SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[Wol]

Given the level of what they did for this game, I have no reason to believe it would be something like a mediocre spin-off shooter from the early aughts. The writers demonstrated their capabilities, level of commitment and talent with proper resources, talent and development. When they roll their sleeves up to work, they'll work. So provided they do it right, I think Part 2can work wonderfully.

I get the shattering of expectation and wanting that comfort though. I mean, that's an honest and open explanation. I believe they'll continue to hold that level of adaption to what was in the OG while getting to flex some of their creative muscle too. I don't think they're intending to pull a complete 180 here. Not when they've already set a course for the project.

If they wanted to make minor to relevant changes they could be justified alone (like the inclusion of new events and characters aka chapter 4), the fact they went as far as adding convoluted nonsense tells me they wanted justification for bigger changes along the road, changes to the MAIN bits.

that or they want to trick us, but honestly toying with us like this is kinda disrespectful considering how much and how long we craved for this remake.

 

[Misterbadguy]

I took the "The Unknown Journey Will Continue" ending card as a very clear sign that all bets are off with regard to big plot adjustments.

 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah I mean, if they still intend on following the blueprint of FFVII except with a few tweaks here and there then the whole defying destiny nonsense would seem even more out of place and unjustified.
I mean I hope I'm wrong about this but y'know.

 

[Theozilla]

If they hold true to this, I could see them pulling something where the party becomes aware she's going to die in the City via the Whispers, then subsequently somehow defy that fate, only for her to die regardless at another point as her death is necessary in all versions of events in order for the Planet to survive Sephiroth's interventions.

And if Zack really is still alive, watch them mirror her original death sequence except it's Zack who's holding her in his arms.

Eh, I seriously doubt they will go that route. And I definitely don’t think Zack is supposed to be alive in the Remake.

As I said on Thursday

the basic plot line of the OG I expect to be followed, but I think the meta stuff is partially there to signal that the filling of the pie can/will be different. For example, I am expecting there be significant changes to how the Wutai plot line will portrayed, or how Cid and Shera’s relationship is portrayed, and I am definitely expecting the Huge Materia quests to be modified a lot, same with how the Tiny Bronco will portrayed and used.

 

[billy22]

There is hope in that 90% of the game had the same 'story beats' as the original. If you look at it from a padding perspective, you can can see some of that. One example is in this game they had Barret shoo Cloud out of 7th Heaven, which caused him to leave and do other stuff. This was done to pad the game and flesh out the Avalanche members in the meantime. Then you need to have Cloud rejoin Avalanche, so to follow up on that narrative, magical time ghosts of fate appeared and hurt Jessie, forcing Barret to let Cloud back in.

I think the very end of this game perfectly encapsulates what I mean. After the last hour of a story clusterfuck, you see the party looking out past Midgar and wondering 'What now?.' This is practically identical to what you get at the end of the Midgar section in the original game. You see a flashback of Zack as Cloud is walking away with Aerith watching. The implication being that in the next game we're going to get more information on Zack and Aerith's relationship and what it has to do with Cloud. Cool, this is what everyone wants. Hope.

Then as the screen pans out, the line 'An Unknown Journey awaits' appears on screen. As if Square is saying "All bets are off now. Who knows what the story will be from here on out?" And here the anxiety comes in, because you are painfully reminded of what a mess everything was for the last hour.

 

[Tetsujin]

Even if they end up mostly following the original in future parts, I foresee there will be at least one MAJOR story change. At the very least I think they have a somewhat different ending in mind. They pulled the Sephiroth vs Cloud duel into this game with the setup being a shot for shot recreation, which tells me they possibly don't plan on doing it that way again in the final part.

But man, what was even the point. Sephiroth doesn't want Cloud dead at this point. So why even throw buildings at him five minutes earlier.
It's kind of obvious they wanted to have an obligatory Sephiroth battle in this, whether it makes sense or not.
Like, don't get me wrong I enjoyed the battle (just as I enjoyed the battle system in general) and the multi-phase rendition of OWA was fire but...it's also exactly what I didn't want for this game.

 

[Theozilla]

Even if they end up mostly following the original in future parts, I foresee there will be at least one MAJOR story change. At the very least I think they have a somewhat different ending in mind. They pulled the Sephiroth vs Cloud duel into this game with the setup being a shot for shot recreation, which tells me they possibly don't plan on doing it that way again in the final part.

Really? The fact that it was such a shot for shot recreation/homage of the final mind OG battle, but with Cloud losing in this version, indicated to me that the Remake will likely be keeping the final mind battle (though it might not be scripted liked in the OG) faithfully in the final Remake installment.
I can see the Remake ending including more scenes after the Lifestream helps Holy destroy Meteor, and not ending with Aerith's face overlaid everything (but before the the 500 years later stinger).

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Really? The fact that it was such a shot for shot recreation/homage of the final mind OG battle, but with Cloud losing in this version, indicated to me that the Remake will likely be keeping the final mind battle (though it might not be scripted liked in the OG) faithfully in the final Remake installment.

I expect this is where they'll go on that specific point, yes. Sort of a bookending of how Cloud mentally stood up to Seph at this point in time contrasted with how he stands up to him by the end.

 

[Tetsujin]

What makes me sad is reading the positive impressions of people going through the game right now. Because I know a few of them will not enjoy the direction of the ending either and they have no idea what's coming, they're blissfully ignorant and I don't wanna spoil anything but at the same time I wish I could protect them

Wish I could just say to them, if you see a bunch of swirly nonsense at the end of the road, just...just back it up.

 

[Teioh]

That's exactly where I am right now can't bring myself to go through it as I've been somewhat spoiled on the ending but... I guess I'll have to do it sooner or later.

 

[Wol]

What makes me sad is reading the positive impressions of people going through the game right now. Because I know a few of them will not enjoy the direction of the ending either and they have no idea what's coming and I don't wanna spoil anything but at the same time I wish I could protect them

If you see a bunch of swirly nonsense at the end of the road, just...just back it up.

this is exactly what I was thinking.

poor souls, they aren't prepared for Nomura's ultimate madness.

also it happens so fast its shocking, not like some gradual build-up, there's no foreplay here.

 

[Theozilla]

this is exactly what I was thinking.

poor souls, they aren't prepared for Nomura's ultimate madness.

also it happens so fast its shocking, not like some gradual build-up or foreplay lol

Hey, don’t leave out Nojima! He’s worked hard for his weirdness reputation too! He didn’t kill Tidus with a blitzball for nothing!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

He didn’t kill Tidus with a blitzball for nothing!

Didn't he, though?

 

[Wol]

Hey, don’t leave out Nojima! He’s worked hard for his weirdness reputation too! He didn’t kill Tidus with a blitzball for nothing!

and maybe Toriyama also had his hand.

goddamn... Nomura, Nopejima and Trollyama working in the same game, its a miracle it turned out well for the most part I guess...

also it reminds me this could have been an epic win for SQ and the most accepted FF in a long time..

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

also it reminds me this could have been an epic win for SQ and the most accepted FF in a long time..

Seems like it still is.

 

[Theozilla]

I mean jokes aside, Nojima also wrote the the original and plenty of other critically acclaimed video game stories too, and weird final chapter aside, I’d say the Remake has been an “epic win” on the whole.

 

[Tetsujin]

The vast majority is indeed insanely satisfying imo. Which makes the ending all the more frustrating to me. This was almost the slamdunkest of slamdunks that I never expected modern Square Enix to pull off.

It's interesting that most people (including myself) were certain there'd at least be a post-credits teaser for the next part, even something as small as the party arriving in Kalm but they really left us completely in the dark here lol

 

[Theozilla]

I feel like FFXIV and Dragon Quest (especially since half of SE was Enix) gets ignored too much in evaluations of recent “modern SE”. SE has been doing pretty well in terms of producing well received games in the last five years or so.

Also if weirdness was inherently off putting to video games, Yoko Taro would not have the success he has today.

 

[Wol]

I mean jokes aside, Nojima also wrote the the original and plenty of other critically acclaimed video game stories too, and weird final chapter aside, I’d say the Remake has been an “epic win” on the whole.

Indeed, but that was on his prime days, maybe nowadays he has more creative freedom considering his status... not necessarily a good thing, same for Nomura.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The ending would be easier to stomachache if the entire game felt as "off" from the OG in terms of theme as the ending does. But it isn't. Everything up to the ending feels like the OG does until it takes a sharp left turn out of nowhere. So the fact that the ending isn't like the OG is painfully obvious. I hate to say it, but it would probably have felt "better" if it was obvious from square one that the major story beats of the OG were not happening. It would have at least resulted in the ending fitting the rest of the game instead of painfully contrasting with it.

The kind of weirdness that "doesn't work" and people find annoying is weirdness for the sake of weirdness. Yoko Taro's weirdness usually has an underlying logic to it in the world of the game that matches all the other weird stuff in the game. His games are also mysteries largley, where the characters in the game are figuring out what is actually going on around them. This includes designing the game in such a way that the player plays through the events of the game several times over by design, but each time, the player knows more and more about what is actually going on. So yeah... Yoko Taro's game are weird. They also know they are weird and give the player time to figure out the weirdness. Most importantly, they don't feel... condescending towards the player with the weirdness.

The ending of FFVIIR feels like... weirdness for the sake of weirdness. And for a large sub-set of the players, it kinda feels condescending in a "yes, we know you want the story of the OG, but we'll literally rise above that in-game to keep it from coming about" way. Like... the weirdness doesn't feel like "genuine" weirdness. It feels "fake".

 

[Celes777]

"You think you have changed your fate and you think you are changing fate. But you still can't change whatever you cannot change"
That is actually pretty FF7....

 

[WookinPaNub]

The ending would be easier to stomachache if the entire game felt as "off" from the OG in terms of theme as the ending does. But it isn't. Everything up to the ending feels like the OG does until it takes a sharp left turn out of nowhere. So the fact that the ending isn't like the OG is painfully obvious. I hate to say it, but it would probably have felt "better" if it was obvious from square one that the major story beats of the OG were not happening. It would have at least resulted in the ending fitting the rest of the game instead of painfully contrasting with it.".

This is why I’m in the “it’ll end being mostly the same” boat. If they wanted to fundamentally change the narrative the way many people are assuming they will, I think they would’ve made a stronger choice in showing its differences, not just a tacked on climax that leaves the characters exactly where they were in the original.

I’m ambivalent towards the last chapter. I’d put money on it being a clumsily executed attempt at a third act within the first act of a narrative and not them flipping the script entirely at the eleventh hour. But I do agree it wasn’t well executed and it’s certainly my least favorite part of a game that pretty much astounded me for a lot of it

 

[oty]

What makes me sad is reading the positive impressions of people going through the game right now. Because I know a few of them will not enjoy the direction of the ending either and they have no idea what's coming, they're blissfully ignorant and I don't wanna spoil anything but at the same time I wish I could protect them

Wish I could just say to them, if you see a bunch of swirly nonsense at the end of the road, just...just back it up.

Yeah it just kind of makes your heart ache. Some people are really pouring out their love for this game and they have no idea of what is coming. But, I also wanna see how they will react. A lot of them are straight up calling it a masterpiece without having finished it. Wanna see how is that going to stand after that ending.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

"You think you have changed your fate and you think you are changing fate. But you still can't change whatever you cannot change"
That is actually pretty FF7....

That's actually really poignant.

 

[WookinPaNub]

It’s gonna be an annoying few years waiting to see what they do and hoping it all turns out okay. If only there were some way of us knowing what these games are gonna be like. Like some kinda vision of the future from a buncha spooky ghosts, but that’d just be fucking stupid.