SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ForceStealer]

Now this, I agree with lol.

Spoiler

But clearly it was unrealistic to expect anything better from his voice because they only ever would have given him this voice since this is the voice they wanted to give him, right?

But really it was the exact scene verbatim from Crisis Core. Why not just lift the audio from there? If you have to recast him later, fine, but at least it wouldn't have been yet another distraction on the ending scene of this game.

To generalize a bit, there are people who are happy they're getting a remake-sequel and actively want things to be different vs. people who see "defying fate" as a red herring and think things will stay largely the same even if they occur differently vs. people who aren't happy with the remake-sequel but also won't be happy if things stay largely the same because what was the point of the Whispers in the first place then?

That about sums it up, lol. Put me solidly in the camp that the more the Whispers feel like a useless diversion, the better. But that would of course continue to make the point ever stronger that the end of part 1 never needed to be there.

 

[Odysseus]

But clearly it was unrealistic to expect anything better from his voice because they only ever would have given him this voice since this is the voice they wanted to give him, right?

Boy oh boy, you did not get what I was saying at allll. In this case it was probably some contract issue though, which is why they couldn't reuse audio and why everyone else got recast. New Zack will probably be better when he has more to work with (I hope.)

 

[Cat on Mars]

To generalize a bit, there are people who are happy they're getting a remake-sequel and actively want things to be different vs. people who see "defying fate" as a red herring and think things will stay largely the same even if they occur differently vs. people who aren't happy with the remake-sequel but also won't be happy if things stay largely the same because what was the point of the Whispers in the first place then?

We have a new LTD!
...yay?

 

[ForceStealer]

It sounds like they just recast everyone because they wanted to. Obviously that could just be dressing up a contract dispute as "what we intended all along," but it seems unlikely that they would have had a dispute with EVERYONE. Rather they didn't want to just keep one person the same. But while everyone else was either equal or an improvement, the very last new voice we hear is by far the worst one, lol. And it's exacerbated by being a scene that's already been voice acted so everyone had the exact same voice in our heads for it.

 

[looneymoon]

I think there was some speculation that the recording for this game coincided with some sort of voice-actor strike? Dunno if that's been debunked though.

 

[Ite]

(ಥ﹏ಥ)
You are dead to me now.

I mean this as writing advice and a real life protip: if you’re gonna stab someone, you better mean it.

 

[ForceStealer]

I think there was some speculation that the recording for this game coincided with some sort of voice-actor strike? Dunno if that's been debunked though.

There was one a bit ago, I know it's why Life Is Strange voices changed. But are all the new people in the Remake not part of the guild? I know there are a lot of newbies, but surely Gideon Emery is part of it. And he and Lindbeck were there from the beginning. So I dunno.
Personally I got the feeling that someone at Square just felt the way about the voice cast that a lot of people here do and got them to overhaul it, lol. As someone who generally liked the old voices, I think they mostly succeeded very well here. Sephiroth I'm still unsure about, and Zack is definitely a downgrade. Everyone else gets two thumbs up or that I clearly didn't feel strongly enough about to notice.

I mean this as writing advice and a real life protip: if you’re gonna stab someone, you better mean it.

https://comb.io/QAm11C

 

[Makoeyes987]

The amount of damage to the story that would be done by killing Barret off would make the inclusion of fantastical ghosts of the future seem nonexistent in comparison.

I don't think that's even a controversial assessment, lol

"Death is meaningless" versus a Barret-less story I don't feel is an apt comparison or fair one. By that implication, we should just reduce FFVII to a another realistic gritty story in world with no magic, and simply sacrifice one of the most improved and interesting characters we've gotten out of this Remake. Why? Because death? The death isn't the issue here, it's what the story meant to tell with why those Arbiters exist. Death can easily still hold meaning because not every moment in the world of FFVII is going to play out under the watchful eye of their interference/influence. Especially now that they've seemingly have been removed from the world altogether.

I mean, that's what we'll inevitably be facing when we go to the Forgotten Capital and beyond. They're not there to protect anyone anymore.

 

[ForceStealer]

I think Ite's point is more that they shouldn't have stabbed Barret at all for all those reasons you just stated.

 

[Makoeyes987]

But that's what I mean when I cite the scene as a showcase of what those Arbiters exist to do, and what they won't be around to do, when they're gone.

Death being "cheated" in FFVII has always been possible if one has the right power behind them. We've seen it done by Sephiroth and Cloud before in FFVII proper. It's extremely rare but not impossible, like say, real life. I don't think Barret's immediate healing from impalement from Sephiroth somehow destroys the credibility of fatal wounds in FFVII. No more than Cloud getting stabbed in the chest by Sephiroth before he yeeted him into a mako pit did before. The only difference here is instead of being immediately healed by Shinra scientists with magic, Barret was healed by planetary ghosts with magic.

No one would ever be able to survive impalement through the chest period due to bloodloss, but we've gone past that point long, long ago.

 

[ForceStealer]

I agree, and I'm not quite as hung up on the Barret thing as Ite is, but I do agree that it weakened an element of your story/world for not much reason. There are plenty of other ways to definitively show what the whispers are there to do without something that at best feels like a cheap scare and at worst weakens the whole game world. Maybe have Sephiroth go for Barret first and a whisper makes it so that he hits President Shinra instead, ensuring that the "right" person dies.

 

[Ite]

I think Ite's point is more that they shouldn't have stabbed Barret at all for all those reasons you just stated.

Yep.

It’s the same catch 22 with the whispers: they shouldnt’a done it, but now that they have, what’s the best version of damage control? Should they follow through on the stab and let him die to preserve the theme of life in the way the OG expressed it, or throw theme out the window because we don’t want to lose a beloved character? I would have preferred if they hadn’t stabbed him to begin with, but since they did, I think they took the wrong road.

Funnily, I think they should do the opposite with the whispers. Should they follow through on the “Unknown Journey” because they’ve made the decision to have the characters rough up time and space, or should they ease onto the gas pedal and deliver on the promise of the classic story presented in a modern medium? I’m firmly in the “Oops just kidding, ignore all that” camp because while they’ve already killed 7R for me at least I can get some gifs out of it if they stop fucking around.

 

[Tetsujin]

It sounds like they just recast everyone because they wanted to. Obviously that could just be dressing up a contract dispute as "what we intended all along," but it seems unlikely that they would have had a dispute with EVERYONE.

Especially seeing as how Compilation voice actors are actually still involved, just in minor roles.

 

[Makoeyes987]

But we've already had people surviving impalement thanks to immediately being healed afterwards.

We've not seen anyone just simply die from a sword to the chest. Whether it be from magical time-space ghosts, or being thrown in a tube with magic fluid from the planet inside, people can seemingly survive the most fatal of injuries if given immediate magic first aid.

... Unless they're a woman kneeling on an alter in prayer. Then you're just fucked. Sorry. No hope.

 

[Ite]

... Unless they're a woman kneeling on an alter in prayer. Then you're just fucked. Sorry. No hope.

We’ll see about that.

 

[ForceStealer]

I’m firmly in the “Oops just kidding, ignore all that” camp because while they’ve already killed 7R for me at least I can get some gifs out of it if they stop fucking around.

lol, you always take the pessimism just a step further than I. But the opportunity is totally there for them to do so. After all, we've ostensibly killed them all. If, like I suggested above, the mechanism of the Arbiters of Fate was future!Sephiroth's Hail Mary. Somehow offered him a route to the past, but also prevented him from changing it. Therefore his only hope was to go back and convince Cloud to kill them. Thus severing his connection to the past but also allowing for just a chance that things might go his way this time.
If that's what happens, I'll be right as rain. But we know that's not what's happening, lol. Future!Sephiroth is going to continue to poke around and intervene when convenient for a cliffhanger, instead of doing what he would actually do if he were smart and could access the past. Just get the Black Materia to his past self and say "Cast it now."

Especially seeing as how Compilation voice actors are actually still involved, just in minor roles.

I almost said that, but I wasn't certain and was too cba to check, lol.

 

[minami758]

Full disclosure, I'm in the camp that thinks the "defying fate" thing is a red herring for the most part and that the Whispers subplot is just part of an elaborate mousetrap. (Jury's still out on whether I actually vibe with this idea or not, but it's the camp I'm in right now. Who knows where I'll be in a few months.)

So if I could posit a theme that might be compelling — that even after believing they've defeated the Whispers, the characters cannot help but do things that lead to the tentpole events of the OG FF7. Because while they can defy fate, perhaps they can't defy themselves. Because that's just who they are as people. And that maybe fate can actually be "remade," but not without more loss/sacrifice along the way.

Some might find it too hopeless or dark in light of the possibility that fate can be changed, but finding hope in the face of hopelessness is a theme already present in the OG, and would also work within the confines of these "defying fate" shenanigans.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If, like I suggested above, the mechanism of the Arbiters of Fate was future!Sephiroth's Hail Mary. Somehow offered him a route to the past, but also prevented him from changing it. Therefore his only hope was to go back and convince Cloud to kill them. Thus severing his connection to the past but also allowing for just a chance that things might go his way this time.
If that's what happens, I'll be right as rain. But we know that's not what's happening, lol. Future!Sephiroth is going to continue to poke around and intervene when convenient for a cliffhanger, instead of doing what he would actually do if he were smart and could access the past. Just get the Black Materia to his past self and say "Cast it now."

That very well could be a possibility. Aside from the number of Sephiroths, the function and outcome for the world and the narrative itself, would essentially be the same. It would be the journey and implementation of the game that would be different. That's an example of how the story of the Remake playing itself out within FFVII, could still fundamentally leave the core FFVII story to play out the same.

 

[Rydeen]

Calling it now, the very last boss of the last game is Nomura himself

You mean we finally get to kick his ass?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Does the Remake have any coherent themes, over and above the ones that came from the OG?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think it's a word that starts with "D" and ends in "iny"

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I said coherent themes.

Destiny is just a great big amorphously blobby kind of meaningless concept

 

[looneymoon]

a theme can't be one word

 

[Makoeyes987]

Pfft, well I mean. Destiny is a pretty coherent theme. I think your real question is if it should be within FFVII at all.

I mean you can argue it's place, but it is coherent. The characters are faced with the question of what's out there waiting for them to face in terms of their future while Sephiroth is seemingly pulling their strings and aware of events beyond anyone's cognizance.

Aerith is on the same axis, except at the opposite end, and as a benevolent force. Yet there's something that leaves her uneasy about said future.

Everyone here is, in essence, trying to break out of the role and future that lies in front of them, which surprisingly includes Sephiroth himself.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think we had this discussion before. Can we change our fate? No, we can't. Whatever happens to you, that's your fate. Maybe in video games and movies where time loops exist, people can go back and make things happen differently, but that's just trite wish fulfillment. In real life, there are no time loops and no do-overs.