FFVII REMAKE CONFIRMED

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Wait, I thought Kefka made it a point to destroy in order to create and attain god-hood for a new future? He actually succeeded in doing so.

No. Kefka was all about destruction for destruction's sake. He wanted to create a monument to non-existence. Kefka ascended to his makesnkft godhood by sucking the magic from the Warring Triad all for the sake of inflicting destruction and misery on people. The only future he saw was death.

As for Sephiroth in FFVII, they certainly showed a human side to him there too. CC merely built upon that frame of reference. His emotional break down and anxiety over his life was a very human and vulnerable reaction. He felt miserable at the prospect he was a monster and was desperate for an answer.

... It's what happened next that's sort of out there. :monster:

Sephiroth's latent destructive urges and capacity for unrestrained violence caused him to react to the truth in a most maladaptive and negative way...
 

youffie

Pro Adventurer
Yeah, I always thought he was a time bomb waiting to explode. To be fair, growing up in a lab with Hojo breathing down his neck and being used as a mass murdering machine since he hit puberty or something probably didn't help him react in the most well-adjusted way :mon: though that's no excuse, of course, especially for what he did long after he died.
 

MelodicEnigma

Pro Adventurer
... It's what happened next that's sort of out there. :monster:

Sephiroth's latent destructive urges and capacity for unrestrained violence caused him to react to the truth in a most maladaptive and negative way...

It's that part about Sephiroth that I enjoy the most, actually. The "fall" that he has is most intriguing as it really shows the capacity of conflict that humans could, unfortunately, endure. Sometimes when we see certain characters, we often or not don't think about the different shades of who they are outside of what's given to us. I appreciate CC because we got this in extension, thus the affect of Sephiroth snapping and turning into what he did was more impactful for me, especially seeing the inner-conflict he carried for years in everything that being the "perfect SOLDIER hero" carried. It sucks when this happens in real life, of course, but it reminds me of how some people who are close to those who do heinous crimes will be in such denial of such an affair—some people who do the worst things weren't always like that, or even thought of being who they eventually become.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
No. Kefka was all about destruction for destruction's sake. He wanted to create a monument to non-existence. Kefka ascended to his makesnkft godhood by sucking the magic from the Warring Triad all for the sake of inflicting destruction and misery on people. The only future he saw was death.

As for Sephiroth in FFVII, they certainly showed a human side to him there too. CC merely built upon that frame of reference. His emotional break down and anxiety over his life was a very human and vulnerable reaction. He felt miserable at the prospect he was a monster and was desperate for an answer.

... It's what happened next that's sort of out there. :monster:

Sephiroth's latent destructive urges and capacity for unrestrained violence caused him to react to the truth in a most maladaptive and negative way...
Both of them wanted to become a god and destroy all life of the planet they lived on. At the core, they wanted the same
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Both of them wanted to become a god and destroy all life of the planet they lived on. At the core, they wanted the same

Sephiroth and Kefka are completely at odds in terms of their motivations.

Their paths intersect and have similarities but those similarities are superficial.

Yes, both individuals had schemes that involved killing on a massive scale. However, Kefka was murdering people because he was a nihilistic omnicidal madman, who reveled in the sheer thrill of destruction. Kefka's ascent to the title of god of magic was not intended per se, it just happened as a consequence of gaining more and more powers from Espers he drained. He didn't so much pursue being a god, so much as it was the end result of taking more and more magical power so that he could enact his sadistic whims on others. He only lived to destroy and hurt people. He says at much at the end of the FFVI. He only wishes to destroy until everything is destroyed. He sees no purpose or value in life or living.

Sephiroth strives to ascend and become a god. He discovers this potential achievement via the knowledge he absorbs from the Lifestream and decides that is the path he wishes to pursue. He kills for that purpose. (He also kills because he hates humanity and the planet but in regards to his scheme in FFVII, that's his end goal). Sephiroth intends to absorb (or corrupt) all of the Lifestream, make it his own, and then once he's done, perpetuate the cycle and find a new planet and repeat this process.

Sephiroth is perpetuating and building on the cycle Jenova seemingly played out in its existence. Finding worlds, killing all life on them, turning it into a dead husk, riding it as a meteor, and then finding a new world to torment. However, Sephiroth has higher ambitions than predatory slaughter. He wanted to become a god, and absorb that spirit energy, because he discovered that ability.

If Sephiroth were to just be a carbon-copy of Jenova, then yes, Sephiroth would only wish to kill, replicate, and wipe out all life. But Sephiroth's experiences and higher evolution, gives him ambitions beyond just an eldritch alien from space. His predilection for violence and killing however is probably (and this is just a theory of mine) an inherited trait from Jenova, since Jenova is instinctively a murderous, violent creature. His hatred for humanity also probably stems not just from his experiences and discovery of his life being a lie, but also as result of his latent Jenova connection feeding on that negativity and amplifying his impulse to be a cold-blooded killer. Those stressors most likely created a toxic storm that resulted in Sephiroth leaning into his Jenova legacy, embracing it, and building on it to become something more than Jenova. Yet carrying on it's cosmically lethal legacy.

But in the end, Sephiroth's not killing for fun. He's killing for a purpose. And enjoying it along the way.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I love how Hojo is really the big bad of the entire game though. He's sort of the "Littlefinger", the guy who kickstarts every major crisis in the game. So while he is a vile person, I love that he exists.

I've always enjoyed that he's both the cause and the solution to all the world's problems. He created Sephiroth, but also made Cloud strong enough to defeat him. In Dirge he summons Omega, but had given Vincent Chaos, and therefore the means to defeat it :lol: Very self-sabotaging

All roads lead to Necron.

Dammit.
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
Something I never understood about omnicidal god-complex villains, as opposed to villains like, say, Light Yagami, who only want to reign as a God over a culled population, is how can they be recognized as a God if everyone is already dead? How can they ever revel in their status, beyond the memories of their destruction, if no one is around to worship them, especially of their own accord, because the ones that are temporarily alive to worship them are zombies anyway? I guess it's all just a game to him - it seems that way based on his flippant demeanor. But it seems like the omnicidal part of him is stronger than the god complex.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Something I never understood about omnicidal god-complex villains, as opposed to villains like, say, Light Yagami, who only want to reign as a God over a culled population, is how can they be recognized as a God if everyone is already dead? How can they ever revel in their status, beyond the memories of their destruction, if no one is around to worship them, especially of their own accord, because the ones that are temporarily alive to worship them are zombies anyway? I guess it's all just a game to him - it seems that way based on his flippant demeanor. But it seems like the omnicidal part of him is stronger than the god complex.


:ultros::bigmonster:
 

jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
I know people have emphasized how Sephiroth was made to play into Cloud's inferiority complex. However, one could also say that despite the seemingly perfect image that Sephiroth projected, underneath it all he pretty much had no one and again the company that raised him basically saw him as at first a tool to get to the Promised Land and then trained him to be a loyal soldier. Also I have a feeling being a celebrity as well would have added a lot of issues as well. I mean practically worshiped by millions, but in private they don't know the real him and ... that actually sounds similar to Cloud's crisis a bit in the OG. Like Cloud, all we know is an image of Sephiroth, but we don't know what his real self was like. Not the villain he became, but what he was beforehand. I know CC already did that, but before that in the OG we only knew him as the Ultimate Evil who was Op as heck and slaughtered our favorite waifu, Aerith.

I think this is why we see a lot of fan fictions about what would have happened if Sephiroth didn't go crazy and become the villain. Because I do think in another story, Sephiroth could have been a great protagonist of a RPG series or at least an ensemble cast series. I mean see the dormant fan trilogy called Another Side. It has it's own tv trope page and in there Sephiroth is paired with Cissnei. I actually think Sephiroth is fascinating in his pre-evil human self, because he kind of reminds me a bit like Raven from Teen Titans (the 2000's series). On the outside he's cold and unapproachable, while as you dig deeper he becomes more open and friendly to know. Seriously, I think that is the reason why Sephiroth's pre-evil depiction was one of the best things about CC. It wouldn't have the same gravitas if Sephiroth was always an ass and that the reveal of the truth just gradually made him include murder on his menu and a god complex. No, it's much more you feel more at loss at what he has become, because he used to be such a caring person despite the ice in his heart.

I think that's why I love those good AU Sephiroth fictions, because I do think if he did take another path then he could have actually become the hero he had the potential to be and not the manufactured one by Shinra to sell propaganda.
 

jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
Ah, I used to love Mystwalker's fics.

Yeah, too bad she never finished the trilogy. I know we already have a stoic, badass with a troubled past in the main party (aka Vincent), however, Sephiroth can still offer something unique in an AU where he is good. Also I like in Mystwalker's Another Side story is the fact that Cloud could be the fanboy he used be in canon before Sephiroth burn down his town.

I also wonder why there are no AU's of good Sephiroth and he takes Cloud as an student, despite not being in soldier but just infantry men.
 
Cloud/Sephiroth is very much not my cup of tea, but one can't deny it's the most popular ship in the fandom. (956 fics on AO3, with Cloud/Tifa coming in second at 715 and Zack/Cloud taking bronze with 711). Clearly, it's a relationship that resonates with a lot of people. My guess is the things they like about it (aside from the porn) are the elements of reconciliation, healing, transformation of hate to love, redemption etc... Obsession too, I guess.
 

jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
Because having sex with the person that ruined your life is fun and healthy, don't you know?

It's called Foe Yay. Also again this thread's previous post really show how intense their relationship is. Heck, when it comes down to it Sephiroth can be considered his third option love interest at this point.

Also if they had gotten to know each other personally before he turned evil then he would have actually learned more about him. In so many ways, Sephiroth was like him even though he was this idealized vision of what a warrior should be. I do think it would be interesting young Cloud at first being all fanboying over Sephiroth, before getting to know the real him instead of the poster version of him. In other words, it would have fit in the original's game's message about how people are not always how they portray themselves. I think even before Sephiroth embraced his self-delusions there was a lot obvious things about him never having a true opportunity to fully show what kind of person he was outside of the warrior.

Also pre-evil Sephiroth and Cloud could have bonded over the act that both of them had pretty lonely childhoods, while the former would secretly envy that Cloud had a nurturing mother who was there for him. Seriously, I could so see a pre-evil Sephiroth say in an AU where he actually knew Cloud personally that even with all the fame, ability, and power he has in the world he actually really kind of wants the simple things that he takes for granted. In a way, an AU with Sephiroth mentoring Cloud could have been therapeutic for both of them in a way.
 
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