SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 16 Spoiler Discussion
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
It just never crossed my mind that B = basement. I have lived in a French speaking country for too long. I wonder if General Affairs: Auditing, is the new name for the Department of Administrative Research. I always thought their official name was so bland that it must have been specifically designed as a cover name - although if any company could get away with having a Department of Assassinations and Kidnapping, it would be Shinra.
Rydeen
In-KWEH-dible
I recall both General Affairs and Administrative Research being used. And yes, it being a shady cover name was always my impression too.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
I think that's why they added Mayor Domino as a collaborator, to help with the suspension of disbelief.
Also IIRC I think the broadcast footage clip they used in Chapter 7 on repeat was footage of Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie (with Barret briefly shown) from the Reactor 1 raid when they are cutting through the wire fence. No Tifa or Cloud in the clip.
lithiumkatana17
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Lith
Not sure if anyone's interested, but I'm dropping a link anyway.
I decided to record the scene with Cloud hallucinating at the end of Chapter 16 without any music; because even though the music itself slaps hard, I could barely hear the dialogue in the background.
There's nothing mindblowing revealed--it's just nice to hear what's being said without it being drowned out. I've posted it in my google drive.
No, there are n00dz for you there to scavenge.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18wTIw2XuoyhMbuJylbfYyVANX9FbinG7/view?usp=sharing
I decided to record the scene with Cloud hallucinating at the end of Chapter 16 without any music; because even though the music itself slaps hard, I could barely hear the dialogue in the background.
There's nothing mindblowing revealed--it's just nice to hear what's being said without it being drowned out. I've posted it in my google drive.
No, there are n00dz for you there to scavenge.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18wTIw2XuoyhMbuJylbfYyVANX9FbinG7/view?usp=sharing
Nanaki Skywalker
Kate Lord of the Sith
- AKA
- Tarkatan Trash
"Another day, another struggle. Climing stairs is so much trouble."
-Barret
-Barret
Glaurung
Forgot the cutesy in my other pants. Sorry.
- AKA
- Mama Dragon
Ok, since I watched the last chapters in one sitting yesterday (long sunday of confinement + migraines triggered by storms around us= I need something to evade), they jumble together a bit, but here I come:
- The museum was awesome, though I will have to find a gameplay where the player looks at it with a bit more of detail.
- The voiceover was Mog, I'm sure of it. I half expected to hear Kupo at the end of each sentence.
- The propaganda was stomach-churning realistic.
- The stairs!!!! I love what they made with the music. And Barret.
- Mayor domino. Expanding his role was an excellent idea.
- The notion that the Cetra lived in a Cornelia-like country.
- The vision of the Meteor and Sephiroth taunting Cloud with killing all his friends.
- A grunt renognizing Cloud and mentioning Kunsel, YEAH!
- Reeve is the only decent guy on the board and, as expected, he surrounds himself by decent people. Just look at his assistant and then at the team under his command.
- Aerith's room, which is pretty much what I expected: little more than a storage room with some furniture.
- The change of Nanaki being reduced to a wild beast and then cured by Aerith so that he regained his sense.
- Neo Midgar looking like FFXIII Eden
Last edited:
Nanaki Skywalker
Kate Lord of the Sith
- AKA
- Tarkatan Trash
I have a funny feeling that grunt who knew Cloud will eventually turn on Shinra, as will Kunsel (especially considering the fact that the latter is a mutual friend of Cloud and Aerith via Zack).
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
I didn't get the impression that Aerith "cured" Red of being a wild beast. I thought she just calmed him down via Cetra powers, since he was mad about losing Hojo and didn't know who they were.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Yeah I've seen people saying that she gave him the ability to speak too which...I didn't get at all. I thought she just rapidly communicated that they weren't enemies. "Vulcan Mind Meld" style, as Lic described it.
Glaurung
Forgot the cutesy in my other pants. Sorry.
- AKA
- Mama Dragon
What I understood fromt he whole scene was that Nanaki was under the influence of some chemical which inhibited the "sentient" part of his brain. Maybe a cure spell from her helped him shake away the drugs.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Aerith knows how make people chill. Especially if this fan theory is true?
Nanaki Skywalker
Kate Lord of the Sith
- AKA
- Tarkatan Trash
Notice how this was posted on 420?
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
It's All Connected™
Shademp
420
When Red XIII was all feral and growling I was reminded of two things:
#1: Poor Nanaki has had his eye removed by Hojo and has probably been subjected to all sorts of painful experiments. He may very well also be malnourished and not too keen on being forcefully tattooed.
#2: In Episode Nanaki of On the Way to a Smile, we learn about Nanaki's feral side and how under the right/wrong circumstances he may forget his more "civilized" nature.
Ergo why I liked the choice that he needed some empath-type healing to calm his fight-or-flight response. Though I can definitely see how people unfamiliar with FFVII would assume that Aerith suddenly gave Red the ability to speak.
#1: Poor Nanaki has had his eye removed by Hojo and has probably been subjected to all sorts of painful experiments. He may very well also be malnourished and not too keen on being forcefully tattooed.
#2: In Episode Nanaki of On the Way to a Smile, we learn about Nanaki's feral side and how under the right/wrong circumstances he may forget his more "civilized" nature.
Ergo why I liked the choice that he needed some empath-type healing to calm his fight-or-flight response. Though I can definitely see how people unfamiliar with FFVII would assume that Aerith suddenly gave Red the ability to speak.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
He didn't.
Prism
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- pikpixelart
For all of its added content, Remake recreates the key plot moments very faithfully - even down to recreating some dialogue from the original. These moments, understandably, is when the game truly feels most like VII.
When thinking of Remake before it came out, I was thinking “The stair scene is so 1990s, would modern game designers really add it in?” And sure enough, yet again, they did. It’s another moment where before I was really hoping they’d do it - and it’s back in all of its blissful monotony. The dialogue was just as funny as it was in the original, some of it being line-for-line recreations, as mentioned. (Tifa’s “Why don’t you ask the stairs?” to Barret) Thankfully, some of the dialogue did not come back.
The stairs are a great time to have your pedometer Materia equipped! I got exhausted just looking at them get worn out....
Shinra HQ is a good showcase of how Remake uses its dual contexts to good use (by that, I mean...being made from 90s source material within the context of 2020s society) Shinra HQ is modern, sleek, yet still industrial. They use futuristic modern tech (things people wouldn’t have known of in the 90s) to further emphasize the contrast with the rustic slums. Basically, the slums stays with how tech was depicted in the 90s, while the upper plates get technology based around our own modern ones. It’s interesting how this real-world meta knowledge can strengthen themes within the game.
All of the scenes with Reeve and the Shinra leadership are also very faithful. Good ol’ Reeves, being the only voice in the room with any humanity. Hojo makes my skin crawl in ways that are hard to imagine. It was impressive how Aeris was able to hide her blatant disgust so well. God, that scene was disgusting. Hojo’s facial expressions are so...gruesome. Mako put it well when he said “He looks like Jeff Goldblum after a bender”
Then there was another thing I was wondering how they’d execute...In the original, Hojo’s goal is to mate Red XIII and Aeris. In Remake, it appears he just wants to mate her with a SOLDIER (real SOLDIERS only, sorry Cloud), but his true plan is alluded to. As the party follows his trail while he’s returning to the lab, he exclaims “Oh, of course! Why didn’t I think of that sooner?” And sure enough, Red XIII and Aeris are stored in the same room, implying his plan in the OG dawns on him.
I always felt his original plan would be too vulgar and off-putting when presented with realistic people, but alluding to it is a surprisingly simple way to address that. At least, that’s what I think they’re alluding to.
Chapter 16 is where they’ve started to flesh out the “remixed” elements of the story, but to be honest? None of it contradicts the existing plot line, if anything, it just foreshadows them. The stunning scene of Midgar being destroyed by Meteor was very accurate to the source material, as was the shot of Aeris using Holy. Even if it’s new framing, the contents are still the exact same...And as long as it works within the same content, I’m happy no matter how they end up remixing it. As long as the individual components are accurate. One interesting factor though...Hojo already alluded to Cloud not being a real SOLDIER. I wonder what new players think of this? Either way, the holographic cutscene was lovely. Whenever the game loads a prerendered cutscene, I’m always blown away how good it looks - because a lot of the time I think the game itself looks prerendered, aha. Seeing the Cetra was so beautiful, and seeing Sephiroth interrupt it and kill everyone was... dark, huh? I wonder how new players also interpret this. Because the party members die, I assume they just view it as something meant to mess with Cloud, not something that actually happens (Meteor) I am curious why they added in the character deaths - is depicting the worst case scenario that could happen?
JENOVA was shown in her gruesome glory, with the iconic name plate above her. The scene with Cloud struggling with JENOVA with flashbacks to Nibelheim were very powerful. Being hit with both the Cetra holographic scene and the JENOVA section makes this one of the most powerful chapters in the game.
Gameplay-wise, this chapter was very exhilarating. The enemy designs in the two-staged armored shock trooper were exhilarating to fight. This is the first time in Remake where normal enemies had multiple stages, right? They’re really brutal, but if you exploit their weakness they’re manageable. I got my ass kicked the first time around, but the second time it was a breeze.
Also, I love scale environmental miniatures, so I was very happy to see the Midgar miniature return. Even without its corresponding puzzle.
The dialogue of all the Shinra employees is also good - the day-to-day workers, not the management, I mean. There’s clearly good people working for them without knowledge of the greater context. Barret’s speech overlooking the city about this was beautiful, and another highlight of the chapter.
Does anyone else think Red XIII’s voice is perfect? His wisdom bleeds through his voice acting.
When thinking of Remake before it came out, I was thinking “The stair scene is so 1990s, would modern game designers really add it in?” And sure enough, yet again, they did. It’s another moment where before I was really hoping they’d do it - and it’s back in all of its blissful monotony. The dialogue was just as funny as it was in the original, some of it being line-for-line recreations, as mentioned. (Tifa’s “Why don’t you ask the stairs?” to Barret) Thankfully, some of the dialogue did not come back.
The stairs are a great time to have your pedometer Materia equipped! I got exhausted just looking at them get worn out....
Shinra HQ is a good showcase of how Remake uses its dual contexts to good use (by that, I mean...being made from 90s source material within the context of 2020s society) Shinra HQ is modern, sleek, yet still industrial. They use futuristic modern tech (things people wouldn’t have known of in the 90s) to further emphasize the contrast with the rustic slums. Basically, the slums stays with how tech was depicted in the 90s, while the upper plates get technology based around our own modern ones. It’s interesting how this real-world meta knowledge can strengthen themes within the game.
All of the scenes with Reeve and the Shinra leadership are also very faithful. Good ol’ Reeves, being the only voice in the room with any humanity. Hojo makes my skin crawl in ways that are hard to imagine. It was impressive how Aeris was able to hide her blatant disgust so well. God, that scene was disgusting. Hojo’s facial expressions are so...gruesome. Mako put it well when he said “He looks like Jeff Goldblum after a bender”
Then there was another thing I was wondering how they’d execute...In the original, Hojo’s goal is to mate Red XIII and Aeris. In Remake, it appears he just wants to mate her with a SOLDIER (real SOLDIERS only, sorry Cloud), but his true plan is alluded to. As the party follows his trail while he’s returning to the lab, he exclaims “Oh, of course! Why didn’t I think of that sooner?” And sure enough, Red XIII and Aeris are stored in the same room, implying his plan in the OG dawns on him.
I always felt his original plan would be too vulgar and off-putting when presented with realistic people, but alluding to it is a surprisingly simple way to address that. At least, that’s what I think they’re alluding to.
Chapter 16 is where they’ve started to flesh out the “remixed” elements of the story, but to be honest? None of it contradicts the existing plot line, if anything, it just foreshadows them. The stunning scene of Midgar being destroyed by Meteor was very accurate to the source material, as was the shot of Aeris using Holy. Even if it’s new framing, the contents are still the exact same...And as long as it works within the same content, I’m happy no matter how they end up remixing it. As long as the individual components are accurate. One interesting factor though...Hojo already alluded to Cloud not being a real SOLDIER. I wonder what new players think of this? Either way, the holographic cutscene was lovely. Whenever the game loads a prerendered cutscene, I’m always blown away how good it looks - because a lot of the time I think the game itself looks prerendered, aha. Seeing the Cetra was so beautiful, and seeing Sephiroth interrupt it and kill everyone was... dark, huh? I wonder how new players also interpret this. Because the party members die, I assume they just view it as something meant to mess with Cloud, not something that actually happens (Meteor) I am curious why they added in the character deaths - is depicting the worst case scenario that could happen?
JENOVA was shown in her gruesome glory, with the iconic name plate above her. The scene with Cloud struggling with JENOVA with flashbacks to Nibelheim were very powerful. Being hit with both the Cetra holographic scene and the JENOVA section makes this one of the most powerful chapters in the game.
Gameplay-wise, this chapter was very exhilarating. The enemy designs in the two-staged armored shock trooper were exhilarating to fight. This is the first time in Remake where normal enemies had multiple stages, right? They’re really brutal, but if you exploit their weakness they’re manageable. I got my ass kicked the first time around, but the second time it was a breeze.
Also, I love scale environmental miniatures, so I was very happy to see the Midgar miniature return. Even without its corresponding puzzle.
The dialogue of all the Shinra employees is also good - the day-to-day workers, not the management, I mean. There’s clearly good people working for them without knowledge of the greater context. Barret’s speech overlooking the city about this was beautiful, and another highlight of the chapter.
Does anyone else think Red XIII’s voice is perfect? His wisdom bleeds through his voice acting.
Shademp
420
In the meeting, Hojo talks about using a psychoactive agent to torture Aerith and make her more cooperative. So when you later listen in on Hojo saying (paraphrased) "Maybe this one? Maybe that one? Or maybe I should stop overthinking this" I'm assuming that he's considering different types of drugs to break Aerith's mind. I am convinced they never meant to allude to the beastiality-plan of the original game.
Prism
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- pikpixelart
That’s a very good point. As much as I like accuracy to the original, that plot point is one I wouldn’t particularly miss, to say the least. Hojo’s still fucked up either way.
