SPOILERS FFVII Remake Frustration Expression Thread (*Open Spoilers*)

[null]

I watched Dunkeys video...uh because he's my main source of video game journalism ?

Real talk, is this guy credible on other topics? I'd never heard of him until reddit brought him up, I look up his FF7R review and it's subtitled "the Phantom Menace of video games". In my sincere opinion, that's a pretty awful take.

 

[oty]

He.....plays a lot of video games? He obviously has a lot of experience in game design and gaming history, but that's what a lot of "gamers" have in general.

It isnt an awful take. He has his opinion and his tastes. Nobody expected him to love the Remake.

 

[null]

Fair enough. I just wondered if he's like, for example, RedLetterMedia, someone who has a few notoriously polarizing reviews, but otherwise has some pretty good commentary.

 

[Odysseus]

Fair enough. I just wondered if he's like, for example, RedLetterMedia, someone who has a few notoriously polarizing reviews, but otherwise has some pretty good commentary.

I like most of his videos, though his sense of humor might be a bit of an acquired taste. I definitely disagree with some of his opinions on games though, especially his remake review.

 

[Smoothie King]

That's not even a little accurate.

Really? I was under the impression that its popularity in Japan is not what it once was. Coupled that with the fact that there are far more PS4s here than there are in Japan... anyone have any data?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I have no idea how or where you got that idea. Final Fantasy is consistently one of the highest rated games in Famitsu user polls and FFVII-R has made a 39/40 while generating one of the highest sales spikes for PS4 systems. Final Fantasy has been holding strong.

 

[Smoothie King]

I have no idea how or where you got that idea. Final Fantasy is consistently one of the highest rated games in Famitsu user polls and FFVII-R has made a 39/40 while generating one of the highest sales spikes for PS4 systems. Final Fantasy has been holding strong.

I'm not referring to the reverence within the video game community in Japan. I'm strictly talking about sales of the game itself.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm not referring to the reverence within the video game community in Japan. I'm strictly talking about sales of the game itself.

And the sales are strong as hell. FFXV made bank. There's nothing indicating a slump in sales for FF in of all places, Japan.

 

[oty]

Just to add on, there is no "slump". The game still sells well. But there is a difference right around the time post-XIII.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Just to add on, there is no "slump". The game still sells well. But there is a difference right around the time post-XIII.

I'm not sure what difference you mean. XIII sold 1.7 million copies in Japan alone. It was hugely successful and broke sales records during its time.

Each subsequent FF essentially surpasses the previous hence why it stays strong. XIII was the flag-bearer success of its time, hence why 2009 to 2014 was the Age of Lightning.

 

[Smoothie King]

And the sales are strong as hell. FFXV made bank. There's nothing indicating a slump in sales for FF in of all places, Japan.

Not denying that. It sold over a million between physical and digital in three days. That's amazing! But it also seems like that's right around where the ceiling is for Final Fantasy games in Japan these days. At the same time, we all know the Remake is going to eventually sell ten million copies. Thats a lot of copies outside of Japan. Which is why I said, I want the Ultimania over here, damnit!

 

[oty]

Yeah, I mean post-XIII. XIII sold 1.5M in FW in Japan, so it was a huge success. It was 1M in day one. I have seen some reports that FFVIIR passed 1million (in Japan), but still doesnt reach what XIII did in the same time period. So yeah, definitely post-XIII effect.

 

[Zee]

Aside from the ending (which, OOOOOFERS) something that really bugged me in early game is the feeling that Tifa kinda got shafted for Jessie. I get expanding on the Avalanche crew, but I felt like it came at the cost of giving Tifa's character space to breathe. For example, the scene on the train when the IDs get flagged? In the original Tifa gets to be cute and tell Cloud to watch her while she jumps off, but they changed it because now Jessie is the flirty thrill seeker and Tifa is....tutorial girl until Wall Market.

My bigger gripe: they made Sephiroth way less terrifying with the change to the Shrina scene. in the original, following the blood trail with the haunting soundtrack, leading up to seeing the president's body....it was so well done. and now it's like. glowing goo trail and 3 fake out deaths and also dementors are there for some reason. Alrighty.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, I mean post-XIII. XIII sold 1.5M in FW in Japan, so it was a huge success. It was 1M in day one. I have seen some reports that FFVIIR passed 1million (in Japan), but still doesnt reach what XIII did in the same time period. So yeah, definitely post-XIII effect.

We're not going to have a full picture of those sales figures until S-E releases their quarterly earnings report but given the fact that physical copies are essentially sold out and it made this much bank alone during a global pandemic, I seriously doubt that it was somehow unable to reach the same sales as XIII. The game is close behind XV's historic opening sales figures so that alone is pretty significant.

 

[Smoothie King]

Aside from the ending (which, OOOOOFERS) something that really bugged me in early game is the feeling that Tifa kinda got shafted for Jessie. I get expanding on the Avalanche crew, but I felt like it came at the cost of giving Tifa's character space to breathe. For example, the scene on the train when the IDs get flagged? In the original Tifa gets to be cute and tell Cloud to watch her while she jumps off, but they changed it because now Jessie is the flirty thrill seeker and Tifa is....tutorial girl until Wall Market.

My bigger gripe: they made Sephiroth way less terrifying with the change to the Shrina scene. in the original, following the blood trail with the haunting soundtrack, leading up to seeing the president's body....it was so well done. and now it's like. glowing goo trail and 3 fake out deaths and also dementors are there for some reason. Alrighty.

100% with you on that. I think Sephiroths involvement in the Shinra Building was much more effective in the original.

 

[oty]

And XV also sold less than XIII in it's FW. FFVIIR, from the reports, is also selling better than XV. Digital is really carrying it through, despite the shortage of physical copies. XV is also a tricky subject. They shipped 5million copies day one (worldwide) which is also a sale since retailers dont really give it back, but actual FW sales are closer to what FFVIIR has been selling. FFVIIR was actually better specially in it's subsequent week, due to a severe increase to digital sales in comparison to XV's. The pandemic is surely having a effect, but it's hard to really know which one.

FFVIIR is performing extremely well, and it will probably surpass XV's overall sales, but it still holds account to the effect the FF franchise is passing through after XIII, in Japan.

 

[Jairus]

Aside from the ending (which, OOOOOFERS) something that really bugged me in early game is the feeling that Tifa kinda got shafted for Jessie. I get expanding on the Avalanche crew, but I felt like it came at the cost of giving Tifa's character space to breathe. For example, the scene on the train when the IDs get flagged? In the original Tifa gets to be cute and tell Cloud to watch her while she jumps off, but they changed it because now Jessie is the flirty thrill seeker and Tifa is....tutorial girl until Wall Market.

Tifa had the entire last half of the game from Wall Market on, so she got plenty. I hope you're not begrudging Jessie her small chance to shine. She had stuff cut too, you know. Cleaning Cloud's face on the train, apologizing in the underplate for her special ID setting off the alarms, even being on the train for the second mission at all and getting to ask Cloud what he thought of her disguise. Making him his own special ID in the first place. We never got to see any of that in the remake.

 

[Odysseus]

I think you responded to the wrong person.

 

[Jairus]

Whoops, I meant to respond to Zee, my bad. Fixed it.

 

[chewbaka]

shipper bullshit

Spoiler

in the OG i hated both aerith and tifa in the beginning. but (at least how i saw it) because of aerith's more open way of showing her feelings, tifa got a clue and didn't really try to express hers because she knew she'd be too shy to be as flirty as aerith. how i came to like tifa more was that by making that choice, she instead focused on other things. the planet, the cast (her friends) and cloud's mental health and a friend, instead as a childhood crush. by pushing down her feelings for part of the game, she realised that she actually had a lot on her plate and made good work of it. and when the story pushed further, she had a chance to finally, safely reveal her feelings and that was just so great. it's the #1 appeal to cloti for me and how i came to love them.

but with 7R, the "hints" with cloti are so hard hitting, it grated on my nerves; at this point they're not even hints but hard, wet slaps of obvious clues. the most egregious of this was inside the bombing mission with tifa, and whenever she said anything cloud was right there "I think you're awesome" and all of his mini praises. all of these added up to obnoxious to me and i really wanted it to stop. it's not that i don't understand why they're doing this, but it's just not the right way to do it.

and as for tifa, they kinda switched the roles from the OG. aerith cares way more of cloud's wellbeing to the point that it appears platonic, and tifa appears to always be 10 seconds away from confessing her feelings whenever she's around cloud. to wrap all this up, TLDR they are rushing my favorite aspect of cloti and i don't like mostly any of it. at some times, the subtlety hits nicely, but for the most part i don't think i can get behind how they're doing them this time around. i don't think it will be done in future titles but personally, they should really slow down on the relationship of cloud and tifa. you have lots of time to unravel their feelings guys, trust me.

 

[Eerie]

shipper bullshit

Spoiler

in the OG i hated both aerith and tifa in the beginning. but (at least how i saw it) because of aerith's more open way of showing her feelings, tifa got a clue and didn't really try to express hers because she knew she'd be too shy to be as flirty as aerith. how i came to like tifa more was that by making that choice, she instead focused on other things. the planet, the cast (her friends) and cloud's mental health and a friend, instead as a childhood crush. by pushing down her feelings for part of the game, she realised that she actually had a lot on her plate and made good work of it. and when the story pushed further, she had a chance to finally, safely reveal her feelings and that was just so great. it's the #1 appeal to cloti for me and how i came to love them.

but with 7R, they "hints" with cloti are so hard hitting, it grated on my nerves; at this point they're not even hints but hard, wet slaps of obvious clues. the most egregious of this was inside the bombing mission with tifa, and whenever she said anything cloud was right there "I think you're awesome" and all of his mini praises. all of these added up to obnoxious to me and i really wanted it to stop. it's not that i don't understand why they're doing this, but it's just not the right way to do it.

and as for tifa, they kinda switched the roles from the OG. aerith cares way more of cloud's wellbeing to the point that it appears platonic, and tifa appears to always be 10 seconds away from confessing her feelings whenever she's around cloud. to wrap all this up, TLDR they are rushing my favorite aspect of cloti and i don't like mostly any of it. at some times, the subtlety hits nicely, but for the most part i don't think i can get behind how they're doing them this time around. i don't think it will be done in future titles but personally, they should really slow down on the relationship of cloud and tifa. you have lots of time to unravel their feelings guys, trust me.

Well,

Spoiler

Don't forget several points; first, in the Midgard part, there was very little cloti in the OG, because cloti is a slow burn that develops later. However, since they were focusing on Midgard only, they had to up the number of scenes for cloti, especially since they wanted the girls to have even scenes with Cloud now. And Tifa is nicely expanded on, as we can see her doubts, but still going on missions to help Avalanche, to finally crying on Cloud's shoulder because of the massive loss they both had. Also I do think that their scene in ch14 was excessively well done and represents the ship in the best way it could.

Second, for everything Cloud says, remember: he is 16 in his head. He was written that way, with care by Nojima. He is 16 and trying to put on a front, but with Tifa, that facade tends to loosen, hence why he looks like a puppy sometimes with her. I think that once you get that, it goes "ohhhhh that explains sooooooo many things".

Third, they also expanded on Aerith and chose to have her know more than what she did in the OG (seemingly, at least). So her reactions to Cloud actually reflect that.

Given the number of fans who love cloti, they couldn't, and won't be able to "tone it down", especially since this time around, I do feel that they're giving it ground, unlike the OG, for the things that happen after Aerith's death can look more smooth and credible. All in all, I do find cloti to be STILL a slow burn BTW, compared to clerith. Even with Aerith's new reactions. That said maybe you should post that in the FC or the new coke LTD thread. It would be some nice discussion, me think.

 

[Jairus]

Spoiler

I liked the content we got for the Avalanche trio, I just wish we'd have gotten more of it. The game yanked us away from them right when they left us wanting more. Surely the time between the two reactor missions could've been expanded so there could've been more to do with them, maybe even a solo mission with Cloud and Jessie (since Aerith got two whole chapters all by herself with him, and Chapter 3 was mostly just Cloud and Tifa). They could've added a delay in between the train graveyard and the pillar battle, setting the plate drop for a few days later instead of right when Cloud and the girls get back. That way we could've done more with the trio before the plate drop.

We never got to see much of Cloud interacting with Jessie post-warming (which didn't happen until the later half of Chapter 4). I think his reactions to her would've been much different by that point as time went on. The little smile he gives her as he picks her up (and him picking her up and carrying her in the first place), plus his words of encouragement to her and agreeing to cause havoc for her on the Reactor 5 mission, were all nice and a pleasant way of showing how his attitude and demeanor toward her had softened.

Hopefully, if she comes back in Part 2 and beyond, we'll see more of that, maybe even her being developed into a viable third option (and second choice once Aerith is gone). It would make perfect sense, given her history, for Jessie to have a Gold Saucer date of her own with Cloud just like the other girls. And having her as part of the mix would allow us the chance to still have a choice after Aerith's gone instead of Cloti being forced, which wasn't even done in the OG (you could have just a friendship version of the Highwind scene instead if her affection was low enough). For the remake, if Jessie's a part of the mix, the scene under the Highwind could be made to take place with whichever girl has the higher affection.

 

[Clean Cut Chaos]

Been watching reviews. Someone asked the question if they should play the OG FF7 to understand this game as they were left very confused by many things, especially the ending. The answer from the panel and the entire scrolling comments where a resounding YES absolutely.

One reply to this yes response was "but the graphics though." I found that interesting because the purpose of a remake is to modernize the look and gameplay for a new generation that would be turned off by the older version. A remake requiring one to play the game it is meant to be replacing is fascinating conundrum I'm going to dub a Catch 77.

 

[Theozilla]

I mean that catch likely will only exist while the Remake project is incomplete. As when the future installments come out the full story and mysteries will be explained and (hopefully) answered.
It’s like someone immediately going to read the TLOTR books after the first Fellowship movie came out, because they want to understand the full plot asap (albeit TLOTR admittedly didn’t utilize mystery plot elements between each book as much as the Remake is currently doing).

 

[oty]

I dont really understand people who say that. This game has mysteries. Mysteries will be answered in the next installments. It's one big project, not one game.

You play the original, of course you are gonna get less confused. You will literally spoil yourself. And playing the original will still not help with plenty of things that are meant to be mysteries to people who already played the OG, aka the ending.

This Remake also isnt attempting to just overrule the original by modernizing everything. It's trying to create a different version of the history so people can appreciate both. That comes out of Nomura's mouths. He doesnt want the Original to be forgotten in any way.