SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[Jairus]

How do you know those things represent the support pillars, though? They're not labeled on the map. And what complaint, Tres? That I'd like to be left alone? I'd just like to see actual debris from the tower itself rather than go by assumptions.

 

[Makoeyes987]

...The fact they're pillars, and are in the corresponding location of where the support pillars of Midgar's plates are. What else could they be? They're the support pillars.

 

[Jairus]

I'd still like to see a screenshot of the actual pillar debris.

 

[Theozilla]

How do you know those things represent the support pillars, though? They're not labeled on the map. And what complaint, Tres? That I'd like to be left alone? I'd just like to see actual debris from the tower itself rather than go by assumptions.

What you talking about? The Sector 7 Slum pillar literally had a label in the screencap I posted. It’s showing where the support pillar used to be which is now collapsed/crushed. There’s no specific debris from the tower because it’s covered and mixed with the debris from the plate itself!

EDIT: Here's the same Midgar map from before the plate drop! It literally labels the support pillar in both cases!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And what complaint, Tres? That I'd like to be left alone?

You called attention to your observation. On a discussion board. That is the antithesis of not wanting it to be discussed.

Which also has nothing to do with any notion of leaving you alone -- Theo commented on your proposal, not you.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Like, what is the question here?

The pillar is gone. It's representation in map is removed. It lies amongst all the rest of the sector 7 slum ruins. It's been crushed from the combined weight of the fallen plate and destruction from the explosive devices above it. How would it somehow even be left standing?

Graphical rendering flubs aside, narratively speaking, the slums were crushed. A plate fell on that entire area. How could that happen and the pillar itself magically remains standing? Come on.

 

[Teioh]

Out of curiousity, is the pillar destroyed when you go back to Sector 7 in Chapter 13? I've tried to watch videos of that part but no one ever looks in that direction. Wished I had a save file close by to check for myself.

 

[Ite]

Like, what is the question here?

The pillar is gone. It's representation in map is removed. It lies amongst all the rest of the sector 7 slum ruins. It's been crushed from the combined weight of the fallen plate and destruction from the explosive devices above it. How would it somehow even be left standing?

Graphical rendering flubs aside, narratively speaking, the slums were crushed. A plate fell on that entire area. How could that happen and the pillar itself magically remains standing? Come on.

Not really, as you walk the dirt paths right up to both Seventh Heaven and Wedge’s house. The explorable area of Sector 7 from Ch. 3 isn’t crushed at all, I guess there wasn’t a plate above that part.

 

[Jairus]

The plate came down in pieces, Mako. Not one big slab like the OG. That leaves room for gaps like in the explorable part of Sector 7 post collapse. And you forget that the lower part of the pillar below the platform was clearly shown to be undamaged and even untouched during the collapse scene. Things were falling and exploding around it but not on it. And Tres, what I was trying to say was that I wanted what I'd said to be left alone.

 

[Theozilla]

Out of curiousity, is the pillar destroyed when you go back to Sector 7 in Chapter 13? I've tried to watch videos of that part but no one ever looks in that direction. Wished I had a save file close by to check for myself.

Yes, the Sector 7 pillar is completely gone from the background in Chapter 13. I even stated in previous posts you can even see the Sector 6 and 8 support pillars in the distance but the Sector 7 pillar is completely gone.

Not really, as you walk the dirt paths right up to both Seventh Heaven and Wedge’s house. The explorable area of Sector 7 from Ch. 3 isn’t crushed at all, I guess there wasn’t a plate above that part.

Yes the degree of damage/debris in Chapter 13 and Chapter 15 don’t match, that’s some of the graphical inconsistencies Mako mentioned. But the slums in Chapter 13 are still covered with debris from above, even if it should arguably be more for consistency and suspension of disbelief.

The plate came down in pieces, Mako. Not one big slab like the OG. That leaves room for gaps like in the explorable part of Sector 7 post collapse. And you forget that the lower part of the pillar below the platform was clearly shown to be undamaged and even untouched during the collapse scene. Things were falling and exploding around it but not on it. And Tres, what I was trying to say was that I wanted what I'd said to be left alone.

The reason why we don’t see the support collapse directly on-screen is because during that sequence it’s a montage of destruction of various different areas in sector 7 (or a birds eye view from above). That doesn’t mean the pillar doesn’t come down. Which it does.

 

[Saven]

Oh, and here I was thinking that shit was gonna be wild like going to Wutai right after Midgar, timelines merging, etc. My anxiety level about this ending has dropped immensely in the past 15 minutes over the reaction to this ending.

 

[LNK]

Out of curiousity, is the pillar destroyed when you go back to Sector 7 in Chapter 13? I've tried to watch videos of that part but no one ever looks in that direction. Wished I had a save file close by to check for myself.

I recently played through again, and I couldn't see anything

 

[oty]

Oh, and here I was thinking that shit was gonna be wild like going to Wutai right after Midgar, timelines merging, etc. My anxiety level about this ending has dropped immensely in the past 15 minutes over the reaction to this ending.

Yeah, right?

Can we go back to discussing dog's designs and their implications on the prospect of alternate realities?

 

[Saven]

I mean, the remake already has changes to it already like Wedge surviving the plate fall before the ending. Nothing has really indicated that there will be significant changes so far like the one that I described.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And Tres, what I was trying to say was that I wanted what I'd said to be left alone.

That isn't how a marketplace of ideas works.

 

[Jairus]

Then I have the right to respond, yes? And I did go back to Chapter 13 to check, Theo. You're right that the pillar's not there. Could the debris have cushioned her fall somehow since it would've fallen with her? We know she was found, I just don't see anyone taking anything off of her without letting Biggs do it first (because he's her friend), and since he wasn't in any condition to do that, I think she's the one who left her glove there for him to find.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The plate came down in pieces, Mako. Not one big slab like the OG. That leaves room for gaps like in the explorable part of Sector 7 post collapse. And you forget that the lower part of the pillar below the platform was clearly shown to be undamaged and even untouched during the collapse scene. Things were falling and exploding around it but not on it. And Tres, what I was trying to say was that I wanted what I'd said to be left alone.

Even if the plate came down in pieces, which I agree it did, that's still sizeable destructive mass and force free falling from over 984 feet. The thickness and size of these plate fragments with the sizeable infrastructure of a city on top of it would easily and clearly level the already compromised pillar structure. Which was already being blown up and destroyed during Shinra's assault and controlled demolition of the structure.

And from the digital map of Midgar we see the pillar is gone post-platefall.

 

[Jairus]

Then where's the debris from it? Just asking. We never see anything specifically from it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

We selectively see the debris as dictated by game design. Those are the graphical inconsistencies I spoke of. From the pan out shot of Sector 7 in Ch. 14 it looks as if the slums were buried yet it obviously doesn't look that bad in the area we explore.

 

[Theozilla]

Then I have the right to respond, yes? And I did go back to Chapter 13 to check, Theo. You're right that the pillar's not there. Could the debris have cushioned her fall somehow since it would've fallen with her? We know she was found, I just don't see anyone taking anything off of her without letting Biggs do it first (because he's her friend), and since he wasn't in any condition to do that, I think she's the one who left her glove there for him to find.

I don’t know, regardless of whether she’s alive or dead, that’s probably going to be left up to player imagination.
As for someone taking a memento off of her if she was dead, I find someone doing that for Biggs completely believable because he wasn’t in any condition to do so.

 

[Jairus]

Fair enough. I suppose people looking for survivors could've already been climbing the plate before Cloud and Tifa ever got to Jessie, got to Biggs, saw him wake up enough to tell them she was near the top before passing out again, and got him out while others went further up, getting her while the others were fighting the Turks, then heading back down just as the pillar was starting to go up and getting out of the sector just in time. We don't see what's going on in the rest of the tower after Tifa catches up to Cloud and they move on, all we see is what they're doing. So I guess it's possible. Sorry, just trying to figure it all out. As for the gap in the stairs, I'm sure the people would find a way to cross it if they knew someone's life depended on it.

 

[Jairus]

I don’t know, regardless of whether she’s alive or dead, that’s probably going to be left up to player imagination.
As for someone taking a memento off of her if she was dead, I find someone doing that for Biggs completely believable because he wasn’t in any condition to do so.

I don't think it is, especially if it was a stranger. How would they even know he knew her? And why would they not give him the chance to see her first? It's disrespectful of them to do that. If she didn't make it, they'd have kept her as she was until he was ready and able to see her himself. So that question still isn't answered. It's also too much thought to fit into a short pan across when it was specifically designed to elicit a specific reaction - realizing the possibility that she could be alive. And I'm sure they'll answer whether she's alive or not definitively in Part 2, because they wouldn't leave it open like that if they weren't.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't think it is, especially if it was a stranger. How would they even know he knew her?

Whoever took him to the orphanage must have had enough familiarity with him to know to take him to this place of personal significance to him, so it stands to reason they could know he's been lifelong friends with Jessie.

 

[Jairus]

Even so, especially if they knew that, it's more likely they'd leave her alone until Biggs could do it himself, knowing what she means to him. Which is why I think it's more likely she left it herself.

 

[Theozilla]

Even so, especially if they knew that, it's more likely they'd leave her alone until Biggs could do it himself, knowing what she means to him. Which is why I think it's more likely she left it herself.

Biggs and Jessie had other living friends in Avalanche (as Barret mentions in one of the Chapter 14 scenes) and in the Slums. It’s not Biggs has exclusive rights to memento taking. Plus the people who found Biggs wouldn’t have any idea when Biggs might wake up. Someone else could have easily taken the gloves and headband as a memento.