SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

Obsidian Fire

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
The thing with the Whispers is that while they can are defeated "now" they weren't defeated "back then". And a good chunk of the backstory of FFVII is all told in flashbacks.

So I think there's a lot of potential to use the flashbacks to show what kind of influence the Whispers had in the past. And that scares the hell out of me because changing up the "why" of the FFVII story effects the overall tone of it a lot.
 
Lestat

Lestat

He/him
AKA
Ergo, V
The fact that you defeating the big boss then affected the past to a point it was visible to Zack kinda incites that time is irrelevant or there are separate realities.

Who knows maybe it's a new way of showing a game+ mode and once you complete all the iterations of the remake you can start again as Zack trying to save his buddy with severe mako poisoning.

I fucking hope not........ but then again crazier things have happened with the remake.
 
Torrie

Torrie

astray ay-ay-ay
I don't know where else to bring it. If any of these predictions come true (which I don't think they will, honestly, but let our imagination run wild), it will be the most incredible meta narrative I could ever imagine in the FF7 lore.

TL;DW:
- Zack is a samurai and an embodiment of the Bushido code;
- Zack and Aerith are guardians of the planet;
- The planet brings Zack back to life to protect itself from Sephiroth;
- Zack was alive the entire time during Part 1;
- He had his reasons not to show up early and to act behind the scenes;
- Zack is Stamp (MIND = BLOWN);
- It was he who rescued Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie;
- It was he who linked Wutai and Avalanche;
- Kunsel might still be working for Shinra BECAUSE Zack is alive.

 
Cat on Mars

Cat on Mars

Actually not a cat
Yes, just what we need, Zack having a hand on everything again.
Did you think that Aerith's ribbon was her idea? Surprise! It was Zack's!
Did you believed that 7th Heaven was Tifa's idea? Surprise! It was Zack's!

And more pointless shit was Zack's idea too, he was the Forrest Gump of FFVII.
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
You see, Zack wasn't a man, not really.

The lifestream has many functions, to bring life, bring death, and rebirth. Past. Present. Future. The end. It was all part of a larger cycle, the cycle that was existence. However, there was a certain current of that great flow that served another purpose.

In every story there is an antagonist, one who seeks to bring chaos and ruin to all who live, and so too must there be a counterbalance to right the wrongs, undo the evils and to ultimately bring about FREEDOM. To make the world more FAIR.

That was this current's function, this current that was Zack Fair. The hero of this story.

Freedom has a price, and Zack had paid it, but fate works in funny ways. With an explosion of golden light, that debt was postponed, and Zack's mission had only truly just begun. The story had certain beats it hat to hit, so Zack was forced to operate covertly, but his was a strong current, so such limitations would not stop the flow.

He would save those doomed to perish, correct all the world's suffering.

He was Zack Fair.

Man.

Stream.

Hero.

Unnecessary plot device.

And he could not be stopped.
 
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C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
I have a mild aversion to the Whispers because the whole 'break free from your fate' deal is the same drum that Final Fantasy has been beating ever since FFX, but mostly I thought they were hilarious.

They can't, I hope, undo their defeat, so what I'm hoping for is a 'defeating them was a really bad idea because of thing F' going forward.
 
KindOfBlue

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Clement Rage said:
They can't, I hope, undo their defeat, so what I'm hoping for is a 'defeating them was a really bad idea because of thing F' going forward.
Click to expand...
That’s how I took it. Sure, we beat the Whispers and defied fate but in doing so, have we just given Sephiroth/Jenova exactly what they wanted? Have we condemned ourselves to a future far worse than one we already know? Next time on Dragon Ball Z...
 
Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Going that way might just make things even more convoluted, though.

"Changing the bad fate to a good fate was actually a bad thing now we have to change the really bad fate we've got now back to the bad fate we had before or the new fate's gonna be even more bad than it was before we changed the old fate to the new fate."

Cloud: "Uh... run that by me again?"
 
KindOfBlue

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
When you explain it that way, anything can sound convoluted really. Old world, bad ending. New world, worse ending. Either go back to old world, or find better one. I’m a huge fan of Steins;Gate so I guess I’m desensitized to hyper-convoluted time wankery. ?‍♂️
 
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Ite

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
KindOfBlue said:
When you explain it that way, anything can sound convoluted really. Old world, bad ending. New world, worse ending. Either go back to old world, or find better one. I’m a huge fan of Steins;Gate so I guess I’m desensitized to hyper-convoluted time wankery. ?‍♂️
Click to expand...

I love Stein's Gate as well. I don't love it chewing the scenery of something that's already a hybrid of Robocop, The Thing and Total Recall. A time travel plot sucks if it isn't given room to breathe, it sucks if it's only used to patch up the story, and it sucks if it violates its own rules because the writers don't take it seriously. The time travel stories that don't suck (Stein's Gate, Primer, Azkaban, FF8) take their fiction seriously. There are also time travel stories that suck, but are fun, like BttF, Heroes (S1) and Looper, but Remake's time travel is neither fun nor can it be taken seriously. It's just hucked at us for meta reasons -- to add a boss fight here, explain away something else there, and to literally bring back a main party member from the dead just to shock us. It's dumb, and it will continue to dumben the more they lean into it. Because I don't trust them to write something as cohesive as Stein's Gate, or as moving as Looper. Or hell, FF8. That's just not the kind of product they specialize in... it's been that way for almost two decades.

So now we're trapped between a rock and a hard place. If they don't follow through on this idiotic promise, future parts will feel like some kind of surrender, and the project will limp to the finish line. If they DO decide to follow through, they'll be pulling yet more focus from what made FF7 likeable in the first place to waste our time on a half-baked tt story, the project will still limp to the finish line, except now it has too many parts and keeps pissing us off.
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
Just out of curiosity, did you all even want a remake? I didn't, so the only
ForceStealer said:
remake it should have been
Click to expand...
is no remake at all as far as I'm concerned. Graphics aside the original holds up just fine, all I would want is a new English localization so the plot is more comprehensible. That's all the new FFVII that was ever necessary, but so many people wanted so much more.

For old fans who don't like the remake, I'm not just going to say "why do you even care if the remake is weird when the original still exists." Ultimately more FFVII discourse than not is going to surround the remake from now on, so that'll unavoidably impact you regardless. I guess I'm wondering, is that really all that concerns you though? That the conversation will be inevitably altered the more the Remake drifts from the original? Is there some fear of getting left behind in a sea of new discussion? I dunno, maybe I'm small-minded, but that's the only reason I can think of.

The way I see it, if it was just going to be the same story with prettier visuals they should have done an OOT 3D and just updated the graphics while mostly leaving everything else alone. That'd be cheap, I think most people would be happy with it, and that's the treatment other FF games have gotten. However, that wouldn't live up to the expectations people have had for the past decade+ about what a "Final Fantasy VII" remake would be like.

Really, you've all been fucked from the day that that scummy PS3 demo got shown off. That put the image of AAA fully realized FFVII in peoples heads. If it was gonna be the same plot Square would have just done a remaster like I mentioned above, but if they're gonna go all out things have to be different. There's no way they could justify it otherwise. Not for how many games it's gonna take, not for how much money they're dumping into it. You should know that, you're all familiar with these people at this point, you know they're a bunch of weirdos with weird ideas who would definitely be unsatisfied with just retreading old ground just because you all don't want change. The "not specifically you guys in this thread but a more generalized 'you' refering to the larger FFVII community" dug this hole for yourselves inch by inch with every FFVII REMAKE rumor and wishlist, every time you asked the developers if they'd do it, every time you showed how much interest there was for it, every time square enix couldn't escape the shadow of a decades old PS1 game.

So I'll say again, did you all even want a remake? Because you got a fucking "REMAKE," built from the ground up as if it were a new game with a new plot and a whole load of new things to worry about, and you should have know it wouldn't be any other way.

"The promise has been made" mother fuckers.

*mic drop*

POTATO OUT!
 
Ite

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
Tim Rogers had a great rant about the impossibility of FFVII Remake, how it can't not be dead in the water. I don't agree with your assertion that it had to be different, at least, not as different as it is, because they killed Barret and brought him back to life.

But I mean, at this point I'm here for the salty lol's and fanart :monster:
 
crazyrabbits23

crazyrabbits23

yes.
AKA
Alex
Odysseus said:
Just out of curiosity, did you all even want a remake? I didn't, so the only

is no remake at all as far as I'm concerned. Graphics aside the original holds up just fine, all I would want is a new English localization so the plot is more comprehensible. That's all the new FFVII that was ever necessary, but so many people wanted so much more.

For old fans who don't like the remake, I'm not just going to say "why do you even care if the remake is weird when the original still exists." Ultimately more FFVII discourse than not is going to surround the remake from now on, so that'll unavoidably impact you regardless. I guess I'm wondering, is that really all that concerns you though? That the conversation will be inevitably altered the more the Remake drifts from the original? Is there some fear of getting left behind in a sea of new discussion? I dunno, maybe I'm small-minded, but that's the only reason I can think of.

The way I see it, if it was just going to be the same story with prettier visuals they should have done an OOT 3D and just updated the graphics while mostly leaving everything else alone. That'd be cheap, I think most people would be happy with it, and that's the treatment other FF games have gotten. However, that wouldn't live up to the expectations people have had for the past decade+ about what a "Final Fantasy VII" remake would be like.

Really, you've all been fucked from the day that that scummy PS3 demo got shown off. That put the image of AAA fully realized FFVII in peoples heads. If it was gonna be the same plot Square would have just done a remaster like I mentioned above, but if they're gonna go all out things have to be different. There's no way they could justify it otherwise. Not for how many games it's gonna take, not for how much money they're dumping into it. You should know that, you're all familiar with these people at this point, you know they're a bunch of weirdos with weird ideas who would definitely be unsatisfied with just retreading old ground just because you all don't want change. The "not specifically you guys in this thread but a more generalized 'you' refering to the larger FFVII community" dug this hole for yourselves inch by inch with every FFVII REMAKE rumor and wishlist, every time you asked the developers if they'd do it, every time you showed how much interest there was for it, every time square enix couldn't escape the shadow of a decades old PS1 game.

So I'll say again, did you all even want a remake? Because you got a fucking "REMAKE," built from the ground up as if it were a new game with a new plot and a whole load of new things to worry about, and you should have know it wouldn't be any other way.

"The promise has been made" mother fuckers.

*mic drop*

POTATO OUT!
Click to expand...

Yep, this.

If a company is going to put $100 million-plus into what is ostensibly just the same game with prettier graphics, I'd rather they save their money and put it towards a new mainline FF title.

I want a new FF7 experience. If I just wanted to play the story again, I'd just reinstall the original and do a couple of variant runs. I'm excited to see where they take things in the next part.
 
Ite

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
Right, that's why this should have been called a Sequel and not a Remake. There are two types of people who were hyped about the FF7 Remake: people who wanted something new and people who wanted something definitive. I'm obviously firmly in the latter camp. And I mean it when I say that Roche and Marle and the Trio and Jessie's parents and the kids in Sector 5 have a welcome place in a definitive replacement for FF7. That shit was good ideas, it rides that line between respecting the original and providing a novel experience -- I'm shocked to say that Roche pleases damn near everyone (especially his bike). What part of that wasn't new enough that y'all still feel the need to justify meta-narrative time ghosts? It's a bridge too far, it doesn't respect the original, and it makes it impossible to recommend for those who are put off by the OG's extreme datedness -- one of the main reasons ppl like me in that second camp wanted a remake to begin with: something to share that lives up to modern standards.

I've said it before, but if this were marketed as a time travelling sequel from the getgo, what controversy there was would have lasted as long as those whinging that it was being split into parts. "Where's our true remake?" "Never coming, enjoy this sequel" would be the honest approach. Instead, we get "Where's our true remake?" "This is it! You must not know what the word remake means." Which is gaslighting.
 
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