The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Fishing mini-games. Plural.
FFVII REMAKE CONFIRMED
- Thread starter Elessar
- Start date
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I'd like a more sinister version as well
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Fishing in the slum sewers?
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Dee
sweet dee
- AKA
- Bun, Academic
This makes more sense. That he adds to the story, drives the development is understandable. But liking his character and personality just doesn't make sense to me.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
*side-eyes entire Sephiroth fandom...*
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I mean, I certainly love Sephiroth and Hojo for their bad characters and personality. 
It makes them entertaining and extraordinary villains. Any scene they appear in becomes interesting and dynamic thanks to their presence and actions. They're never boring and bring out the best of the heroes, so to speak.
I mean, Wedge is a great guy but he's definitely not going to be as entertaining or memorable as Hojo on a beach, or Sephiroth on the water alter.
A Sephiroth who isn't being a cruel mass-murdering mind-screwing sadist is just a bishounen from a BL doujin. The evil is part of the charm.
It makes them entertaining and extraordinary villains. Any scene they appear in becomes interesting and dynamic thanks to their presence and actions. They're never boring and bring out the best of the heroes, so to speak.
I mean, Wedge is a great guy but he's definitely not going to be as entertaining or memorable as Hojo on a beach, or Sephiroth on the water alter.
A Sephiroth who isn't being a cruel mass-murdering mind-screwing sadist is just a bishounen from a BL doujin. The evil is part of the charm.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
Good guys can be entertaining or memorable if they have a trait beyond just being good guys. I don't necessarily count stuff like Biggs' obsession with keeping things clean, for example. That's more of a quirk than an interesting trait.
For me, the evil deeds committed by characters doesn't change if I like them or not, and that's mostly because I never get that immersed in a story. Sephiroth didn't kill Aerith, because A) she's a character, not a person, and B) it was the writer who "killed" her, because that's what they felt would be best for the story.
For me, the evil deeds committed by characters doesn't change if I like them or not, and that's mostly because I never get that immersed in a story. Sephiroth didn't kill Aerith, because A) she's a character, not a person, and B) it was the writer who "killed" her, because that's what they felt would be best for the story.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
I mean, does Sephiroth have a character beyond "I am evil, manipulative, and intimidating" originally? His motives are shallow to the point of being near non-existent, in my opinion. Sephiroth is memorable more because of the sort of presence he has more than his personality. Every time he is around its a major event, and his shadow lingers over you when he's not (quite literally after meteor gets summoned.)
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Heroes absolutely can be entertaining, and most of the time they're entertaining due to the circumstances the plot of the story puts them through. Which includes the role a villain plays in challenging and pushing the hero to be a hero. Cloud is absolutely badass and an entertaining character, and that's in part due to his rivalry and overcoming what Sephiroth throws at him. The fact Cloud had to deal with the circumstance of Sephiroth and his identity being pulled from under him is what made Cloud such a memorable character, along with facing off and vanquishing Sephiroth. Saving the world from that type of enemy, is memorable and entertaining.
Sephiroth in turn is a villain who is entertaining, charismatic and amusing in how he performs his evil. Same with Hojo. Their personalities are strong, memorable and entertaining. They do things you'll never forget, and for reasons you'll never forget. They carve a space for themselves and make every scene they participate in leave an impact.
Compare that with more mundane villains like President Shinra. They're not as entertaining because they're more down the middle. They're terrible people but without nearly the dynamic entertainment value as others. Now, Heidegger and Scarlet are kinda memorable and hilarious in their own way due to their own quirks and unique personalities too.
Umm, yeah he does? Sephiroth is motivated by hatred and desire to ascend beyond humans and reign as a deity supreme. His personality is sadistic, calculating, and cruel. He answers grief and sorrow with cold indifference and sarcastic mocking. He absolutely loathes humans after being built up as a superhero and holds a special place in his heart for Cloud to hate especially
And Sephiroth's motives are far from shallow. Until FFVII, there was never an FF villain that made it a point to destroy in order to create and attain god-hood for a new future. Kefka was an omnicidal maniac. Ex-Death lost his mind and wanted to send existence to the void. Zemus was intent on destroying all of humanity and then existence. Cloud of Darkness wished to send all existence to the void. Emperor Mateus wanted to rule the world until dying and coming back from Hell with a new thirst to destroy all life. And Chaos/Garland wanted a time-loop to live forever and suck the life out of the crystals.
Sephiroth set the stage of having villains aim for something beyond just killing all life, with a far more dynamic characterization. A trait that was built upon by villains like Ultimecia, Vayne, Caius, Ardyn etc.
Sephiroth in turn is a villain who is entertaining, charismatic and amusing in how he performs his evil. Same with Hojo. Their personalities are strong, memorable and entertaining. They do things you'll never forget, and for reasons you'll never forget. They carve a space for themselves and make every scene they participate in leave an impact.
Compare that with more mundane villains like President Shinra. They're not as entertaining because they're more down the middle. They're terrible people but without nearly the dynamic entertainment value as others. Now, Heidegger and Scarlet are kinda memorable and hilarious in their own way due to their own quirks and unique personalities too.
Umm, yeah he does? Sephiroth is motivated by hatred and desire to ascend beyond humans and reign as a deity supreme. His personality is sadistic, calculating, and cruel. He answers grief and sorrow with cold indifference and sarcastic mocking. He absolutely loathes humans after being built up as a superhero and holds a special place in his heart for Cloud to hate especially
And Sephiroth's motives are far from shallow. Until FFVII, there was never an FF villain that made it a point to destroy in order to create and attain god-hood for a new future. Kefka was an omnicidal maniac. Ex-Death lost his mind and wanted to send existence to the void. Zemus was intent on destroying all of humanity and then existence. Cloud of Darkness wished to send all existence to the void. Emperor Mateus wanted to rule the world until dying and coming back from Hell with a new thirst to destroy all life. And Chaos/Garland wanted a time-loop to live forever and suck the life out of the crystals.
Sephiroth set the stage of having villains aim for something beyond just killing all life, with a far more dynamic characterization. A trait that was built upon by villains like Ultimecia, Vayne, Caius, Ardyn etc.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
Guess I'm the bad guy on this one, and I acknowledge my opinion isn't universal, but none of that is especially interesting or original to me. It's probably because I got to live all the JRPG Villains who were inspired by him before actually playing FFVII for myself. Sephiroth is most interesting in how He relates to Cloud. He's the perfect, cool, beloved super SOLDIER that Cloud could never be, he's the mountain that blocks the path. For me at least, that's all he ever needs to be. His power at the expense of his humanity comes into contrast with Cloud's power gained through his allies. I'm not saying "Sephiroth is a lame edgelord, kefka 4 lyfe" over here, I think he's a brilliant character in how the game uses him. There's a reason all the tropes surrounding him became so cliche later. He's still my favorite FF villain, don't get me wrong.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
His obsession with Cloud is what keeps Sephiroth, or at least his malignant will, alive.
I mean in a way, when you think about it, Cloud succeeded in his boyhood dream: he has become the most important person in Sephiroth's world. Possibly the only person.
I mean in a way, when you think about it, Cloud succeeded in his boyhood dream: he has become the most important person in Sephiroth's world. Possibly the only person.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Even in terms of the original game, Cloud accomplished that.
The guy who manages to kill you, certainly becomes an important person in your world.
The guy who manages to kill you, certainly becomes an important person in your world.
Glaurung
Forgot the cutesy in my other pants. Sorry.
- AKA
- Mama Dragon
Of course they can! Just look at Zack.
But the thing with bad guys is this: the meassure of a hero is given by the odds they are pitted against. Meaning that a hero is only as great as the villain is. Sephiroth is memorable in every way, from his past as a hero to his downfall. He's liked so much because, as many players got their hands on the game during their teen years, seeing someone snap and become a tortured soul because the old "I shouldn't have been born" excuse instead of "Imma destroy the world because of the lulz" seemed realistic enough. Let's face it: many players resonated with that situation because teenagers' angst and thought that gave him a reasonable excuse to be bitter about everything. That's not to say that we didn't enjoy royally kicking his bishonen ass into oblivion, though
Also, long silver hair and black coat
Last edited:
Elisa Maza
Whomst
It's an interestng discussion.
I'm in a place most ppl aren't right now (I guess). Just like with real life, I've come to appreciate and love characters who are kind/genunely good instead of charming/engaging/interesting/clever/whatever else and jerks/assholes/villains.
Once upon a time, when I were younger, I was enthralled by Sephiroth, Rufus, etc. Now, I am all like "Oh, this character does bad things, wow... original. Not.
"
There are so many bad guys ruling in real life right now that seeing a character who is simply GOOD is a rarity in fiction... as well as in real life. I find this more touching, more engaging. It's the legitimate escapism to see somebody who is a good person. Reality sucks too much nowadays.
With regards to looks, both in animation and video games, the pretty anime style is everywhere. With such oversaturation in media, looks have lost their glam for me; seen it, paid it, seen even the porn version of it.
That's a long way of me saying that I actively find myself caring more for Wedge and his cute, open, honest and genuine friendly demeanor, rather than anything pretty boys Rufus/Tseng/Sephiroth say/do.
I'm so old.
(...I'm 32.)
I'm in a place most ppl aren't right now (I guess). Just like with real life, I've come to appreciate and love characters who are kind/genunely good instead of charming/engaging/interesting/clever/whatever else and jerks/assholes/villains.
Once upon a time, when I were younger, I was enthralled by Sephiroth, Rufus, etc. Now, I am all like "Oh, this character does bad things, wow... original. Not.
"There are so many bad guys ruling in real life right now that seeing a character who is simply GOOD is a rarity in fiction... as well as in real life. I find this more touching, more engaging. It's the legitimate escapism to see somebody who is a good person. Reality sucks too much nowadays.
With regards to looks, both in animation and video games, the pretty anime style is everywhere. With such oversaturation in media, looks have lost their glam for me; seen it, paid it, seen even the porn version of it.
That's a long way of me saying that I actively find myself caring more for Wedge and his cute, open, honest and genuine friendly demeanor, rather than anything pretty boys Rufus/Tseng/Sephiroth say/do.
I'm so old.
(...I'm 32.)
Last edited:
oty
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- ex-soldier boy
Yup, I think Sephiroth's relation to Cloud has always been such an important part of why both of them are such great characters. I mean, even in AC, which was over the top as you can imagine, it was still so cool seeing them two. And it's one thing we've seen the Remake expanding. I mean hell, it looks like Sephiroth is going to make Cloud's life a living hell.
It's kind of why I don't have a firm opinion on "Sephiroth was actually a chill guy before he discovered the truth" thingy. The way that he acts with Cloud is not from a "good guy turned bad". Sephiroth is the Planet's evil, but more importantly, he is Cloud's ultimate evil. That's why when going to the Crater, Cloud says that his reason is to "settle things up". And why the final battle is literally a direct clash in Cloud's mind, because Sephiroth has been in his mind, for too long. Ever since he started to dream to become something.
It's also a good argument against Zack hardcore fans in my own direct battle against them
It's kind of why I don't have a firm opinion on "Sephiroth was actually a chill guy before he discovered the truth" thingy. The way that he acts with Cloud is not from a "good guy turned bad". Sephiroth is the Planet's evil, but more importantly, he is Cloud's ultimate evil. That's why when going to the Crater, Cloud says that his reason is to "settle things up". And why the final battle is literally a direct clash in Cloud's mind, because Sephiroth has been in his mind, for too long. Ever since he started to dream to become something.
It's also a good argument against Zack hardcore fans in my own direct battle against them
youffie
Pro Adventurer
He may not be the most multi-faced character, but I like Sephiroth because he’s in complete control of the narrative, and you only realize the extent of it on subsequent playthroughs. Some things that we can infer about him are written in a rather indirect way, which is very interesting for a character that steals every scene he’s in with his commanding presence. There are layers if you want to go there, but if you don’t, he still works as an amazing villain for all the reasons that everyone mentioned.
As a character, he’s tricky because we see little of him and he rarely lets his guard down enough to show what he’s really thinking or feeling. In fact, I can only think of one truly revealing moment, and that is when he sees the pods with the makonoids and he says that he always felt he was different from the others, that he was special – kind of like a certain kid from a small town who couldn’t fit in and tried to convince himself that it was because he was better than everyone else. After the things he read in the mansion, I think Sephiroth needed to believe he was above everyone and everything even more, and he decided to own the narrative because he’d never let himself be a victim of it. If he has to destroy the world to bury the idea that he’s just a puppet in someone else’s ploy, so be it.
While it’s true that the Compilation overused the concept to the point of making it over the top at times, I’d say that believing that Sephiroth didn’t care that much about Cloud in the OG is exactly what Sephiroth wants Cloud (and the player) to believe, which suggests to me that maybe that’s not really the case after all. A lowly grunt killing him was the final blow to the identity of a man whose superiority complex had already taken a huge blow and whose last words were Don’t push your luck. Of course, he would have gone with his plan anyway even without Cloud, but I don’t believe for a second that he didn’t relish putting him in his place, making him hit and almost kill Aeris, and generally making him feel like less than nothing. For someone who’s so good at making it look like he’s this godlike force of nature that just happens, that need for self-validation and revenge sounds distinctly human to me, and it’s what arguably leads to his defeat. A fitting end.
As a character, he’s tricky because we see little of him and he rarely lets his guard down enough to show what he’s really thinking or feeling. In fact, I can only think of one truly revealing moment, and that is when he sees the pods with the makonoids and he says that he always felt he was different from the others, that he was special – kind of like a certain kid from a small town who couldn’t fit in and tried to convince himself that it was because he was better than everyone else. After the things he read in the mansion, I think Sephiroth needed to believe he was above everyone and everything even more, and he decided to own the narrative because he’d never let himself be a victim of it. If he has to destroy the world to bury the idea that he’s just a puppet in someone else’s ploy, so be it.
While it’s true that the Compilation overused the concept to the point of making it over the top at times, I’d say that believing that Sephiroth didn’t care that much about Cloud in the OG is exactly what Sephiroth wants Cloud (and the player) to believe, which suggests to me that maybe that’s not really the case after all. A lowly grunt killing him was the final blow to the identity of a man whose superiority complex had already taken a huge blow and whose last words were Don’t push your luck. Of course, he would have gone with his plan anyway even without Cloud, but I don’t believe for a second that he didn’t relish putting him in his place, making him hit and almost kill Aeris, and generally making him feel like less than nothing. For someone who’s so good at making it look like he’s this godlike force of nature that just happens, that need for self-validation and revenge sounds distinctly human to me, and it’s what arguably leads to his defeat. A fitting end.
Glaurung
Forgot the cutesy in my other pants. Sorry.
- AKA
- Mama Dragon
It's an interestng discussion.
I'm in a place most ppl aren't right now (I guess). Just like with real life, I've come to appreciate and love characters who are kind/genunely good instead of charming/engaging/interesting/clever/whatever else and jerks/assholes/villains.
Once upon a time, when I were younger, I was enthralled by Sephiroth, Rufus, etc. Now, I am all like "Oh, this character does bad things, wow... original. Not.
There are so many bad guys ruling in real life right now that seeing a character who is simply GOOD is a rarity in fiction... as well as in real life. I find this more touching, more engaging. It's the legitimate escapism to see somebody who is a good person. Reality sucks too much nowadays.
With regards to looks, both in animation and video games, the pretty anime style is everywhere. With such oversaturation in media, looks have lost their glam for me; seen it, paid it, seen even the porn version of it.
That's a long way of me saying that I actively find myself caring more for Wedge and his cute, open, honest and genuine friendly demeanor, rather than anything pretty boys Rufus/Tseng/Sephiroth say/do.
I'm so old.
(...I'm 32.)
Don't misunderstand me. Bad guys are only interesting in fiction because it's a safe place to explore our darkness without it hurting us. In real life I'm all for good people. And yes, you have a point that nowadays there are few true heroes (at least in Western media), only anti-heroes who end up doing the right thing just because the script writers thought of it, not because of the nobility of their hearts. Those who are genuinely good are, in turn, almost always put as the comic relief character and the friendzoned guy/gal.
But my point still stands, even though I didn't explaing myself better: I'm always rooting for the good guy to win but, again, heroes will only be as good as their dark counterpart. That's why I put so much weight on the villain of each story. Sephiroth, in the end, manipulates your party into doing his bidding, much like in later titles other villains would do (Caius, Ardyn...). That's not to say that I wish he did win in the end, or that he was a saint before going mad. The novella about Aerith in the Lifestream tells us that, when Sephiroth died, all his good parts merged with the Planet, while the bad emotions were the ones to remain merged with Jenova. Again, he was no saint, but a soldier working for a corporation which wanted to get power if that meant destroying their world. He was human, and that was made him so interesting in the end. How we fall? Why? Can we be redeemed after we get lost in the darkness?
And you are not old. Maybe to fall head over heels for a bishonen and whatever he might do (I overgrew that phase years ago), but you are still young.
Yeah, I'm older still...