SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Well you know how it is...
When there's no body, speculation of a resurrection becomes a hobby.
When there's no body, speculation of a resurrection becomes a hobby.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Was that not true of Biggs as well?
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
You’re right! I also thought that his hokey, saccharine death scene meant he was a goner for sure. The scene is doubly eye-roll now.
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Except that she was in it during the collapse. How do you explain her being found if the pillar wasn't at least partially intact? You haven't shown any screens of the exact spot where it would've been, either. And while they got people to evacuate, we don't see anyone going into the pillar to look for survivors, either.
And yes, Tres, Biggs' "end" was the same way. Yet he's shown alive. And Cloud was clearly wrong in thinking him dead. Hence the possibility that he was wrong about Jessie as well. The in-game text about losing Jessie may have been meant to convey the idea that Cloud and Tifa believed they lost her. But that happened before the Whispers were defeated. And as we've seen with Zack, their absence makes a difference in how things turn out. What happened with him was farther in the past than what happened with Jessie, so them not being there for something closer to the present could also have changed things for her as well.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
She could have just been found in the debris/rubble of the collapsed support pillar. Her being found doesn’t require it being intact. Plenty of other survivors were found in the rubble of the plate collapse. And I don’t need to show screens of where it would have been because it’s freaking constantly standing in the background of the Slums for all of Chapters 3 and 4. And it’s nowhere to be seen in either Chapters 13 or 15. In both those chapters we can see the other plates support pillars, if the Sector 7 one was supposed to be intact we would have seen it.
And just because we don’t see people going to the support pillar during the evacuation doesn’t mean it couldn’t have occurred, plenty of things could and did occur offscreen while Cloud is climbing the support pillar.
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Except that she was near the very top of the pillar. How do you explain her somehow getting to ground level? The other survivors found were already at ground level. She wasn't. As I said, in Chapter 15 you're at a totally different angle to the sector and much higher up, so there's no way you'd see it whether it was up or down. And you can't get close enough to its location in Chapter 13 to see if it's still there. The debris from the 7th Heaven blocks the way.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
She gets to the ground level because the entire support pillar falls to the ground, ergo she would fall with it.
In chapter 15 the very fact your so high up is the point. If the support pillar was still intact it would be standing up above the rest of the debris, which it is not. The view during Chapter 15 depicts the entirety of the Sector 7 area, there is no way they wouldn’t see the support pillar if it was still standing. The angle in Chapter 15 doesn’t obscure anything.
And in Chapter 13 it doesn’t matter how close you are to it, support pillars are so big/tall they tower over any kind of debris. And the fact that we can see the support pillars from other sectors which are further away, we would definitely be able to see the Sector 7 support pillar if it was still standing, which it is not.
The support pillar being destroyed really doesn’t affect Jessie’s chances of the writers‘ choice of whether or not she survived, if that is what your so hung up on. The only thing it affects is suspension of disbelief, which is entirely are qualitative reaction to the narrative, not evidence about writer’s choices.
rkss
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Me
I don't mind if SE want to keep Jessie around but it'd mean less screen time for Yuffie. So please don't.
Joking aside, SE should give Vincent's backstory more attention. Up to this day, I'm still unsure if I should hate or sympathy with him...
Lore & tragic-wise he should be up there in top 3-4, among the main cast but his eternal slumber thing makes me roll my eyes.
Joking aside, SE should give Vincent's backstory more attention. Up to this day, I'm still unsure if I should hate or sympathy with him...
Lore & tragic-wise he should be up there in top 3-4, among the main cast but his eternal slumber thing makes me roll my eyes.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
Wait, you've never committed a crime so terrible that you had to curse yourself to eternal slumber to make amends? I thought that part of Vincent's background was really relatable.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
How many times in my life so I need to put down this arguement? Who knows if she's alive? I don't, you don't, nobody knows but square. The glove is circumstantial, not actually seeing the pillar fall is circumstantial. There is nothing left to say. I want her alive because I like her, others want her dead because they don't want the plate drop to be robbed of its impact (no pun intendo) and that's fair. These cyclical arguements go nowhere, what is the point? It just frustrates everyone who gets involved. Agh.
I think the most surprising thing about this for me is that Tres is seemingly in the "Jessie is alive" camp. I was not expecting that.
I think the most surprising thing about this for me is that Tres is seemingly in the "Jessie is alive" camp. I was not expecting that.
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Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
So I guess it was never meant to be explorable, huh?
snatchr
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Snatchr
I mean given that none of them are actually advent children exclusive scenes and are just high fidelity recreations of OG material I'm leaning towards them saving on resoruces. If they started giving me flashes of bahamut sin or kadaj or something then I'd be suspect.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
The only thing is that the bit of Cloud leaping towards Sephiroth has a bit of a continuity error in this case since Cloud has the compilation version of the buster sword there.
snatchr
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Snatchr
I'm still expecting the buster sword to revert to its gaudy compilation version by the end of this so eh
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
What can I say? ??
It's partly wishful thinking, but I do think the evidence and sub-plot potential are compelling enough. I wouldn't have said so prior to that ending, but after that, the possibilities seem pretty wide-ranging.
Also, as it stands now, they've all but taken all the bite out of Sector 7's collapse already, so I'm not sure there's any harm in just finishing the job. =\
Maidenofwar
They/Them
This game tried very hard to turn me into a Clephiroth shipper - it's all about the YEARNING.
My party for beating the game was Aerith (L41), Cloud (L42) and Tifa (L42) First Cloud alone, then Aerith came in, then Tifa. It was wild, I used all my Elixirs. Practicing with my blocking helped a lot. I got ticked and was like stay the hell away from me with Sorceress Storm. Getting Planet Protection out when possible eased the pressure and turned things more in my team's favour. Transfer model/module is a nifty accessory. I didn't figure out what that thing did until some point c17. There were a few accessories I was like what when I checked them in menu and didn't understand if they did anything until I tried to equip them, still are.
My party for beating the game was Aerith (L41), Cloud (L42) and Tifa (L42) First Cloud alone, then Aerith came in, then Tifa. It was wild, I used all my Elixirs. Practicing with my blocking helped a lot. I got ticked and was like stay the hell away from me with Sorceress Storm. Getting Planet Protection out when possible eased the pressure and turned things more in my team's favour. Transfer model/module is a nifty accessory. I didn't figure out what that thing did until some point c17. There were a few accessories I was like what when I checked them in menu and didn't understand if they did anything until I tried to equip them, still are.
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
I kept going because he kept feeling the need to argue with me about it instead of just letting it be. I was just trying to point out an observation and got argued with for doing it instead of it simply being allowed to stand. And Theo, the upper half of the pillar above the platform did blow up, so that would be gone, but at no time during the collapse scene did the lower half suffer any damage. And with just the lower half remaining from the platform down, it wouldn't have been nearly as tall or as visible from any angle. And where's the specific debris from the tower itself? It would be a huge pile, if it was there.
All that aside, I don't really like how the story just basically tossed Jessie and the rest of the trio aside after Chapter 4 as if they never really mattered to begin with instead of incorporating them into every subsequent chapter through the plate collapse in order to keep them in the story and in the player's mind. Having a scene or playable segment with them in each chapter and including all three of them in the Reactor 5 mission while expanding their roles in it would have been better and would have allowed us to see what was going on with them, Barret, and Tifa while Cloud was stuck with Aerith. But instead, SE and the game did everything they could to make you forget about them after Chapter 4 and Reactor 5 until you get to see them seemingly die in Chapter 12 without even a chance to have more time and missions with them before that. SE could've set the collapse to happen a few days after the Train Graveyard rather than right when leaving, to allow time to reunite with Barret and the trio and have more story and missions with them.
Jessie could've also been given a Chapter 14 resolution and have it be a dream like Aerith's - she was into Cloud too, after all - but no, significant NPC's aren't allowed to have things like that, are they? Even ones who've formed a connection with the protagonist and have their own romantic interest in him. Must protect that twisted love triangle between a walking corpse (Aerith) and a walking trope (Tifa) at all costs. Sorry I'm venting a little, I just wish she'd gotten more in the game and story than she did and that the game hadn't tried so hard to make us forget her and the moments she had with Cloud by pushing Aerith in our face every five seconds once Chapter 8 hit. Jessie's arc with him should've been continued a while longer, not cut off. And hopefully in Part 2 we'll see more of it and without the other two butting in all the time and drowning her out.
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The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Well, this is a discussion board, not a bulletin board.
Jairus said:
Maybe you could just let his observation stand.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I was being facetious in an attempt to point out to you the silliness of your complaint.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
As stated before just because we don't directly see the rest of the support pillar collapse during the zip-line sequence doesn't mean it doesn't occur. And even with the upper half gone, it would still be towering over any debris regardless of angle, like 100+ meters is as tall as Godzilla! And the reason why there would be no specific pile is because it's surrounded and covered by debris from the upper plate.
Also even the wireframe map of Midgar after Chapter 12 shows that the Sector 7 support pillar is no longer standing after Chapter 12!
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
I choose to believe that you consider the size of all large man-made structures in terms of Godzillas. So the Burj Khalifa would be 8.3 Godzillas tall.
sorry
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
No, I actually kinda do. If my username didn't make it obvious I am a huge Godzilla fan, I have literally seen every single Godzilla film and own most of them too. Godzilla has had various heights over the decades, but 100+ meters is his most common upper level height.
