SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 17 Spoiler Discussion

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
A la Ardyn in FFXV's Chapter 13?

Holy crap, I don't know if it was that bad.

It hasn't gotten news articles written about how horribly tedious and unfun it was, or a patch to allow it's complete bypassing :monster:

That was a rough spot, easily the lowest point of XV by far.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Holy crap, I don't know if it was that bad.

It hasn't gotten news articles written about how horribly tedious and unfun it was, or a patch to allow it's complete bypassing :monster:

That was a rough spot, easily the lowest point of XV by far.
I think they were just talking about how Ardyn was talking over the PA system in ch 13.

Hojo could've done the same in this chapter
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Oh my bad. I thought it was in reference to the other point :monster:

Cause yeah, the Drum is a bit long, but I didn't feel my soul getting crushed by it, lol
 
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ForceStealer

Double Growth
Interestingly I didn't hate Chapter 13 as much as the rest of the world either, haha. It was too long, but I didn't feel soul-crushing. I was still just jazzed about having the Ring, I think :P The first time I used Banish against the spider daemon I was like "This is awesome"
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
So, we wake up in Aeris' old quarters and hear from Wedge about how HQ is sending a chopper...to the President's private landing pad. I foresee problems with this plan. Apparently they're on board because Wedge asked really really nicely (and somehow wandered into the Shinra building unscathed.)

If Rufus is secretly behind this, I swear...

Although AVALANCHE obviously wouldn't want the last Cetra in Shinra hands, so maybe they're really on board.

So we head through the lab and meet Sephiroth, who talks his usual spiel. It's interesting, because if Aeris knows about the script, then Sephy probably does too, and he would also be on board with changing fate. Are we sure fighting fate is such a good idea?

Anyway, Cloud attacks, and he tosses them all into Hojo's secret dungeon. We find out that Hojo ships Aeriseph and he challenges us to navigate his dungeon.

I'm not really sure why they play along, as there's no particular reason to believe Hojo will actually let them out when they're done, and he has a vested interest in keeping Aeris contained, but we are forced to do a bunch of switch pulling and monster fighting. Other than AVALANCHE awesomeness, I'm not sure what these tests are supposed to achieve, but anyway, they're tough.

It all goes well at first, then my AerTi team dies to a bunch of bloodhounds twice, before I win through. My Cloret team then dies to the teleporting hammer thingies, and then very narrowly survives the Brain Pods, and I believe I lose another AerTi team to Zenenes.

I don't have enough materia to go around, so I have to keep swapping around Aeris and Barret's setups. Eventually, we get to the Swordipede, and my Cloret team wins, but then we switch to AerTi who are not set up for battle properly, and I lose them three separate times before finally getting the hang of things.

For those keeping track, the humiliating death count stands at 13, assuming I haven't lost count.

Eventually Hojo lets us out because he's secretly a shipper, and we head up to the Presidential lounge, where President Shinra is hanging off the side of the building with impressive arm strength. I guess we still can't give Shinra staff any dignity unless they're Turks.

Barret hauls him up, and he gives an interesting speech about how Barret really just want to clear their names rather than shut down the reactors, apparently feeling that having a gun keeps him safe from the terrorists that have carved a path through his security. Sephiroth gets bored and stabs him in the back, and the Fanbase ghosts show up to yell at him for going off script. But he is not interested, and kills Barret, forcing the ghosts to heal him after an admittedly very cool Jenova battle, where we are left to wonder if Barret is really dead.

Then Rufus arrives, and there is a... battle with Cloud, complete with another unnecessary shot at the infantry who flinch when Rufus doesn't. The whole thing plays up Rufus badassery at every turn, which is so over the top it's ridiculous, but still annoying. He's also wearing a dress now for some reason? Not that that's a problem, it's just a bit unexpected.

. Because our leads aren't allowed any real victories, Rufus badassily flies away while his chopper shoots Cloud off the building, forcing Tifa to rush in and save him.

Remember how people were saying it made more sense for President Shinra to show up in hologram in Reactor 5 rather than in person? This is even more insanely dumb, and they played it up instead of down.

...Sigh.

Anywho, Aeris, Barret, and Red have to fend off a machine in an annoying battle where you have to do a lot of hiding and sniping with magic. I win, but it's a long slog.

Wedge fights the ghosts, who are upset that he's alive and appear to throw him off the building, which is...weirdly played for comedy? Okay...

In the lobby, we end up surrounded by infantry and Heidegger in person, leading to more slapsticky infantry antics as Cloud takes them out, and once Heidi is alone and undefended AVALANCHE decides it's too dangerous to stick around and flees.

That was a weird chapter. Most of it is taken up by Hojo's quite difficult gauntlet, and then suddenly all the plot is crammed in at the end, with a bunch of gratuitous Rufus badassery that makes no sense and undermines every other character. There's a quite interesting story about fate underneath it, but it's sidelined in favour of gratuitous Rufus badassery.

I'm sorry about the tone of this one, it's just... what's going on with these writing choices? I'm confused.
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
Rufus was never not a badass tbh. :monster: Personally, I just think his combat skills shouldn't have been so extensive as to be more difficult than Reno and Rude.
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
The preceding "Jenova" boss was pretty easy imho, so they could have offset the difficulty by making that one harder. It just felt weird to me.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Well, yeah, but it's so played up it just makes him look silly. And Cloud, for not being better, given what he's doing a few scenes later. It makes no sense for this fight to be toe to toe. He doesn't even succeed in stopping the soldiers from going after the others.

Heidegger, Scarlet and Hojo are late game bosses, but they get given giant robots and monster forms. It wouldn't be so difficult to have him be shooting from behind an energy barrier with Dark Star doing the heavy lifting, and maybe some air support.

(In the OG, the first thing Dark Nation does is cast Barrier and MBarrier on Rufus.)
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Did you not see what Rufus was doing?

There's nothing silly about Rufus being an expert marksman gunner, with a combat mutant doggo at his side, and able to do combination attacks with said doggo.

I'm at a loss at what's silly here. Him being able to aim precisely at his coins to shoot, which creates a railgun-like effect? What's silly about that? As demonstrated by the Turks and subsequent other human-like characters in FFVII and the Compilation, no. You don't need to be a mako infused SOLDIER to be skilled in combat. And Rufus Shinra is skilled. He's a trust-fund baby, but he's not a weak trust-fund baby.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
There's nothing silly about Rufus being an expert marksman gunner, with a combat mutant doggo at his side, and able to do combination attacks with said doggo.

I'm at a loss at what's silly here. Him being able to aim precisely at his coins to shoot, which creates a railgun-like effect? What's silly about that?

I love the discussions we have here.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I suggest swapping out Rufus for his father, Heidegger, or Reeve and seeing if your opinion changes.

It would, but...he's not any of those people? He survives his encounter with Cloud just fine in FF7, after all. Didn't even suffer injuries the way Reno did. And I would say that fight is tougher than the Reno fight at the pillar too. You will likely have to heal several times as Cloud in that fight, Rufus does not.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I always imagined Heidegger having some sort of fighting skill or prowess, given his battle scars and the fact he's respected to some degree. He may have some comedic effect but I never thought Heidegger was some weakling. He had to have done something.

Same goes for Scarlet. She strikes me as the type who lets her weapons and materia do the talking, and as the saying goes, looks can be deceiving. I could easily see her pulling out a giant Rail Gun ala Dr. Cid in FFXII and being able to just shoot shit with impunity. :monster:

Rufus definitely strikes me as a fighter though. The fact he came strapped with a fucking trick shotgun, an attack dog and everything else implies he's no slouch or reliant on others to guard his safety.
 
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