further argument. That's a man saving face after being blatantly robbed.
Elder Hargo says his job is to gather the wisdom of the Ancients, and Cosmo Canyon is the foremost authority on the Cetra and the Planet. Bugenhagen is able to figure out how to work their machinery almost immediately. If there's any kind of security system, Hargo will be able to turn it on.
Talk of dragons is supposition, they seem native to the Nibel mountains anyway. Isn't it the Genesis copies that were the problem and the Makonoids? You can't fit dragons in those Mako tanks.
Mideel is described as a 'sleepy resort town' by one of its residents, not some harsh unrelenting battle for survival. It's also extremely fertile and lush, making gathering food far more easy than in the barren stone wastes of Cosmo Canyon, which is required to be fortified against threats.
Cosmo Canyon is in the middle of a barren maze of Canyons where there is an active threat to the town in living memory through the Gi. Elder Hargo most likely fought in that war, the same one that killed Red XIII's parents and drove his species to the brink of extinction. There's no sense of an active, organised threat to the town of Mideel, they rely on AVALANCHE to fend off the only threat that arrives.
Are we sure the old man isn't intimidated? No matter what answer the party gives, he allows them to take the (valuable) elixir with no further argument. That's a man saving face after being blatantly robbed.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
You visit Mideel because you are told that the Lifestream gushes out there sometimes, not always but in bursts, we go on to see how this goes about: Earthquakes. This is a big one as the doctor himself says but that doesn't mean it's first and only. In Kalm you are told to go Mideel specifically to meet a doctor who has experience with the Lifestream.
As for Nibelheim, when the truck is attacked Sephiroth says that this must be the monster, when they arrive in Nibelheim the team remarks that you can smell the Mako in the air, as such the populace has retreated into their houses and there is no one around. The Makonoids are safely in their tanks. In Nibelheim, this is a special circumstance brought about by malfunction in the reactor that they hope is resolved by outside intervention, in Mideel locale, this is just how it is. The Lifestream naturally plagues the land here and the doctor has made a business of dealing with it.
As for the claim that Cosmo Canyon is in some barren waste.
It's like 10 minutes away from the main highway.
Also Buganhagen he is mentioned by Red XIII as being a former Shin-Ra employee, it is far more likely that his aptidute for understanding machinery stems from a unnaturally long lifetime of operating them, Hargo is by no means the next best thing to him.
As for Nibelheim, when the truck is attacked Sephiroth says that this must be the monster, when they arrive in Nibelheim the team remarks that you can smell the Mako in the air, as such the populace has retreated into their houses and there is no one around. The Makonoids are safely in their tanks. In Nibelheim, this is a special circumstance brought about by malfunction in the reactor that they hope is resolved by outside intervention, in Mideel locale, this is just how it is. The Lifestream naturally plagues the land here and the doctor has made a business of dealing with it.
As for the claim that Cosmo Canyon is in some barren waste.
It's like 10 minutes away from the main highway.
Also Buganhagen he is mentioned by Red XIII as being a former Shin-Ra employee, it is far more likely that his aptidute for understanding machinery stems from a unnaturally long lifetime of operating them, Hargo is by no means the next best thing to him.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Perhaps Elder Hargo did have the honour of fighting the Gi. Perhaps if Elder Hargo (and the other two-legged inhabitants of Cosmo Canyon) had been half-way decent fighters, Seto would not have needed to give his life in their defence. The truth is, Cosmo Canyoners are pacifists; they don't need to fight, and they don't know how to fight, because for long generations Nanaki's ancestors have protected them.
Elder Hargo's long life is not his claim to fame, it's a badge of his shame, his inability to fight even to protect the thing that mattered to him the most. If he can't fight to defend Cosmo Canyon, how can he hope to triumph in a meaninglessly smack-down against a stranger who means nothing to him?
Let's not forget what the shopkeeper told Cloud: 'The people of this canyon hate to compete.'
You can't train for battle without competing.
As well as lacking any kind of martial arts training, Elder Hargo's mental faculties don't seem to be as sharp as they used to be. He struggles to remember where he put things:
And he constantly contradicts himself. One minute he's telling you it's his job to collect legends, the next he's rebuking you, "I'd appreciate it if you don't talk to me about such foolish things as legends and old wives tales." Does he even know what he's doing any more? Can he be trusted to remember he's in an actual fight? Or will he go, "Oh, look, a goldfish! Shiny!" and toddle off to stare into the water, having forgotten where he is and why he came there? I think we all know the answer.
The kindest thing would be for Bugenhagen to respectfully decline, on Hargo's behalf, the invitation to partake in this tournament, allowing the good Doctor to advance unopposed to the next stage. Hargo probably hasn't got many years left; we wouldn't want to hasten him into his grave.
Elder Hargo's long life is not his claim to fame, it's a badge of his shame, his inability to fight even to protect the thing that mattered to him the most. If he can't fight to defend Cosmo Canyon, how can he hope to triumph in a meaninglessly smack-down against a stranger who means nothing to him?
Let's not forget what the shopkeeper told Cloud: 'The people of this canyon hate to compete.'
You can't train for battle without competing.
As well as lacking any kind of martial arts training, Elder Hargo's mental faculties don't seem to be as sharp as they used to be. He struggles to remember where he put things:
And he constantly contradicts himself. One minute he's telling you it's his job to collect legends, the next he's rebuking you, "I'd appreciate it if you don't talk to me about such foolish things as legends and old wives tales." Does he even know what he's doing any more? Can he be trusted to remember he's in an actual fight? Or will he go, "Oh, look, a goldfish! Shiny!" and toddle off to stare into the water, having forgotten where he is and why he came there? I think we all know the answer.
The kindest thing would be for Bugenhagen to respectfully decline, on Hargo's behalf, the invitation to partake in this tournament, allowing the good Doctor to advance unopposed to the next stage. Hargo probably hasn't got many years left; we wouldn't want to hasten him into his grave.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
NPC Dialogue in Mideel indicates that the Lifestream has only truly started becoming disturbed recently.
I'd lke to correct the record in one regard, in fact its described as a 'quiet hot springs town', as opposed to resort town. 'Quiet' indicates few disturbances or violence.
And he's wrong. Dragons are naturally occurring monsters you can encounter in other places around the globe in cave ridden areas, whether there's a reactor nearby or not. There's no facility in the Nibelheim reactor for making dragons. And Mideel has no reactor anyway. It has easily accessible beaches just fine. But no Dragons we ever see. Meanwhile, there are still Dragons in the mountains years later after the reactor is fixed.
Your own photo shows nothing to indicate that Cosmo Canyon isn't a barren wasteland. There's no greenery there. Further, the roadsign indicates that it's 80 units of measurement away. Whatever they measure distance with in that world, that ain't ten minutes even as the crow flies, never mind navigating twisting canyons that can damage even durable craft that can traverse river and desert. We do however know that the Highwind can only land some distance away as the terrain is too inhospitable closer to the town. Cosmo Canyon is one of the only towns on the Planet that maintains a guard on the front gate.
Bugenhagen is brought to the City of the Ancients because of his knowledge of Cetra lore, and it's a Cetra machine I'm referring to, not a Shinra design. And Elder Hargo is acknowledged to collect Cetra lore as well.
Seto gave his life because he was in the secret cave, while everyone else was battling the rest of the Gi at the front. They don't need to buy weapons, because the veterans maintain their own. They don't compete, because there are enough battles with Desert Sahagin just collecting the post.
In Mideel, the owner of the Weapons store complains about how dead sales are, she has to frantically solicit business even after that panicked shopper buys up everything pre Meteorfall. And the doctor will have to fight unarmed, because Chocobo lady bought up any available weapons already.
A historian will tell you you need to be discerning in your sources when gathering lore. He doesn't want to listen to Cloud's stories because he won't get anything from Cloud he doesn't already know.
So we have hardened veteran Hargo from a town that has known battle in the past, vs a Doctor with no weapons (because Chocobo lady bought them all) and no help (because he doesn't have any loved ones to press gang into working for him or the nurse that actually does all the work for him), in an unfamiliar location. This is a man whose medical advice is always 'wait and see', who is so ignorant of his surroundings that he doesn't think anyone was seriously hurt in the quake despite the weapon shop owner screaming for her disappeared husband thirty feet away. A man so disposed towards doing nothing that he's likely to just surrender to spare himself the effort of acting.
I'd lke to correct the record in one regard, in fact its described as a 'quiet hot springs town', as opposed to resort town. 'Quiet' indicates few disturbances or violence.
And he's wrong. Dragons are naturally occurring monsters you can encounter in other places around the globe in cave ridden areas, whether there's a reactor nearby or not. There's no facility in the Nibelheim reactor for making dragons. And Mideel has no reactor anyway. It has easily accessible beaches just fine. But no Dragons we ever see. Meanwhile, there are still Dragons in the mountains years later after the reactor is fixed.
Your own photo shows nothing to indicate that Cosmo Canyon isn't a barren wasteland. There's no greenery there. Further, the roadsign indicates that it's 80 units of measurement away. Whatever they measure distance with in that world, that ain't ten minutes even as the crow flies, never mind navigating twisting canyons that can damage even durable craft that can traverse river and desert. We do however know that the Highwind can only land some distance away as the terrain is too inhospitable closer to the town. Cosmo Canyon is one of the only towns on the Planet that maintains a guard on the front gate.
Bugenhagen is brought to the City of the Ancients because of his knowledge of Cetra lore, and it's a Cetra machine I'm referring to, not a Shinra design. And Elder Hargo is acknowledged to collect Cetra lore as well.
Seto gave his life because he was in the secret cave, while everyone else was battling the rest of the Gi at the front. They don't need to buy weapons, because the veterans maintain their own. They don't compete, because there are enough battles with Desert Sahagin just collecting the post.
In Mideel, the owner of the Weapons store complains about how dead sales are, she has to frantically solicit business even after that panicked shopper buys up everything pre Meteorfall. And the doctor will have to fight unarmed, because Chocobo lady bought up any available weapons already.
A historian will tell you you need to be discerning in your sources when gathering lore. He doesn't want to listen to Cloud's stories because he won't get anything from Cloud he doesn't already know.
So we have hardened veteran Hargo from a town that has known battle in the past, vs a Doctor with no weapons (because Chocobo lady bought them all) and no help (because he doesn't have any loved ones to press gang into working for him or the nurse that actually does all the work for him), in an unfamiliar location. This is a man whose medical advice is always 'wait and see', who is so ignorant of his surroundings that he doesn't think anyone was seriously hurt in the quake despite the weapon shop owner screaming for her disappeared husband thirty feet away. A man so disposed towards doing nothing that he's likely to just surrender to spare himself the effort of acting.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
What front? There is no mention of any front in the OG. However, it is repeatedly stated that Seto fought the Gi alone.
Bugenhagen
This warrior went through the cave all alone.
Fighting attackers one after another...
Bugenhagen
...The warrior who fought against the Gi.
He kept them from taking even one step into Cosmo Canyon.
But he was never able to return to town...
Look, Nanaki. Look at your father, at the warrior, Seto.
Bugenhagen
You thought that he was a coward and ran away. But he, alone risked his life to protect Cosmo Canyon.
That is your father, Seto. [my italics]
Everything in the OG implies that the people of Cosmo Canyon devote their lives to peaceful pursuits, and are protected by the beings of Nanaki's tribe. Nanaki and his people fight; Hargo and his people don't fight.
Channy
Bad Habit
- AKA
- Ruby Rose, Lucy
There have been many arguments supporting the Scientist's lackadaisical approach to medicine; yes he may be the sole doctor on a small island, but how did he treat his most fragile patient? By surrendering his care over to someone else. He didn't know Tifa or that she was a friend to Cloud - any doctor worth their salt would stand by their patient, ensuring the best, most responsible care for them.
This was no minor wound either, Cloud was left practically infantilized from lifestream poisoning. He should have been dedicated to Cloud, not relinquishing care over to someone with big boobs. For all he knew, she may have been there to finish the job. And then what?! Cloud's actual relatives or friends could have sued the doctor for malpractice/neglect, costing him his license. And then what is he? No longer a doctor or scientist, that's for sure.
Ergo, who's side are you on? Because you're making a very commendable case for my candidate Elder Hargo, here.
Elder Hargo may not have the mandatory years spent in a scholarly institute to warrant the name of "scientist" but I think he is every meaning of the word. You have stated yourself several times he has the love, the passion, the fortitude to notice the minor intricacies of his surroundings (especially one he may be enamoured with)... that is the very definition of a dedicated intellectual. They may be considered hippie elders, but the elders of Cosmo Canyon are it's scientists, it's doctors, it's self-trained professionals who love, admire, and cherish the planet, and most of all, it's history. If anything, being in the City of the Ancients would put Elder Hargo at a serious advantage, as he would devote every last breath to defending this historical place.
Aptitude and tutelage will only get you so far, but it is the love and passion for what you do that drives you. It is Hargo's passion that would drive him to pick up a sword and defend himself and the City of the Ancients from this nefarious "scientist", who may know how to pick up a sword, but would he?
This was no minor wound either, Cloud was left practically infantilized from lifestream poisoning. He should have been dedicated to Cloud, not relinquishing care over to someone with big boobs. For all he knew, she may have been there to finish the job. And then what?! Cloud's actual relatives or friends could have sued the doctor for malpractice/neglect, costing him his license. And then what is he? No longer a doctor or scientist, that's for sure.
Ergo, who's side are you on? Because you're making a very commendable case for my candidate Elder Hargo, here.
Elder Hargo may not have the mandatory years spent in a scholarly institute to warrant the name of "scientist" but I think he is every meaning of the word. You have stated yourself several times he has the love, the passion, the fortitude to notice the minor intricacies of his surroundings (especially one he may be enamoured with)... that is the very definition of a dedicated intellectual. They may be considered hippie elders, but the elders of Cosmo Canyon are it's scientists, it's doctors, it's self-trained professionals who love, admire, and cherish the planet, and most of all, it's history. If anything, being in the City of the Ancients would put Elder Hargo at a serious advantage, as he would devote every last breath to defending this historical place.
Aptitude and tutelage will only get you so far, but it is the love and passion for what you do that drives you. It is Hargo's passion that would drive him to pick up a sword and defend himself and the City of the Ancients from this nefarious "scientist", who may know how to pick up a sword, but would he?
fancy
pants
- AKA
- Fancy
Oi, I reckon that this is our most intense match so far. The arguments on both sides are so strong! I don’t know where I stand! Kudos to our team players for making this match so interesting.
Friendly reminder to players that as of the 13th May, 23:04 GMT, you have less than 24 hours to sway Spectators.
Here's a link to a time zone converter in case anyone needs it.
Keep kickin’ that ass!
Channy
Bad Habit
- AKA
- Ruby Rose, Lucy
They do not throw the name Elder around lightly in Cosmo Canyon. A title is to be earned, to be respected even. No less so than someone who read from a book and passed a test to earn a title of Scientist/Doctor. He may not have fought in the Great Gi War (though it is not really proven otherwise. We know there was more to be battle of the Gi tribe and that Seto was the one who sealed off the cave) but he certainly a more admirable adversary that that quailing “Doctor” who abandoned his patient the moment things turned sideways in Mideel. In fact all elder Hargo has to do is pray to the planet for a minor earthquake (or cast it himself) and the good doctor will go fleeing from the fight (likely from ptsd).
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
Is it bad that I can see a point no one has brought up yet?
I'm not spectating this in an offical capacity, but this has been a lot of fun to read...
I'm not spectating this in an offical capacity, but this has been a lot of fun to read...
Last edited:
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
He fought the Gi alone in the cave, but that wasn't the whole battle. There was also the battle Red's mother died in. The Gi attacked, and Seto apparently ran away and left the others for dead. Red hated him because he never knew he had actually gone alone to defend the secret cave. Seto was alone in the cave, but he wasn't the only one fighting that day. His mom and the other fighters were at the front of the canyon, Seto was defending the secret entrance.
Doctor, not surgeon or anaesthetist. Those are highly specialist fields, whereas our Doctor runs a two room clinic with one nurse, he ain't doing major surgery. Anyone that needs that is going to either die or be airlifted somewhere else.
People tend to use weapons, rather than medical equipment to kill people for reasons. It is difficult to inject or use a scalpel on someone armed and resisting. If you're attacking someone with a sword or spear, you have far more reach and penetration. You don't just drop anaesthetics on the floor like tear gas and expect it to work, you need a gasmask or an injection at close range, which isn't instantly effective even if it works.
Cosmo Canyon isn't primitive, it's a highly scientifically literate place. Bugenhagen uses complex technology and is the most qualified person in the world on Cetra lore. People that want to know about how the Planet works come and study with the Elders of Cosmo Canyon to expand their knowledge, including the likes of Gast, who is highly qualified himself. Scientists and Doctors come to Cosmo Canyon to learn, not the other way around.
The Doctor will have no idea what's going on if he finds himself in the City of the Ancients, while Hargo will adjust far quicker, and given his combat experience against the Gi, fight far harder than the indolent doc. As he tries to understand he'll likely blind himself on the knowledge in the walls that make Cloud flinch, leaving him open to the experienced war veteran Hargo.
The Doctor is notably weak in spiritual matters, he was helpless against Cloud's spiritual complaint. He's in one of the most spiritual places on the Planet, and will struggle to adjust.
fancy
pants
- AKA
- Fancy
Oooooh I do hope you elaborate after the match is finished! Mayhaps in the master thread as we risk swaying a vote here (I’ve been thinking of that thread as something of a ‘lounge area’ haha). Also! May we look forward to seeing you parake in this game one of these days? Methinks you’d be rather good at this!!
Agreed with the fun to read bit! Round one with the chocobo driver had me laughing the hardest, but this match has been the most compelling.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
Maybe... unfortunately, I am very good at playing Devil's Advocate with myself so I'd probably end up arguing for/against both sides!
I will have to check in on the Master Thread though if nobody catches it...
I will have to check in on the Master Thread though if nobody catches it...
Last edited:
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Let's be clear. We have no evidence that anyone aside from Nanaki's parents died fighting the Gi. It would be less of a stretch to assume that they died because they were fighting alone than to assume that Nanaki's mother had Canyonmen fighting with her when Seto was fighting alone. It would also be rather sexist, when we all know that the female of the species is deadlier than the male. So let's hear no more of this sophistry that Hargo must have fought in the Gi war simply because the Gi war happened. The mere fact that he's still alive strongly suggests that he didn't. . The Canyon people have always depended on Nanaki's people for their defence: it's a symbiotic relationship, like the clownfish and the anemone. The clownfish has no defensive abilities because it relies on the anemone to keep its enemies at bay.
Far from being a negligent healer, our Doctor is a great psychologist. He understands that, as a consequence of mako poisoning, the root of Cloud's illness lies in his mind, and that his best chance of healing lies in the support and positivity of his friends. He hardly abandons Cloud; he simply takes the Avalanche crowd into the next room so that Tifa and Cloud can have some privacy, while he briefs the rest of Cloud's friends on the situation. Though he himself cannot cure Cloud, he has an inkling of who can, and creates the opportunity for that to happen.
It's clear that he is still the doctor in charge of Cloud's case when Tifa consults him during the earthquake:
"Tifa
This is bad...... The tremors are getting worse.
Wait a minute, Cloud.
Doctor! Shouldn't we move him somewhere rather than stay here...?"
Speaking of which, it becomes obvious that Mideel is an area that is regularly stricken by quakes when the nurse exclaims, "I hate earthquakes!" How would she know she hated them unless she had experienced them before?
So let's recap:
- No evidence that Elder Hargo ever fought in a battle or has any self-defense skills whatsoever (plus, his mental faculties are failing)
- Plenty of evidence that the doctor continues to care for Cloud until the very moment when the earthquake destroys the clinic
- some evidence that the Mideel area is regularly struck by earthquakes
Far from being a negligent healer, our Doctor is a great psychologist. He understands that, as a consequence of mako poisoning, the root of Cloud's illness lies in his mind, and that his best chance of healing lies in the support and positivity of his friends. He hardly abandons Cloud; he simply takes the Avalanche crowd into the next room so that Tifa and Cloud can have some privacy, while he briefs the rest of Cloud's friends on the situation. Though he himself cannot cure Cloud, he has an inkling of who can, and creates the opportunity for that to happen.
It's clear that he is still the doctor in charge of Cloud's case when Tifa consults him during the earthquake:
"Tifa
This is bad...... The tremors are getting worse.
Wait a minute, Cloud.
Doctor! Shouldn't we move him somewhere rather than stay here...?"
Speaking of which, it becomes obvious that Mideel is an area that is regularly stricken by quakes when the nurse exclaims, "I hate earthquakes!" How would she know she hated them unless she had experienced them before?
So let's recap:
- No evidence that Elder Hargo ever fought in a battle or has any self-defense skills whatsoever (plus, his mental faculties are failing)
- Plenty of evidence that the doctor continues to care for Cloud until the very moment when the earthquake destroys the clinic
- some evidence that the Mideel area is regularly struck by earthquakes
Channy
Bad Habit
- AKA
- Ruby Rose, Lucy
I’m not sure what the earthquake evidence is for supporting the doctor... but in your own quotes portion it is Tifa who asks the doctor to move Cloud for his safety, not the other way around. The doctor would sooner run for the hills and save his own hide when another earthquake came than try rescue Cloud. In fact, he does just that! In the sequence hat follows its Tifa with the wheelchair and Cloud falling in those depths.
Oh where is our friend the doctor?? Nowhere in sight.
Oh where is our friend the doctor?? Nowhere in sight.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
The doctor stayed behind, to make sure everyone got out safely, and was crushed in the collapse of his clinic. Like a good captain, he went down with his ship. The courage he demonstrated in this crisis makes a stark contrast to Elder Hargo hiding behind Seto and Nanaki's mother when the Gi attacked.
(If he'd followed Cloud and Tifa too closely he'd have ended up in the Lifestream sequenced with them, and that would have been weird.)
(If he'd followed Cloud and Tifa too closely he'd have ended up in the Lifestream sequenced with them, and that would have been weird.)
Mother
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- B
Elder Hargo sits cross-legged by the fish, staring up at his opponent through the translucent green tendrils of the hypnotically swaying anemone. The doctor appears slightly younger, perhaps even more agile, and looks down on the Elder with a smug turn of his lips underneath his moustache.
Elder Hargo is unsettlingly calm. The Doctor takes a tentative step, but stops when Elder Hargo closes his eyes.
Harnessing the spirits that loom over the Forgotten City, Elder Hargo begins to chant, his age-ripened voice hoarse but speaking with an uncannily even cadence:
"An Ode To Seto
They hear you cry on the dark side of the moon
Awooooo, awooooo
The sky, she cries
Tears cold as your stone eyes
Spikes
Symbols of your sacrifice
Your son, left behind
He loved pork rinds
Champion of our sacred canyon
Sharp and bitey, a divine onion
The Gi unmatched to your strength
Grant me your spirit's power to the tenth"
The earth begins to shake, a rattling sound echoing throughout the hollow spiral. The Doctor braces himself against a wall as he is almost knocked off-balance by the tremors. Elder Hargo, imbued by the spirit of his own strength that lay dormant within him as well as the fighting spirit of Seto, begins to glow a mysterious blue light, illuminating himself as well as the fish before him. Elder Hargo, under the secrets that the lifelong tutelage of Bugenhagen has taught him, begins to hover in his sitting position, the blue light glowing brighter by the second.
It soon becomes too bright to look into directly, and The Doctor shields his eyes from the light. The air is growing cold, an icy wind gusting inside, its power exacerbated by the hollow spiral. The Doctor is shivering as he falls to his knees and his body folds unto itself, attempting to resist the pandemonium of elements clamouring around him.
Elder Hargo, still in his sitting position, hovers with placid composure in his place at the base of the room. He closes his eyes once more, and the room is suddenly engulfed by a final flurry of icy cold and a burst of white light!
...
The air settles, the icy sensation dissipating, and The Doctor wrenches open his eyelids, white spots still lingering in his eyesight. His eyes readjust... to reveal that the room has been tinted orange.
"Feeling comfortable?"
Though nowhere to be seen, the even cadence of Elder Hargo's age-ripened voice floats through the atmosphere, but his voice is muffled... Drowned out by womb-like white noise.
Swish, swish, swish.
Translucent green tendrils sway hypnotically before his very eyes, and The Doctor fearfully realises where he is, suddenly finding himself unable to move.
Elder Hargo is unsettlingly calm. The Doctor takes a tentative step, but stops when Elder Hargo closes his eyes.
Harnessing the spirits that loom over the Forgotten City, Elder Hargo begins to chant, his age-ripened voice hoarse but speaking with an uncannily even cadence:
"An Ode To Seto
They hear you cry on the dark side of the moon
Awooooo, awooooo
The sky, she cries
Tears cold as your stone eyes
Spikes
Symbols of your sacrifice
Your son, left behind
He loved pork rinds
Champion of our sacred canyon
Sharp and bitey, a divine onion
The Gi unmatched to your strength
Grant me your spirit's power to the tenth"
The earth begins to shake, a rattling sound echoing throughout the hollow spiral. The Doctor braces himself against a wall as he is almost knocked off-balance by the tremors. Elder Hargo, imbued by the spirit of his own strength that lay dormant within him as well as the fighting spirit of Seto, begins to glow a mysterious blue light, illuminating himself as well as the fish before him. Elder Hargo, under the secrets that the lifelong tutelage of Bugenhagen has taught him, begins to hover in his sitting position, the blue light glowing brighter by the second.
It soon becomes too bright to look into directly, and The Doctor shields his eyes from the light. The air is growing cold, an icy wind gusting inside, its power exacerbated by the hollow spiral. The Doctor is shivering as he falls to his knees and his body folds unto itself, attempting to resist the pandemonium of elements clamouring around him.
Elder Hargo, still in his sitting position, hovers with placid composure in his place at the base of the room. He closes his eyes once more, and the room is suddenly engulfed by a final flurry of icy cold and a burst of white light!
...
The air settles, the icy sensation dissipating, and The Doctor wrenches open his eyelids, white spots still lingering in his eyesight. His eyes readjust... to reveal that the room has been tinted orange.
"Feeling comfortable?"
Though nowhere to be seen, the even cadence of Elder Hargo's age-ripened voice floats through the atmosphere, but his voice is muffled... Drowned out by womb-like white noise.
Swish, swish, swish.
Translucent green tendrils sway hypnotically before his very eyes, and The Doctor fearfully realises where he is, suddenly finding himself unable to move.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
And Elder Hargo didn't use this incredible power of his to defeat
a) the Gi
b) Meteor
Because......?
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
"Ah, there you are," said the Doctor, making his way up the spiral path, bag in hand. "Sorry I'm late. I had a difficult case on my hands."
"Never mind, never mind." Elder Hargo looked around. "Oh, pretty fish. Are we in an aquarium?"
"Apparently this is the lost City of the Ancients. We've gathered to do battle."
"Ah, you don't say. How exciting. Are you a warrior?"
"I'm a doctor, and I'd like to get a move on. I have a house call booked at six."
"I used to know a doctor," said Elder Hargo dreamily. "His name was Gast. Doesn't that sound a bit like ghost? He came to Cosmo Canyon to study planet life. He was interested in the Ancients. Are you interested in the Ancients?"
"Not particularly."
"I collect legends of the Ancients. I study their ways."
"Then you must be fascinated to be here."
"Why, where are we? Oh, look, a fish. Are we in an aquarium?"
"Yes," said the doctor, opening his bag.
"I visited an aquarium once. No, not an aquarium. I went to the sea-side. You can see star fish in the rock pools, did you know that?"
"Really?" said the doctor, pulling the wrapper off a sterile hypodermic and affixing it to a syringe.
"Must we fight?" asked the old man querously. "I don't like fighting. I don't know how to fight. Even when I was a lad I didn't enjoy the roughhousing. I like to sit around the Candle, counting the stars and telling stories."
"And you soon will again," said the doctor, as he drew fluid into the syringe from a small glass vial.
"I hope that's homeopathic," said Elder Hargo. "My body is a temple."
"Tell me about the Ancients." The doctor peered over his glasses to check the dose.
"They wandered the Planet, cultivating life to enhance the lifestream. They were constantly on the move to wherever they were needed. It was a meaningful existence, but a tiring one. When they died, they became one with the Planet, and at last they were allowed to rest."
"And now it's time for you to rest, my friend," said the doctor gently, as he slid the needle under Hargo's skin with such skill that Hargo didn't even feel the pinch. He injected just enough nembutal into the old man's veins to ensure he would remain unconscious for at least twelve hours. Elder Hargo's eyes began to flutter. The doctor helped him to a bed and made him comfortable. Within moments, Hargo was fast asleep, dreaming of stars and starfish.
"Never mind, never mind." Elder Hargo looked around. "Oh, pretty fish. Are we in an aquarium?"
"Apparently this is the lost City of the Ancients. We've gathered to do battle."
"Ah, you don't say. How exciting. Are you a warrior?"
"I'm a doctor, and I'd like to get a move on. I have a house call booked at six."
"I used to know a doctor," said Elder Hargo dreamily. "His name was Gast. Doesn't that sound a bit like ghost? He came to Cosmo Canyon to study planet life. He was interested in the Ancients. Are you interested in the Ancients?"
"Not particularly."
"I collect legends of the Ancients. I study their ways."
"Then you must be fascinated to be here."
"Why, where are we? Oh, look, a fish. Are we in an aquarium?"
"Yes," said the doctor, opening his bag.
"I visited an aquarium once. No, not an aquarium. I went to the sea-side. You can see star fish in the rock pools, did you know that?"
"Really?" said the doctor, pulling the wrapper off a sterile hypodermic and affixing it to a syringe.
"Must we fight?" asked the old man querously. "I don't like fighting. I don't know how to fight. Even when I was a lad I didn't enjoy the roughhousing. I like to sit around the Candle, counting the stars and telling stories."
"And you soon will again," said the doctor, as he drew fluid into the syringe from a small glass vial.
"I hope that's homeopathic," said Elder Hargo. "My body is a temple."
"Tell me about the Ancients." The doctor peered over his glasses to check the dose.
"They wandered the Planet, cultivating life to enhance the lifestream. They were constantly on the move to wherever they were needed. It was a meaningful existence, but a tiring one. When they died, they became one with the Planet, and at last they were allowed to rest."
"And now it's time for you to rest, my friend," said the doctor gently, as he slid the needle under Hargo's skin with such skill that Hargo didn't even feel the pinch. He injected just enough nembutal into the old man's veins to ensure he would remain unconscious for at least twelve hours. Elder Hargo's eyes began to flutter. The doctor helped him to a bed and made him comfortable. Within moments, Hargo was fast asleep, dreaming of stars and starfish.
Mother
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- B
...And then The Doctor wakes up from this dream, finding himself still stuck inside the fish in a womb-like state of sensory numbness.
Elder Hargo had not used this power against The Gi as, at the time, he was not yet 100% confident in his abilities. How do you know he did not use this power to aid the lifestream in its success during Meteorfall? He had, and without his help, it may not have gone so smoothly! Furthermore, within the Forgotten City he is empowered by the close presence of the spirit of the Ancients.