FFVII CHARACTER SMACKDOWN - The Neutrals Championship

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
Elder Harge may be of old age but what are we expecting of the Scientist at that stage? I don’t want a doctor (yes the ONLY doctor) performing surgery on me because he refuses to retire but he can’t remember where my spleen is.
 
Luckily the doctor isn't old yet... but even if he were, he's still got better weapons than Hargo, and if taking Hargo's spleen out is the only way to win - well, you don't get through medical school by being squeamish.
 

Ergo

Sugar Honey Ice & Tea
AKA
Ergo, V
Because he's old as fuck which means his reaction speed is slower, his joints don't work as they used to and Alzheimer's is a very strong possibility. Whereas our doctor is younger and can take advantage of the old coots ailments to win in any sort of battle :monster:
 
Let's be clear. We have no evidence that anyone aside from Nanaki's parents died fighting the Gi. It would be less of a stretch to assume that they died because they were fighting alone than to assume that Nanaki's mother had Canyonmen fighting with her when Seto was fighting alone. It would also be rather sexist, when we all know that the female of the species is deadlier than the male. S
And which of us already attempted to completely erase her role in the battle entirely? Textbook erasure of women from history, I tells ya!

Seto was fighting alone because it was a secret cave. Nanaki has dialogue indicating that he not only abandoned his mother, but the others of the canyon. Having forgotten about Nanaki's mother's battle, how can we believe your continued attempt at erasure of culture?

Not only that, you are sexistly assuming all the fighters with Nanaki's mother were male. We don't know that.

The doctor stayed behind, to make sure everyone got out safely, and was crushed in the collapse of his clinic.
He's alive if you go back to the town later on (completely stunned at Cloud's recovery, so it wasn't part of any plan.) He abandoned his patient at the first sign of trouble.

"Yah!" screamed the doctor, throwing the bottle of cloroform at his victim. It hit the ground near Hargo's foot. Hargo looked down at it, then back to the doctor.

"How the hell did you get through med school?"

"I specialised in lifestream related injuries."

"Ah. Rare maladies. Have you ever cured anyone?"

"I mostly just leave it to the relatives, seems to work out."

"Interesting...well then, a lesson." Hargo nudged the bottle of chloroform back towards the Doctor, who stepped aside. as it rolled down the sloping floor and out the door.

Hargo spread his hands. "Chloroform might have worked given ten minutes and poor ventilation, but had you studied this place, you would be aware that the Cetra settlements do not have doors. What else have you got?"

The Doctor drew a scalpel from a case on his back. "I'm warning you... I need to actually learn something about the lifestream or I'm losing my license, don't test me!"

"Ah. Scientist. I've known your type, defiling the knowledge of the Cetra rather than treating it with respect." Hargo narrowed his eyes. "We've dealt with biology and interior design, now let's move on to history.

"Some years ago, the Gi tribe invaded my home. I was in my prime then , of course, so I answered the call to arms. Our town guardian led the charge, but each of us had to kill many times our numbers. But the Canyon yet stands. Ah, such a day. I still dream about it."

The Doctor stepped closer with his scalpel.

Hargo continued talking. "With our guardians dead and the survivor yet immature, it fell to the humans to defend the canyons in the intervening years. So we kept our weapons and skills sharp, against the day that we might again be called upon to defend our lives and the planet."

"Does this lecture have a point?"

"A point. Sorry, I do ramble a bit."

"Not at all. Time is of the essence, like fine wine." The Doctor edged closer. The problem with medical equipment was that it was usually designed to be used on a compliant, unconscious or bound opponent. He needed to get close.

Hargo smiled. "So, to my point... where did I put it?" He reached into the fronds of seaweed and pulled out a fully functional Butterfly Edge from Tiger Lily Arms, with it's well maintained point and edges. "Oh, here it is."
The Doctor rounded the curve of the room and found himself facing Hargo down the point of a weapon actually designed for killing resisting opponents, rather than those drugged or restrained.

The Doctor tried to run, but slipped on the unfamiliar curving floor, scalpel slipping from his grasp with no nurse nearby to hand him another one.

Hargo advanced, sword ready. "You needn't be frightened. All things return to the Planet in their due time."
 
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He's still alive because he's such an amazing doctor he was able to cure himself.

He did not abandon his patient at the first sign of trouble, as I've already shown.

Semantics. Obviously Canyonmen includes women, it's simply a less clumsy way of saying Canyonpeople, which sounds like a Playmobile set. Theirs is a serious and ancient culture, not a toy for your amusement.
 
Then whence come the accusations of sexism? Seto fought alone because the cave was secret, not because he was stronger.

I submit to the panel of judges that given the many errors of fact in the arguments of our opposition, their accounts of the canyon cannot be trusted, and they either do not have the game to hand or have better things to do than extensive research in order to win an argument on a forum over a video game. In either case, how can such people be trusted in such a serious matter?

Said errors:

1. Considering chloroform an immediately effective anaesthetic.

2. Heinously erasing the contribution of Nanaki's mother to the defeat of the Gi. Having overlooked this, how can we trust their assertion that Elder Hargo was not in combat that day? He is certainly old enough, and this was clearly an 'all hands on deck' situation.

3. Assertion that Tiger Lily Arms sells only replicas, when the party can clearly buy functional weapons at the same establishment.

4. Assertion that the doctor was valiantly crushed in his office, denying his later reappearance and amazement at Cloud's recovery indicating that he had no role in Cloud's recovery.
 

Ergo

Sugar Honey Ice & Tea
AKA
Ergo, V
If were talking about ludicrous claims why don't we go tit for tat.

* The claim the elder is a battle hardened hero of Cosmo canyon despite numerous references to only two actual warriors fighting off the gi tribe

* The claim the elder must be strong due to Cosmo canyons climate being hard to live in. Where in fact we know from history that the young would have taken over hunting etc in their elders place e.g guy on the gate being the only armed person in Cosmo canyon

* The fact at one point the elder was in fact captain planet and summoned the ancients despite habing the same level of knowledge about this ancient race as a stamp collector does to the monarchy of which is printed.

Instead let's talk facts.

The doctor has access to medical grade drugs and tools whereas the elder has access to books. The only scenario on which this goes in the elders favour is if our doctor willingly lies down on the floor and allows the elder to commit death by a thousand paper cuts.

As this is extremely unlikely I think we can all agree that the doctor is in fact that correct choice regardless of the locale. He can implement traps, create poisons and even rig defibrillators up in a way that elder would die instantaneously with the slightest touch.
 
AKA
Fancy

PUT THOSE KEYBOARDS AWAY! IT’S OVER!

This marks the end of round 1-3!

Spectators (and the audience!*) have 24 hours to cast their votes (either by posting in this thread or messaging me privately) for the champion that they have been swayed to stand behind. Our esteemed spectators this round are...



Fancy
Joe
solo player sab

At this time, spectators and audience members are allowed to post their thoughts on the match. Players are NOT ALLOWED to counter any of these comments with new arguments or to continue ‘battling’ in general. Any attempt to do so will count as an automatic loss for your team. Players are free, however, to pay compliments to your opponents and such. ^^

Players!

If you’d like to opt out of participating in the next round, tell me so now.. Otherwise, I’m going to assume you’re still playing and you’re going to be reshuffled into a new team.

In General

If anyone (players, spectators, audience, anyone) has any feedback, questions, or concerns regarding the rules, please post that in the master thread here. It’ll be easier for me to keep track of/find your feedback this way for future reference. Thank you!

Any non-participant who’d like to be shuffled into a team, please say so now.




 
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AKA
Sab
WHEW!!!

Amazing job, teams! I am SUPER impressed! It was like a tennis match with endless volleying! I'm sweating!!!

I'm not quite as methodical as Joe, but I'm taking time with each post and weighing my decision on the following criteria: 1) logic, 2) creativity, and 3) comedic/entertainment value :awesome:

I also appreciate team cohesion so brownie points for the instances where team members are able to build off each other! I also appreciate arguments that stay true to the prompt.

Gonna read these over again...this decision will not be easy :wacky:
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
Likeways Lic, as always you are an admirable opponent. I tip my moose hat to you.

So Obsidian, what was that point we all missed? I so badly want to know now that it’s over :monster:
 
AKA
The Engineer
Okay... so this ventures into headcannon territory, but we kinda passed that point a long time ago.

The Doctor at Mideel has always stood out to me because he knows exactly what is wrong with Cloud (Mako Poisoning) and has some point of reference for what normal or average mako poisoning looks like (he says Cloud has an advanced case of Mako Poisoning). He even has the correct definition for it (exposed to Mako energy for a long period of time) and knows what is really happening when Mako Poisoning happens (bunch of knowledge forced into someone's brain at once).

My question is... where did he learn all of this? It's not like this is common knowledge. The only people we've seen who know this much about Mako in general is Hojo and Bugenhagen (and maybe Gast and Ilfana) all of whom have ties to Shin-Ra's science department. The Mako Poisoning knowledge has really bothered me from a world-building standpoint as I can't think of any good reason your average doctor would encounter it when the amount of mako needed to cause it is pretty ridiculous. We never see Mako Poisoning happen on accident except when Cloud falls into the Northern Crater. All other instances of it are caused by purposeful experimentation.

I was just really surprised that his knowledge of mako wasn't brought up as we know he knows it, but Cosmo Canyon also knows similar things (from a completely different view-point). It wouldn't have been that far fetched for both him and the Cosmo Canyon Elder to realize the location they were in has a lot of mako energy in it and start arguing over it.
 
Nice thinking!

Now that you're making me think about it, it seems I've been assuming he knew about mako poisoning because the Lifestream ran close to the surface in Mideel and kids were always falling into it.
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
Okay... so this ventures into headcannon territory, but we kinda passed that point a long time ago.

The Doctor at Mideel has always stood out to me because he knows exactly what is wrong with Cloud (Mako Poisoning) and has some point of reference for what normal or average mako poisoning looks like (he says Cloud has an advanced case of Mako Poisoning). He even has the correct definition for it (exposed to Mako energy for a long period of time) and knows what is really happening when Mako Poisoning happens (bunch of knowledge forced into someone's brain at once).

My question is... where did he learn all of this? It's not like this is common knowledge. The only people we've seen who know this much about Mako in general is Hojo and Bugenhagen (and maybe Gast and Ilfana) all of whom have ties to Shin-Ra's science department. The Mako Poisoning knowledge has really bothered me from a world-building standpoint as I can't think of any good reason your average doctor would encounter it when the amount of mako needed to cause it is pretty ridiculous. We never see Mako Poisoning happen on accident except when Cloud falls into the Northern Crater. All other instances of it are caused by purposeful experimentation.

I was just really surprised that his knowledge of mako wasn't brought up as we know he knows it, but Cosmo Canyon also knows similar things (from a completely different view-point). It wouldn't have been that far fetched for both him and the Cosmo Canyon Elder to realize the location they were in has a lot of mako energy in it and start arguing over it.
To reiterate what I said in my statement, when you go to Kalm on Disc 2 you get referred too Mideel to see a doctor who knows a lot about the Lifestream. So I really feel the implication is that he primarily deals with Mako poisoning contracted in the wild and not in Shin-Ra facilities.
 
AKA
The Engineer
There's probably a bunch of different ways it could go. I was just surprised that the Mideel Doctor's accurate knowledge of mako/the Lifestream was not brought up in the Smack Down at all when it's one of the few canon things we know about him.

There's still the question of why he knows it's specifically Mako Poisoning. I'd just think that if it's something common that happens in Mideel then they would have known it was happening for a long time. It's also a bit of a jump to go from "that green stuff that comes out of the ocean that can cause memory loss maybe" to "that stuff Shin-Ra refines for fuel and does who knows what with". It's not like Shin-Ra advertises Mako Poisoning, etc.

The Quote in Kalm is this:
Huh? You're looking for your friend? You want to know where the Lifestream is?
Let's see, I can't help you with your friend, but I've heard about the Lifestream.
When I traveled to the southern islands, a doctor was very kind to me. I seem to recall him telling me something about the Lifestream......
It seems like it's the Lifestream people knows the doctor knows about. Not that the Lifestream comes out at Mideel. Which makes sense. If "everyone" knows that the Lifestream/mako comes out at Mideel why isn't Shin-Ra racing to get there? It's the perfect spot to stick a reactor, it's not like Shin-Ra would care about the town.

After the party gets together in the Highwind, the person who knows the Lifestream gushes out of the ocean in places is Nanaki. He says Seto told the island is to the south, but he doesn't know exactly where it is. So you have to go looking for it.
 
AKA
Fancy
The spectators have spectated and the audience have voted.





VICTORY GOES TO TEAM CHOCOBO


✧・゚: *✧・゚:*Licorice Allsorts*:・゚✧*:・゚✧

With a special mention to Ergo Proxy


One of my personal favourite moments was when the battle went full on fanfiction LOL
Spikes
Symbols of your sacrifice
Your son, left behind
He loved pork rinds

Lol! If it hadn’t turned fanfiction, we may never have been given this
“I hope that’s homoeopathic," said Elder Hargo. "My body is a temple.”

  1. BforB
  2. Channy
  3. Clement Rage
  4. Ergo Proxy
  5. Fancy (will spectate if neccesary)
  6. Joe - spectating (when he gets the time)
  7. InterfaceLeader (on weekends)
  8. LicoriceAllsorts
  9. Minato
  10. solo player sab - spectating

Let me know if anyone has a problem with this list and look forward to the next post coming up in a few hours!
 
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AKA
Fancy
Battle Post - ROUND 1-4

Weather is looking a bit scurry so I'd rather post now whilst I have electricity. :wacky:

Round 1-4

Your Teams...



LicoriceAllsorts
Channy
Minato




Clement Rage
Ergo Proxy
BforB


Your Champions...


VS



The Location...


Godo’s House

Chloe - Granddaughter of Choco Bill who can tell which chocobos are the fastest, smartest, and have the most stamina after an inspection…
Are you ready Team Chocobo?


Gillian Hewley - Original host of Project G and mum to First Class SOLDIER Angeal Hewley…
Are you ready Team Moogle?


___________________

The countdown begins when the first team player posts!
 
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