SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Ite]

Call me cynical, but I don't know how you can see this kind of thing isn't motivated by wanting to create buzz on social media.

I mean, I don't believe that's exclusively what happened. The Barret death fake out was at least partly motivated by a design obligation to not have him in the party during the Jenova fight. And I think the whispers are at least somewhat an artistic expression of the writer's frustrations (read: tantrum) about how much the project will be scrutinized. Either way, it's outside-in writing.

Call me cynical, but I don't know how you can see this kind of thing isn't motivated by wanting to create buzz on social media.

It's why I am completely opposed to playing into theory-crafting around this title. I feel that by doing so, I am bending into the corporate side of this game - the side where the whole purpose is to generate perpetual buzz for the next title. With a story like FF7, I am sure all of you can understand why I find it all incredibly gross?

Mood, sister.

My significant other, who is not a big FF7 fan like I am (but has played all the games), says that if he knew the Compilation was relevant he probably would not even bothered wasting his time. I am sure this is true for many others who went into this without knowing any better.

I knew that at the last second they added some characters from the novels but at that point I'd played the demo and was over the moon hyped. I am not the Comp's most rabid detractor (shocking I know) but knowing that the writers explicitly place this entry as the latest in a series of FF7 titles instead of as a true entry point would have managed my expectations much better. Being branded as an entry point is a huge part of what I take issue with, and the arguments to the tune of "it has to be different" and "it's not meant to replace the OG" never seem to acknowledge this explicitly dubious aspect of the marketing.

Also, while I have nothing to add to their posts, I emphatically love everything @ForceStealer and @Obsidian Fire have said today.

 

[Makoeyes987]

An "entry point" is highly subjective and honestly more a function of the entry's overall quality and ability to hook it's audience into the world it's showcasing. Being an easy, tried-and-true method of introduction is actually not a requirement, otherwise there'd be plenty of series that would have died because they simply never gave themselves entry points that met that. One Piece, Dragonball, Jojo, Star Trek, the list goes on.

For instance, there's almost as many fans of Star Wars who have come into the franchise thanks to the prequels and the Clone Wars series, instead of the original trilogy. The prequels and Clone Wars series were never meant as an "entry point" into Star Wars, but it became that way due to the continued popularity and presence within pop culture. There are a lot of people who know Anakin first, and Vader second instead of the other way around, and it still allows people to get into the original trilogy and love that for what it is.

The Remake is functioning in that respect. People aren't that plused about having this being not a complete 1:1 entry or fully fleshed out explanation of what is present. That's the appeal, and they enjoy the ride for the entertainment and engrossment it gives. That's enough to be a functional entry point that will allow the experience to anchor itself into their consciousness.

Call me cynical, but I don't know how you can see this kind of thing isn't motivated by wanting to create buzz on social media. Without even touching how stupid the execution was, that type of authorial intent is so... corporate. Which is fundamentally at odds with what makes the FF7 the story one worth retelling :/ Obviously, the elements of the story (as Ite laid out so eloquently) are ones that the creators deem as either less important, or not interesting enough of a topic to re-explore as the focus. That is absolutely wild to me.

It's why I am completely opposed to playing into theory-crafting around this title. I feel that by doing so, I am bending into the corporate side of this game - the side where the whole purpose is to generate perpetual buzz for the next title. With a story like FF7, I am sure all of you can understand why I find it all incredibly gross?

That's a statement to it's authenticity and genuine intention to tell a story in a straightforward creative way.

So there's a glaring counterpoint to that. If they really wanted to take the corporate, safer option to maximize profits and exert the least amount of effort to manipulate the audience for cash, they could have simply did the same thing twice, pull out the old script, dust it off, touch it up, call it a day, and rake in the money.

This entire Remake saga is an explicitly extra and painstakingly convoluted project that requires more genuine creative energy, development and effort than a simple cash-in remake built to simply manipulate and create demand for "product." That is antithetical to any sort of simple merchandising and commercialized affair. You could argue that certain Compilation entries fall under that definition (DC, BC, DC Lost Episode, etc), but going this far to craft, retool and capture the minutiae storyline details of their fantasy world, go above and beyond what came before in terms of scope, especially when the easier option would be the most profitable, just doesn't fit that definition. Especially in terms of business/profit effort to outcomes. This is not simply a corporate cash in. That would be something like a simple re-release or retelling that goes 1:1, is episodic and changes next to nothing. They did something dramatically wild which they've wanted to do in a passionate way. This is wildly risky, in terms of branding. They're re-writing their own hot franchise, which could have failed and landed horribly wrong. It didn't, and that's why it's still able to continue. This was not a safe branding bet for the corporate side of Square at all. Independent of the Remake's quality or overall future success, this all clearly is not something that is a result of trying to be more corporately safe. They put the brand on the line.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Because a lot of what will make or break this ending is dependent on what happens in the future. Even if it’s a standalone game, it’s still an episodic story.

This isn't quite the case. I've been playing an episodic story for the last... 5-6 years by now (FFXIV). And there's been some bad endings/conclusions that were the set-up for some fantastic stories, but those endings still feel bad to watch when I'm at that point in the story. On the flip-side, there's some fantastic endings/conclusions that were the set-up for some mediocre stories.

Heck, I went into Shadowbringers very much not liking where the story was going all because of how the patch immediately before it went. And Shadowbringers has some of the best storytelling from the FF franchise in the last decade. I still really don't like the way the last expansion ended to set Shadowbringers up because it doesn't make character development sense in my mind for various reasons.

On the flip side, the ending of Heavensward leading into Stormblood was just about perfect... only Stormblood didn't capitalize on it as well as it could have. But the final patch of Heaveansward has one of the best conclusions and set-ups in the game.

If an ending has a feeling of "what the heck happened there?" at the end of it, what comes after doesn't magically make that ending disappear. Make it not as bad, maybe. But it doesn't fix how it was executed and what the first impressions of it was. And first impressions are worth a lot in video games when it comes to deciding how a player feels about something.

Going into the next installment expecting to be disappointed because of how the last installment ended really sucks. It feels a lot like you're setting yourself up for failure and hoping against hope that the devs actually can pull the next section of the story off. I really hope FF7: Remake Part 2 can do that...

 

[KindOfBlue]

What you described is exactly why I have the attitude that I have though, I’m not strongly against the ending because it’s possible that this turns out well and I genuinely like the possibilities it opens up but I also get why some may be concerned. More than anything, I just need to see where it goes before I can make my final judgement.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

My expectation of Part II is that I'll be thrilled, delighted, surprised, annoyed and disappointed in equal measure.

 

[ForceStealer]

So there's a glaring counterpoint to that. If they really wanted to take the corporate, safer option to maximize profits and exert the least amount of effort to manipulate the audience for cash, they could have simply did the same thing twice, pull out the old script, dust it off, touch it up, call it a day, and rake in the money.

It is true that I just about never assume simple greed on Square's missteps. It's very obvious they enjoy what they're doing and are not Activision or Ubisoft. It's clear an immense amount of care went into the remake. It's why it is as great as it is! But I do think they calculated a way to chase community engagement, which I don't think is the same thing as a lootbox or something. It's not greedy (at least, not in a monetary sense), but it isn't for the benefit of the story, either.

Honestly, does this even exist :/

I was assuming 90% wasn't an exact figure either, let's not be pedantic here, lol.

My expectation of Part II is that I'll be thrilled, delighted, surprised, annoyed and disappointed in equal measure.

Which I suppose is what I expected for Part 1. But for so much of part 1 it emphatically defied that expectation. I was thrilled, delighted and pleasantly surprised far more than anything else. Then it really yanked the other way almost all at once.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It is true that I just about never assume simple greed on Square's missteps. It's very obvious they enjoy what they're doing and are not Activision or Ubisoft. It's clear an immense amount of care went into the remake. It's why it is as great as it is! But I do think they calculated a way to chase community engagement, which I don't think is the same thing as a lootbox or something. It's not greedy (at least, not in a monetary sense), but it isn't for the benefit of the story, either.

That just simply flows from a basic understanding of sequential releasing and the fact that this is being broken up into multiple games. The fact it's going to be a multi-game saga meant it was always going to be this way in terms of buzz, regardless of if it were a complete retelling of FFVII without any extra stuff, or what we got now. People were going to be talking because there would be a gap between each entry and they would clearly leave each entry at a cliffhanger for maximum impact.

I don't think it goes any further than that. They've done it before, after all.

 

[ForceStealer]

People were going to be talking because there would be a gap between each entry

This is what I'm saying The game gave you a natural cliffhanger. Or unfinished highway hanger, as it were, they didn't have to go all 2001 at the end to ensure that

 

[KindOfBlue]

I guess my enjoyment of part 1 heavily outweighs most of my concerns for the future because I didn’t see the ending as so much of a departure from what the creators already established themselves that won’t eventually be resolved...your mileage may vary, as they say, but knowing it was made by the OG creators and OG fans gives me a great deal of confidence

 

[ForceStealer]

My enjoyment of part 1 heavily outweighs the dumb stuff at the end when it comes to having enjoyed Part 1. The game is my personal game of the year by a country mile and I highly doubt anything will even challenge it. The negative effects are almost entirely on my concern for the future.

Because now, Hearts have been broken. They've played the card that shit is different now. Because that card was the surprise for the end of Part 1, 90% of part 1 is a pretty faithful exploration of events. Now that's all out the window. So even from the word go on Part 2, everything's different.

 

[Odysseus]

I guess my enjoyment of part 1 heavily outweighs most of my concerns for the future because I didn’t see the ending as so much of a departure from what the creators already established themselves that won’t eventually be resolved...your mileage may vary, as they say, but knowing it was made by the OG creators and OG fans gives me a great deal of confidence

My thought is that, despite all the weird stuff, the party is ostensibly still in the exact same situation they were originally. Sephiroth is out there, he's up to no good, and we have to stop him to save the world. Nothing has really changed that drastically despite everything, hell, now Barret has a better reason to trust cloud since he's seen the threat firsthand. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm not that worried.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth(s) is/are out there, he/they are up to no good, and we have to stop him/them to save the world. Nothing has really changed that drastically despite everything....

Fixed that for ya

Sorry, but that was just too easy. I saw the opening...

 

[KindOfBlue]

everything's different.

I think most of this is because they want the audience to think Aerith might survive honestly, but also to allow the creators the liberty to make changes whererever they want instead of being beholden to the limits of the OG. Question is, how far will they go? I still think the destination will be the same, albeit with many detours. Of course, I could be 100% wrong but we’ll see!

 

[ForceStealer]

My thought is that, despite all the weird stuff, the party is ostensibly still in the exact same situation they were originally. Sephiroth is out there, he's up to no good, and we have to stop him to save the world.

That's almost true. Except Zack's alive (which is just shorthand for saying we're dealing with multiple timeline shenanigans). And there are at least two Sephiroths around, one of which knows exactly what happened originally. And so it is in his interest to continue intervening. Unless the Whispers were his only way back and destroying them was his one hail mary and he cannot intervene further. I don't know why that would be the case, but I'd be frickin thrilled if so.

and lol Mako beat me to it

I think most of this is because they want the audience to think Aerith might survive honestly

Yes, and that's why I say these things were not done in service to a story. It's purely to play with the audience, not some difference in vision. Like Ite said when this all started, either things all happen the same, which would be great, but yeah, it would then make us ask what hte point of all this chicanery was. Or things don't happen the same at all and we're left wondering why they even made a remake.
I do think the former is more likely, but...why then

 

[Stiggie]

Just out of curiosity, did you all even want a remake? I didn't, so the only

is no remake at all as far as I'm concerned. Graphics aside the original holds up just fine, all I would want is a new English localization so the plot is more comprehensible. That's all the new FFVII that was ever necessary, but so many people wanted so much more.

For old fans who don't like the remake, I'm not just going to say "why do you even care if the remake is weird when the original still exists." Ultimately more FFVII discourse than not is going to surround the remake from now on, so that'll unavoidably impact you regardless. I guess I'm wondering, is that really all that concerns you though? That the conversation will be inevitably altered the more the Remake drifts from the original? Is there some fear of getting left behind in a sea of new discussion? I dunno, maybe I'm small-minded, but that's the only reason I can think of.

The way I see it, if it was just going to be the same story with prettier visuals they should have done an OOT 3D and just updated the graphics while mostly leaving everything else alone. That'd be cheap, I think most people would be happy with it, and that's the treatment other FF games have gotten. However, that wouldn't live up to the expectations people have had for the past decade+ about what a "Final Fantasy VII" remake would be like.

Really, you've all been fucked from the day that that scummy PS3 demo got shown off. That put the image of AAA fully realized FFVII in peoples heads. If it was gonna be the same plot Square would have just done a remaster like I mentioned above, but if they're gonna go all out things have to be different. There's no way they could justify it otherwise. Not for how many games it's gonna take, not for how much money they're dumping into it. You should know that, you're all familiar with these people at this point, you know they're a bunch of weirdos with weird ideas who would definitely be unsatisfied with just retreading old ground just because you all don't want change. The "not specifically you guys in this thread but a more generalized 'you' refering to the larger FFVII community" dug this hole for yourselves inch by inch with every FFVII REMAKE rumor and wishlist, every time you asked the developers if they'd do it, every time you showed how much interest there was for it, every time square enix couldn't escape the shadow of a decades old PS1 game.

So I'll say again, did you all even want a remake? Because you got a fucking "REMAKE," built from the ground up as if it were a new game with a new plot and a whole load of new things to worry about, and you should have know it wouldn't be any other way.

"The promise has been made" mother fuckers.

*mic drop*

POTATO OUT!

Yeah, I am sorry but posts like this really make me mad, they feel SOOO intellectually dishonest to me. I've heard them too many times to count now and it really feels like people are being willfully obtuse.

Especially this part:

"So I'll say again, did you all even want a remake? Because you got a fucking "REMAKE,""

Are we really doing this? Are we really pretending that it's ok to lie to your fans if it's technically not a lie? They willfully deceived us. I don't care about semantics or puns, and the fact that people are defending this based on those trivialities really sickens me.
They KNEW people wanted a remake in the form of "We want FFVII again, but now updated to how it WOULD be if it were made in 2015". They purposefully led us to believe that THAT is what they were making, and when they named it "remake" they weren't thinking "well, this should make it clear that this is a sequel that happens to be called "remake" ".

If you are ok with being lied to, ok, that's fine for you, but don't pretend that we got the product that we thought we were getting. This is the purest form of lawyer speak and it should be beneath us.

Personally, I never really actively wanted a remake until SE starting getting me in the mood for one, I was actually more hyped about FFXV, about the idea of a good NEW mainline FF game. But I was led to believe that I was getting a remake, and based on that I started getting excited about this possibility of something I never expected I'd ever get. I got back into the game, and was looking forward to seeing it again how I saw it in my fantasies when I was younger. I got excited about the prospect of being able to finally share one of my favorite game stories of all time with my friends and nephew who don't play games that look like that.

"Graphics aside the original holds up just fine,"

According to you, not according to the people that I can't even get to play it. Also, what is it with this "good enough" mentality? It's ridiculous, why do we arbitrarily have this "one and done" mentality when it comes to games? When I draw or make anything, I don't just do it once and however it comes out, that'll be fine for all eternity.
I try to perfect my craft, improve myself, I erase and redraw and eventually try to make the best version of something possible. Out of the thousands of games mankind has created and thrown against the wall, a few masterpieces have emerged. And I want those masterpieces shined and polished to the point where the effect it had on us is felt 100 times over by our descendants.

There is a saying, about reinventing the wheel, but people didn't just invent the wheel and be done with it, it was tweaked and improved time and time again. Why should a story be any different?

"why do you even care if the remake is weird when the original still exists."

Because I can't lie to myself, if the sequel to a movie tells me that everything in the original was just a dream, then I can't unknow that. That is part of me now. Canon matters, otherwise I might as well just sit at home daydreaming. Without canon there are no consequences, there is no tension, there is no meaning, there is nothing, because each willful imagination is as valid as any other. Who cares if anyone dies, or falls in love, or has whatever happen to them in a story? It's all just fake anyway.
Stories are enjoyed through empathy, through suspension of disbelief, and I can't just pick and choose which parts to believe. If Remake undoes the original, the original is DEAD to me.
I've already lost the ability to cry at crisis core since I simply know the ending doesn't happen, if you still can, good for you, but I can't, and I have good reason to be upset about that.

Also, even if I somehow could delude myself into pretending a thing didn't happen, no one else would indulge my fantasy. You think I can go and talk to people about FFVII and expect them to pretend things that happened in the remake didn't happen? No, they'll tell me to grow up and accept canon, as I've told Cleriths a thousand times before.


"The way I see it, if it was just going to be the same story with prettier visuals they should have done an OOT 3D and just updated the graphics while mostly leaving everything else alone"

First of all, that IS what people wanted, they just couldn't do that because gaming in 2020 is fundamentally different than in 1997. People keep pretending it's just a graphics update, it's not, it's an entirely different medium, as different as mute black and white tv is from modern HD, that's the point.

If in the 2001 version of Lord of the rings Frodo and Sam suddenly climb into a closet to Narnia, I'd be upset, and I don't think people would be telling me "if you just wanted the same story as the book but just with updated graphics, just listen to the audio book".

The remake was the first telling of a classic story in over 20 years. If this were the 10th freaking batman movie or something, then sure, I understand why you'd go wild and not care much about the source material. But that's not the case, it's the first and probably last time this story will be told. And now it's stuck in 1997 gameplay and visuals for all eternity. Had they given us a remake in 2010, and then NOW we were complaining about getting another one, then sure, go wild.

" If it was gonna be the same plot Square would have just done a remaster like I mentioned above, but if they're gonna go all out things have to be different."

Yeah, this is a complete non-sequitur, we all know that there is a difference between a faithful adaptation that simply takes a story, and translates it into another medium, and one that simply does whatever it wants.
No one is defending Dragonball: evolution because "well, they had to change it from the anime". Just like we all know that there is a difference between them translating the Japanese lines to english, trying to capture the spirit as best as possible, and what happened to the translation in the OG.

"you're all familiar with these people at this point, you know they're a bunch of weirdos with weird ideas "

So I should be ok with being lied to because SE is weird?

"did you all even want a remake? Because you got a fucking "REMAKE," built from the ground up as if it were a new game with a new plot"

I wanted THREE things, they're all separate issues, so don't conflate them by pretending they're the same issue.

1: To not feel lied to, I don't care how good you think the remake is, or how much you think it technically counts as a remake as long as you understand that "remake" is a pun. When I spent 300 euros to buy a product, I wanted that product to reflect what I believed I'd get. The entire game could have been a 20 minute long cutscene with ZERO gameplay but just a video collage of all the trailers, and although that would technically mean I got everything the trailers promised me.....it would not be ok. IF they wanted to make a sequel, I wanted to KNOW that when I saved up for months for this "remake".

2: For whatever they made to respect and fit with the themes, lessons, and overall soul of the original game. For them not to retroactively change what makes FFVII special.

3: And yes, I HOPED for a game that would fit the concept of "what FFVII would be if it had been made in 2020". So a faithful remake, changing what NEEDS to be changed for the new medium, adding things where needed that accentuate instead of conflict with the original (like Jessies house). And that I could present as the definitive version of FFVII. I wanted above all else, that after this game was out, I would never have to say "yeah, you kind need to play this 1997 game in order to really get what's happening here".
The remake is literally the opposite.

Those thing you apparently think I SHOULD want, are what I WOULD have wanted if someone had told me "we're going to make a SEQUAL to FFVII", but I wasn't told that.

Anyway, Tl ;Dr I can't stand this implication that there is something wrong or useless about wanting to see something remade faithfully with modern technology, it's patently absurd. This is proven by the fact that people DO want it, if people want something, it's no good telling them they shouldn't, if they want something because it gives them pleasure, that's good enough, we don't have to justify why we find it pleasurable.
I've also not seen a single person who was playing through the faithful parts who went "well, this is dull, it's just exactly what I experienced already as a child only now with actual realistic graphics, tears, emotions, etc, could have just played the OG YAWN".


If you want to have a discussion about whether or not an actual remake would have been better or worse than a sequel pun remake, that's fine, but don't tell me I have no cause to be upset. My feelings as as valid as anyone elses.

 

[Odysseus]

That's almost true. Except Zack's alive (which is just shorthand for saying we're dealing with multiple timeline shenanigans). And there are at least two Sephiroths around, one of which knows exactly what happened originally. And so it is in his interest to continue intervening. Unless the Whispers were his only way back and destroying them was his one hail mary and he cannot intervene further. I don't know why that would be the case, but I'd be frickin thrilled if so.

and lol Mako beat me to it



Yes, and that's why I say these things were not done in service to a story. It's purely to play with the audience, not some difference in vision. Like Ite said when this all started, either things all happen the same, which would be great, but yeah, it would then make us ask what hte point of all this chicanery was. Or things don't happen the same at all and we're left wondering why they even made a remake.
I do think the former is more likely, but...why then

Yeah I'm gonna refrain from judgement on Zack until I know what the fuck that's about.

2 Sephiroth 2 Furious I'm actually pretty excited to learn more about.

 

[looneymoon]

Re: a few posts lol

I doubt they want to see themselves as corporately motivated, but... there is no getting around that they literally represent a billion dollar corporation. It's not antithetical to bring up it's a glaring omission of this remake is decidedly not self-reflexive on. I doubt they lack that kind of self awareness. Maybe they honestly thought they were taking a risk on a game that would bomb fantastically, but I'm not convinced. Frankly, neither of us can know for sure what they think about the corporate end of things, because it's something that isn't addressed in-text, or in the meta-text. They seem to be very enraptured with meta-textual elements, yet none of that is self-reflective of the issues that are actually pertinent to the story's conflict. Those conflicts are swept to the side in favour of contemplating their own "destiny" of remaking this game. It isn't an inherently bad addition by any means, but it is an unwelcome when it actively undermines everything else.

This is a gross omission with the Remake project, and why I cannot give it the favourable reading of "not something that is a result of trying to be more corporately safe... [and] put the brand on the line." This is the exact type of buzz creation that's worked for Kingdom Hearts, an actual fucking Disney property, for over a decade.

Does anyone honestly feel that creators contemplating their "destiny" to make this game is a more favourable point to the story than say... what their stance is on corporate greed, or environmental destruction? Do you honestly think that would be somehow the "more safe" route given the current state of the world? Maybe "Destiny" is what FF7 now means to them, and I can understand that. However, if that's the case, and the execution of that intent comes at the expense of everything else... then you can't blame people for feeling they're engaging with something seriously out-of-touch. If that has become "the thing" that makes the story important for them to re-tell, then we as fans have every right to criticize them for losing sight of more important themes.

There's obviously genuine artistry involved in corporate franchises. Hell, I technically work for one That doesn't write-off when those aspects are dampened by that corporatism. Especially for a story like this.

I'm just gonna quote myself. Obviously FF7 was never as punk rock as it seemed to me when I was 9, but if the creators were going to do this, I really wish they didn't use this story as their vehicle to do so.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't think they've omitted the corporate greed or environmental aspect though. If anything, they've leaned into it. There's now a very clear clash of values regarding people who simply don't care about the consequence of mako use, versus those who feel it's an immediate threat to their existence, especially as an underclass.

Shinra now isn't just ambivalent, ignorant or distracted from the risk to the planet. They're aware of it. In fact, they're so aware of it, they've tied the Space Program (which originally was an independent scientific exploratory department) to finding more mako once the planet inevitably exhausts its own. They simply don't care and reflect the reality of I guess, Climate Denial. I don't think any of those real world messages have been lost. If anything they've been refitted to match the time period we're in now.

If we never see that angle of the plot meaningfully engaged with again in subsequent parts, I'd agree that it was sacrificed and a diminishment of the overall story but so far that's been kept true. I don't think they're trying to shy away from that theme.

 

[Saven]

My thought is that, despite all the weird stuff, the party is ostensibly still in the exact same situation they were originally. Sephiroth is out there, he's up to no good, and we have to stop him to save the world. Nothing has really changed that drastically despite everything, hell, now Barret has a better reason to trust cloud since he's seen the threat firsthand. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm not that worried.

This. Nothing was really explained at all and it didn't significantly impact the overall flow of how the rest of the story is going to go yet. Biggs survives somehow but was it Jessie, or was it the Sephiroth clone living next door to Cloud flying him away from the plate falling, no one knows yet. Zack does indeed survive where he dies originally, but is he even still alive? For all we know, he could've died some other way before the events of FFVIIR even started (which I hope, because I hated how both FFVII and especially how Crisis Core handled his death). We still don't even know the true purpose behind the Whispers yet. It was clearly meant to draw up speculation and excitement for what Part 2 will bring.

I'm still convinced the reason why they were even included in the first place was because SE was stumped on how to create an epic JRPG final boss on an expressway so early into the game.

 

[Odysseus]

I can't stand this implication that there is something wrong or useless about wanting to see something remade faithfully with modern technology, it's patently absurd. This is proven by the fact that people DO want it, if people want something, it's no good telling them they shouldn't, if they want something because it gives them pleasure, that's good enough, we don't have to justify why we find it pleasurable.

I don't have time for your full post at the moment, but I'll address this. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a faithful remake, it wasn't my 3 AM brain's intention to say that. I just really don't think square would want to make it, as is shown by them doing something different. They don't owe us anything, we got the game they made in 1997 already, if making ff7 again mean changing things then I think they should do it. They're creatives, they want creative fulfillment, which retreading old ground won't provide them. Just as you don't need to justify why you find a faithful remake pleasurable, they don't need to justify why they find making something different pleasurable. That's how it is.

 

[Stiggie]

I don't have time for your full post at the moment, but I'll address this. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a faithful remake, it wasn't my 3 AM brain's intention to say that. I just really don't think square would want to make it, as is shown by them doing something different. They don't owe us anything, we got the game they made in 1997 already, if making ff7 again mean changing things then I think they should do it. They're creatives, they want creative fulfillment, which retreading old ground won't provide them. Just as you don't need to justify why you find a faithful remake pleasurable, they don't need to justify why they find making something different pleasurable. That's how it is.

They owe us the truth, and as a common courtesy, they SHOULD respect the source material. Do they have to? No. I also don't HAVE to be faithful to my girlfriend, but I am, because I take the feelings of other people into consideration when deciding whether or not I'll just do whatever I feel like.

And just like I can criticize a bad game, even if there are no rules saying you're not allowed to make a bad game, I can also criticize the decisions SE made with FFVII, even if it was their decision to make. They're separate issues. No one is saying that not being faithful to the original is a crime or anything (false marketing is though), just that WE think it sucks.

 

[Makoeyes987]

... I don't know if I'd equate the implicit/explicit oath of monogamy associated with a relationship, to the adaption of a fantasy video game of my liking.

If that were the case, we shouldn't just be getting the game we want, we deserve some of the profits as well. This is a relationship where assets would be shared, after all.

 

[ForceStealer]

I don't personally subscribe to the DECEIT!!! angle, just like I never cared about the lack of a subtitle on Remake. That comes back to my experience with the remake being about me, and no one else. I know it's multiple parts, so I don't need the front of the box to tell me so. If someone else didn't know, that's a drag, but that's not my problem and doesn't have anything to do with my enjoyment of the game.
I also don't think it was in anyway false advertising in a legal sense. It would have been courteous of them to allow fans to set their expectations appropriately, though.

I do agree that saying to someone that didn't like the ending that they were wrong to desire a faithful remake because Square was never going to do that because they didn't is...tautological and pointless. Obviously the game exists as it does, only the truly fringe nutters on twitter would be telling square to change it. We're just saying that what they did (in this specific instance) was dumb. (actually, I'm being hyperbolic here to end with aplomb. But we're not even saying that, we're lamenting that it not only wasn't what it could have been. But it wasn't what it was SO CLOSE to being, hahaha)

 

[looneymoon]

Obviously the game exists as it does, only the truly fringe nutters on twitter would be telling square to change it. We're just saying that what they did (in this specific instance) was dumb. (actually, I'm being hyperbolic here to end with aplomb. But we're not even saying that, we're lamenting that it not only wasn't what it could have been. But it wasn't what it was SO CLOSE to being, hahaha)

Hey, regardless of everything, I am proud of everyone here because at least we're not The Last of Us fandom

 

[Odysseus]

I do agree that saying to someone that didn't like the ending that they were wrong to desire a faithful remake because Square was never going to do that because they didn't is...tautological and pointless

I must just be a shit writer. Jeez. You can be mad you didn't get the game you wanted, you can hate the ending, you can want that faithful remake. That's not wrong at all. I just don't think that was ever realistically going to happen, and (I'm gonna sound way too self important when I say this fuck) I think you need to accept that.