SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Oh yeah I beat the story at bit over 85 hours. I just realized recently the Aerith and Cloud exchange might be a nod to the running thing from earlier through the game like when Aerith says that a compliment and Cloud says not really, I am the silly, they were just snarking, the confusion from the Aerith/Cloud/Sephiroth thing and the seriousness of the situation with the over all plot etc, just threw me off.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Butting in, but how about this: we consider Chapter 18 is nothing but fan service?

It definitely is fan service, however I think it would be a hugely inaccurate read of the entire chapter's authored intent to simply dismiss it as fan service alone. There are intentional entertainment based decisions in scene direction and gameplay meant to provoke visceral, raw enjoyment of the spectacle. Yet it definitely is meant to tell something regarding it's narrative and punctuate the individual story in a way that speaks to their intent. It holds meaning, but they obviously wanted to make it fun and something that would visually stun and standalone as the conclusion of this one game.

Which, for better or worst, it certainly did.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
I'm currently on the final chapter and considering not finishing the game, the gameplay just put me off on the last two chapters. Had the last few fights at least been fun I might have considered finishing the motorcycle thing but I've had my share of car chases and this one is rather terrible.

Close but no cigar. I'm gonna watch the rest on YouTube.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I'm currently on the final chapter and considering not finishing the game, the gameplay just put me off on the last two chapters. Had the last few fights at least been fun I might have considered finishing the motorcycle thing but I've had my share of car chases and this one is rather terrible.

Close but no cigar. I'm gonna watch the rest on YouTube.
Does Easy mode not make the Motorcycle parts any easier?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Does Easy mode not make the Motorcycle parts any easier?

It definitely does, as I tested it out and the amount of damage you take is minuscule while most motorcycle mook enemies die in 3 sword hits. It's definitely the best way to tackle the level if it's too tough, as you'll suffer no penalty and upon completing it once, you can skip it again, even in Hard Mode.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
I quit to Title screen, I have no idea where I'll be whenif I load up Continue again *shrug* Easy was an option I considered for 0.2 milliseconds but my problem with Motor Ball is, I get hand pain from that type of gameplay. I have ways of getting around left sitck jerking by using other fingers or even attaching floss string to it, but when you're required to use several shoulder buttons along with circle, x etc, there's really no way of getting around it. So not dying isn't my problem, its how the fight take too long. Taking out the wheels take some amount of presition. I could get around that by using long range attacks, but then I didn't have triangle ready for more damage once it staggers.

If I didn't depend on my hands for my job I'd just ignore the pain and go on with it. I have done so for other games, having to tape my fingers for work, lol. But at this point this game isn't worth it.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I quit to Title screen, I have no idea where I'll be whenif I load up Continue again *shrug* Easy was an option I considered for 0.2 milliseconds but my problem with Motor Ball is, I get hand pain from that type of gameplay. I have ways of getting around left sitck jerking by using other fingers or even attaching floss string to it, but when you're required to use several shoulder buttons along with circle, x etc, there's really no way of getting around it. So not dying isn't my problem, its how the fight take too long. Taking out the wheels take some amount of presition. I could get around that by using long range attacks, but then I didn't have triangle ready for more damage once it staggers.

If I didn't depend on my hands for my job I'd just ignore the pain and go on with it. I have done so for other games, having to tape my fingers for work, lol. But at this point this game isn't worth it.
That's too bad. I know that Kid Icarus: Uprising also had a finger/hand encumbrance barrier for a number of people who wanted to play it too.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Just wanted to say (because I feel like I haven't seen this discussed much) - I really love Zack's updated design. I think the VA overshadows a lot of opinion but I think he looks great in Remake.
Do you mean just in term of rendering? Because in terms of outfit design, it doesn't appear he had anything changed/added like Tifa, Barret, ands Aerith did to their outfits?
 

Fangu

Great Old One
That's too bad. I know that Kid Icarus: Uprising also had a finger/hand encumbrance barrier for a number of people who wanted to play it too.
Yeah, I'm selective with my games because of my issues. I cant play the GTA games and it bugs me. I was worried about the Remake due to being more action than an old fashioned jrpg, but it's been fine since not too much precision is required (save for running around in circles for the Rufus fight lol)
I knew there was a bike chase scene at the end tho, so I shouldn't be disappointed. I must admit I was dreading it since the Roche fight.

Maybe my bf can be arsed to finish it but asking him tonight he said 'that didn't look like a lot of fun' so we'll see.

Oh well :monster:


Oh and by the way, I was dreading major story changes in the later chapters due to the rumours of rage, but I'm not bothered by what I've read. There are other things in this game that bothers me more.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Maybe my bf can be arsed to finish it but asking him tonight he said 'that didn't look like a lot of fun' so we'll see.

Let him put in that work, that's what he's for after all! :monster:

As much as I love the motorcycle portions of this game, I definitely can get how they'd be a barrier or chore for other players. Motorball is unforgiving and while I love a good challenge, the fact Red XIII or Aerith don't heal you at least a fixed number of times, coupled with the sheer tankiness of his HP stat, makes the fight grueling.

The FFVII Remake is a wonderful game and probably one of the best well-rounded challenging games S-E has made since FFXIII. However, the two bosses that are probably a bit more tanky than necessary are Hell House and Motorball. Motorball especially.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Yeah I had 99 Potions Red XIII! ?

What kept me sane for Motor Ball is that once past the first stagger Cloud deals increasingly more damage per further stagger. Long range was the way to go to me accelerate up some once close to stagger then accelerate right up upon stagger, wail away with basic attacks, and get away upon comments from the gang, brake back into long range out of range of the shooting, rinse and repeat, with effective use of brake it's possible to take minimal damage at range. That you can do more and more damage as the fight goes on definitely boosted my spirits and spared sanity over the chip damage at the beginning. Dream Weaver and Arsenal were fun for me, Lustrous Shield and Planet's Protection OTP.
 

Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
Hey everyone! So, I did skim through these 87 pages of thread :desu:
So... I finished the game yesterday, and my first reaction was ....Qu'est-ce que fuck?

Ok, this is going to be a long poast, I hope you'll indulge me. To be honest, I was not thrilled by the ending sequence at first, but chatting with my spouse and browsing this thread has given me a bit more coherence to my thoughts, and right now my thoughts are well... it's not bad... maybe?

- Ok, so for the battles and visuals, I was overall fine with it. It felt more like fanservice than anything else, but ok.

My own interpretations of the ending (with a lot of redundancy with stuff already posted here):
- During the Singularity, you get a glimpse of mingled timelines.
- I'm under the impression FF7R is an alternate timeline from the OG, which, with reference to the initial Compilation material, finds its roots at the end of AC. Namely I recall the Kadaj / Rufus exchange:
Kadaj said:
As long as you exist, the nightmares will come again and again
Rufus said:
The Lifestream courses through our world… ever flowing between the edge of life and death. If that cycle is the very truth of life, then history, too, will inevitably repeat itself. Go on, bring your Jenovas and your Sephiroths. Cause trouble till your heart’s content. We’ll do as life mandates, we promise. We won’t let you win and we’ll stop you.
- My assumption is that Sephiroth only means of breaking this cycle is to breach an alternate timeline. So he needs to 'defy fate' to get out of the loops.
- The Whispers of fate spend the entire time rigging the plot of FF7R so that it unfolds like the OG. Aerith seems to have some foresight into future events, and seems to be aware of her fated demise.
- When there is the mention 'this is how it would look like if we fail to defeat the Whispers', actually it looks like the OG events. The characters interpret it as a 'bad ending', but I think they're mislead. In fact, having the characters kill the Whispers is playing right into Sephiroth's hand, IMO.
- I'm also suspecting that defeating the Whispers could have been Aerith's wish, for a different reason. Defeating the Whispers gives the possibility for a future where she's not fated to be killed by Sephiroth, so it could represent a path where she could save the day and survive... which is also the wish of many fans (not mine) clinging on the hope that Aerith will survive this time because the story gets remade.
- From a meta perspective, the Whispers of fate can be viewed as a large portion of the fandom who wanted to preserve the OG plotline 'as it was meant to be', and killing them represents Square deciding to be liberated from these shackles. The 'journey to an unknown tomorrow' is telling me 'all bets are off' from here on out.
- The big question is: even though all bets are off, what is going to change and how? Even though Aerith has now a chance of not getting killed doesn't mean she won't...
- Now I'm under the impression that it's actually Aerith that could lead the chase behind Sephiroth, not Cloud. Which could make the Kalm flashback unnecessary from a narrative standpoint. Why would we not want the Kalm flashback? Because likewise, there's little incentive for Tifa to ask Cloud about the Nibelheim events before the Northern Crater confrontation...
- I personally got confused by Zack's appearances, and yet do not understand completely what it described. Namely, one scene looked like an alternate timeline where Zack did manage to kill all the troopers that were after him. He looks astonished that he's still alive, like "I can't belive I managed to pull that off, Cloud check this out!!' My own interpretation so far is that we got a glimpse of an alternate timeline where he did survive, because we're still in the Singularity. To me he didn't look like "3 seconds before he's shot to death by remaining MPs", but that's how I viewed it. However, we can't have Cloud in the timeline of FF7R being where he is without having Zack dead in the same timeline. :huh:
- The previous point led me to think... so then all fanfics are cannon, now? (even the ones shipping Fenrir with the Shinra helicopter?)
- However, then I'm not sure what the last scenes showing Midgar under the rain of glitter were actually about. Same timeline? Another? Who among Biggs/Wedge/Jessie survived for the same timeline as FF7R? No idea. It'd feel very cheap if all 3 survived, IMO.

My three main comments overall:
- Even though I can make my peace with this ending, I didn't really like it. I took it mostly from the meta-representation of Square liberating themselves from the 'fated story' as they remake it. Square adding new elements doesn't bother me at all as long as they were coherent with the original story - personally I really did enjoy chapters 4 and 13, which were completely new content with respect to the OG. What bothered me was the introduction of a Plot Device element (Whispers) to forcefully integrate this notion as a part of the remake. In my personal opinion, Square could have just changed things right of the bat, and assumed these changes right away, like Peter Jackson made deviations from the books when he made LoTR. Adding the Whispers made things convoluted for the sake of being convoluted.
- the 'journey into the unknown tomorrow' is at the same time interesting, full of new possibilities and terrifying for us fans. I personally compare it as that moment in our lives where for the first time, we get out of our parents' home and start to live by ourselves. That first step into the unknown is an experience that can become great or terrible, and you have no idea beforehand how it's going to turn out.
- Even though I have lukewarm feelings about the Whispers and the Ending, it will not take away all the very positive feels I have for this game. To me, the most essential part was to be given the opportunity to reconnect with well-loved characters, and they nailed them. The remake versions of Cloud, Tifa, Aerith and Barret are my favorite of all FF7 material, even over the OG (same goes to secondary characters - and the brief time with Red XIII was awesome too!). I loved how they remained faithful to the original but expanded on them, they're more rounded now. So, to me, if the next game is to venture into the unknown with the same crew, sign me up :)
 

Jessie Rito

Useless Lesbian
I'm just gonna borrow @snatchr 's avatar to express my current mood about this thread
d36ee3a95bafcc329f79cc227119f212
Moooooooooood
 
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