SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[Ite]

They seem hellbent on hitting the points and including everything. I'm not sure what it'll take to make that a fact for some

I mean, the proof is in the pudding, so you'll have to wait until all parts are out, natch. And you can't say that FF7R Part 1 included everything when all of my favorite moments from Shinra HQ were cut (if we're talking pure runtime, then it's not an issue I suppose).

 

[Odysseus]

I guess there's a difference between something being omitted entirely and something having its details changed. You can't say they left out Shinra tower, but you can say they left out the shop, people running around the lobby, the prison scene, and all of the Turks interactions with the party.

That's what I expect in future parts, all the locations will be kept, but massive changes may be made to what happens in those locations. I expect fort condor to get an overhaul, Cait Sith will probably join the party in a more organic way, etc.

 

[Theozilla]

I guess there a difference between something being omitted entirely and something having its details changed. You can't say they left out Shinra tower, but you can say they left out the shop, people running around the lobby, the prison scene, and all of the Turks interactions with the party.

That's what I expect in future parts, all the locations will be kept, but massive changes may be made to what happens in those locations. I expect fort condor to get an overhaul, Cait Sith will probably join the party in a more organic way, etc.

Yeah, likewise I expect there likely will be some expanded/original scenario in the Mythril Mines/Elena's introduction, compared to the Turks just popping up and giving an exposition dump and a "we're watching you" goodbye in the OG.

 

[oty]

I mean, the proof is in the pudding, so you'll have to wait until all parts are out, natch. And you can't say that FF7R Part 1 included everything when all of my favorite moments from Shinra HQ were cut (if we're talking pure runtime, then it's not an issue I suppose).

That doesnt make sense tho. The proof is in the pudding, yeah, but how is doing the exact opposite of what they said and did in the first Part more likely than just continuing what they have already done? That's what Mako is saying. When talking about the future, it's all about probabilities. In what kind of bizarro world the chance of cutting up stuff from the original be bigger than just..continue what they have already started?

 

[Suzaku]

All those things you entioned can be explained in-lore, and that's why they don't feel random inside their own world.

Yeah, and the Whispers are just another kind of planetary antibody. Whisper Harbinger even looks like it could be an incomplete "Amethyst Weapon" to me.

I would not be at all surprised if they reveal that the Weapons are actually accretions of Whispers that were created to fight Jenova 2000 years ago. Which could also mean that Jenova or the Ancients threatened to alter history in the distant past.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if Sephiroth uses his newly acquired powers to bend the Weapons to his will in Remake.

Of course, FFVII also had the Time Guardian and the Void of Time in the Temple of the Ancients, and I would bet money on that section of the game being tweaked and expanded when we get there.

 

[looneymoon]

I don't really care if they cut certain stuff tbh since my main issues with their storytelling seems to be addition of nonsense, theme-breaking crap.

I would gladly sacrifice ultimately innocuous stuff like Ft Condor to appease the whispers and have the 1st game ending be patched out of the narrative

 

[Noble0ne]

Just jumping back on to enjoy all the people that said I was wrong about multiple time lines and Zack being alive admit they were wrong... Them new interviews and ultima guide took the last bits of hope away.... Hahahhaa there two sephys confirmed lol

 

[LNK]

Just jumping back on to enjoy all the people that said I was wrong about multiple time lines and Zack being alive admit they were wrong... Them new interviews and ultima guide took the last bits of hope away.... Hahahhaa there two sephys confirmed lol

Have they confirmed multiple timelines, Zack being alive, and two Sephiroths? Can you share where they confirmed those things

 

[Odysseus]

Have they confirmed multiple timelines, Zack being alive, and two Sephiroths? Can you share where they confirmed those things

Nothing was confirmed about Multiple timelines, but there are multiple Sephiroths.
Sephiroth comes in four varieties:

1. Cloud's hallucinations
2. Flash Backs
3. Sephiroth manifesting through the black-hooded men or Jenova
4. The final boss, simply labled as "???" in the ultimania.

I don't have the scans myself, but I'm sure someone here can provide.

 

[LNK]

Nothing was confirmed about Multiple timelines, but there are multiple Sephiroths.
Sephiroth comes in four varieties:

1. Cloud's hallucinations
2. Flash Backs
3. Sephiroth manifesting through the black-hooded men or Jenova
4. The final boss, simply labled as "???" in the ultimania.

I don't have the scans myself, but I'm sure someone here can provide.

I guess I don't really count 1,2,3 as being multiple Sephiroth's. If that's the case, than the OG had multiple Sephiroth's as well. I thought noble one was referring to different actual Sephiroths. Not hallucinations or black hooded men manifested

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

There's only one Sephiroth. Come on. All these others are not "real" Sephiroths.

 

[Suzaku]

There's only one Sephiroth. Come on. All these others are not "real" Sephiroths.

Well, without seeing the later parts of the game we can't be sure, but it seems that there are two real incarnations of Sephiroth at this point. The one currently crystalized in the Northern Cave that is manipulating all his fragments in the world (present incarnation?), and whatever the one is that appears on the Highway (future incarnation?).

Of course, since the Ultimania specifically mention that the two different versions of Cloud shouldn't be able to exist in the same space and time, it might not be that simple.

So maybe there isn't actually a Sephiroth in the Northern Cave anymore. Or maybe this is some sort of astral projection, or something else taking on the guise of Sephiroth.

Or maybe Sephiroth just violates causality because fuck the laws of the universe.

 

[LNK]

Well, without seeing the later parts of the game we can't be sure, but it seems that there are two real incarnations of Sephiroth at this point. The one currently crystalized in the Northern Cave that is manipulating all his fragments in the world (present incarnation?), and whatever the one is that appears on the Highway (future incarnation?).

Of course, since the Ultimania specifically mention that the two different versions of Cloud shouldn't be able to exist in the same space and time, it might not be that simple.

So maybe there isn't actually a Sephiroth in the Northern Cave anymore. Or maybe this is some sort of astral projection, or something else taking on the guise of Sephiroth.

Or maybe Sephiroth just violates causality because fuck the laws of the universe.

All that stuff could be true, but as of now, we only know of one "real" Sephiroth

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

There's only one Sephiroth. All these other Sephiroths are simply matter, physical stuff - cells, atoms - seized and animated by his will. They take on his form for as long as he needs them to do so. His ability to create illusions was well established in the OG.

 

[Glaurung]

Playing the OG, when you reach Kalm they tell you that they saw a man heading south to the Mitril Mines all alone. They describe to you that he was kinda scary with that long, black cape and that very long sword.

The gist of the OG was that you thought you were pursuing a resurrected Sephiroth, then you discover in the Northern Crater that you were only chasing clones being controled and morphed by him, and that the real Sephiroth is encased in a mako crystal. What remains of his physical body, anyway.

 

[Ite]

May I have your attention, please?
May I have your attention, please?
Will the real Slim Sephy please stand up?
I repeat, will the real Slim Sephy please stand up?

Spoiler: We're gonna have a problem here

Y'all act like you never seen a time traveler before
Jaws all on the floor like Nero and Genesis burst in the door
And started retconning shit worse than before
We think they're ignored, but then again, it's Nomura (Agh!)
It's the return of the "Ah, wait, no way, you're kidding
He didn't just burn down what I think he did, did he?"
And Dr. Gast said... nothing, you idiots!
Dr. Gast's dead, he's in Hojo's basement (ha ha!)
Feminist women love Sephiroth
"Chicka, chicka, chicka, Slim Sephy, I'm sick of him
Look at him, walkin' around, grabbin' his you-know-what
Flippin' the ma-sa-mune," "Yeah, but he's so cute though."
Yeah, I probably got a couple of screws up in my head loose
But no worse than what's goin' on in my mother's holdin' tubes
Sometimes I wanna get on TV and just let loose
But can't, but it's cool for Palmer to drink rocket juice
"My mako's on your lips, my mako's on your lips"
And if I'm lucky, you might just give it a little kiss
And that's the message that we deliver to little kids
And expect them not to know what a REEEUUUUNNNIIOOONN is
Of course they're gonna know what black materia is
By the time they hit the fourth disc
They start callin' it a Remake now, don't they?
We ain't nothin' but tired tropes—well, some of us, misanthropes
Who cut other people open like cantaloupes
But if we can beat dead horses and fan's hopes
Then there's no reason that me and another me can't elope
But if you feel like I feel, I got the antidote
Women, wave your pantyhose, sing the chorus, and it goes

I'm Slim Sephy, yes I'm the real Sephy
All you other Slim Sephys are just imitating
So won't the real Slim Sephy please stand up
Please stand up, please stand up?

Ha ha, I guess there's a Slim Sephy in all of us
Fuck it, let's all stand up!

 

[Roger]

If the Sephiroth at the Northern Crater can just physically be at the end of the highway, no need for illusions, clones, cloud, jenova or anything, then we don't have much of a plot anymore. That thing had to be someone else.

 

[Shademp]

May I have your attention, please?
May I have your attention, please?
Will the real Slim Sephy please stand up?
I repeat, will the real Slim Sephy please stand up?

Spoiler: We're gonna have a problem here

Y'all act like you never seen a time traveler before
Jaws all on the floor like Nero and Genesis burst in the door
And started retconning shit worse than before
We think they're ignored, but then again, it's Nomura (Agh!)
It's the return of the "Ah, wait, no way, you're kidding
He didn't just burn down what I think he did, did he?"
And Dr. Gast said... nothing, you idiots!
Dr. Gast's dead, he's in Hojo's basement (ha ha!)
Feminist women love Sephiroth
"Chicka, chicka, chicka, Slim Sephy, I'm sick of him
Look at him, walkin' around, grabbin' his you-know-what
Flippin' the ma-sa-mune," "Yeah, but he's so cute though."
Yeah, I probably got a couple of screws up in my head loose
But no worse than what's goin' on in my mother's holdin' tubes
Sometimes I wanna get on TV and just let loose
But can't, but it's cool for Palmer to drink rocket juice
"My mako's on your lips, my mako's on your lips"
And if I'm lucky, you might just give it a little kiss
And that's the message that we deliver to little kids
And expect them not to know what a REEEUUUUNNNIIOOONN is
Of course they're gonna know what black materia is
By the time they hit the fourth disc
They start callin' it a Remake now, don't they?
We ain't nothin' but tired tropes—well, some of us, misanthropes
Who cut other people open like cantaloupes
But if we can beat dead horses and fan's hopes
Then there's no reason that me and another me can't elope
But if you feel like I feel, I got the antidote
Women, wave your pantyhose, sing the chorus, and it goes

I'm Slim Sephy, yes I'm the real Sephy
All you other Slim Sephys are just imitating
So won't the real Slim Sephy please stand up
Please stand up, please stand up?

Ha ha, I guess there's a Slim Sephy in all of us
Fuck it, let's all stand up!

Really wishing now I could Favorite posts and put them in a Favorites folder.

 

[Rydeen]

It's gonna be a hard year for the Post of the Year award for sure.

 

[Shademp]

Of course, FFVII also had the Time Guardian and the Void of Time in the Temple of the Ancients, and I would bet money on that section of the game being tweaked and expanded when we get there.

I had forgotten that some rooms in the temple have unique location names in the JP version. Thanks for reminding me!

The room with the Time Guardian and the clock with a hole beneath is called 時の大穴, "Great Hole of Time" (google translate).
The room where you can shop basic things from a Cetran spirit is called 古代種の道具屋, "Tool shop of the Ancients".
The mural room is called 壁画の間, "Between the murals" (again, google translate). EDIT: Simply "The Mural Room" when run through DeepL.

In the English game, all fields inside the temple has the location name "Temple of the Ancients".

 

[looneymoon]

One thing that was hilarious and satisfying for me during the final fight was that the killing blow I made to Sephiroth was with a little poof from Aerith's staff.

23 years revenge, bitch

 

[Tetsujin]

 

[Kain424]

The rest of the events of that crazy original game are gonna be covered too and inexplicably, now that the Whispers are no longer around, somehow Cloud no longer needs them guiding him through the events of the original game anymore, like they did in this game. So since they aren't a sustainable idea even in this world of craziness, maybe they might not have bothered with them in the first place?

That's really the damn problem with them, isn't it? They're a really loud sour note for the game. And they just seem so damn pointless.

It's just bad writing. If they exist to put the game back on track with the original, then they fail in simply existing because they simply weren't there back then.

But then, the world of Final Fantasy VII is different now anyway, so their mission is a doomed one from the outset. Not only have the writers altered dialog and moved/changed/added events, the levels and world in general have changed to make the game a modern one. The game was going to be different with or without them.

Now, if their "defeat" means all events, characters, moments, etc' will no longer play out as in the original game, then they failed because their actions ultimately led to these different events. And to bounce out to that good old "meta" commentary, why not just make a whole new game if the creators didn't want to actually tackle Final Fantasy VII again? They said "no" for almost two decades. Why not continue?

However, if the game means to continue on as a more or less generally faithful version of the events we all know and love, why mar the experience of the Midgar portion with such a painfully bad and inconsistent plot device? Did they really feel the original game doesn't hold up on its own in Midgar?

It's confounding.

 

[looneymoon]

lmfaoooo this happened to me. My s/o was right beside me laughing his ass off going WHAT HAVE YOU DONE. I was like, IM MAKING THINGS AS THEY SHOULD BE...

It's me. I'm the whisper that killed Aeris.

Then I immediately got Cloud to use a Phoenix down on her, and proceeded to laugh even harder. NBD Aeris gurl, we got tons of those if that ever happens again

 

[ultima786]

Can someone provide the Japanese translation for this scene?

In Chapter 18, the Whispers let out a loud scream after the party receives a vision of Zack. Aerith says, "What you heard just now were the voices of the planet. Those born into this world. Who lived and who died. Who returned. They're howling in pain." Cloud asks, "Because of him? Sephiroth?" Aerith responds, "They... Their words... they don't reach him. All these moments and memories, precious and fleeting.... they're like rain rolling off his back... and when they're gone, he won't cry... or shout... or anything. He'd tell you that he only cares about the planet. That he'd do everything in his power to protect and preserve it. But this isn't the way it's supposed to be. There's no greater threat to the planet than him. Sephiroth has to be stopped. He has to be. That is why I'm asking you to help me. I know that together, we can do this. But if we do, we'll be changing more than fate itself. If we succeed... if we win... we'll be changing ourselves... I guess... maybe... that's why I hesitated."