LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
That 'it was all just a dream' trope is getting a bit tired, isn't it?
Anyway, good to know Aerith had a back-up in Elder Hargo.
Anyway, good to know Aerith had a back-up in Elder Hargo.
FFVII CHARACTER SMACKDOWN - The Neutrals Championship
- Thread starter fancy
- Start date
Mother
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- B
Such a trope that I regularly wake up from dreams I think are reality
. I understand how The Doctor must feel. Except I'm not stuck inside a mystic fish with no way of escape, of course.Let the record show that LicoriceAllsorts of Team Chocobo secedes to Elder Hargo's greatness!
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
You're in a dream right now, BforB, a dream you're mistaking for reality: a dream in which the doddery Elder Hargo has mysteriously acquired improbable magical powers; a dream in which our good Doctor is only dreaming of victory; a dream in which you dream that only in his dreams can he win. Wake up! Open your eyes! Acknowledge the superiority of Team Chocobo's candidate!
Mother
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- B
I think it is you who is dreaming that we're dreaming that Elder Hargo is dreaming of his victory. Conversely, it is The Doctor that is hallucinating under the influence of the mystic fish and its sensory depriving chasms.
Before. This is the prequel, babe
Before. This is the prequel, babe
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Nah, you're just dreaming that I'm dreaming that you're dreaming. And in this dream of yours, I'm dreaming that you're dreaming that I'm dreaming that you're dreaming. Elder Hargo's right there with us in your dream because myths and dreams are his natural habitat, unlike the good Doctor, who is a practical man of science, and knows that dreams are the consequences of eating too much cheese before bedtime.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Right, so: Elder Hargo, doddery old dear, few bricks short of a load, is a bit forgetful in his old age, comes to this fight armed with some fairy stories and a replica weapon from the Tiger Lily Shop - versus - the good Doctor of Mideel, man of science, in his prime, armed with hypodermics, scalpels, syringes, bone saws, speculum and a full knowledge of human anatomy.
Look, even if we took away all their other attributes and it came down to a good old fashioned fist fight, the Doctor is inevitably going to win because he's young and stronger. Sure, Hargo might have been quite the bar-room brawler in his prime (though I doubt it), but those days are gone. Long, long gone. He's probably got osteoporosis.
Look, even if we took away all their other attributes and it came down to a good old fashioned fist fight, the Doctor is inevitably going to win because he's young and stronger. Sure, Hargo might have been quite the bar-room brawler in his prime (though I doubt it), but those days are gone. Long, long gone. He's probably got osteoporosis.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Luckily the doctor isn't old yet... but even if he were, he's still got better weapons than Hargo, and if taking Hargo's spleen out is the only way to win - well, you don't get through medical school by being squeamish.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
And which of us already attempted to completely erase her role in the battle entirely? Textbook erasure of women from history, I tells ya!
Seto was fighting alone because it was a secret cave. Nanaki has dialogue indicating that he not only abandoned his mother, but the others of the canyon. Having forgotten about Nanaki's mother's battle, how can we believe your continued attempt at erasure of culture?
Not only that, you are sexistly assuming all the fighters with Nanaki's mother were male. We don't know that.
He's alive if you go back to the town later on (completely stunned at Cloud's recovery, so it wasn't part of any plan.) He abandoned his patient at the first sign of trouble.
"Yah!" screamed the doctor, throwing the bottle of cloroform at his victim. It hit the ground near Hargo's foot. Hargo looked down at it, then back to the doctor.
"How the hell did you get through med school?"
"I specialised in lifestream related injuries."
"Ah. Rare maladies. Have you ever cured anyone?"
"I mostly just leave it to the relatives, seems to work out."
"Interesting...well then, a lesson." Hargo nudged the bottle of chloroform back towards the Doctor, who stepped aside. as it rolled down the sloping floor and out the door.
Hargo spread his hands. "Chloroform might have worked given ten minutes and poor ventilation, but had you studied this place, you would be aware that the Cetra settlements do not have doors. What else have you got?"
The Doctor drew a scalpel from a case on his back. "I'm warning you... I need to actually learn something about the lifestream or I'm losing my license, don't test me!"
"Ah. Scientist. I've known your type, defiling the knowledge of the Cetra rather than treating it with respect." Hargo narrowed his eyes. "We've dealt with biology and interior design, now let's move on to history.
"Some years ago, the Gi tribe invaded my home. I was in my prime then , of course, so I answered the call to arms. Our town guardian led the charge, but each of us had to kill many times our numbers. But the Canyon yet stands. Ah, such a day. I still dream about it."
The Doctor stepped closer with his scalpel.
Hargo continued talking. "With our guardians dead and the survivor yet immature, it fell to the humans to defend the canyons in the intervening years. So we kept our weapons and skills sharp, against the day that we might again be called upon to defend our lives and the planet."
"Does this lecture have a point?"
"A point. Sorry, I do ramble a bit."
"Not at all. Time is of the essence, like fine wine." The Doctor edged closer. The problem with medical equipment was that it was usually designed to be used on a compliant, unconscious or bound opponent. He needed to get close.
Hargo smiled. "So, to my point... where did I put it?" He reached into the fronds of seaweed and pulled out a fully functional Butterfly Edge from Tiger Lily Arms, with it's well maintained point and edges. "Oh, here it is."
The Doctor rounded the curve of the room and found himself facing Hargo down the point of a weapon actually designed for killing resisting opponents, rather than those drugged or restrained.
The Doctor tried to run, but slipped on the unfamiliar curving floor, scalpel slipping from his grasp with no nurse nearby to hand him another one.
Hargo advanced, sword ready. "You needn't be frightened. All things return to the Planet in their due time."
"How the hell did you get through med school?"
"I specialised in lifestream related injuries."
"Ah. Rare maladies. Have you ever cured anyone?"
"I mostly just leave it to the relatives, seems to work out."
"Interesting...well then, a lesson." Hargo nudged the bottle of chloroform back towards the Doctor, who stepped aside. as it rolled down the sloping floor and out the door.
Hargo spread his hands. "Chloroform might have worked given ten minutes and poor ventilation, but had you studied this place, you would be aware that the Cetra settlements do not have doors. What else have you got?"
The Doctor drew a scalpel from a case on his back. "I'm warning you... I need to actually learn something about the lifestream or I'm losing my license, don't test me!"
"Ah. Scientist. I've known your type, defiling the knowledge of the Cetra rather than treating it with respect." Hargo narrowed his eyes. "We've dealt with biology and interior design, now let's move on to history.
"Some years ago, the Gi tribe invaded my home. I was in my prime then , of course, so I answered the call to arms. Our town guardian led the charge, but each of us had to kill many times our numbers. But the Canyon yet stands. Ah, such a day. I still dream about it."
The Doctor stepped closer with his scalpel.
Hargo continued talking. "With our guardians dead and the survivor yet immature, it fell to the humans to defend the canyons in the intervening years. So we kept our weapons and skills sharp, against the day that we might again be called upon to defend our lives and the planet."
"Does this lecture have a point?"
"A point. Sorry, I do ramble a bit."
"Not at all. Time is of the essence, like fine wine." The Doctor edged closer. The problem with medical equipment was that it was usually designed to be used on a compliant, unconscious or bound opponent. He needed to get close.
Hargo smiled. "So, to my point... where did I put it?" He reached into the fronds of seaweed and pulled out a fully functional Butterfly Edge from Tiger Lily Arms, with it's well maintained point and edges. "Oh, here it is."
The Doctor rounded the curve of the room and found himself facing Hargo down the point of a weapon actually designed for killing resisting opponents, rather than those drugged or restrained.
The Doctor tried to run, but slipped on the unfamiliar curving floor, scalpel slipping from his grasp with no nurse nearby to hand him another one.
Hargo advanced, sword ready. "You needn't be frightened. All things return to the Planet in their due time."
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LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
He's still alive because he's such an amazing doctor he was able to cure himself.
He did not abandon his patient at the first sign of trouble, as I've already shown.
Semantics. Obviously Canyonmen includes women, it's simply a less clumsy way of saying Canyonpeople, which sounds like a Playmobile set. Theirs is a serious and ancient culture, not a toy for your amusement.
He did not abandon his patient at the first sign of trouble, as I've already shown.
Semantics. Obviously Canyonmen includes women, it's simply a less clumsy way of saying Canyonpeople, which sounds like a Playmobile set. Theirs is a serious and ancient culture, not a toy for your amusement.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Then whence come the accusations of sexism? Seto fought alone because the cave was secret, not because he was stronger.
I submit to the panel of judges that given the many errors of fact in the arguments of our opposition, their accounts of the canyon cannot be trusted, and they either do not have the game to hand or have better things to do than extensive research in order to win an argument on a forum over a video game. In either case, how can such people be trusted in such a serious matter?
Said errors:
1. Considering chloroform an immediately effective anaesthetic.
2. Heinously erasing the contribution of Nanaki's mother to the defeat of the Gi. Having overlooked this, how can we trust their assertion that Elder Hargo was not in combat that day? He is certainly old enough, and this was clearly an 'all hands on deck' situation.
3. Assertion that Tiger Lily Arms sells only replicas, when the party can clearly buy functional weapons at the same establishment.
4. Assertion that the doctor was valiantly crushed in his office, denying his later reappearance and amazement at Cloud's recovery indicating that he had no role in Cloud's recovery.
I submit to the panel of judges that given the many errors of fact in the arguments of our opposition, their accounts of the canyon cannot be trusted, and they either do not have the game to hand or have better things to do than extensive research in order to win an argument on a forum over a video game. In either case, how can such people be trusted in such a serious matter?
Said errors:
1. Considering chloroform an immediately effective anaesthetic.
2. Heinously erasing the contribution of Nanaki's mother to the defeat of the Gi. Having overlooked this, how can we trust their assertion that Elder Hargo was not in combat that day? He is certainly old enough, and this was clearly an 'all hands on deck' situation.
3. Assertion that Tiger Lily Arms sells only replicas, when the party can clearly buy functional weapons at the same establishment.
4. Assertion that the doctor was valiantly crushed in his office, denying his later reappearance and amazement at Cloud's recovery indicating that he had no role in Cloud's recovery.
fancy
pants
- AKA
- Fancy
PUT THOSE KEYBOARDS AWAY! IT’S OVER!
This marks the end of round 1-3!
Spectators (and the audience!*) have 24 hours to cast their votes (either by posting in this thread or messaging me privately) for the champion that they have been swayed to stand behind. Our esteemed spectators this round are...
Fancy
Joe
solo player sab
At this time, spectators and audience members are allowed to post their thoughts on the match. Players are NOT ALLOWED to counter any of these comments with new arguments or to continue ‘battling’ in general. Any attempt to do so will count as an automatic loss for your team. Players are free, however, to pay compliments to your opponents and such. ^^
Players!
If you’d like to opt out of participating in the next round, tell me so now.. Otherwise, I’m going to assume you’re still playing and you’re going to be reshuffled into a new team.
In General
If anyone (players, spectators, audience, anyone) has any feedback, questions, or concerns regarding the rules, please post that in the master thread here. It’ll be easier for me to keep track of/find your feedback this way for future reference. Thank you!
Any non-participant who’d like to be shuffled into a team, please say so now.
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LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I would like to salute the ingenuity of my opponents. Their arguments were truly creative.
solo player sab
normie trash
- AKA
- Sab
WHEW!!!
Amazing job, teams! I am SUPER impressed! It was like a tennis match with endless volleying! I'm sweating!!!
I'm not quite as methodical as Joe, but I'm taking time with each post and weighing my decision on the following criteria: 1) logic, 2) creativity, and 3) comedic/entertainment value
I also appreciate team cohesion so brownie points for the instances where team members are able to build off each other! I also appreciate arguments that stay true to the prompt.
Gonna read these over again...this decision will not be easy
Amazing job, teams! I am SUPER impressed! It was like a tennis match with endless volleying! I'm sweating!!!
I'm not quite as methodical as Joe, but I'm taking time with each post and weighing my decision on the following criteria: 1) logic, 2) creativity, and 3) comedic/entertainment value
I also appreciate team cohesion so brownie points for the instances where team members are able to build off each other! I also appreciate arguments that stay true to the prompt.
Gonna read these over again...this decision will not be easy
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
Okay... so this ventures into headcannon territory, but we kinda passed that point a long time ago.
The Doctor at Mideel has always stood out to me because he knows exactly what is wrong with Cloud (Mako Poisoning) and has some point of reference for what normal or average mako poisoning looks like (he says Cloud has an advanced case of Mako Poisoning). He even has the correct definition for it (exposed to Mako energy for a long period of time) and knows what is really happening when Mako Poisoning happens (bunch of knowledge forced into someone's brain at once).
My question is... where did he learn all of this? It's not like this is common knowledge. The only people we've seen who know this much about Mako in general is Hojo and Bugenhagen (and maybe Gast and Ilfana) all of whom have ties to Shin-Ra's science department. The Mako Poisoning knowledge has really bothered me from a world-building standpoint as I can't think of any good reason your average doctor would encounter it when the amount of mako needed to cause it is pretty ridiculous. We never see Mako Poisoning happen on accident except when Cloud falls into the Northern Crater. All other instances of it are caused by purposeful experimentation.
I was just really surprised that his knowledge of mako wasn't brought up as we know he knows it, but Cosmo Canyon also knows similar things (from a completely different view-point). It wouldn't have been that far fetched for both him and the Cosmo Canyon Elder to realize the location they were in has a lot of mako energy in it and start arguing over it.
The Doctor at Mideel has always stood out to me because he knows exactly what is wrong with Cloud (Mako Poisoning) and has some point of reference for what normal or average mako poisoning looks like (he says Cloud has an advanced case of Mako Poisoning). He even has the correct definition for it (exposed to Mako energy for a long period of time) and knows what is really happening when Mako Poisoning happens (bunch of knowledge forced into someone's brain at once).
My question is... where did he learn all of this? It's not like this is common knowledge. The only people we've seen who know this much about Mako in general is Hojo and Bugenhagen (and maybe Gast and Ilfana) all of whom have ties to Shin-Ra's science department. The Mako Poisoning knowledge has really bothered me from a world-building standpoint as I can't think of any good reason your average doctor would encounter it when the amount of mako needed to cause it is pretty ridiculous. We never see Mako Poisoning happen on accident except when Cloud falls into the Northern Crater. All other instances of it are caused by purposeful experimentation.
I was just really surprised that his knowledge of mako wasn't brought up as we know he knows it, but Cosmo Canyon also knows similar things (from a completely different view-point). It wouldn't have been that far fetched for both him and the Cosmo Canyon Elder to realize the location they were in has a lot of mako energy in it and start arguing over it.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Nice thinking!
Now that you're making me think about it, it seems I've been assuming he knew about mako poisoning because the Lifestream ran close to the surface in Mideel and kids were always falling into it.
Now that you're making me think about it, it seems I've been assuming he knew about mako poisoning because the Lifestream ran close to the surface in Mideel and kids were always falling into it.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
To reiterate what I said in my statement, when you go to Kalm on Disc 2 you get referred too Mideel to see a doctor who knows a lot about the Lifestream. So I really feel the implication is that he primarily deals with Mako poisoning contracted in the wild and not in Shin-Ra facilities.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
There's probably a bunch of different ways it could go. I was just surprised that the Mideel Doctor's accurate knowledge of mako/the Lifestream was not brought up in the Smack Down at all when it's one of the few canon things we know about him.
There's still the question of why he knows it's specifically Mako Poisoning. I'd just think that if it's something common that happens in Mideel then they would have known it was happening for a long time. It's also a bit of a jump to go from "that green stuff that comes out of the ocean that can cause memory loss maybe" to "that stuff Shin-Ra refines for fuel and does who knows what with". It's not like Shin-Ra advertises Mako Poisoning, etc.
The Quote in Kalm is this:
After the party gets together in the Highwind, the person who knows the Lifestream gushes out of the ocean in places is Nanaki. He says Seto told the island is to the south, but he doesn't know exactly where it is. So you have to go looking for it.
There's still the question of why he knows it's specifically Mako Poisoning. I'd just think that if it's something common that happens in Mideel then they would have known it was happening for a long time. It's also a bit of a jump to go from "that green stuff that comes out of the ocean that can cause memory loss maybe" to "that stuff Shin-Ra refines for fuel and does who knows what with". It's not like Shin-Ra advertises Mako Poisoning, etc.
The Quote in Kalm is this:
It seems like it's the Lifestream people knows the doctor knows about. Not that the Lifestream comes out at Mideel. Which makes sense. If "everyone" knows that the Lifestream/mako comes out at Mideel why isn't Shin-Ra racing to get there? It's the perfect spot to stick a reactor, it's not like Shin-Ra would care about the town.
After the party gets together in the Highwind, the person who knows the Lifestream gushes out of the ocean in places is Nanaki. He says Seto told the island is to the south, but he doesn't know exactly where it is. So you have to go looking for it.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
I just assumed he was Midgar trained, and Mako poisoning was something you could get from leaking pipes and stuff.
fancy
pants
- AKA
- Fancy
The spectators have spectated and the audience have voted.
VICTORY GOES TO TEAM CHOCOBO
One of my personal favourite moments was when the battle went full on fanfiction LOL
Lol! If it hadn’t turned fanfiction, we may never have been given this
Let me know if anyone has a problem with this list and look forward to the next post coming up in a few hours!
VICTORY GOES TO TEAM CHOCOBO
✧･ﾟ: *✧･ﾟ:*Licorice Allsorts*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧
With a special mention to Ergo Proxy
With a special mention to Ergo Proxy
One of my personal favourite moments was when the battle went full on fanfiction LOL
Lol! If it hadn’t turned fanfiction, we may never have been given this
- BforB
- Channy
- Clement Rage
- Ergo Proxy
- Fancy (will spectate if neccesary)
- Joe - spectating (when he gets the time)
- InterfaceLeader (on weekends)
- LicoriceAllsorts
- Minato
- solo player sab - spectating
Let me know if anyone has a problem with this list and look forward to the next post coming up in a few hours!
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