SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion
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AerithLives
Pro Adventurer
I think by looking at that Kingdom Hearts nonsense at the end and the fact SE haven't made a decent game in decades doesn't bode well. ?
Kain424
Old Man in the Room
I just don't think it's been ruined.
Seems to me, if I look at it from an outside perspective, these flashes mean nothing if you haven't played the original game. And they will remain meaningless if the events they depict never come to pass. So I think they are future events, misunderstood by the party, who are seeing them out of context.
Seems to me, if I look at it from an outside perspective, these flashes mean nothing if you haven't played the original game. And they will remain meaningless if the events they depict never come to pass. So I think they are future events, misunderstood by the party, who are seeing them out of context.
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
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- Rosarian Shield
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I wouldn't say there is no reason though. Others have made good points for it. We just don't know for sure, one way or the other right now
Clean Cut Chaos
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Cub Chaos
I pretty much said that to my little bro as a joke. Now SE has themselves a little side reality for some Zack DLC to be peppered sporadically throughout the new saga. They would probably be crazy not to add it in somehow, tied heavily to the story or not.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
SE hasn't made a good game in decades?I think by looking at that Kingdom Hearts nonsense at the end and the fact SE haven't made a decent game in decades doesn't bode well. ?
Well, its a good thing we're all entitled to have our own opinions on things
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. I mean ff15 did it with their alternate timeline/endings. They weren't canon, but was just extras for fans
MelodicEnigma
Pro Adventurer
Zack appearing in the end is most likely a sign of future DLC content after the last part of the remake is released.
I can see it now. "FFVII - Travelers of the Lifestream". It will depict Aerith and Zack as a spiritual power couple fighting Sephiroth's influence in the Lifestream while Cloud and the others fight him physycally.
I'd play it. =P
Though we wouldn't need playable DLC to depict that type of circumstance in some way.
oty
Pro Adventurer
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- ex-soldier boy
that's the Remake's special power you seem to be forgetting
it overwrites irl history
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Like @X-SOLDIER mentioned during AC/C Yazoo does use two guns at once at times, and Loz will sometimes only be using his pile bunker and not a gun. Though I will admit the parallels aren't perfect as the brawler Whisper has it's pile-bunker like weapon on its right hand while Loz uses his on his left hand.
I can sorta agree with this, though I don't think Aerith has specific knowledge of her death or other future events. Like with the Plate I don't Aerith specifically knew the plate was going to drop beforehand, I feel like it was more the Planet told her something big/bad was going to happen, like say it told Aerith a bunch of souls were going to return to the Planet really soon, and as soon as Aerith heard the plan from Corneo, she simply put two and two together. Likewise with her death Aerith, I don't think Aerith will specifically be aware that she will/has to die, but more she becomes aware that she needs to go to The Forgotten capital and/or her state of being will dramatically change, but she won't understand/be aware that it means she is going to die until she is actually killed.
I think you might have misunderstood Heidegger's dialogue during Chapters 5/6/7, the "returning him to the wild" I believe was in reference to Barret having been temporarily constrained/captured by the various Shinra robots, not Biggs (especially since Biggs makes no reference to having been previously in Shinra custody during Chapter 7). And Heidegger needed Barret to rejoin up with Cloud and Tifa because Heidegger's plan was to shepherd (at the cost of many of his grunts lives) the group to their broadcasted "execution" by the Airbuster.
I think you maybe got the gunner and brawler Whispers mixed up, the gunner Whisper has two "guns", while the brawler Whisper has the one big attachment on its arm.
Anyways, I think it's possible that the three Whisper sub-bosses could be meant to parallel/reference both Cloud, Barret, and Tifa AND the three Sephiroth remnants as well. Especially if the references are just meant for aesthetic/symbolic/flavor-text purposes and not literal plot implications that will be directly followed up on.
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
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- X
We see all of the Whispers coalesce into a big flash of light that seems to destroy fate all across everything (Zack's encounter) – but Sephiroth is also smiling at Cloud as that attack happens.
That moment where Cloud getting pulled into the Edge of Creation but Sephiroth just vanishes from their destined final confrontation is a pretty dangerous implication – especially as Cloud states that he didn't beat Sephiroth afterwards. We know that the Destiny that corresponds to the Will of the Planet gets broken as a result of what they just did – but that's also exactly what Sephiroth wanted to happen. I didn't see any indication that Sephiroth lost his connection to the Whisper Harbinger's power at all. He took over and used them to break one of the Planet's defense systems.
While the Will of the Planet is broken, nothing indicates that Sephiroth's connection to that power gets lost after the encounter. Given that his physical body is just chillin' in the Lifestream up North, it's more likely that it's something that he still controls. Sephiroth doesn't want to end or to have Cloud end. He's using Cloud's best intentions in order to avoid his own fate. He wants them to defy destiny together, because he knows that he can stay alive if he can get Cloud to do things that changes the shape of their mutual future. It's why now he's the one directly teasing Cloud with changes to their Destiny before he vanishes – He's got a connection to that power still, even if it's broken. It's something he's going to remake in his own image – just like with the Dark Lifestream he forms with Geostigma.
X
SailorStarDust
Kept you waiting, huh?
- AKA
- SSD
I swear he and his men were saying all this after Barret already returned to Tifa and Cloud, though. (You could be right!) Good point though, thanks
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
I went back and checked and no Heidegger's "return to the wild" scene occurs before Barret is reunited with Tifa and Cloud in Chapter 5. He even refers to Barret as "the third one" which wouldn't make sense if it was referring to Biggs as he wasn't the "third" person in part of the initial train group.I swear he and his men were saying all this after Barret already returned to Tifa and Cloud, though. (You could be right!) Good point though, thanks
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Sailor, about Sector 7, the reason some people think the plate drop was undone (aside from the fact that the Whispers were no longer around to make sure it happened), is because the 7th Heaven sign is in the state it was in after the helicopter crashed but before the plate came down. Plus people are standing right there in Sector 7 itself rebuilding. The sign didn't just magically end up somewhere else in the slums. It's really heavy, and it took several people to lift it. So they've got to still be in the Sector 7 slums when they're doing that rebuilding. Even the ground is the same, I think.
Also, as far as Biggs goes, I don't know that anyone's life was traded. We never actually see Wedge fall because the screen fades to black, and as the old saying goes, "no body, no death". For Jessie, the glove may have an entirely different meaning. I've explained this before, but I'll do it again. if it were a memento, both gloves would be there, because there would be no reason to only take one when she was wearing both. Also, the headband could've belonged to Biggs, not her, since his head was bandaged in the exact spot where he'd have been wearing it and we can't see the hanging ends anywhere. It makes sense that whoever treated him would have taken off his headband to bandage his head wound.
Now to the glove. I see it as a hint that Jessie is alive. Either she was found and treated along with Biggs or (and more likely, I think) with the Whispers gone, was able to get out the grenade's blast radius and avoid being buried altogether. Assuming she's alive, she may have recovered before Biggs. She's the only one of the trio with connections to the world outside Midgar, what with her contact in Avalanche command and her history at the Gold Saucer and the very play that's a part of the classic date sequence. So it's possible she left Midgar, probably not long after Cloud and the others did, depending on how long it took for her to recover from her own injuries. But before doing that, she left one of her gloves behind for Biggs, both as a message to him that she's alive and alright and also as a promise that she'll return one day and that they'll see each other again.
He has one, she has the other - a reminder to each of them of that promise and a symbol of their friendship. And in the course of her own journey, one that would likely be one of atonement for what she feels she did with her bombs as well as to find a way to either save her dad or avenge her parents, depending on whether they've still alive or not, she'll almost certainly run into Cloud and the others. Of course, this is speculation, but I do think it's possible. The glove would not have been in the scene without good reason, and SE knows that people would think of the possibility of her being alive the moment they saw it and then Biggs alive. So I think it's a pretty good bet that Jessie's alive and that we'll see her again in Part 2 in some way.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Pretty sure all -- or at least most -- of the dialogue was there in the leaks, just without any of the visuals or battle information that would give context to them.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Though this is more a gameplay thing, I could have sworn the leaks had Darkness as a combat element, even the though final Remake build only has Fire, Wind, Lightning, and Ice.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
You know, there's something really strange now that I think about the ending more.
Why is the penultimate boss of the game called "Whisper Harbinger?"
A "harbinger" is someone who proclaims or signals, the arrival of something or someone. What was it signaling the arrival of? There's only 2 things it seemingly heralded.
The Whisper Harbinger fight takes place in a ruined Midgar that's ripped apart by tornadoes and gravity distortions. The Whisper Harbinger's defeat results in the party finding themselves in a white, aquatic, peaceful space within the sky.
Then, the surroundings turns read as Meteor breaks through the space, destruction tears apart the entirety of Midgar and Sephiroth is floating above. He absorbs the energy of the Arbiters of Fate as Meteorfall seemingly begins around them, and then it all stops. And Sephiroth seemingly just... Launches the ruined landscape of Midgar at everyone.
After the final battle, Sephiroth tells Cloud, "Seven seconds till the end. Time enough for you. Perhaps. But what will you do with it? Let's see."
According to the story log in-game, "In the world beyond, Sephiroth shows Cloud a vision of the planet seven seconds before its demise. Having strayed from the course destiny set for them, they strike out on a path toward an unknown future."
So before Cloud and Sephiroth had their mock-showdown, we witnessed what was seemingly Meteorfall from FFVII happen before that fight. The planet facing it's imminent destruction 7 seconds before the end.
This is... peculiar. Since that's a bit misleading, given what we know.
Because the world didn't end there. It would have, had it not been for... An interjection by a certain someone. A miracle, one could say.
Going by what the Remake is stating in it's description of events, the Whisper Harbinger, was apparently heralding the end of the world (or Sephiroth himself), with a vision of the end and Meteor's success.
What was the white space that Meteor seemingly crashed through, with Cloud and the others inside? Cloud asks where they were and Aerith looked at him strangely and just.. Shook her head as if unable to say.
Why was the "destiny" the party witnessed, one of Meteor successfully touching down on Midgar and nothing else?
Hmmmm, what could be the meaning behind that? What could be the meaning behind Sephiroth's words, seemingly mocking Cloud and the others with the short time they have before the end?
Why is the penultimate boss of the game called "Whisper Harbinger?"
A "harbinger" is someone who proclaims or signals, the arrival of something or someone. What was it signaling the arrival of? There's only 2 things it seemingly heralded.
The Whisper Harbinger fight takes place in a ruined Midgar that's ripped apart by tornadoes and gravity distortions. The Whisper Harbinger's defeat results in the party finding themselves in a white, aquatic, peaceful space within the sky.
Then, the surroundings turns read as Meteor breaks through the space, destruction tears apart the entirety of Midgar and Sephiroth is floating above. He absorbs the energy of the Arbiters of Fate as Meteorfall seemingly begins around them, and then it all stops. And Sephiroth seemingly just... Launches the ruined landscape of Midgar at everyone.
After the final battle, Sephiroth tells Cloud, "Seven seconds till the end. Time enough for you. Perhaps. But what will you do with it? Let's see."
According to the story log in-game, "In the world beyond, Sephiroth shows Cloud a vision of the planet seven seconds before its demise. Having strayed from the course destiny set for them, they strike out on a path toward an unknown future."
So before Cloud and Sephiroth had their mock-showdown, we witnessed what was seemingly Meteorfall from FFVII happen before that fight. The planet facing it's imminent destruction 7 seconds before the end.
This is... peculiar. Since that's a bit misleading, given what we know.
Because the world didn't end there. It would have, had it not been for... An interjection by a certain someone. A miracle, one could say.
Going by what the Remake is stating in it's description of events, the Whisper Harbinger, was apparently heralding the end of the world (or Sephiroth himself), with a vision of the end and Meteor's success.
What was the white space that Meteor seemingly crashed through, with Cloud and the others inside? Cloud asks where they were and Aerith looked at him strangely and just.. Shook her head as if unable to say.
Why was the "destiny" the party witnessed, one of Meteor successfully touching down on Midgar and nothing else?
Hmmmm, what could be the meaning behind that? What could be the meaning behind Sephiroth's words, seemingly mocking Cloud and the others with the short time they have before the end?