SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Makoeyes987]

A friend of mine who didn't play VII before who played to that moment thought they were a random mascot or FF summon and thought it was fascinating that Espers were lamenting so many lives returning to the Lifestream

 

[looneymoon]

I think I had a few drinks when I initially played that part so I went, "heeeeeey I know that guy!!!" and felt very ~seen~ so it did not occur to me how silly it was coming across =P

 

[Lulcielid]

I rolled my eyes when Caith showed up on screen, and internally screamed:

"Nomura, this character means something only to the fans of og VII, he means nothing within the context of 7Remake story, you dumbass!"

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think I had a few drinks when I initially played that part so I went, "heeeeeey I know that guy!!!" and felt very ~seen~ so it did not occur to me how silly it was coming across =P

Haven't you always been "scene," tho

 

[looneymoon]

Haven't you always been "scene," tho

fuckin' rude lmfao you bitch

aging emos who love ff7 is a very good idea for a Facebook page

 

[Smoothie King]

Well, I feel vindicated in my assessment that Cait Sith's random-ass appearance during the Sector 7 platefall was an absolute misfire. My fianceé has been watching my playthrough from the beginning (skipping out on my leveling sessions -- or "item whoring," as she calls it), and she was really into the drama and tension of the whole pillar sequence ... until the fucking fairy cat rolled out.

She just went "... What?" Pulled her right out of it.

It's the only scene in the entire game (besides the ending, of course) where it seems like the developers literally forgot that there will be people playing it that never played the original. I marked out for it, obviously, but it wasn't the best time/place for it.

 

[Wol]

Is it really that bad? He just appears for some seconds, not affecting the plot in any form.

I would rather have 1000 Cait Sith as npcs than 2 of those goofy ghosts, anyday.

 

[oty]

Doesn't have to affect the plot tho. It affects a scene, an extremely important one, in a very bad way (not for everyone, but still a lot of people).

I would rather have 1000 Cait Sith as npcs than 2 of those goofy ghosts, anyday.

It's not that it's because of Cait Sith that it sucks. It does plays a part on it, but it isn't the sole factor.

In fact, a Cait Sith NPC lamenting the Platefall would arguably be 100x better than what we got, and might actually have been cool.

 

[Smoothie King]

Is it really that bad? He just appears for some seconds, not affecting the plot in any form.

I would rather have 1000 Cait Sith as npcs than 2 of those goofy ghosts, anyday.

I think it's more an example of an abrupt tonal difference if you haven't played the original. As fans of FFVII, we understand that Cait Sith represents Reeve's anguish over the mass casualties at the hands of his employer. For someone with no prior reference point, we go from seeing an event on the level of September 11th and then cut to an anthropomorphic cat banging his hands on the ground. It doesn't fit with what we are seeing from a visual perspective.

 

[Kratos]

Part of the problem with the Cait Sith bit is that the game doesn't introduce him in any way prior to the scene, and he doesn't even show up later on, making the whole big focus on him seem like a bizarre non-sequitur in the middle of a serious moment.

A little background easter egg of Cait Sith watching/lamenting, without any sort of real cinematic focus, would have worked great! But giving focus implies meaning, and the game does not imbue Cait Sith with meaning of any kind, so it's jarring.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm sure it would take newbies out of it, and was therefore likely not a good decision. But I'm not a newbie, so it didn't take me out of it

 

[kathy202]

She just went "... What?" Pulled her right out of it.

That happened to me too. Just when my husband who's never played the original before was starting to be engrossed by the bunch battles leading up to an epic boss fight ... this happened.

Square Enix... why??

 

[KetaKitty]

Cait's appearance made me spoil Cait's identity to my cousin on accident, given I thought he remembered as he played the OG... long ago. He asked me "Why is Cait here?!" (His appearance threw him way off) and I replied freely about Reeve and my theory on it. So, the premature and unexplained appearance may have ruined that plot point within the game for more curious people than just my cousin.

 

[Ite]

Just replayed Chapter 12 on hard mode, so this Cait Sith discussion is timely. I thought I might enjoy a replay more, and for a few early chapters that was the case. There are portents of troubled writing throughout the first 10 chapters, lots of tedious busywork that I don't think serves the game, but Chapter 12 is where this game really jumps the shark for me. There's a clear smile-to-frown journey throughout this chapter that just culminates with the platedrop... My first playthrough, I had a little voice in my head shouting "Let them finish!" but now that I know what's ahead, I just hang my head...

 

[LegendarySaiyan]

Actually Cait Sith is suppose to appear way before that. In the Original, we see Cait Sith for the first time in Honey Bee Inn in Lovers Room where Reeves parents are staying. (Very easy to miss)

I guess their reason for showing Cait Sith in the collapse scene rather than Honey Bee Inn is because it stands more out. Also to make new players question who that is and by the time they finish the game they will surely understand that he will appear in the next game. Nobody shows a random character just like that to never appear later on. When Cait Sith appears in the Gold Saucer, new players will go like "I know this character, it is the one when the Sector 7 Plate collapsed". It will have a better effect.

 

[Smoothie King]

Actually Cait Sith is suppose to appear way before that. In the Original, we see Cait Sith for the first time in Honey Bee Inn in Lovers Room where Reeves parents are staying. (Very easy to miss)

I guess their reason for showing Cait Sith in the collapse scene rather than Honey Bee Inn is because it stands more out. Also to make new players question who that is and by the time they finish the game they will surely understand that he will appear in the next game. Nobody shows a random character just like that to never appear later on. When Cait Sith appears in the Gold Saucer, new players will go like "I know this character, it is the one when the Sector 7 Plate collapsed". It will have a better effect.

That has always bothered me. What kind of pervert is Reeve, spying on his parents on their anniversary in a brothel house's "lovers room"!?

 

[ForceStealer]

I assume he wasn't actually in direct control at the time, and that Cait Sith was there more to make sure something didn't happen to them.

Obviously the actual answer is it was just an easter egg for us and no one put that thought into it

 

[LegendarySaiyan]

I wonder if they will change what Cait Sith is in the REMAKE, like a self-aware AI with its own personality who collects data and sends it to Reeve instead of Reeve directly controlling it.

IIRC Reeve was always in control of Cait Sith which would not make sense since it is with us 24/7. Please correct me if I am remembering it wrong

 

[oty]

Actually Cait Sith is suppose to appear way before that. In the Original, we see Cait Sith for the first time in Honey Bee Inn in Lovers Room where Reeves parents are staying. (Very easy to miss)

I guess their reason for showing Cait Sith in the collapse scene rather than Honey Bee Inn is because it stands more out. Also to make new players question who that is and by the time they finish the game they will surely understand that he will appear in the next game. Nobody shows a random character just like that to never appear later on. When Cait Sith appears in the Gold Saucer, new players will go like "I know this character, it is the one when the Sector 7 Plate collapsed". It will have a better effect.

Even if they did "have a plan" for showing up Cait at that scene, which is arguable since he literally only appears for 2 seconds which almost puts him in the Easter Egg department, the timing could not possibly be worse. It directly makes a scene bad, a pretty important one at that, and they had a 40hour campaign and about a dozen diferrent locations to put it somewhere else.

"A good set up doesnt have to make any scene better, but it should not make any scene worse". As Jessie would say, words to live by.

I wonder if they will change what Cait Sith is in the REMAKE, like a self-aware AI with its own personality who collects data and sends it to Reeve instead of Reeve directly controlling it.

IIRC Reeve was always in control of Cait Sith which would not make sense since it is with us 24/7. Please correct me if I am remembering it wrong

I hope they do. Cait Sith is one of my biggest gripes with the Original, so I'm expecting big things from Square about him.

 

[ForceStealer]

I wonder if they will change what Cait Sith is in the REMAKE, like a self-aware AI with its own personality who collects data and sends it to Reeve instead of Reeve directly controlling it.

IIRC Reeve was always in control of Cait Sith which would not make sense since it is with us 24/7. Please correct me if I am remembering it wrong

The game itself never explicitly said, although I would argue it implied he only sometimes took direct control and other times it ran autonomously.

Of course the canon explanation from outside materials (the Ultimania) says it is a plush animal that Reeve willed to life with his nonsense "Inspire" ability but does effectively mean that it's alive with it's own will and Reeve can just tap into it directly when he needs to.

 

[LNK]

Even if they did "have a plan" for showing up Cait at that scene, which is arguable since he literally only appears for 2 seconds which almost puts him in the Easter Egg department, the timing could not possibly be worse.

I think walking by him in Shinra HQ would've been a much better idea

 

[looneymoon]

The game itself never explicitly said, although I would argue it implied he only sometimes took direct control and other times it ran autonomously.

Of course the canon explanation from outside materials (the Ultimania) says it is a plush animal that Reeve willed to life with his nonsense "Inspire" ability but does effectively mean that it's alive with it's own will and Reeve can just tap into it directly when he needs to.

I always imagined him putting on a voice over cell phone, while hiding in one of the toilet stalls in Shinra HQ.

You know weirder stuff goes on in those toilets.

 

[Ite]

Cait Sith would often be “idle” on the bridge of the Highwind, and when he “woke up” the equipment would go haywire — presumably because of radio interference from Reeve? Cait Sith is a huge problem with FF7 on the whole, but I’m not sure the solution is “have him interrupt the plate drop” smh

 

[ForceStealer]

Often... did that happen more than once? I'm only remembering when he came back after Cloud's "find your purpose" speech. But even if it was a sentient AI that Reeve can assume direct control of, it makes sense enough that he could also turn it off completely.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The game itself never explicitly said, although I would argue it implied he only sometimes took direct control and other times it ran autonomously.

Of course the canon explanation from outside materials (the Ultimania) says it is a plush animal that Reeve willed to life with his nonsense "Inspire" ability but does effectively mean that it's alive with it's own will and Reeve can just tap into it directly when he needs to.

Ironically enough, the "Inspire" thing seems rather at odds with the portrayal in BC, where the damn thing is explicitly a robot with an autonomous AI which Reeve can take direct control of.

I'm beginning to wonder if the "magical" ability that is "Inspire" is just supposed to be read as "ignorant term for 'someone with a talent for writing AI' by people on a planet who are super used to robots, but aren't used to their robots having personality or genuine intellect."