Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Good. That's how a story about meddling with timelines should be.
SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Lex
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Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
It's also the kind of stories the dev team likes writing!
YMMV on if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
YMMV on if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
When you explain it that way, anything can sound convoluted really. Old world, bad ending. New world, worse ending. Either go back to old world, or find better one. I’m a huge fan of Steins;Gate so I guess I’m desensitized to hyper-convoluted time wankery. ?
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
When you explain it that way, anything can sound convoluted really. Old world, bad ending. New world, worse ending. Either go back to old world, or find better one. I’m a huge fan of Steins;Gate so I guess I’m desensitized to hyper-convoluted time wankery. ?
I love Stein's Gate as well. I don't love it chewing the scenery of something that's already a hybrid of Robocop, The Thing and Total Recall. A time travel plot sucks if it isn't given room to breathe, it sucks if it's only used to patch up the story, and it sucks if it violates its own rules because the writers don't take it seriously. The time travel stories that don't suck (Stein's Gate, Primer, Azkaban, FF8) take their fiction seriously. There are also time travel stories that suck, but are fun, like BttF, Heroes (S1) and Looper, but Remake's time travel is neither fun nor can it be taken seriously. It's just hucked at us for meta reasons -- to add a boss fight here, explain away something else there, and to literally bring back a main party member from the dead just to shock us. It's dumb, and it will continue to dumben the more they lean into it. Because I don't trust them to write something as cohesive as Stein's Gate, or as moving as Looper. Or hell, FF8. That's just not the kind of product they specialize in... it's been that way for almost two decades.
So now we're trapped between a rock and a hard place. If they don't follow through on this idiotic promise, future parts will feel like some kind of surrender, and the project will limp to the finish line. If they DO decide to follow through, they'll be pulling yet more focus from what made FF7 likeable in the first place to waste our time on a half-baked tt story, the project will still limp to the finish line, except now it has too many parts and keeps pissing us off.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Disagree. It'll just feel like the remake it should have been with an odd fever dream in first act.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
Just out of curiosity, did you all even want a remake? I didn't, so the only
For old fans who don't like the remake, I'm not just going to say "why do you even care if the remake is weird when the original still exists." Ultimately more FFVII discourse than not is going to surround the remake from now on, so that'll unavoidably impact you regardless. I guess I'm wondering, is that really all that concerns you though? That the conversation will be inevitably altered the more the Remake drifts from the original? Is there some fear of getting left behind in a sea of new discussion? I dunno, maybe I'm small-minded, but that's the only reason I can think of.
The way I see it, if it was just going to be the same story with prettier visuals they should have done an OOT 3D and just updated the graphics while mostly leaving everything else alone. That'd be cheap, I think most people would be happy with it, and that's the treatment other FF games have gotten. However, that wouldn't live up to the expectations people have had for the past decade+ about what a "Final Fantasy VII" remake would be like.
Really, you've all been fucked from the day that that scummy PS3 demo got shown off. That put the image of AAA fully realized FFVII in peoples heads. If it was gonna be the same plot Square would have just done a remaster like I mentioned above, but if they're gonna go all out things have to be different. There's no way they could justify it otherwise. Not for how many games it's gonna take, not for how much money they're dumping into it. You should know that, you're all familiar with these people at this point, you know they're a bunch of weirdos with weird ideas who would definitely be unsatisfied with just retreading old ground just because you all don't want change. The "not specifically you guys in this thread but a more generalized 'you' refering to the larger FFVII community" dug this hole for yourselves inch by inch with every FFVII REMAKE rumor and wishlist, every time you asked the developers if they'd do it, every time you showed how much interest there was for it, every time square enix couldn't escape the shadow of a decades old PS1 game.
So I'll say again, did you all even want a remake? Because you got a fucking "REMAKE," built from the ground up as if it were a new game with a new plot and a whole load of new things to worry about, and you should have know it wouldn't be any other way.
"The promise has been made" mother fuckers.
*mic drop*
POTATO OUT!
is no remake at all as far as I'm concerned. Graphics aside the original holds up just fine, all I would want is a new English localization so the plot is more comprehensible. That's all the new FFVII that was ever necessary, but so many people wanted so much more.
For old fans who don't like the remake, I'm not just going to say "why do you even care if the remake is weird when the original still exists." Ultimately more FFVII discourse than not is going to surround the remake from now on, so that'll unavoidably impact you regardless. I guess I'm wondering, is that really all that concerns you though? That the conversation will be inevitably altered the more the Remake drifts from the original? Is there some fear of getting left behind in a sea of new discussion? I dunno, maybe I'm small-minded, but that's the only reason I can think of.
The way I see it, if it was just going to be the same story with prettier visuals they should have done an OOT 3D and just updated the graphics while mostly leaving everything else alone. That'd be cheap, I think most people would be happy with it, and that's the treatment other FF games have gotten. However, that wouldn't live up to the expectations people have had for the past decade+ about what a "Final Fantasy VII" remake would be like.
Really, you've all been fucked from the day that that scummy PS3 demo got shown off. That put the image of AAA fully realized FFVII in peoples heads. If it was gonna be the same plot Square would have just done a remaster like I mentioned above, but if they're gonna go all out things have to be different. There's no way they could justify it otherwise. Not for how many games it's gonna take, not for how much money they're dumping into it. You should know that, you're all familiar with these people at this point, you know they're a bunch of weirdos with weird ideas who would definitely be unsatisfied with just retreading old ground just because you all don't want change. The "not specifically you guys in this thread but a more generalized 'you' refering to the larger FFVII community" dug this hole for yourselves inch by inch with every FFVII REMAKE rumor and wishlist, every time you asked the developers if they'd do it, every time you showed how much interest there was for it, every time square enix couldn't escape the shadow of a decades old PS1 game.
So I'll say again, did you all even want a remake? Because you got a fucking "REMAKE," built from the ground up as if it were a new game with a new plot and a whole load of new things to worry about, and you should have know it wouldn't be any other way.
"The promise has been made" mother fuckers.
*mic drop*
POTATO OUT!
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Tim Rogers had a great rant about the impossibility of FFVII Remake, how it can't not be dead in the water. I don't agree with your assertion that it had to be different, at least, not as different as it is, because they killed Barret and brought him back to life.
But I mean, at this point I'm here for the salty lol's and fanart
But I mean, at this point I'm here for the salty lol's and fanart
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
Would a Remake even exist if the creators didn’t think they could do anything new with it? My impression of the interviews that I read is that the creators had no interest in simply retelling the old story
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
okay that was pretty stupid.
I'm not saying it needed to be exactly how it is, but it was never going to be the same.
crazyrabbits23
yes.
- AKA
- Alex
Yep, this.
If a company is going to put $100 million-plus into what is ostensibly just the same game with prettier graphics, I'd rather they save their money and put it towards a new mainline FF title.
I want a new FF7 experience. If I just wanted to play the story again, I'd just reinstall the original and do a couple of variant runs. I'm excited to see where they take things in the next part.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Right, that's why this should have been called a Sequel and not a Remake. There are two types of people who were hyped about the FF7 Remake: people who wanted something new and people who wanted something definitive. I'm obviously firmly in the latter camp. And I mean it when I say that Roche and Marle and the Trio and Jessie's parents and the kids in Sector 5 have a welcome place in a definitive replacement for FF7. That shit was good ideas, it rides that line between respecting the original and providing a novel experience -- I'm shocked to say that Roche pleases damn near everyone (especially his bike). What part of that wasn't new enough that y'all still feel the need to justify meta-narrative time ghosts? It's a bridge too far, it doesn't respect the original, and it makes it impossible to recommend for those who are put off by the OG's extreme datedness -- one of the main reasons ppl like me in that second camp wanted a remake to begin with: something to share that lives up to modern standards.
I've said it before, but if this were marketed as a time travelling sequel from the getgo, what controversy there was would have lasted as long as those whinging that it was being split into parts. "Where's our true remake?" "Never coming, enjoy this sequel" would be the honest approach. Instead, we get "Where's our true remake?" "This is it! You must not know what the word remake means." Which is gaslighting.
I've said it before, but if this were marketed as a time travelling sequel from the getgo, what controversy there was would have lasted as long as those whinging that it was being split into parts. "Where's our true remake?" "Never coming, enjoy this sequel" would be the honest approach. Instead, we get "Where's our true remake?" "This is it! You must not know what the word remake means." Which is gaslighting.
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Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
This is what I don't understand. What's wrong with the game how it was that you even wanted a "replacement?"
Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
Everybody can see this? Good.
Some people are talking about Remake using the first definition of the word, and others are using the second one.
You're not talking about the same thing and this discussion is going round in circles.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Because it's old and pixellated and doesn't have analog support and the translation is terrible and Tifa calls Barret retarded? I could go on, but essentially, I love FF7 because it's lovable to me, but there's just no way it deserves to be lost to the annals of time, only replayed by old fans, while stories that are less deserving are widespread because they look nice. It's easy to facelift a PS3-or-later game, that's why Skyrim and GTA V show up on every console. FF7 OG also comes around, but we all know it's only us buying it again. Why not have a modern looking game with a kickass battle system and a classic story of rebellion and identity? We got a tub full of that, but at the last second they threw a live toaster in there.
Except 7R falls under neither definition. It's like saying you're remaking a sourdough loaf and throwing time travelling ghosts in it!! Or you're remaking Gone With the Wind but instead of glorifying slave ownership you have time travelling ghosts in it!!
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
I mean, I played the original for the first time in 2013. I was friggen born three months after it came out. I also know others who only played it recently too. The game has issues, sure, but it holds up fine. I don't see how it would really benefit from analogue control either, the maps aren't very complex.
Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
That would fall under the second definition. FF7R is a Remake made with the second definition in mind.
Sorry if it wasn't what you wanted, SE wanted to try something different and they spoiled the bread for you but some people actually liked it because it was different from the bread they had before.
OG:
Remake:
The oats are the time ghosts.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Nothing to say to that but yup. You're totally right.
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
For the record, I didn't want a remake
But like, what I don't understand this polarizing mindset that dislike for stuff in this remake comes from an unwillingness for change? I dont understand why that always becomes the focus of this conversation, because it completely strawmans the issues people bring up.
I don't think " fear of change" or " well "it's different so you don't like it" are fair descriptors for the problems people are having.
But like, what I don't understand this polarizing mindset that dislike for stuff in this remake comes from an unwillingness for change? I dont understand why that always becomes the focus of this conversation, because it completely strawmans the issues people bring up.
I don't think " fear of change" or " well "it's different so you don't like it" are fair descriptors for the problems people are having.
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
Pretty sure the creators are actively against the idea of Remake being some kind of definitive replacement to the original, hence why the Remake even exists in the first place. I can definitely see how from a creator’s point of view, revisiting old work could be unsatisfying unless you have something new that can be done with it.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Again, that's why I found the stuff with Marle and Roche and Chadley and Jessie and the Trio so inspired. I was loving this game before it jumped the shark, and it did so harder than I've ever seen anything do.
Accusations that I didn't want anything to change or that I just wanted a warm nostalgia blanket totally strawman me. edit: ninja'd by looneymoon
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
Just say Pride and Prejudice and Zombies
FF7 and Time Travel wishes it could pull that off
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
Seemed pretty par for the course to me considering how ridiculous the original game is, though there’s only so much I think we can judge considering the story isn’t even over
Not that I think you’re accusing me of anything, but technically that statement would also be a strawman if nobody here accused you of that in the first place. But never mind that, I’m really interested to know how you would have handled the Whispers (and not just getting rid of them altogether).
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
It would be like going to a movie called Pride and Prejudice and getting Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. Like, I'm totally baffled why people don't understand the upset? lolJust say Pride and Prejudice and Zombies
FF7 and Time Travel wishes it could pull that off
You are a unique spud and I wish there were more out there like you.
Totally wasn't directed at you, or anyone in this discussion in particular, it's just the most common counter-criticism of anything levelled at the game.
Hoo let me tell you----!
Damnit.
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KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
It definitely is for some but of course, not everybody
I played both OG and Remake for the first time about 3 months ago and loved them both, though I definitely don’t expect everybody to feel the same. I think the fear of the unknown tends to make people overlook that most of the game up until that point was still remade pretty faithfully.