SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

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WookinPaNub

Lv. 1 Adventurer
AKA
K
I can’t shake the feeling that all of this “fighting against destiny” and introduction of spooky time ghosts is all gonna end up with the party ultimately choosing to embrace the future they were shown by the ghosts and defying Sephiroth. And it’s all gonna culminate in Aerith heading to the forgotten city knowing that when she goes there it’ll be the death of her, giving her at least a bit of agency in her own death, making it more of a willing sacrifice instead of an unfortunate casualty.
I don’t know, maybe it’s just wishful thinking, but there are routes they can go that might make a stronger narrative
 
Wol

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
oty said:
The Whispers were the cause of the visions? I always thought that was Sephiroth's meddling to prompt Cloud in certain directions, and since that is a disturbance in the time continuum, the Whispers show up whenever that happens. But I guess, Sephiroth partly controls the Whispers or something? My head hurts lol
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when the whispers approach the party near the portal, and each time you defeat the last bosses, you can see purple rays coming out from them; those rays cause the visions.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
WookinPaNub said:
I can’t shake the feeling that all of this “fighting against destiny” and introduction of spooky time ghosts is all gonna end up with the party ultimately choosing to embrace the future they were shown by the ghosts and defying Sephiroth. And it’s all gonna culminate in Aerith heading to the forgotten city knowing that when she goes there it’ll be the death of her, giving her at least a bit of agency in her own death, making it more of a willing sacrifice instead of an unfortunate casualty.
I don’t know, maybe it’s just wishful thinking, but there are routes they can go that might make a stronger narrative
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Hmmm, I think the Whisper’s are more likely to be the source of Aerith’s information on the purpose of the White Materia/Holy and how to activate it. But I don’t think the Remake will make her aware of her death and willingly embracing it. As not only the the OG and Compilation itself, but even people like Kitase and Nojima have stated that Aerith’s death is suppose to represent the random tragedy of loss/premature death, also that Aerith always intended to return to the party, and wouldn’t just intentionally give up her life.
 
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WookinPaNub

Lv. 1 Adventurer
AKA
K
Theozilla said:
Hmmm, I think the Whisper’s are more likely to be the source of Aerith’s information on the purpose of the White Materia/Holy and how to activate it. But I don’t think the Remake will make her aware of her death and willingly embracing it. As not only the the OG and Compilation itself, but even people like Kitase and Nojima have stated that Aerith’s death is suppose to represent the random tragedy of loss/premature death, also that Aerith always intended to return to the party, and would just intentionally give up her life.
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That’s a good point. I was just spitballing possible ways the whispers may affect the future installments. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of them. I think best case scenario is that they’re used to smooth out some of the clunkier elements of the original narrative; worst case is they make it even more convoluted. Honestly, after playing original and remake back to back it seems like they mostly exist as a device to impart third act stakes to the party in the first act, as opposed to the rather nebulous stakes of stopping Sephiroth from reaching the promised land.

And I fully believe the whispers and cetra are tied together in some way. There’s plenty of things that happen within the city of ancients with the spiritual manifestations of the cetra that seem to be in line with the whispers. Maybe just a reimagining or reimplementation of them.
 
Lex

Lex

Administrator
Right I'm going to post really disjointed stuff as it springs back to my brain. I'll be doing NG+ Hard on Twitch probably so I'll pop a post in here whenever I go live. I'm at least glad I can now openly discuss spoilers.

I want to mention what I think is one of the most jaw dropping moments for me, which was that long CG cutscene in the Shinra building where you see the ancients and a time-lapse of Midgar being built. It was visually stunning and pretty glorious tbh.

As a fan of FFVII forever and as someone who has now done everything you can do in a single playthrough, I feel qualified to talk about my experience a little bit.

Like, this game as a whole is excellent. It really is. I understand now why some of the reviews are of slightly mixed opinion (even though it's very well rated). I have to be honest and say that as I finished the game, I did not like the destiny shit (specifically, the resolution of that). I didn't mind it too much during the story - to be clear, some of the changes they made to the story are probably for the better! But I don't think we needed this big "change your fate" ending with all the other stuff going on. I was so removed from the overall experience by the "kill the smoke monster" boss fight and surrounding story that I found it hard to focus on the bits of it I actually liked.

I think I'll probably enjoy a second playthrough more now that my reaction to the bombshell is out of the way. I will just say at the moment that "killing destiny" felt like a "fuck you" to me. This game does everything fans wanted it to do, which is a hard thing to achieve. Then in a condensed hour at the very end it collects every single thing people vocally wanted to be kept away from the remake and throws it all at you, using it as a get out of jail free card to not bother doing the rest of the original's story in the same way. I am holding on to the fact that I could be wrong about that. I suppose my opinion on this plot point partly hinges on whatever they do down the line, but this was a big screaming message saying "we want to change the way this all plays out".

Even if you loved that plot thing, the pacing of the last chapter is honestly terrible. Apart from the gang (the glorious 5 are absolutely glorious) fighting boss after boss and escaping Midgar (those were tough!) which is an absolute gauntlet in itself, you're then sucked into an ultra long 5 stage fight and an utterly pointless Sephiroth boss fight.
 
Misterbadguy

Misterbadguy

Phantom Lord
AKA
METEODRIVE
Theozilla said:
Kitase and Nojima have stated that Aerith’s death is suppose to represent the random tragedy of loss/premature death, also that Aerith always intended to return to the party, and would just intentionally give up her life.
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If they hold true to this, I could see them pulling something where the party becomes aware she's going to die in the City via the Whispers, then subsequently somehow defy that fate, only for her to die regardless at another point as her death is necessary in all versions of events in order for the Planet to survive Sephiroth's interventions.

And if Zack really is still alive, watch them mirror her original death sequence except it's Zack who's holding her in his arms.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Now that I had some time to think about the ending

I like it even less :wacky:

It sucks because the game only officially released yesterday so we're at this point still far away from any clarification through interviews, Ultimanias or the likes. I just wanna fast-forward to whenever we hear what the plans are for the next parts and how we're supposed to take this ending.
 
Wol

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
Tetsujin said:
Now that I had some time to think about the ending

I like it even less :wacky:

It sucks because the game only officially released yesterday so we're at this point still far away from any clarification through interviews, Ultimanias or the likes. I just wanna fast-forward to whenever we hear what the plans are for the next parts and how we're supposed to take this ending.
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I dont think clarifications will help lessen the dissonance between the game and its final chapter, but it might dissuade fears about the project's future...

otherwise, i'll be waiting for a future mod to get rid of that shit.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
They could have but didn't, because that wasn't where their mind was creatively :monster:

It's like saying, I dunno, the "Deep Dive" ending could've been a million other ways. However, it was, what it was. That's pretty much the situation now, it's all an unknown variable. But you just have to trust and see what the next project will be. I don't really have any reason to worry given how they did Part 1. As mindscrewy as that ending may be, the game was in essence perfect. In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't change much, as long as they continue the level of quality and path they've been on.
 
Wol

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
Makoeyes987 said:
They could have but didn't, because that wasn't where their mind was creatively :monster:

It's like saying, I dunno, the "Deep Dive" ending could've been a million other ways. However, it was, what it was. That's pretty much the situation now, it's all an unknown variable. But you just have to trust and see what the next project will be. I don't really have any reason to worry given how they did Part 1. As mindscrewy as that ending may have been, it really doesn't change much to me, as long as they continue the path they've been on.
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and I dislike their creative decision, and think they could've done better... It is what it is.

They went this far to justify changing the MAIN story beats, big red flag for me or anyone that wanted an adaptation of OG, considering the "quality" of the new bits done here.

Also, if the fans that asked for a remake wanted mistery they would have asked for a sequel or reboot.
 
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Tetsujin

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Makoeyes987 said:
Welcome to the joy of ambiguity and mystery.

It's been a very long time since FFVII has had anything truly unknown regarding it's future or direction. That's the hook, and they did it on purpose.
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Mystery and the unknown isn't really what I'm looking for when it comes to remakes you know

Especially since I haven't been a fan of their VII output that wasn't the original. The fact this was gonna be an adaptation of a story I already knew and loved was comforting because I knew it would be a game with a satisfying story.
Now for all I know it might turn out like all the other Compilation oddities, none of which I thought were worthwhile additions.
 
Misterbadguy

Misterbadguy

Phantom Lord
AKA
METEODRIVE
I'm at a weird point where whilst I didn't necessarily like Chapter 18 or the manner in which things were portrayed, I am interested in where they take things from here. They clearly have a good grasp on how to portray the look and feel of the world and characters, so I've no concerns about those continuing to be good - it's the idea of completely new stuff or major changes to the progression of events that has me a bit worried. If we can expect the same "quality" of writing for entirely new story sections that was in Chapter 18, then I can't say I'm absolutely confident I'm afraid.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Given the level of what they did for this game, I have no reason to believe it would be something like a mediocre spin-off shooter from the early aughts. The writers demonstrated their capabilities, level of commitment and talent with proper resources, talent and development. When they roll their sleeves up to work, they'll work. So provided they do it right, I think Part 2can work wonderfully.

I get the shattering of expectation and wanting that comfort though. I mean, that's an honest and open explanation. I believe they'll continue to hold that level of adaption to what was in the OG while getting to flex some of their creative muscle too. I don't think they're intending to pull a complete 180 here. Not when they've already set a course for the project.
 
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